OT: Pegoretti vs Fondriest

[SoCalSteve]

Hi all,

Ok, I have narrowed down my search to 2 bikes. The Pegoretti Fina Estampa or the Fondriest Carb Level Plus.

I would love everyones opinions of both of these frames. Of course they are not apple to apple as the Fondriest has a carbon rear triangle and a proprietary fork and the Pegoretti is all aluminum and comes with a Ouzo Pro. But, given all that, please opine away.

The prices are similar given that Fondriest will give me a substantial discount and throw in a Selcof seatpost. Actually, price is not the main consideration.

I'm a big guy, mostly recreational rider and comfort is a concern over sheer performance. Of course performance is important as well, just not as much as comfort.

I own a few American custom bikes. Serotta CSI, Seven Axiom Ti and a Calfee Luna Pro. This will be my first foray into the world of Italians.

As always, thank you in advance.

Steve

[collinsc]

I love my Fondriest, but still want a Pegoretti. I'm sure that helps. :rolleyes:

Good luck with your choice!

[dnovo]

I own one of each. To be honest, I keep telling myself I'd sell off one or the other, and then realize that they are, while quite different in build and concept, so close to one another in their ride and performance that I really can't decide which to keep and which to sell.

Bottom line? I still prefer either steel, ti or carbon to aluminum, but if you want to go with aluminum, either frame will be great.

Sorry. Dave N.

[dbrk]

I wish my Fondriest had been larger because, as it is, the fit on the Pegoretti gives it an "unfair" advantage. I can say without any hesitation that I believe the carbon rear does nothing to improve the ride in terms of comfort or performance, so I would skip it. But like dnovo, I too much prefer steel, ti, or carbon to aluminum. My favorite aluminum bike has been the Fina Estampa: I love the fit, finish, and the quality of the ride is forgiving and not chattering the teeth. I've had a slew of aluminum bikes and I'm filled with impressionistic, unscientific, unverifiable notions about them. I've put tons of miles on:
*Principia Rex (very stiff, very harsh for the long miles)
*Colnago Dream (no B-stay, no HP, no carbon rear, very possibly the worst riding bicycle I have ever owned, and it more or less fit)
*Carrera Giove (a hybrid material ride with carbon, so nothing really like aluminum, and very sweet for the ride, I wish mine were bigger, it fits at the aggressive end of what I like...)

I have a Marcelo and MUCH prefer that ride to the Fina Estampa. There is almost no weight difference between them.

The finish on the Fondriest was _excellent_: very clean, very precise, and shamelessly Italian for the powerful graphics. But for paint, no "art" bike comes near Dario. I sometimes think about getting another Pegoretti just to look at the paint.

dbrk
awaiting BLE, like a slew of other folks, I think...mine will be orange "scripts" design, standard 60cm

[Climb01742]

i have a fina and i love its ride. others here have more experience than i, but as far as my butt can tell, the fina rides as smoothly as many steel frames do. granted, its not magic carpet like ti, but it has none of the harshness that i've felt riding other alu frames. the fina just plain scoots. the merest hint of power put into the frame and it zooms. you mention that you're a "big guy", well there's zero chance of overpowering a fina. given your other frames, a fina seems like a nice addition.

[terry b]

I have one of each and if forced to choose would take the Fondriest, hands down.

The Fondriest is what an aluminum bike should be - light and fast. It has a decent ride and when I'm on mine, I fell like I'm unstoppable. I bought it because I wanted to go fast.

My Pegoretti is none of those things, instead it's a really pretty face. The bike is beautiful, and rides well enough (for me though, not as well as even my least favorite steel bike.) When I'm on it, I feel like I'm cruising on a piece of art. I bought it because frankly, I wanted one in the garage.

Depends on what you're craving - if you're looking at aluminum because you want a rocket with a good ride, choose the Fondriest. If you're after a heavy, really pretty bike with a good ride and a top shelf name, choose the Pegoretti (or any one of a number of fancy steel bikes.)

[BigDaddySmooth]

My Fina (2001 Ayers Rock) was my first foray into AL. I'm quite surprised as it is the opposite of what I expected...it's compartively heavy but rides very smoothly. I'm tempted to sell it but everytime I think that way I ride it and say no way am I selling this thing. If I ever do, the Fondriest is top on my list. The chain stay bridge area of the Fondiest is butt ugly however.
:cool:

[Matt Barkley]

I currently only own one "road bike" - the 2004 Fina. Having owned several Pegorettis (all stock 55s) and also owned several carbon/alu combos (no Fondriest) here is my take on the the Fina Estampa and carb/alu combos as far as I can tell:

The Fina is not super light, but I really don't ever care so much about weight unless I am racing quite a bit and will be doing a lot of climbing (not happening.) The Fina goes up hills great! Like Climb said - this is a very efficient bike - noticeably better power from the pedals to the rear wheel compared to most other bikes. As all of Dario's bikes this frameset is straight!, and handles as well as any bike can. Descents, corners, in the saddle climbing, out of the saddle climbing and sprinting. This bike does it all. Comfort? This frameset is on the more comfortable end of the Alu frameset comfort spectrum out there. Not super comfortable but more than manageable for 4plus hour rides. Steve, you say you are a big guy - You should get this bike! - Most of Darios bikes, especially Marcelo, BLE of course, and this Fina are made for your needs.

