Campy Only! Extreme Triple Setup

[Too Tall]

Our racing tandem is setup with Record 9. Triple 56X38X30 . For most long dist. rides we use a 12X27 or 12X30.

The 12X30 is new and pushed the med. cage rear mech beyond it's limit to wrap the chaim :( Also, the 56 ring requires the fr. der. to set about 10 mm too high to hit the small ring detente for small ring throw.

I've got two problems: Need to buy a long cage record / chorus rear mech or put a long cage on what I've got AND solve the front mech issue.

Chime in if you have direct knowledge. Def. think there is a better fr. der. out there. I can live with a diff brand if it is much better for the granny shift.

FWIIW - to determine that the long cage will solve the prob. I took an ancient euclid 8 spd. long cage mech and put 9 spd jockey wheels in..works dang nice and it's dang ugly ;)

Fire away

[H.Frank Beshear]

Josh I've got a racing triple 9 speed rear.send pm with address ok. :D

[Too Tall]

FrankO - You are the best north south east or west. Check if it isn't a medium cage???? What I need is the long cage version.

[ispy]

Frank, I'd be interested in that rear derailleur if it doesn't satisfy TooTall. Thanks.

[H.Frank Beshear]

TT it's definitely a long cage, I sent a pm with details.

[pdxmech13]

Can you loose the 56, go w/a 54 and put a 11-29.
I would order the long cage parts instead of der impo

[Ahneida Ride]

T squared ...

I am running a 13-29 rear, front is TA Zephyr 48/36/22 .

2002 Record long cage derallier ..... 2002 Record FD

Shifts rather well ...

Hope this helps.

[Too Tall]

Thanks PDX and Ahneida - The 56 ring is our bread and butter. We've run that gear for 9 yrs. so change is very bad. I don't like 11 tooth on tandems or for monster sprinters if they use an sram/whipperman link and we do for lots of reasons...so the 56 and 12 tooth gotta stay.

Call me crazy but I've determined that the campag. fr. der. only needs < 1 cm addition to the inner ring detent (extended) to make it 56 ring-worthy. I've got a ball peen hammer, an anvil and....this is how it starts (wink wink). I'll check out some more modern fr. shifters and see what the 650c wheel folks, bike fridays are using before I beat the carp out of a good mechanism ;)

[Dave]

FWIW, the long cage adds 3T of wrap. I installed a 13-29 with my 53/39/28 Campy 10 triple and found the long cage absolutely necessary to eliminate contact between the upper pulley and largest cog in the little ring. The RD worked fine despite exceeding the 39T wrap capacity by 2T.

The 12-27 should pose no problems, but the 12-30 will create far more wrap (44T) than the RD can handle. You'll have to decide which cog combos you want to eliminate from use and adjust the chain length accordingly. There is no way to have enough chain length to wrap the 56/30 and the 30/12. Of course no one with any sense would use anything smaller than the 30/15.

As for the FD, it's tough to predict what would work with the 56/38. I once tried a DA 10 FD on my Campy triple, just for kicks, and never could make it shift worth a darn with Campy ergo levers. Resold it on E-bay for what I paid.

To experiment, you might want to buy a cheap Veloce 10 triple FD. They work just as well according to all reports I've read. If you screw it up, you won't be out much. You may also be blaming the FD when the real problem is a shifting ramp deficiency. Most 56T rings would not be intended to work with a 38. More likely they are ramped for a 42-44.

I found the new Campy UN chain a bit too narrow for a Campy 10 triple FD. I couldn't get the right side of the cage to move far enough to the left to make the middle to little ring shift. I stuck mine in a vise, squeezed it gently and narrowed the cage just enough to get a good shift from the middle ring to the little ring.

Campy long cage RDs are cheap on E-bay. That's what I'm buying from now on.

You might also want to consider a Shimano MTB RD with a J-tek shiftmate to get more wrap capacity.

