What drives the industry?

[old_school]

Granted there is an eclectic bunch here, but I am fairly certain that most will admit that steel builds a fine bicycle. Yet, boutique builders aside, steel seems to be fast disappearing from the mass bicycle market (p.o.s. models excluded). Anatomic handlebars: exactly whose anatomy are these supposed to fit? Still, finding a classic bend bar is becoming a chore in itself. Now we are seeing increasingly more carbon railed saddles and stems. Both bad ideas IMO, but given that the average cyclist is not racing, these parts are about as useful as those super low spoke count wheels on the weekend warrior with 25% body fat.

So, where is it all coming from? Is it human nature, wanting the latest and greatest? Is it the desire to be like “the pros?” Or, is the industry creating its own direction through advertising and review? Perhaps it is something else, or a combination of many factors … any thoughts?

[COI]

New car, cavier, four star day dream.
Think I'll be me a football team.

[weisan]

Misguided priorities, atmo.

[bfd]

Hey, it worked for Ford in the 60s, so why not the bike industry?! Until something else proves successful, the racing image will always capture the imagination of newbies looking to get into the "sport."

What, you think touring or "country bike" is going to do it?

[Climb01742]

economies of scale play a role.

but in looking at the macro-picture, which is the chicken and which is the egg? do people buy what the industry makes? or does the industry make what people buy?

[old_school]

do people buy what the industry makes? or does the industry make what people buy?

Perhaps the (multi) billion dollar question.

[pdxmech13]

laid off marketing guru's from other industries.

[Len J]

laid off marketing guru's from other industries.

giving a rational reason (or seemingly rational) for what is at it's heart an emotional decision.

What do you think it is easier to tell a story about that might result in more sales at a higher price..............nano tube carbon, or steel?

If you knew or suspected the answer to the first question and you were responsible for a bike co or bike accessories co, what would you do?

Len

[bozman]

I think Mr. COI summed it up perfectly.

[Louis]

which is the chicken and which is the egg? do people buy what the industry makes? or does the industry make what people buy?

In most industries there is some incentive to figure out what your customers want and find a cost-effective way to give it to them. Obviously any manufacturer can try to influence the market in (legal) ways that will help his/her bottom line.

I think in most cases it's just a company trying to figure out what people want to buy. If you don't have a very good opinion of what other folks want to spend money on, then that's a different issue...

Louis

[TimD]

Its a business!

[atmo]

anvil tooling has made it possible for
an entire generation of budding frame
builders to possibly eek out a living. the
stuff lives in the beyond-awesome range.
don-effing-ferris rocks atmo.

[David Kirk]

Is this rhetorical?

Dave

[Larry]

Granted there is an eclectic bunch here, but I am fairly certain that most will admit that steel builds a fine bicycle. Yet, boutique builders aside, steel seems to be fast disappearing from the mass bicycle market (p.o.s. models excluded). Anatomic handlebars: exactly whose anatomy are these supposed to fit? Still, finding a classic bend bar is becoming a chore in itself. Now we are seeing increasingly more carbon railed saddles and stems. Both bad ideas IMO, but given that the average cyclist is not racing, these parts are about as useful as those super low spoke count wheels on the weekend warrior with 25% body fat.

So, where is it all coming from? Is it human nature, wanting the latest and greatest? Is it the desire to be like “the pros?” Or, is the industry creating its own direction through advertising and review? Perhaps it is something else, or a combination of many factors … any thoughts?

O.K. ............. steel may be disappearing from the MASS bicycle market. But, interestingly enough, ti is not doing all that great in the Mass
market, either.

It all depends on what is right for you. Do you want a racing bike, or an all around bike with comfort that does not cost a whole lot? Steel fits the bill.
Yes.......carbon is the Mass market.

[A.L.Breguet]

Misguided priorities, atmo.
Post of the century!

