Dirt road bikes

[big shanty]

There is lots of talk nowadays of "country bikes" and off-pavement riding of one sort or another. I wanted to get your personal, highly-biased thoughts on what constitutes the perfect dirt road bike, based on your experiences. Of course this will depend on terrain and road surface (or lack thereof), the length(s) & style(s) of rides you are partial to.....but I think this information is useful as it relates to the choices you have made as far as component choices, setup...or even frame design (for the framebuilders in our midst). I am excited to hear your thoughts on this subject!

[Ken Robb]

If we are talking about graded dirt roads and light loads my Hampsten Strada Biance by Moots w/YBB rear end and 30-32mm tires is my best. Carrying more stuff(30 or more pounds) then my Rivendell Allrounder with 700x 35-42mm tires is needed to take racks. It's one of my faster paved-road bikes too, usually running 700x25-28 tires.

For rough stuff my Marin Rift Zone FS mtn. bike works fine and I can hang a BIG saddle bag on it (Riv Hoss) too.

My Riv Rambouillet with the same tires as the Hampsten is good too but the YBB takes the edge off the bumps. I can carry up to 30 pounds quite well too.

Ooops--I almost forgot. My 1989 Bridgestone MB-3 with tires form 26x1.5" Avocet Cross tires up to 2.2" mountain bike tires is dandy too. I have a Blackburn Expedition rack on it and can haul quite a load with it as well.

Hmmm, I guess I need to move out of town so I have more dirt roads to ride. :banana:

[Erik.Lazdins]

For dirt trails as 10 year old I would ride my road bike, It had 1.125 tires and it was prior to the age of mountain bikes.

Having ridden 25mm the last couple years I wanted something that would handle off road better. I opted and built up a Bleriot with the Col de la Vie tires at 38 mm. It handles gravel roads, tree roots, dirt, mud, cinder tracks with aplomb. Most of all the bike is stable and a joy to ride over all of this stuff. The tires are quick enough on pavement so I don't feel I'm missing out on my narrow tire bike.

Though I'm sure other tire sizes work well - I'm stoked with the 38mm tires for dirt.

[don'TreadOnMe]

I've had a custom WaltWorks 29'er frame/fork for over 2.5 years now.
Drivetrain changes all the time, but the main constants are the Conti 2000's 700x47's.
Awesome (I try not to use that term often) dirt road ride.

[zeroking17]

Here's a good one for dirt roads and beyond:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=158052&postcount=1

[Too Tall]

My Vanilla long reach brake fendered bike with or without fenders pretty well covers dirt roads to the really wacky stuff at Deerfield Dirt Rando.

What makes a great dirt road bike? For me it is one that is close to my road fit, feels familiar and has geo. to not get twitchy when the road is soft. Handling on gravel and dirt gets better the faster you go. I like some understeering so the back end is where I want it with out having to go to brakes...just thru steering yada yada...very personal.

I do not think of a dirt road bike as something I'd carry more than a modest saddlebags worth of stuff eg for an 8 hr. ride otherwise the bike does not feel like a great road bike made for dirt adventures.

It is NOT NOT NOT a mtn bike and tyres are in the 28 to 32 range.

Just about every good road bike that you'd not think twice about riding 100 miles makes for a nice dirt road bike. Afterall, it was not so long ago that most "road" bikes were designed for and used on every hard surface and some not so hard right? All my road bikes are ridden on some dirt / gravel. The Vanilla is the first I've had designed for the job however and it is a throwback fer sher. Here's to "throwbacks" hip hip hurray :)

[Ginger]

I'm sure geo has something to do with it...but I couldn't tell you what or why...I just know my Bianchi EV2 sucked on dirt, but my Kirk is excellent. :)

I'll echo Too Tall, a good dirt road bike is NOT a mountain bike...yes, if you're very talented you can ride technical trails on a road bike, but why would you want to when a correct tool is available?

I ride my Michelin Carbon 23s on dirt/gravel, and my bike handles just fine, and my cross tires are 30s...but then, I'm not a big rider in many ways. I may try some wider tires this year...just to try them. :) I've done that before, but it's been a while. I've come to the conclusion that if you're riding a well thought out, well balanced bike, tire size is only a comfort consideration...I'm comfy on the 23s...deep sand can be a pain...but deep sand is a pain on the 30s too.

