(OT) - Cooper Union - Any insights ?

[Bud_E]

My daughter was accepted to the Engineering school at Cooper Union in New York (undergrad in Mech. Engr.) and now she has a big decision to make. Are there any forumites with first-hand knowledge of Cooper Union ? I did a search on the Internets and found widely varying opinions about the program. A big draw is 4 years fully paid tuition which is difficult to turn down - but it won't be worth it if she doesn't fit well in the program.

Thanks in advance. Apologies for being completely off-topic but this forum is one of the best resources I know for thoughtful responses to these kinds of questions.

[goonster]

It is very, very much a question of individual fit.

Budget-wise, consider the whole picture w. respect to other choices. Where will she stay, and is she ready for independent NYC apartment living? Consider that roughly 50% of the students are from the greater NYC area and commute from home, at least the first year.

How intent is she on ME as her major? You've got to be very focused and not waffle on your choice of major to make it at Cooper.

How will she handle "post-prodigy syndrome" and quiz scores of 34?

On the plus side, it's NYC, which can be fantastic for the right person, even with no time and very limited money. Class sizes are small, and tenured professors are very accessible. Students stick together and help each other out. As far as I know, Cooper has one of the highest female/male ratios of any engineering departments in the country. In what is often still a very male-dominated field, women have something very close to parity at Cooper. If you make it, you've earned something that money and connections can't buy.

Like a classmate wrote in his yearbook, "I worked so hard, it was like I paid for it."

Thanks, Peter.

[bocarider]

My daughter is at NYU in the same neigborhood as CU. A really good friend of hers from high school is at CU in the engineering program. The kid is a really nice guy and in high school was a techno uber-geek of the 1st degree who worked super hard.

She bumps into him everyone and a while down in the Village and says that he says that he is working really hard and that his classmates are all super smart/motivatied/intense about what they are doing. He is a little bummed that he is not getting as much of a "college experience" as the work load and environment are so intense. Otherwise she says he is happy and he and his parents are really grateful for the amazing deal you get financially at CU.

It is in a great part of New York City - one of the really good bikeshops is right near the buildings (up a few blocks off of Union Square) and Paragon Sports is a few blocks away at Broadway and Union Square where you can find really good deals on bib shorts, jerseys and cold weather gear.

See, I found a bicycling angle to an otherwise off-topic post. :)

[Climb01742]

to be young and in nyc is an education in itself. the village, both east and west, is a great part of the city. and if it's still there, B&H dairy restuarant on second off st marks has the best french toast in the city.

[trophyoftexas]

...site of one of Abraham Lincoln's most famous speeches, all I know!

[rwsaunders]

Times haven't changed, as the comments sound like engineering school in general, not specific to CU. The joke when we were in school was that the women with us in engineering school weren't women, but were actually men who had worked their ball$ off.

[PaulE]

(30 years) I went to NYU and had a friend in the Architecture program at Cooper Union. Don't know if it was the architecture program or the times, but at that time there were relatively few students at Cooper Union who went there straight out of high school. There were a lot of older students who already had one or more college degrees.

[torquer]

(30 years) I went to NYU and had a friend in the Architecture program at Cooper Union. Don't know if it was the architecture program or the times, but at that time there were relatively few students at Cooper Union who went there straight out of high school. There were a lot of older students who already had one or more college degrees.

CU awards (or at least awarded, not sure of current program) a BArchitecture, which is a "professional" degree, required in almost all cases for eventual professional licensing. It is not at all uncommon for students with degrees in other fields to enter BArch. programs.

In my experience (college elsewhere in NYC, professional practice in metropolitan area after grad school) the CU arts and architecture students I met were serious, hard-working and savvy, and architecture grads are the equal of Ivy League grads. The students tend to be predominately from the metropolitan area (hence the commuters, but plenty are also comfortable with independent off-campus living) and many local architecture firms are headed by CU grads; other grads are in prominent teaching positions throughout the country.

This may have no bearing on the engineering school; I'm chiming in only because CU is a great school, in a great neighborhood, and the tuition deal is icing on the cake. And if your daughter doesn't "fit in well with the program", well, this isn't the Marines, she can always transfer.

[97CSI]

As an engineer that spent the first fourteen years of his career in academia, I have never known nor heard anything but good about CU for undergraduate education. As stated above, comparable to any other top-tier engineering school. Plenty of hard work and peer competition and a place to have a great time. Being in one of the best areas of one of the greatest cities in the world can only be a plus. And never discount the importance of 'networking' with other CU grads upon graduation. Nothing else opens doors so easily. You will, no doubt, have many opportunities to visit. Another big plus if you are into live music, food and the many other amenities of the 'Big Apple'.