[Too Tall]

Dave you are just the guy I want to talk with :) last evening I bench tested the 30X30 with a long cage campy RD and the jockey just BARELY clears the cogs. If I were to remove 1 more link and add (gulp) a 1/2 link it would be perfect and we'd be able to wrap the 56X12 and the cage is not in danger. It is def. taking things to the limit but hey it's a racing tandem so extreme is called for ;)

Your comment "I found the new Campy UN chain a bit too narrow for a Campy 10 triple FD. I couldn't get the right side of the cage to move far enough to the left to make the middle to little ring shift. I stuck mine in a vise, squeezed it gently and narrowed the cage just enough to get a good shift from the middle ring to the little ring." That is the issue. When standing over the bike, the outboard FD plate has a lip to shift the inner ring...it extends not quite to the back of the tail piece and because of the 56 ring and required height of the FD that detente is above the chain when "going for" the little ring...soooo my thinking was to extend that detente by bending the bottom lip and hammering the plate some...but I dig your thinking. Are you narrowing the tail end only eg. the lower portion which only engages middle ring chain to throw it to the small ring? I think I'm following yah there bub...I could accomplish that way easier than banging on the lip :cool:

The Jtec device is one more thing to adjust / break and I wanted to keep the shifting all campy just beacuse however I will have one in my tool kit during the transcontinental as that will allow me to use a shimano rear mech...push comes to shove.

[Dave]

Yes, I only narrowed the tail end to correct my problem. Another thing I've found is that the 74.5 STA on my frames kicks the tail up too high, so the curve on the cage does not match the big ring. It would also cause problems in the 28/15 combo. I use a braze-on adapter modified with a dremel tool to correct the angle problem. The small sanding drum has just about the right radius for the job.

[zap]

TT, I'm putting the finishing touches on our Campy racing triple. As you know, we've gone down to a 54 but am using an 11 so that is more than enough to make up for the 56.

I've had great luck with the campy 10spd chain and will be using the newest version on the tandem.

Based on a quick check of our tandem, I don't expect any troubles shifting between the front rings. At least based on the full range of the front derailleur and where the chain sits on our 40t middle ring in relation to that right plate indent.

Proof will be later today or tomorrow when I get it on the road.

[NicaDog]

A couple of basic questions.

I have wanted to set up my Triple with at 53 - 39 - 30 but everything I read says that you can't do that - my current triple is a standard 53-42-30.

Would I need to change the FD?
Where can I get a 39 that fits the bolt pattern/distances?

Thanks

[Orin]

The Jtec device is one more thing to adjust / break and I wanted to keep the shifting all campy just beacuse however I will have one in my tool kit during the transcontinental as that will allow me to use a shimano rear mech...push comes to shove.

IMO, the J-Tek plus Shimano MTB RD is worth it. I've gone one further and used a "rapid-rise" XT rear derailleur... yes, the shifting is backwards, but I feel that the spring-loaded shift to a larger rear cog reduces the chance of mashing the derailleur into the cogs and bending things.

Orin.

[RPS]

Too Tall, I know it’s off subject, but please enlighten us who ride tandems as to the benefits of using such a small middle ring compared to your 56 on a triple.

Many road tandems with triples come from the manufacturers with 42 or even 44 at the middle, so your selection of a 38 is interesting considering you have a 30 as a backup. Any insight that may help us in the future is appreciated.

[Dave]

A couple of basic questions.

I have wanted to set up my Triple with at 53 - 39 - 30 but everything I read says that you can't do that - my current triple is a standard 53-42-30.

Would I need to change the FD?
Where can I get a 39 that fits the bolt pattern/distances?

Thanks

You need to provide more info. If the crank is Campy, the only option is an offbrand like TA. I can't vouch for how well they shift. If it's shimano, then you can get a shimano 10 speed 39T ring. With Campy there is no other FD option and none is needed. With shimano, the new ultegra 10 is made to shift a 53/39 and so is the DA FD.

I use FSA cranks with all other items Campy 10.

[Too Tall]

Dave I narrowed the tailpiece a bit and corrected the overall angle...good call on the STA thaing :) Now I need to try it.

RPS - In all seriousness beats the he!! out of me. I've raced tandems in crits, tts, PBP and just for fun. These are the gears we've used for...uh...like...forever. Everyone is real different. You question borders on koolaide. Back at yah bub. Where you going with this?

[RPS]

Dave I narrowed the tailpiece a bit and corrected the overall angle...good call on the STA thaing :) Now I need to try it.