[dbrk]

The perfect country bike can be made...and has been: I would rate my Weigle, Mariposa, or Toei650B all perfect. They all meet the criteria below but they are all a bit vulnerable to travel and thrashing about. And as willing as I am to ride these beautiful bikes on the worst roads in the worst weather, what we REALLY need isn't really available. I want a bike WITHOUT S&S that travels by rolling it into the airport and is handed off without case or bag to the airlines. Yes, this can be done. But it would have to be one you could nick and trash. Such a bike would go like this:
*Lugged steel, LEVEL ONLY top tube, traditional (1" tt, etc.) tubing
*Proper square fork crown steel fork, correct huge clearances/ b/o
*Proper braze ons ALL PUT IN THE PROPER PLACE (the problem with too many "country bike" or light touring designs is that designers appear CLUELESS to me that clearances AND proper chainstay bridge placements make for PROPER fender lines). Pump peg, three bottle bosses.
*Properly PRE-designed for a front carrier like the Nitto M-12
*Silver/Tektro brakes or Mafacs, extra long
*Designed principally for a certain tire like the incoming Riv JBrown or GranBois 32c-ish
*Powdercoated for indestructibleness
*Stop with the LowTrailEvangelism, just a sensible ALLaround design, not too focused on cycloschlepping, please, please
OR
*TIG'd with threadless, all the rest as above, but you can go to an OS tubing but not TOO OS.

Get me this frame and fork for 1K, and NOT closer to 2K or more.

Too many modern bikes with slope and threadless and spacers just look like crap. Too many really truly right bikes---pick your builder---are too valuable to handle really roughly. I want to fly to Europe with a fendered bike that I don't take apart and don't worry about and looks and rides right. How hard is that? Apparently, very.

dbrk

[big shanty]

I have similar feelings on fancy coupled bikes. I don't understand why many people get couplers on bikes that are $7000 on up. As far as I can tell, many get couplers simply because they "cost more", are shiny, and are possible conversation starters. Are you really going to travel with that bike?? Personally, any vacation I took with a $7000+ coupled bike in tow would be spoiled from the get-go on account of the steady hemmhoraging of p1ss into my pants that is a direct consequence of traveling with my beloved bike. I think you're onto something.

[obtuse]

a colnago c50 with the chainstays lengthened 1cm and with a steel steerer tubed fork.

obtuse

[gdw]

An older rigid mountain bike with a steeper head angle and a fast rolling tire, Hutchinson's Python Air Light is ideal for dirt or trail and can easily deal with the rough stuff if required, would be my choice. Not as fast on pavement as a road, touring, 650B, or cross bike but much more versitile. Bridgestone MB's with their 72 degree head angle, low bottom bracket, and rack eyelets are ideal dirt road cruisers.

[Ginger]

You know...I don't understand the comments about how much a bike costs and the issues with traveling with such a bike...maybe it's because I only own one, or maybe its because I see it as a tool...

I love my bike, it's built just for me and it fits and it's wonderful and I love it...but it's a bike, the money is already spent, the bike is insured. Yeah, with my sizing I'd be up S's creek if it got totalled in travel, I'd be totally PO'd if the baggage guys ran over it with a truck. But it is just a bike and I know people who can make me another one. Maybe not that one...but another bike that I'll love almost as much.

Maybe that's why I don't mind riding it on nasty dirt roads either? I don't know.
Chips make me sad...but they happen.

[CNote]

*Proper square fork crown steel fork, correct huge clearances/ b/o


It's too bad there aren't more options available in this regard. A Sachs crown and many others will fit a 38mm Col de la Vie or similar tire, but with very minimal additional peace-of-mind clearance. The sloping crown lugs with more clearance that are more typical for this type of application just don't have "it."

[woolly]

The perfect country bike can be made...and has been: I would rate my Weigle, Mariposa, or Toei650B all perfect. They all meet the criteria below but they are all a bit vulnerable to travel and thrashing about. And as willing as I am to ride these beautiful bikes on the worst roads in the worst weather, what we REALLY need isn't really available. I want a bike WITHOUT S&S that travels by rolling it into the airport and is handed off without case or bag to the airlines. Yes, this can be done. But it would have to be one you could nick and trash. Such a bike would go like this:
*Lugged steel, LEVEL ONLY top tube, traditional (1" tt, etc.) tubing
*Proper square fork crown steel fork, correct huge clearances/ b/o
*Proper braze ons ALL PUT IN THE PROPER PLACE (the problem with too many "country bike" or light touring designs is that designers appear CLUELESS to me that clearances AND proper chainstay bridge placements make for PROPER fender lines). Pump peg, three bottle bosses.
*Properly PRE-designed for a front carrier like the Nitto M-12
*Silver/Tektro brakes or Mafacs, extra long
*Designed principally for a certain tire like the incoming Riv JBrown or GranBois 32c-ish
*Powdercoated for indestructibleness
*Stop with the LowTrailEvangelism, just a sensible ALLaround design, not too focused on cycloschlepping, please, please
OR
*TIG'd with threadless, all the rest as above, but you can go to an OS tubing but not TOO OS.