Carbon / Aluminum combos are are getting so much mixed press out there. People are commenting that they smooth out the ride and others comment that they notice no difference at all. I note these findings: They are heavier than just Aluminum frames (no carbon bonded seat or chainstays) they can be torsionally stiffer and seemingly stronger in the rear, and they can soak up more raod bumps than ALU alone for certain.

Good luck!

[BarryG]

I have narrowed down my search to the Pegoretti Fina Estampa or the Fondriest Carb Level Plus. I'm a big guy.


Steve, is Dedacciai U2 and a 1.1kg frame (as in the Fondriest) really suitable for a "big guy"?

[jerk]

get the pegoretti. both are fine bicycles but the pegoretti is nicer. there are very few one man shops (and there never really were all that many) where the guy who's name is on the downtube designed the tubeset, mitered the tubes, and welded the frame. pegorettis are always straight, true, and perfect in all the ways that matter. the jerk knows that some people think the fina is "heavy". it isn't. just ride it.

[oracle]

just ride both bikes if you can, decide which one you like better. simple. i would second the advice to be leery of u2 tubing if you are indeed a 'big guy' (how big are you?) and want the frame to retain its ride charactaristics for more that a couple of seasons of heavy use.

oracle

[BigMac]

Ok, I guess its my turn to either play the cynic or perhaps provide a dose of reality to this thread, depending of course on your point of view.

Let's see, you have 3 very pricey bikes at present, a lugged steel, welded ti and glued plastic. You want a 4th because....? The current posse is so decidedly diverse in design, geometry and execution, I'm confused why you feel the desire for a 4th. Unless the next bike is motorized, you will not be any faster. Probably not going to be any smoother than the Calfee or Seven and certainly not more responsive or tactile than the CSi. Are you just looking to acquire an italian bike for collection purposes? These are certainly NOT the choices to consider. I might suggest a 40's, 50's or 60's Cinelli, 60's or 70's Masi as primary targets with a 70's DeRosa a close runner-up -- expect to pay LOTS for the Cinelli (buy only pre-'72 Cinelli - before the firm was sold), and earliest Masi's. Build with vintage Campy and Cinelli components and I promise it will be very purdy... the ride will be sublime as well but expect 24-25lbs for an average sized frame if weight is a consideration...it should not be but one never knows.

Maybe in fact you do want something to ride that for what ever reason your current collection does not deliver? -- A 'grass is always greener' theory, imo but hey it's your dinero's. If you really want a modern euro racing rig, forget the Peg-Fond, Merckx is the only game in town and the Team SC has a winning pedigree that all others lay in envy. It's also one of the nicest riding modern flyweight alloy frames you'll find. No its not as smooth as the Seven-Calfee but infinitely more responsive and stable. It will not have that one-ness with road of a properly fitted CSi, but again its purpose is not to feel smooth it's to instantly respond to its riders every input and yet it still remains remarkably stable bombing descents at >80kmh. A Colnago C40 is another nice choice for modern euro race machine with illustrious winning pedigree.

Now personally if I had to choose a euro frame that was easily imported stateside, I would again look at the Merckx lineup, only I would choose an MXL (substitute Corsa if you're sub 190lb and/or not REALLY agressive rider). It too has a very distinguished racing record, is considerably smoother than Team SC and a bit more resonsive to rider inputs while also being even more stable at even higher speeds -- I've been 100kmh hands free while I zipped my jacket and other than struggling to keep from getting blown off the back of my saddle, the front-end remained as stable and calm as if I were travelling half the velocity. My Legend is still a smoother frame (nearly identical geometry although my Merckx is 63/60.5, Legend is 64/61 with .75 longer cs's) but they are the only frames I am comfortable riding hands-free for any period of time at speeds in excess of 30kmh. Honestly the MXL would be a CSi clone..or visa-versa as it were.