[C5 Snowboarder]

It is not just the bike market -- any sports market. Look at golf for example - every year they have to come out the newest idea. The Manufacturers are being quite strapped now due to max length shafts, max volume of head, max COR, balls have a maximum they can fly when hit with a spec'd robot arm, And most limiting of all -- no club can vary much from conventional 50 year old designs. Read that is no moving parts or adjustable parts or weird shapes or shafts.

[stevep]

what drives the business?
the same as drives every other business.
improving product and convincing customers that they should buy the new stuff. any kind of comparison shows vastly improved performance product over the last 20-25 years*.
overall the problem faced is that the pie is not really growin- see the shimano automatic bike thread below...and we are all selling to the same few customers.....and moving them around..watch here for awhile, everyone starts with this, goes to that, is waiting for something else, wished they could get something else ( in under 5 years ), etc
over and over the same customers.
also notable is ( on this forum for sure) a micro group of custom builders and steel bike afficianados who have their own niche within a niche... but it'll never be huge, impossible. but we all love bikes... so there it is.

* no arguments here. ride a 1980 top of the line anything and then
a 1990 "
and then a 2000
and then something current.

no argument. you can like the old stuff but the new stuff works way better.

[bcm119]

Its the american way. We're determined to fill every landfill with last year's outdated sports equipment, electronics, appliances, etc. Its change for the sake of business, because if each _thing_ we bought served its entire functional lifespan with no reason for replacement, the spending rate wouldn't keep our economy alive.

On a related note, does anyone know of any washing machines that automatically sense whites or colors? I'm tired of having to decide which button to press on my p.o.s. kenmore from 2005.

[Archibald]

anvil tooling has made it possible for
an entire generation of budding frame
builders to possibly eek out a living. the
stuff lives in the beyond-awesome range.
don-effing-ferris rocks atmo.
Post of the year, yo! :beer:

I always thought that guy was a real derelict, but after spending some quality time with him at NAHBS, well, even looking through my whiskey goggles I could see he was better looking than Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie put together and at least twice as smart as Einstein (we're talking almost as smart as Carl Strong or, gasp, JMewkill) and funnier that Vince Vaughn on mushrooms. I saw Madonna asking for his DNA.

:banana:

[mosca]

.

[atmo]

Post of the year, yo! :beer:

I always thought that guy was a real derelict, but after spending some quality time with him at NAHBS, well, even looking through my whiskey goggles I could see he was better looking than Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie put together and at least twice as smart as Einstein (we're talking almost as smart as Carl Strong or, gasp, JMewkill) and funnier that Vince Vaughn on mushrooms. I saw Madonna asking for his DNA.

:banana:
DNA is one of the radio pre-sets in my outback atmo.

[catulle]

Greed?

[michael white]

who cares?

[Grant McLean]

I know what drives my industry...


g

[fstrthnu]

I know what drives my industry...


g

Thank You Grant for my new desktop background image.

Justin

[J.Greene]

So, where is it all coming from? Is it human nature, wanting the latest and greatest? Is it the desire to be like “the pros?” any thoughts?


I want to be like Grant! That's a great pic of your bike pal.

JG

[Grant McLean]

I want to be like Grant! That's a great pic of your bike pal.

JG

thanks dude! my pal howard shot the frame in his studio before it was built up.

g

http://howardchang.com/

[jcmuellner]

you can like the old stuff but the new stuff works way better.

Not in all cases. I look at my 1997 truck compared to my 1974 truck and they get the same mileage, but the newer truck, outside of more interior comfort, costs 10 times more to repair, requires it more often and really has made me reconsider what "new" really offers.

It's the same with bikes...I have a nice old down tube friction shifting bike that continues to work year after year. I outfit a nice match Paramount with new Ultegra shifters and all and it barely makes it a year before the right shifter goes bad - and it can't be repaired - it has to be replaced. That isn't progress to me.

I go to buy my wife a bike so she can do recreational triathlons - all the bikes come with huge gears she will never use, even in competition - come on, a 52/12? And this from a company who should know it's market.