Get me this frame and fork for 1K, and NOT closer to 2K or more.

Too many modern bikes with slope and threadless and spacers just look like crap. Too many really truly right bikes---pick your builder---are too valuable to handle really roughly. I want to fly to Europe with a fendered bike that I don't take apart and don't worry about and looks and rides right. How hard is that? Apparently, very.

dbrk

Seems like a Surly Pacer or Crosscheck would provide most of what you list, at less than half the $1K target cost. I've become a big fan of the Surly stuff - fun, durable, versatile, useful, nice-riding bikes for a relatively low price.

Bikeman.com currently has a sale on some leftover model/color Surly frames. I picked up a cool brown metallic ("Pearl Coffee") Karate Monkey for $310 and a black ("Black") Pacer for only $270. The Pacer is going to get built up 650B with some handbuilt wheels from a tiny-but-cool local two-man operation called Trinity Cycles (www.trinitybicycles.com).

I wouldn't trade my custom Anvil road & fixee bikes for anything, but I have found that I'm having a ton of fun both building & riding these low-buget rigs too.

[shoe]

so there is one thing i won't do...which is ride my mountain bike on the road....well atleast not more than a couple miles...as far as what bikes i take on the dirt. that would be any. from 23's to wider... just have fun and allows me to think of dirt roads or single track in a different way... prefer the kirk over the serotta due to longer wheel base so there is no toe overlap with one but both are fun... and then the full suspension guys give you a funny look when you go by....have fun and get dirty.....dave

[British]

"Too many modern bikes with slope and threadless and spacers just look like crap. Too many really truly right bikes---pick your builder---are too valuable to handle really roughly. I want to fly to Europe with a fendered bike that I don't take apart and don't worry about and looks and rides right. How hard is that? Apparently, very."

I want to fly to America with a mudguarded bike that I don't take apart and don't worry about and looks and rides right, but I don't trust airlines.

According to a BBC report this last week 5 1/2 million items of passenger luggage were 'lost' by airlines in Europe last year. This is an official audited figure by the airline industry - a truly jaw dropping figure. In fact substitute 'lost' for 'stolen' because it just isn't possible to 'lose' so much in so little time. What a racket!

Are S & S couplers so bad an idea?

[dirtdigger88]

A DIRT (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=13450&highlight=dirts+kirk) road bike . . . hmmmmmm

that sounds cool

Jason

[DWF]

Seems like a Surly Pacer or Crosscheck would provide most of what you list, at less than half the $1K target cost. I've become a big fan of the Surly stuff - fun, durable, versatile, useful, nice-riding bikes for a relatively low price.

Bikeman.com currently has a sale on some leftover model/color Surly frames. I picked up a cool brown metallic ("Pearl Coffee") Karate Monkey for $310 and a black ("Black") Pacer for only $270. The Pacer is going to get built up 650B with some handbuilt wheels from a tiny-but-cool local two-man operation called Trinity Cycles (www.trinitybicycles.com).

I wouldn't trade my custom Anvil road & fixee bikes for anything, but I have found that I'm having a ton of fun both building & riding these low-buget rigs too.
Word to your mother! Hard to beet (http://www.mnhs.org/places/sites/hf/images/fallharvest.jpg) a Surly for that price ranger (http://www.dean.usma.edu/math/people/Feir/RangerTab.gif). A Crosscheck, a Long Haul Trucker would both be perfect. Buy 'em one size small if you're really going to be hitting dirt with it.

[zeroking17]

<snip>

It is NOT NOT NOT a mtn bike and tyres are in the 28 to 32 range.

Just about every good road bike that you'd not think twice about riding 100 miles makes for a nice dirt road bike. Afterall, it was not so long ago that most "road" bikes were designed for and used on every hard surface and some not so hard right? All my road bikes are ridden on some dirt / gravel. The Vanilla is the first I've had designed for the job however and it is a throwback fer sher. Here's to "throwbacks" hip hip hurray :)

Josh, I usually take your word on all things cycling as the gospel truth. After having ridden gravel and dirt roads for decades on a standard road frame with 21mm tubies, and then on a standard 'cross frame with 30mm tubies, I was at first sceptical about any potential "benefit" coming from 54mm clinchers. However, I can now say, don't knock 'em until you've tried 'em. The riding effect of large volume tires with a very mild tread is astonishing. Flotation, flotation, flotation + low rolling resistance.