In the end, I would again reiterate that you should save your money for something that might actually appreciate in value, but then again I'm 55 and have 2 young kids to still put through college, not to mention sizeable mortgages on several homes. As a possible alternative to a new bike, have you considered new wheels? These can actually make you faster and dramatically alter the feel and response of a given frame. If you're riding the defacto US standard wire-ons, try a tubular wheelset with some really fine sewups. The recently discontinued :crap: Conti Comp 25's are my fave among the modern set but almost anything NOS Clement or Wolber will transform even the "worst" riding bike into something so sublime you may never stop pedalling ... no kidding. The Conti Comp 22's are pretty nice, extraordinarily durable and still in production :D . Of course the Andre Dugast sewups (actually resurrected/rebuilt Clements and occasionally Wolbers) are extraordinary along the lines of their ancestors but be warned, they are VERY pricey and not overly durable. If a really nice set of hand-built hoops using tubular rims is not compelling enough, consider an aero sewup wheelset like the very pricey Campy Hyperon or more resonable Reynolds offerings. Yes that's big $$ but still considerably less than another new bike. Now I would NOT recommend composite rims for anything other than race situations, the braking performance and feel is SEVERELY compromised but such a limited use item is still a wiser choice than another bike..again imo. Knock your self out and have fun no matter what you do, just thought a little injection of reality was warranted.

Ride on! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[oracle]

big mac: would it be too rude of me to observe that your posts seem to be less and less informative, and more becoming what seem to be ego-driven diatribes? if so, my apologies. but i used to really like reading most of your posts. give the guy a break - he just wants a new bike.

oracle

[amg]

SoCalSteve,

I wish I had your problem of choosing between a Fondriest and a Pegoretti. ;)

I do not own either, but I have been following Dario and Gianni Pegoretti's work for about the last five years now and if given the choice between a Pegoretti or any other Italian frame in Al or steel, I'd go with the Pegoretti hands down, every time.

If you'd like a bike designed and built by an artisan that has been building bicycles for riders at the highest level of competition for about the last thirty years, then the Pegoretti is your ticket. If you'd like a frame built by someone who's had so much influence on the Italian bike market that builders such as Scapin, De Rosa, Tommasini, Pinarello and Viner (as well as I'm sure many others) turn to Dario for design help and have adopted many of Dario's design features into their own frames, then Dario's your guy. If you'd like one of only about 500 frames a year built entirely by hand, in house, one at a time with the skill and care that only an artisan working at the top of his craft can provide, then the clear choice is Pegoretti. Yeah, you could say I like Pegoretti's.

Antonio

[BigMac]

Oracle:

My apolgies, you're right I'm probably too old, too conservative and yes, too opinionated-egotistical to be hanging around here. I do not visit much but when I do and I find myself compelled to reply, it is often to a gearhead rant that I should just ignore. I'm from an era where the sport was about riding and racing, it seems I do not fit into the modern bikedom world where component choices and frame choices matter. Diversity is indeed a wonderful thing, but somewhere, somehow things made more sense when basically everybody had a lugged steel frame with Campy NR stuff and if the occasional fellow showed up on a bike with Huret, Simplex, Suntour or what have you, nobody ever paid any attention. My wife has often said, the older I get the more crotchety I become. I do feel there is too much fixation on acquiring "stuff" for the sake of acquiring...or something like that. Is there nobody under age of 50 who is worried about the average American families' meager savings accounts or investment portfolio? Probably the wrong place for such thoughts. Again, I apologize if I offended anybody's sensibilities, as you were.

Ride on! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[oracle]

i was in no way offended, big mac, but puzzed as to how one could attempt to offer up a singular 'dose of reality' to an otherwise complex question to which there are many perspectives and possible answers or solutions. it is only because you are indeed a respected member of this forum that i addressed this to you. and again, my sincere apologies if i offended you, that was indeed not my intention.

oracle

[jerk]

don't go big mac. you're one of the good guys and that's coming from one of the bad guys. -jerk (who has had several team sc's and raced on the older alu teams and has had mx leaders and a fina estampa.....if you throw the team sc into the equation it becomes a much tougher choice. but dario does build an exceptional bike.)

[BigMac]

Oracle:

I was not offended, more reminded by you of the audience herein. And no I'm not "going away", I certainly did not mean to imply that. I realize I may not be the most articulate individual here, not even close, so sometimes I may be misunderstood. The point I was trying to make was that this current iteration of the forum -- by the "forum" I do not mean the software I mean the members from whom the vitality is defined -- is a younger, more modern and progressive being than am I and my opinions. It is I who needs to respect and understand that fact. That was the purpose and meaning of my prior apology.

With that in mind, SoCal, I'd choose a Team SC over anything that has ever come off the production lines at Fondriest or Pegoretti 6 days a week and twice on Sunday. To quote one of my faves from yes, my era, "Keep on rockin' in the free world" Neil Young.

Ride on! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[amg]

BigMac:

Team Sc - great bike from a great builder, no doubt, but to say, "that has ever come off the production lines at Fondriest or Pegoretti..." I would doubt there would be much of a "production line" by two brothers building about 500 bikes per year in the case of Pegoretti. I'm sure the one-offs and customs at Merckx are built by one or two people in a separate area, but the rest are for lack of a better term, production bikes, off a production line, just like the rest of the builders trying to crank out 2,500 to 3,000 frames a year.

