just got back from a fitting

[JEK]

Hello, I have been lurking here and on the previous board for a while. Just got back from being measured for a new CSi which is an anniversary gift from my wife. Still pondering a couple of decisions.
1. Any difference in functioning between a braze-on vs clamp front derailleurs in the groups opinion (dura ace 10 speed)? I have a braze on for the last bike, kind of like the cleaner lines.
2. I measure for a 59 cm frame with a sloped top tube for optimal stem height. Much difference between various stem models in this regard? Any opinions on doing this with a lugged frame?
Thanks.

Jeff K

[Dude]

1. no functional difference between braze-on and clamp on front der. Serotta's have a clamp on der. so that would settle that issue.

2. If you want a sloping TT great, however it cannot be done on a lugged frame as teh lugs do not accomdate sloping TT. You can either braze a CSi or weld (essentially a CIII) the tubes to create a sloping TT. There are ways around that. You can either have a positive rise stem, a bunch of spacers (depending on fork restrictions) and/or a headtube extension. See if you fitter is able to accomodate. S/he may have their reasons for the sloping TT.

Thats the beauty about custom! The bike is built around you and there are many different ways to solve one fit issue (also known as a "fissue").

[Smiley II]

stick with a clamp on front derailure as this will allow for a triple change out if ever needed. Besides Serotta won't build it with a braze on anymore. Now as far as a sloped TT for a CSI , hummm don't know if the lug will accept any kind of slope , better double check that one for sure. If I am a betting man I say no go there, unless they will cut the lugs for the slope on a CSI.
It seems that most modern day stems are very nice if your an Ahead type of guy , I like the Ritchey stems the WCS brand. You get a +/- 6 degree stem that is not way sloped in either direction.

[TimD]

Smiley II, would you mind explaining how a clamp-on mount facilitates changing to a triple? Granted the question is moot if Serotta does not offer a choice, but I must be missing something as I have not figured it out. Thanks much.

[TimD]

With regards to stems, I would second SII's comment, the WCS seemed like a good choice to me. Having gone through a stem selection process recently I recall Ritchey offers a choice of +/-6 and +/- 17.

The TTT Zepp and Cinelli Solido are available in +/-8.

Thomson offers the Elite at 0 degrees.

If by chance you are short on steerer length you'll want to pay attention to stem stack height, which isn't often published. The Zepp and the Solido are 34mm, all Ritchey road are 40mm, the Thomson is 43 or 45mm I recall.

[eddief]

I did not talk to Serotta about this, but a few others can definitely provide a couple of degrees of slope with their lugged frames. Waterford, Kirk, Hampsten to name a few. I ended up going with fillets from Steve Rex because my best fit and visuals called for at least 5 degrees of slope. Should have new ride around the first of January. Now if those compact doubles would arrive from Ritchey or FSA.

[dbrk]

A coupla' things. First, I think headtube extensions are almost always an unnecessary compromise. They get added on for the loss of stack height in threadless configurations but leaving that aside, why not just get a taller bike. How much seatpost are you showing? These new-fangled fit theories really stink, if you ask me. If you got a taller bike and quill stem there is almost never a need for a ht extension or slope. However, if you are going to go with two compromises (ht ext and slope) then forget about the lugs, in which case, just get the CIII and save yourself a boatload of money. Same tubes, the CSi is an aesthetic choice and why get a filet brazed bike when lugs are the choice? Nahhh, just get the CIII. However, I would go back to the fitter and ask him to rethink the solution. Size up, get ride of that ht extension. If you are going to use a threadless steerer and a carbon fork then you can still size up and then a 1.5mm ht extension looks less terrible. You can in this way eliminate the slope. On, say, 98% of the bikes I see nowadays there is way, way more than a fistfull of post and the frame is too damn small. This is fashion and has little to do with fit. Ever wonder why a classic Campagnolo Nuovo Record or Super Record seat post are too short for modern bikes? It's because everyone is fit too darn small, that simple.

dbrk

[dnovo]

Thomson Elites come in several 'rises' including 0 (or 90 deg) and +5 (95 deg) but they are not 'flippable.' They are my favorite stems. Not light, but the machine work and finish on the silver stems is art executed in metal. A great finishing touch, along with a matching Thomson post, to any traditional bike.