[the unjet]

My daughter also applied to Cooper. The school has a much different "flavor" to it than other schools. Academically, it is top notch. If your daughter hasn't already seen the school I strongly recommend that she take a quick trip to see if it is right for her.
The kids are intense, but not cut throat.

[Tom Byrnes]

Bud_E,

Congratulations! Your daughter must be a very bright and talented young woman. You both should be very proud of this achievement.

My daughter's best friend from high school is a third year Art student at Cooper Union. My daughter and her friend spend a lot of time together when they are back in Los Angeles during the Summer and Winter vacation breaks. My daughter also comes to NYC from Pittsburgh to visit during the school year. Through my daughter and her friend, I have heard only great things about that prestigious school.

Good luck.

Tom

[Bud_E]

Thank you for your kind, helpful comments - this forum is awesome. My daughter Lili is a very bright creative person but she's not by any means the driven/Type A student that she is competing with for admission to college or that she will be competing with in college. On the other hand I'm a neurotic over-protective dad who worries about everything so why not worry about this? Truthfully she was turned down/wait-listed by some colleges that I would've guessed to be easier to get into than CU. But apparently CU - to their credit - recognized something in her application and test scores that they liked. She's really excited about attending CU and it's looking more and more like she'll be accepting the offer. She'll be attending a reception for accepted students in a few weeks - so we'll get the tour and hopefully be able to nab some random students in the hallway to get more impressions.

I need to stop worrying so much. Maybe I should go for a ride ... :rolleyes:

[97CSI]

And who knows........as an ME, you (we) could be pedaling one of her designs ten years from now.

[Smiley]

Bud-E , as a tripled degree's guy that got Two ME degree's I can't tell you how valuable a Free engineering degree is. I went to The Cathloic Univ of America in Washington DC a very good school and worked my butt off cause of ONE driving force, the foreign students that I went to class with made me work harder then I ever did since they brought their A game to class every day. I had no freaking time to play and was glad that I chose engineering and glad the rest of the hard driven students made me up my game. We had plenty off goof off's but that's not what GOOD engineers are made of.

Fact is if your kid knows she wants to be an engineer at this stage then she probably will thrive at CU a very good school BTW.

[stevep]

great, congrats.
you will enjoy visits to the big apple i am sure.

[CalfeeFly]

US News and World Report ranks engineering schools by those with undergrad/masters and those that have a doctorate as well. For as long as I can remember for the past 5/6/7 years or so Cooper Union has been ranked number 3. My son goes to an outstanding school that has been one or tied for one for 8 years called Rose Hulman. (We had started to look at Cooper Union ourselves then other factors happened.)

Pure engineering schools want female students. They are very hard to find. If she hasn't applied to Rose or Harvey Mudd (now tied for # 1) I'd recommend she try those as well. I know with Rose you really have to want to be an engineer because that is what it is all about.

I recommend a visit based on Rose. It isn't a school for everyone but a perfect fit for others. There nobody locks doors, there are no police on campus (just security guards like the old days), and helping one another and cooperation are the hallmark of the school. It is a very special place. Plus the instruction is fantastic. ALL courses are taught by faculty members. There are no teaching assistants. They have a variety of tutoring services available because they truly care about their students. When professors are hired there they are hired to teach first and research second. That is very different from some other schools.

I would suspect that Cooper Union is much the same...that is being a unique school. Just having that many folks that engineering is so important to them makes it unique. That is why I recommend a visit.

Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh recently had an article on how hard it is for them to find females. This is a constant problem with engineering schools. It is a huge advantage to those young ladies who attend. The ratio at Rose right now I think is about 80-20 or 75-25. That is fairly common.

If she likes the atmosphere and approach at Cooper Union it is hard to beat with tutition paid. They are constantly ranked as a top program.

I'd also check into whether they have overnight visits. My son went on some of those. With Rose they had a fantastic summer program that was all about engineering and taught by all full professors.

Lastly if she only took the SAT if she has time to still take the ACT that isn't a bad idea. That concentrates more on math and science and benefits those students more. Your daughter is a person that many schools would like to have for engineering would be my guess.

Good luck.