Even when Merckx started his company building lugged steel bikes, there was a production carousel. Take a look:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Benelux/Merckx/MerckxShop.htm

Antonio

[SoCalSteve]

As always, all of your opinions are great! And, part of the reason for enjoying the hobby/sport so much.

To answer a question that was posed a few times: Why buy another bike? Well, as you can see I have a Ti bike, a lugged steel bike and a carbon fiber bike, all made in the US. Part of the hobby/sport that I love so much is trying new things (and of course riding). So next, why not try a European aluminum bike?

Here's the problem that I have run into. They do not make European bikes for big guys like me. I mean, you can custom order one and wait a few months (this time of year is an even longer wait as they all shut down for the month of August).

So, until I ran into this custom geometry (fits me perfectly) Merckx on the secondary market, I was probably going to have a Peg custom built for me. So, I think I will try out the Team SC and if I like it, great! If not, I will go through Brendan at Competitive as he seems to really have his act together when ordering a Peg.

Big Mac, I have no kids, my home is almost paid for, my wife is very low maintenance and I guess I believe in the theroy of "You cant take it with you". As for the tubs, not my thing. I have many sets of wheels ranginging from Rolfs,Mavic Ksryiums, aero D/A and even a hand built set with Open Pro's with Chris King hubs. I have tried all types of clinchers and still find the Vittoria's to be the nicest ride.

Again, thank you all for your great and honest opinions of all three builders and frames.

Steve

PS: I'm going to look at the Team SC tomorrow and if it meets my expectations, I'll buy it. if not, on to a custom Peg.

[ericmurphy]

Oracle:

My apolgies, you're right I'm probably too old, too conservative and yes, too opinionated-egotistical to be hanging around here.

Dude, 55 isn't old. 75, 85, that's old. I went riding a few weeks ago with this 62-year-old guy (20 years older than me) who completely smoked me up the hills to the summit of Mt. Tam. I returned the favor on the descents, but that's probably just the recklessness of youth. :-)

And what would any discussion group be without the occasional retro-grouch? I was on a site recently where some guy was lamenting the predominance of indexed shifting and denied the advantages of more than five cogs out back! And for all the Craig Calfees or Ben Serottas, don't we also need an occasional Grant Peterson?

A discussion board like this would get pretty boring without an occasional difference of opinion. I happen to love STI, aero-section wheels, and clipless pedals, but I'd hate it if everyone agreed with me.

Every discussion could use a good rant now and then.

[psychlocross]

Like a fair few others here, I, too, have a Peg and a Fondriest. The Pegoretti: a Marcelo; the Fondriest: a Status Carb.

Pegoretti
Pros: excellent construction, stable geometry, aesthetics, excellent all-around bike for long rides, the caché of owning a Pegoretti

Cons: the finish (for a frame at that price point, there is no excuse for such a lousy finish--it does look pretty, but only for a little), nothing else really

Fondriest
Pros: excellent construction, stable geometry (a tad more agressive than my Peg), aesthetics (decidedly northern Italian), finish (the best on any bike I've ever had)

Cons: carbon stays do nothing really but look novel, nothing else to say

These bikes are so similar, but...

Overall: the Fondriest is a better climber and more comfortable over long rides (>80 miles). In sprinting, they are about evenly matched. Both descend equally well, though the Fondriest is a touch more sensitive, which I like. I'll take out the Fondriest for riding hard and fast. I'll take out the Peg for more moderate rides. The Fondriest is more understated. I bought it because I was impressed with the build quality and handling of friends' alu Fondriests. Admittedly, I bought the Peg because, well, at the time it seemed like the bike to have. And, yes, I still love the paint job and am a fan of those stout round tubes. Unfortunately, the paint doesn't stay on the tubes.

Both are similar, Italian frames of the highest quality. No one would be disappointed with either. The longer I have the two, though, the more I see the Fondriest as a racing or fast training bike and the Peg as bike art. And, given the growing cult forming a growing queue behind Dario, they seem like collectibles. (Ooh, gotta get the latest!) Excellent bikes, both are.

My next alu bike will be a Fondriest. My next carbon bike (still debating...) will be a Fondriest. They impress me that much more.

[Climb01742]

big mac--you bring two things to this forum that i value: knowledge and passion. you are opinionated. which rocks. your opinions are based in experience. you know your sh*t. personally, i wish you'd post more. i find your posts informative and damn fun to read. write on!

[bostondrunk]

What ever happend to the Panasonic custom bike program??!!?!?

If your not getting a Serotta, then forget about your other two choices and get a tetra pro, best riding bike out there, just ask vanx...