For a 'modern' appearance, the Ritchey is one of several excellent stems available, and for my own needs, which normally requires a higher rise, that stem, has the virtue of coming in a +17 and in various lengths.

If you need the greatest possible range of lengths in a +17 threadless stem, either in 'normal' or oversize (31.8) the Bontrager stems go from, as I recall it, 60 to 140mm lengths in a +7 or +17, 'flippable.' They come in several variations based on weight and material, but most I have seen are quite nice. Dave N.

[Smiley]

its a moot point about the braze on cause they won't do it. But in the early days when tripes were just starting to show up problems arose with setting them up using the braze on clamp. A shop mechanic may be better suited for a more detailed answer and things may have changed but with all the front end gear combo's now available its really hard to set the braze on location and hope one size fits all .

[eddief]

Douglas,

My fit with Steve Rex suggested a ht length of 220. And a bar height 1 cm above saddle height for my flexibility or lack there of. With a threadless fork, in this case, he will put a 20mm spacer under an 84 degree stem...so this is getting the bars up pretty high. This will be with 6 degree sloping top tube which will expose a goodly amount of seat post. I have found that on my Waterford with threaded fork, 19 cm ht, 20mm of spacer under the top nut and then either a Nitto Pearl or another 90 degree stem, it starts to look kinda weird...and in the end there is not much post showing. For me, sloping seemed like a nice alternative. I find that I don't like the look of a lot of quill sticking out as in Pearl or worse even, Technomic, in oder to preserve level top tube and lugs. Even though I can't wait to get the Rex, I still have my eye on a Waterford with sloping top tube and Adventure Cycle lugs.

[jrm]

Thomson makes their road stems in a -10 also and is flippable. I wrote and asked the company. I needed a 100 deg stem and decided on that. I will need a ht ext on my bike since the main frame is a 64 cm and will have an upward slope to extended ht. This was very comfy in the shop now I am sure it will look weird but if I don't have too stretch my neck out while riding the drops then it is money well spent. Still waiting on delivery. John.:banana:

[Kevin]

Jeff K,

I have Ritchey WCS stems on all of my bikes. They have been rock solid and they are fairly inexpensive. Good luck.

Kevin

[Len J]

As others have noted, Serotta will only do a clamp on.

Re stems. What kind of look are you going for. If all Polished aluminum, go with the Thompson, If Blace the WCS at 84 degrees should do the trick.

As dbrk noted, size up. You have more standover than you think.

Len

[JEK]

Thank you all for the info.
Jeff K

[dbrk]

I would concur with eddief that adding slope is a better solution than ht extensions as such. You need a certain amount of headtube to get a certain height (leaving aside other factors such as bb height, tire size, etc.). But by adding a bit a slope you can push the top tube up closer to the top of the headtube, a much more aesthetically pleasing solution to my eye. Avoid those smokestack spacers or ht extensions. But my point (endless reiterated) is that most folks can ride a larger frame overall: you wear cycling shoes, so stand over your bike and most of us will find that we have LOTS of standover clearance. SOH is way over rated. I have a PBH of 85cm or a tad less and I can easily stand over a 60cm c-t frame, even a 61, which is my limit. My new Sachs is a 60 and shows a fist full plus a bit of post and not a lot of quill. I totally agree with eddie that long quills look bad. I'm not willing go where Grant goes with this but I think Grant would size people up even more if he thought people wouldn't freak out. I finally did just that. The issue here is where you want your bars---work back from there and then you can find your pedal/spindle, etc.

dbrk