RPS - In all seriousness beats the he!! out of me. I've raced tandems in crits, tts, PBP and just for fun. These are the gears we've used for...uh...like...forever. Everyone is real different. You question borders on koolaide. Back at yah bub. Where you going with this?
Just curious. My lightweight tandem runs a standard 53/39 double, but I plan to someday convert it to triple. On my single bikes I prefer the larger 42T middle ring of the older Ultegra -- I've never been a fan of 39s on the flats where I live. That's one of the hesitations I've had about converting my Co-Motion to triple, or buying new triples with 39s for single bikes. That's all.

[NicaDog]

Yes, it is a Campy triple crank.

Even worse, it's one of those with "champagne" colored rings, so nothing will match I suppose. Style over function may just have to go!

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
David

[Dave]

Yes, it is a Campy triple crank.

Even worse, it's one of those with "champagne" colored rings, so nothing will match I suppose. Style over function may just have to go!

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
David

Triples are really being ignored these days. Campy further downgraded their triple offering for 2007 and they're still in the stone age with regard to chainring offerings.

I use FSA Team Issue carbon cranks because they have been available real cheap on E-bay. I bought two last year for an average of $150 each. Right now there are few listed on E-bay. ISIS BBs are still readily available. The only other FSA option is the SLK, which is slightly heavier. FSA's external BBs aren't the greatest design either.

Stronglight has very light carbon triples, but they are expensive and also offer oddball rings, like a 52/42/30 and a 51/39/30.

If a 30T little ring is low enough, a Shimano DA or Ultegra 53/39/30 triple is a respectable alternative.

[Too Tall]

RPS ;) NOW I understand where you are coming from. I was more than a little hesitant to explain my rational for tandem triple gearing.

If you live in flat terrain than you sure don't need that triple. I never use mine except for the steepest climbs or when we are plain whipped and a the 38 X 25 generally does the trick. I've never liked the 42X gearing combo...it's a cadence thing? Change is bad. You like what you like.

It is hard to classify us as powerful tandem riders however that's more our style. We have a fast spin and stand in the drops over hills in the big ring and dev. lots of watts at higher cadences...thus speed.

You made my head hurt.

[Too Tall]

Triples are really being ignored these days. Campy further downgraded their triple offering for 2007 and they're still in the stone age with regard to chainring offerings.

I use FSA Team Issue carbon cranks because they have been available real cheap on E-bay. I bought two last year for an average of $150 each. Right now there are few listed on E-bay. ISIS BBs are still readily available. The only other FSA option is the SLK, which is slightly heavier. FSA's external BBs aren't the greatest design either.

Stronglight has very light carbon triples, but they are expensive and also offer oddball rings, like a 52/42/30 and a 51/39/30.

If a 30T little ring is low enough, a Shimano DA or Ultegra 53/39/30 triple is a respectable alternative.


Dave, that campy racing t 30/40/50 is a classic not to be ignored by single riders. That's a sweet setup.

UPDATE - Yesterday we knocked out a long very climby (is that a word???) ride with the "extreme triple" and are very happy. Cycle Dynamics makes a fantastic product. Their ramps pop the chain in place with a pleasing "crack". With the new fr. der. optimized we can get the granny from any chain position wooo woooo. So there you have it. FSA Team Carbon Pro. double crank with a willow tripelizer (30/39/55 yeah I change the big ring) and 12X30 rear cassette with campy long cage rear mech and veloce fr. der. (tweaked) is a spot on setup and YES I can shift into a 54X30 and the chain wraps fine and the rear cage is not maxed out AND in a 30X12 the chain is NOT slack.

Secret is to have the rear mech. "b" adjuster rotated all the way and adjust chain length exactly...one link made all the diff.

[zap]

We rode our campy record triple 10spd yesterday for the first time.

Our tandem has a number of new parts that I'll get to later, but the racing triple shifting is just about perfect. The minor problem I had was shifting from the granny to middle ring. Can't do it with one sweep of the ergo qs lever but one or two tweeks should do it.

We have a 11-26 SRAM 10spd cassette and the shifts are spot on using the Record 10 ultra chain.

[Too Tall]

Nice Zap :) What front rings are you running?
FWIIW Mine requires a double sweep also.

[zap]

Specialites Zypher tandem kit.