what is your ax really worth atmo??

[atmo]

to parallel pal Pete-issimo's thread, check this out:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/07/opinion/07marchese.html?_r=1&oref=slogin



alas, "The real secret...is that there was no secret" atmo.

[Len J]

to parallel pal Pete-issimo's thread, check this out:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/07/opinion/07marchese.html?_r=1&oref=slogin



alas, "The real secret...is that there was no secret" atmo.

thanks......It really does speak to our seemingly innate want for "specialness".

Where does true dicernment end and our herd instinct begin?

Len

[atmo]

thanks......It really does speak to our seemingly innate want for "specialness".

Where does true dicernment end and our herd instinct begin?

Len
atmo there's no real need or meaning to obsessing
about it. we are what we are, and herding shouldn't
be seen as the negative here. if you like something
and it gives you pleasure, that is the gift.

ps i don't mean obsessing in a negative way.

[Len J]

atmo there's no real need or meaning to obsessing
about it. we are what we are, and herding shouldn't
be seen as the negative here. if you like something
and it gives you pleasure, that is the gift.

ps i don't mean obsessing in a negative way.

I was just reflecting in the mirror you held up.

It's all good

Len

[Erik.Lazdins]

I saw this article last week and I am confident we shall see more. Though they haven't climbed to this level* yet guitars, saxophones, trumpets and many other musical instruments are particularly sought after. I would expect instruments to keep this status as the most sought after as the line between pursuing musical excellence and pursuing instrumental excellence is a blurred line. This of course is my opinion.

These older instruments help the Monettes earn a living.



level* - We have seen nothing yet with regard to pricing.

[PBWrench]

Priceless.

[atmo]

<snipped> the line between pursuing musical excellence and pursuing instrumental excellence is a blurred line. This of course is my opinion.

.
i share that opinion.
it's analogous to the line between riding and what you ride atmo.

speaking of which - i'm goin' riding.

[dbrk]

http://www.amazon.com/Violin-Maker-Centuries-Old-Tradition-Brooklyn/dp/0060012676/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-0934982-0555355?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175959220&sr=1-1

Worth the read.

dbrk

[atmo]

http://www.amazon.com/Violin-Maker-Centuries-Old-Tradition-Brooklyn/dp/0060012676/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-0934982-0555355?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175959220&sr=1-1

Worth the read.

dbrk
cool -
he penned the op-ed piece atmo.

[big shanty]

I forwarded to this article to my friend up the street, who makes violas. Here is his response:

"Noah,

Yeah, saw it. I've never met Sam Zygm..., but he's been a regular
contributor to a violin makers' listserv (started in Seattle 13 yrs
ago, no less, (but not by me)). Until recently, he made _identical_-
looking copies of famous old Cremonese instruments for hi-end players
who wanted to put their /real/ Stradivari and Guarneri into vaults
for safe-keeping. A very talented guy...his copies were correct
even down to individual scratches/wear spots...it's really hard to
do this well, and not have it look phoney. He's a real artist!

OTOH, I consider this a waste of time, and counterproductive to the
trade,...,but Sam went with it....all the way to the bank, he gets _phenomenal_
prices for his creations. He's also a great guy, from
what I hear, so I bear no personal grudges. Many violin buyers "play
with their eyes", and a nicely antiqued instrument will always get
the sale over one that's not.

Recently, I believe Sam has turned to making 'real' new instruments,
w/o all the distressing/antiquing flim-flam. With his rep, I'll bet
these are selling like hotcakes, too.

Onward and upward, Bill

PS: Thanks for that bit about 3Renshos and Yamaguchi...I didn't know
the connection.

PPS: I'm going to watch the Tour of Flanders Sunday afternoon...the
VS (aka OLN) coverage is only an hr (!), and starts at 4PM...care to join me?
I'll start watching about 4:30 on our DVR, so I can skip the ads...
I figure the entire coverage should be less than 40min. Let me know
if you'll be stopping by...I'll buy an extra bottle of some outrageous
Belgian brew for the occasion."

[J.Greene]

Belgiun brew????? What's the address, sounds like a great time.

JG

[catulle]

Along the watchtower...

[djg]

I dunno what they're worth. I haven't been looking at guitar prices much these past couple of years.

I guess the Santa Cruz OM might be a few grand; not sure about the Contreras II. Just a few hundred, I reckon for the epiphone sheraton electric. That's it. Gave away the old Martin to a deserving soul about five years ago.

No violins and nothing in the millions. Frankly, I probably play violin about as well as Perlman plays football, so it's just as well.

[Too Tall]

(enter Puck) I won't go into details...since I was only a med size Gnome I played Bassoon. I went thru several "starter" instruments found and sold to me by my teachers / master based on ability...all fine instruments...than one day he produces my next instrument...I was a little taken back because this was a student model of a popular instrument. He loaned me a mouth piece worth almost as much as the bassoon and wow what a sound :) It took a few yrs. to add a few extra keys...perfect some tuning holes and add rollers to some keys and bingo bango for about 1/3 the price of a the well known "best of breed" I had a real pro. instrument :) My teacher "got" it. Most of my contemporaries had to have the "brand" name in their lap.

