CSI, Colorado Concept and swaged tubes

[saab2000]

Kids,

I spent the last couple of days fondling my new/used CSI. I have now returned to the east coast without pics 'cuz my camera was out here. I got out for about 2.5 hours on the Look KG381i (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=22166&highlight=kg381i) and dreamt about the CSI.

While examining the thing I got to wondering about a few things. The tubes are swaged, which as I understand it means that the outside diameter changes. The down tube and seat tube are beefy, especially at the BB. Nice. Is this also what they call Colorado Concept tubing? Who made it? (just curious, no more than that. I assume that it was the best steel available at the time.) Also, the bike has Shimano dropouts. They are nice, though not quite as neato as the current Serotta dropouts. Still, they are nice.

When was Serotta making the CSI with this tubeset? When did they switch to the newer style dropouts? I assume the frame is mid- to late-90s.

I am sure I can get an exact figure if I send them the serial number.

I am just trying find out as much as I can about the bike.

Also, this swaged, CC tubing.... How would it compare with what is now used in a Sachs or Kirk or Serotta CdA or any other top o' the line steel frameset?

[Brian Smith]

saab -
every CSi used the swaged down and seat tubes, that doesn't help date it.
Not only are the diamaeters changing along their length, but the thickness of the walls is thicker on the ends. This design is still what was used in every CdA, Coeur D'Acier, CIII, Colorado III, other older models, and the down tube of the Fierte. The tubing may have been made by Columbus, by Reynolds, or by Tange, the supplier has changed from time to time based on whoever was best able to deliver to Serotta a quality product reliably. Supplier quality typically varies more than what Serotta deems acceptable, and that which isn't up to snuff is rejected before use.

The tubing manufacturer doesn't (obviously) make the frame, and the who behind the tubes makes much less difference now or in recent years than it did in the days the tubing companies gained their reputations. Additionally, the best tubing does make it possible to make the best frame, but materials alone don't make the frame. It's easy to overplay materials. For that matter design alone also doesn't make the frame. To paraphrase and extend an old saw of sorts around here...the (x) is not the frame, the FRAME is the frame.

Oh, the 3D dropouts came in, IIRC, '02, so your frame predates that.
Most of the tubes are thinner and lighter these days.
Atmo, ymmv, etc.
Post pix and we can probably help more.

[Grant McLean]

When was Serotta making the CSI with this tubeset? When did they switch to the newer style dropouts? I assume the frame is mid- to late-90s.

The CRL in mid 90's predated the CSI.
Late 90's would sound about right for a
shimano drop out CSI.

g

[David Kirk]

Does the top tube/head tube joint have a full lug or a half lug?

Dave

[saab2000]

Does the top tube/head tube joint have a full lug or a half lug?

Dave

I think it is a full lug. What is a half lug? It appears normal to my eyes.

Also, the frame has a braze-on front der thingie. Beefy too. And a threaded steel fork with no extension.

I'll check back in when I get to Wilmington, NC later this afternoon! :beer:

[Serotta PETE]

This is why the CDA and CIII are still some of my current production favorites. THe price of the CDA is more than competitive for a custom bike with a very nice ride and SEROTTA reputation and quality.

Yes the only "non bias" thought I could think off woud be "Mike from CYCLESPORT in NJ will do a great job in fitting you" There I said it!!!!

Have a nice day.

By the way Mike's phone is 201-391-5269 and www.cyclesportonline.com :D


saab -
every CSi used the swaged down and seat tubes, that doesn't help date it.
Not only are the diamaeters changing along their length, but the thickness of the walls is thicker on the ends. This design is still what was used in every CdA, Coeur D'Acier, CIII, Colorado III, other older models, and the down tube of the Fierte. The tubing may have been made by Columbus, by Reynolds, or by Tange, the supplier has changed from time to time based on whoever was best able to deliver to Serotta a quality product reliably. Supplier quality typically varies more than what Serotta deems acceptable, and that which isn't up to snuff is rejected before use.

The tubing manufacturer doesn't (obviously) make the frame, and the who behind the tubes makes much less difference now or in recent years than it did in the days the tubing companies gained their reputations. Additionally, the best tubing does make it possible to make the best frame, but materials alone don't make the frame. It's easy to overplay materials. For that matter design alone also doesn't make the frame. To paraphrase and extend an old saw of sorts around here...the (x) is not the frame, the FRAME is the frame.

Oh, the 3D dropouts came in, IIRC, '02, so your frame predates that.
Most of the tubes are thinner and lighter these days.
Atmo, ymmv, etc.
Post pix and we can probably help more.

[dave thompson]

I think it is a full lug. What is a half lug? It appears normal to my eyes.

Also, the frame has a braze-on front der thingie. Beefy too. And a threaded steel fork with no extension.

I'll check back in when I get to Wilmington, NC later this afternoon! :beer:
saab:

Here are pics of two CSi's. The blue one has conventional lugs, the silver has what Dave referred to as a half lug.

[flydhest]

I think it is a full lug. What is a half lug? It appears normal to my eyes.

Also, the frame has a braze-on front der thingie. Beefy too. And a threaded steel fork with no extension.

I'll check back in when I get to Wilmington, NC later this afternoon! :beer:

Next time we're riding together, check out my HT/TT joint. You'll see the 1/2 lug. It's half brazed.

Our bikes sound like they are close to the same vintage.

[dirtdigger88]

hey dave

that silver one looks pretty cool- it wouldnt happen to be a 60 would it-

Ive always wanted a csi just like that :D

jason

[dave thompson]

hey dave

that silver one looks pretty cool- it wouldnt happen to be a 60 would it-

Ive always wanted a csi just like that :D

jason
I'll make you a screamin' deal on that one. It's old and tired, fit for use only by old guys. :p

[saab2000]

The one I got is full brazed. Thanks for the pics! I have never seen one like that before.