I'm really not convinced that new is always better.

[Grant McLean]

I'm really not convinced that new is always better.

well, i guess that's because the definition of "better" isn't the same for everyone.

Better for bikes mean lighter and stiffer, but if you don't care about either
of those things, then you're right, there's not much 'better' about modern
stuff.

g

[C5 Snowboarder]

Not in all cases. I look at my 1997 truck compared to my 1974 truck and they get the same mileage, but the newer truck, outside of more interior comfort, costs 10 times more to repair, requires it more often and really has made me reconsider what "new" really offers.

.

I'm really not convinced that new is always better.

Good example -- I own a 1980 280 SL - little Mercedes Roadster, I have 179K miles on it now and it continues to run like new. Very little maintenance $$. It still has the original clutch , shocks, exhaust system, motor has not been touched except for a planned timing chain replacement @ 100K. Now put that sucker up against a new 2007 SL and you better own a goldmine once the warranty has expired.

[Archibald]

thanks dude! my pal howard shot the frame in his studio before it was built up.

g

http://howardchang.com/
Beautiful! Does that say "Anvil" in front of the "Sachs"?

[atmo]

Beautiful! Does that say "Anvil" in front of the "Sachs"?
it says casual atmo.

[Len J]

thanks dude! my pal howard shot the frame in his studio before it was built up.

g

http://howardchang.com/

I really like many of the pictures on his site......he is really talanted.

Man, you ought to post all the pictures he took of your bike.

Drool worthy.

Len

[Len J]

it says casual atmo.

break some commandment or other? .......Casual Sachs indeed!

Let's keep it clean huh. :cool:

Len

[Archibald]

it says casual atmo.
Right, like what would you know about it?

It says Anvil. Notice the "dot" over the "i"? Since when does "casual" have an "i" in it? It says Anvil. I think the deal is that Sachs guy has the really nice bikes like this one built by that Anvil outfit. A bike that perfect had to be built on one of those computerized robot machines. Can't do stuff like that by hand. Impossible. You'd have to be like Trek or something to pull that off. The Sachs guy just builds the team cross bikes. JMewkill told me.

[atmo]

Right, like what would you know about it?

It says Anvil. Notice the "dot" over the "i"? Since when does "casual" have an "i" in it? It says Anvil. I think the deal is that Sachs guy has the really nice bikes like this one built by that Anvil outfit. A bike that perfect had to be built on one of those computerized robot machines. Can't do stuff like that by hand. Impossible. You'd have to be like Trek or something to pull that off. The Sachs guy just builds the team cross bikes. JMewkill told me.
mebbe it's a goodrichie atmo.

[Archibald]

mebbe it's a goodrichie atmo.
Possible. That guy is a robot! Or at least he dances like one at the strip club where he works...or so Obtuse told me.

BTW, I think I've been using JMewkill's name too freely. Today I received a letter with no return address, just made out to Archibald and when I opened it up all it had was a plain white business card with only his name on it. I think it's a warning. Freaked me out. I'll post a pic! I'm telling you man, the Dude is Five-O!

[AgilisMerlin]

Fear and Loss

[RIHans]

mebbe it's a goodrichie atmo.
Never seen a bad one one! Just sayin'

[old_school]

well, i guess that's because the definition of "better" isn't the same for everyone.

In my opinion, it doesn't get any better than that gold Sachs.

Absolutely stunning. (and amazing photography as well)

Gold could be the new red.

[obtuse]

Possible. That guy is a robot! Or at least he dances like one at the strip club where he works...or so Obtuse told me.

BTW, I think I've been using JMewkill's name too freely. Today I received a letter with no return address, just made out to Archibald and when I opened it up all it had was a plain white business card with only his name on it. I think it's a warning. Freaked me out. I'll post a pic! I'm telling you man, the Dude is Five-O!


that is the scariest thing i've ever seen. the man probably doesn't even have an address. you definatly should have lent him your truck.

obtuse