Someday that instrument will adorn the wall of a sandwhich shop.

These things are personal extensions and need to be used or they are no artistic worth. They become dead things.

[rounder]

well...in my stupid opinion...any revered instrument played by someone who is a casual..or not real great musician...may sound good but not great. on the other hand...a halfway decent guitar palyed by anyone who knows how to play...will sound good really good. sorta like bikes.

[julia]

well...in my stupid opinion...any revered instrument played by someone who is a casual..or not real great musician...may sound good but not great. on the other hand...a halfway decent guitar palyed by anyone who knows how to play...will sound good really good. sorta like bikes.

my oldest bro plays classical guitar with great feeling and a fair degree of skill, on an instrument not worth much, but he makes it sound good.

what got him hooked as a kid was a gift from a farm worker of a guitar he had made himself, from an oil can with a stick for a neck and fishing gut for strings. the guy could make that thing sing. . .

[rounder]

other opinion is that the instrument can maybe be had at around 60 percent of retail if you are trying to buy one new
. if you want something to play, instead of just a museum piece, that is probably a reasonable discount to expect when you ****er. it's not like buying a car...you want something you would die for.

[Kevan]

but I sure knew how to fiddle.

[rounder]

that was nice julia.

you don't hafta play with a museum piece. i used to hang out in a place called fells point. went down there one sunday morning with my guitar and a bottle of wine (not sure why). anyway...all these folks showed up...passed the guitar around and everyone there knew and could play a song (undergound talent??). anyway...the one song i liked best was...young love...they say for every boy and girl...there's just one love in this old world and i ......................... something like that.

[rounder]

a lot of money for an axe - i was reading the paper yesterday and there was a story about josh bell. i had never heard of him but (evidently) he is a famous concert violinist. he always plays his strad that he bought for 3.5 mill (didn't say if he bought it on ebay). anyway, they arranged for him to play solo one day at a metro stop in d.c. during rush hour for one hour. he was decked out in blue jeans and had his case open for spare change. most people walked by without paying attention but a few stopped to listen. at the end of one hour, he had collected a little over $39. one girl, who was on her coffee break, said that she didn't want to leave.

[julia]

rounder, nice stories, both. couldn't resist re. the second one. . .

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/j/joni+mitchell/real+good+for+free_20075395.html

[DfCas]

Attic Strads'

I worked in music stores for years and you could see them before the door opened.An older couple from the country,clutching an old violin case to their chest.

While cleaning out the attic,they found this old violin.Inside the body,it says its a strad model or such on a paper printed tag.They now believe themselves to be rich.

Truth is,its a sears or other cheap violin from the 30's and has no value.However,they don't believe you.So,you then refer them to a violin appraiser in New York City.They then are afraid to ship it there because he may keep it.

This happens about twice a year in every music store in America.

[atmo]

Attic Strads'.
no joke -
6-7 years ago there was an antiques roadshow on which the
zealous violin owner was visibly shocked on national tv when
the appraiser told him/her that the fiddle was not produced by
the italian maker fato a mano, and that it meant made by hand
in the native tongue. the owner was sure that the label inside,
fato a mano, was the shop where it came from.

ichie
the R is silent

[Hardlyrob]

Musical instruments are quite peculiar - particularly the ones made from wood. Steinway is rather proud of the variation in their pianos - no two will be the same, and it is difficult to tell how one will play while it is being made. Bach brass instruments are also quite vairable - some great, some not so great - off the same manufacturing line at the same time.

There is a fundamental difference in the types of instruments as well - guitars, pianos, violins, drums all have their own sound, independent of who is producing it. If someone else plays my piano, they may be a much better pianist, but my piano will sound like my piano. This is not the case with many other instruments - trumpets, clarinets, trombones - where the tone produced is dependent on the player. In these cases you sound like you, almost regardless of what instrument you are playing.

With all that said, musicians will also find the right instrument for themselves quite easily. After playing a range of instruments (you could probably do this blind to brand, but that is hard unless the musician is blindfolded), musicians will usually say "that's the one for me" - and there will be different preferences. The challenge is that the musical world - particularly the classical world of big symphonies - is very tradition bound. Bach trumpets are the symphony standard not because they are the best horns for any given player, but because the Bach "sound" - whatever that is - is what is expected in American symphonies. That is probably one of the reasons that many manufacturers have copied the look of Bach trumpets (yamaha, Kanstul, among others). Europe, strangely, seems less bound to history and tradition than the US.

In the end, any ax is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. And it is beyond strange that older instruments - often of inferior design - sell for as much or more than new instruments.

Cheers!

Rob

[DfCas]

The old guy that owned the music store I worked in had a great saying.

The customer asks about used pianos because they don't make the new ones now like the old ones then.

Old guy says: "only 2 things get better with age.Violins and whiskey,and I'm not so sure about the violins".