[Bud_E]

Thanks for the info CalfeeFly -

Her first choice was Harvey Mudd but she was wait-listed. She just assumed she had no chance at Cooper Union so we were taken by surprise when she was accepted. She applied to about dozen schools altogether - only a few pure Engineering programs . In retrospect Rose Hulman sounds like it would've been a great choice. The funny thing is that originally she was going to apply to the Art school at CU because she also has a significant background in Art and a former classmate of hers is a freshman in the Art program there - but at the beginning of the school year she switched to wanting to be an Engineer - apparently she picked the right box to check off on the application !

[goonster]

In case I didn't make it entirely clear in my first post, I'm a Cooper alumnus (ChE '96).

The Cooper experience is quite a bit different from the general U.S. college/university experience, and different even from places like Mudd and Rose-Hulman (although, academically it's probably a lot like them).

Cooper Engineering has a near 50/50 male/female distribution and being female provides a very slight edge (if any) with admissions.

I don't know if the school currently provides "overnight" visits, but even if they did I don't know what the point would be since there is no campus. I suppose there is nothing to stop a family from getting a room somewhere and visiting the Engineering building two days in a row. :cool:

Speaking of which, don't get too wowed by the neighborhood. Take a good look at that Engineering building, and talk to the students hanging out in the lounge opposite the security desk, because that is where she'll be spending most of her time.

For the full "campus" experience, find an empty classroom on the fourth floor and try to complete the New York Times Sunday crossword while the MTA buses on Astor Place fire up their diesel engines with the compressed air turbines.

Cooper is a very good school, but one should not attend primarily "because it's free" or if one is unsure about sticking with engineering to the bitter end. Cooper graduates fewer freshmen, by far, in five years or less than any other school in its class, which should be even more reason for pause when you consider it's free. There are some heartbreak stories behind those statistics, believe me.

If anybody has any specific questions, feel free to pm me.

[Bud_E]

My daughter sent in her intention to attend CU so it's a done deal. Thanks to those that posted here and PM'd me here

...and best to all the other forumites who have college-bound kids. The whole application thing seems way more stressful than when I was applying to college.

Now, what she needs is a cure for "senioritis" - I just got a look at her 10 week progress report :eek: . (We had a "talk" and she assures me she'll have it straightened out by the end of the semester - yeah right.)

[97CSI]

The whole application thing seems way more stressful than when I was applying to college.Think that is called 'marketing'. Makes one think they 'have to have' whatever one is selling. And congrats to your daughter (and her father).

[Tom Byrnes]

Great news, Bud. And congratulations.

If your daughter is interested in meeting our family friend who has been at Cooper Union for the past three years. let me know. She should be back in Los Angeles in early June.

Tom

[goonster]

Congratulations, and welcome to the extended Cooper family!

Did the Annual Fund folks call yet? :)

Aside from mechanics problems and apartment hunting, I'd say conversations with current Cooper students would be an excellent idea. :beer:

Aside from drinking beer with The Abe at McSorley's, building the first American steam locomotive, financing the first trans-Atlantic telegraph cable, running for president, paying for your daughter's education and sharing a birthday with me, he invented Jell-O, y'know.

http://www.petercooper.info/webimgs/full/PCStandingWBook%20copy.jpg

[Bud_E]

Thanks for the kind offer Tom. I'll ask Lili if she's interested - at least maybe they can e-mail each other. The thing that sealed the deal was that my wife went with her to NY for a reception given by CU for accepted students a few weeks ago. A very good friend of Lili's is now a freshman (unbelievably talented) Art student there and lives in the freshman dorm so Lili got to spend a night in the dorm room and met a number of first year engineering students. She got on really well with them and her mind was made up right there.

That night the students had a parade in the streets around Cooper square. One of the main attractions of the parade was a gigantic Peter Cooper head made out of paper mache in the style of a Chinese dragon (created by my daughter's friend. )

[Bud_E]

Congratulations, and welcome to the extended Cooper family!

Did the Annual Fund folks call yet? :)

Aside from mechanics problems and apartment hunting, I'd say conversations with current Cooper students would be an excellent idea. :beer:

Aside from drinking beer with The Abe at McSorley's, building the first American steam locomotive, financing the first trans-Atlantic telegraph cable, running for president, paying for your daughter's education and sharing a birthday with me, he invented Jell-O, y'know.

He was an impressive dude alright. But inventing jello puts him up there with the immortals ( was he the one who figured out how to get the peach slices to just hang there suspended in the middle ? :D ).

They haven't hit me up for contributions to the fund yet but considering the deal we're getting, it'll be impossible to say no.