[British]

Josh, I usually take your word on all things cycling as the gospel truth. After having ridden gravel and dirt roads for decades on a standard road frame with 21mm tubies, and then on a standard 'cross frame with 30mm tubies, I was at first sceptical about any potential "benefit" coming from 54mm clinchers. However, I can now say, don't knock 'em until you've tried 'em. The riding effect of large volume tires with a very mild tread is astonishing. Flotation, flotation, flotation.

54mm? What kind of frame are you using?

[zeroking17]

54mm? What kind of frame are you using?

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=335995&postcount=5

[Kevan]

on the cheap (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=330621&postcount=37)

[merckx]

a colnago c50 with the chainstays lengthened 1cm and with a steel steerer tubed fork.

obtuse

rollin' on record paves and all weathers.

[Too Tall]

ZerioKing - as soon as I read your response I let out a big DOH!!! Thinking about Mr. Class and style himself Jbay at Deerfield riding his big apple schwalbe's and passing all of us decending with impunity looking fresh. Hmmm. Horses for courses. Good call.

[GregL]

My wife's family has a camp on Great Sacandaga Lake, NW of Saratoga. Lots of fun roads that start paved and then go to dirt, like the road to Lake Desolation. I always wanted a bike that would allow me to make loops out of these paved/dirt roads.

Two years ago, I built up a Jamis Nova for the task. I picked up the frame brand new on eBay for $185. It's the most versatile bike I own. If I had to cut back to just one bike, this would be the keeper.

The Nova is built with Reynolds 631 tubing. It has road-type geometry (73 degree seat and head angles, 7 cm BB drop), but tons of clearance for fat tires. I use it as a winter trainer with fenders, a summer dirt road flyer, and a fall 'cross bike. I built it up with Ritchey bars (Biomax), stem, seatpost, and crankset (46/34), 105 9-speed STI levers, derailleurs, and hubs, Ultegra 12-27 cassette, Avid Shorty brakes (with Kool-stop salmon pads), and 36 spoke NOS Matrix Titan rims. For most rides, I use Panaracer Pasela TG 700 x 28 tires. For rough roads and single track, I use Ritchey Speedmax 700 x 32s.

The Nova is just a blast to ride. It feels just as at home in a paceline as it does on a dirt road. I plan on having it powder coated gloss black to make its finish as rugged as the rest of the bike. I'll post some pics when the new color goes on.

Regards,
Greg

[palincss]

There is lots of talk nowadays of "country bikes" and off-pavement riding of one sort or another. I wanted to get your personal, highly-biased thoughts on what constitutes the perfect dirt road bike, based on your experiences. Of course this will depend on terrain and road surface (or lack thereof), the length(s) & style(s) of rides you are partial to.....but I think this information is useful as it relates to the choices you have made as far as component choices, setup...or even frame design (for the framebuilders in our midst). I am excited to hear your thoughts on this subject!

Around here, "dirt road" rides are almost always mixed paved/unpaved, and a bike for such riding needs to be at home on both surfaces. We're in the Piedmont (in fact, some of the best dirt road riding in Northern Virginia butts right up against the base of the Blue Ridge) so it's rolling to hilly; and the grades on some of the dirt roads tend to be quite steep for short sections.

What has worked best for me is my Rivendell Saluki, with 38x650B Panaracer Col de la Vie tires. They're great both on and off pavement, and are very comfortable no matter what the surface. I know there are some here who can ride very narrow tires on dirt with success, but I skitter all over the place on 25mm, and even find 28mm sketchy. The CdlVs, on the other hand, give me a very confident feeling.

I have an XTR M900 crank on the Saluki, 26/36/48, which with a 13-30 9spd Sheldon custom cassette gives me a gear range from the high 90s down to around 22", and that's just perfect for me.

I think the Saluki is a protypical "country bike," and for this kind of riding it shines, as does its Taiwainese sib, the Bleriot.

[jbay]

[...] Thinking about Mr. Class and style himself Jbay at Deerfield riding his big apple schwalbe's and passing all of us decending with impunity looking fresh. [...]

What Too Tall is really trying to say is that I brought the class of the event down. They might not let me back this year!

You won't see them on weightweenies.com, but those Big Apples are king of the (down)hill, top of the heap. The rest, my friends, is up to you...

-- John

[djg]

So far I've been happy using my cross bike on dirt roads here and there. As you say, the riding particulars can make a big difference (for a short stretch, I'll ride a road bike; if I were carrying a bunch of stuff long distances, I might prefer a touring bike of some sort). For mixed hard ground, pavement, etc. riding, I have some tufo D28 tires that seem pretty good.

[tv_vt]

Budget pick - got this frame on eBay a few years ago. Fork was most crooked, but being steel, straightened up ok. The year of this model (not current year) took normal reach brakes, which can handle 700x30+ size tires. Really a fun bike. Similar to a Surly, I would think.