Compact Triple advice needed

[mschol17]

As I prepare for my first brevet series, I was thinking that it would be smart to have a bail-out gear for those steep hills with 30 hours of riding in my legs. I currently run a 52-42-30 triple with a 12-25 Campy 10 speed cassette. I was thinking of switching the front to something along the lines of 48-36-26, or maybe switching the cassette to a 12-29. I really don't need the high gears, since I won't be pedaling at 35 mph.
From what I've seen, the main options for a compact triple are TA and Sugino. Does anyone have any opinions or thoughts? The TA stuff is gorgeous, but I'm not that interested in spending $300. Are there any other options I'm missing?

Thanks,

Michael
DC

[fiamme red]

Just get a 13-29. No need to buy a new crankset. The 42t middle chainring is much more useful on rolling terrain than a 36t.

[Dave]

I ride a similar setup for the Colorado mountains, a 53/39/28 with a 12-25 (also Campy). I've never liked Campy's chainring offerings, so I use FSA cranks that come stock as a 53/39/30 and switch out the little ring.

Changing to a 13-29 cassette with a long cage RD would accomplish the same thing as the compact triple change, reducing your top gear and adding more low. The long cage RD is a must, as is a 1 inch longer chain. An even simpler change would be to just change the little ring to a 28, but the 42/28 shift might suck. A 39/28 works fine.

Long cage RDs are cheap on E-bay.

I also have a 13-29 cassette that I put on one bike for the early season. That bike is setup with the long cage RD, regardless of the which cassette I use. Seems to shift as well as the medium cage.

[Serotta PETE]

I second the use of the 13x29. Then when you finish you can just go back to the 25. That is how I do it. PETE

[wanderingwheel]

I agree with Fiamme. A mountain bike triple (essentially what you are looking for) is much too low for touring for me. If you frequently use your lower gears, the 12-29 cassette is not a bad idea. If you rarely use them, you'll probably be fine as it is. For the last Gold Rush Randonee, I used a 11-23 cassette with a 50-40-28 crank.

[dauwhe]

Gearing is very personal--what works for you might not work for me. Best to think about the gears you use most...

If I had the original poster's bike, I'd turn the 52t chainring into a chainguard, as I'd have no use for it. But that's just me!

On the 2nd day of last year's 600k (my first), hills that I normally do in the middle ring (maybe 34 x 28) I could barely ride up in a 24 x 32. Almost had to walk!

Dave

[Ginger]

I only have one ride on it, but I can say that I'm looking forward to doing the brevet series with my standard campy triple with a 13-29 cassette. Even in my sorry out of shape state I can ride hills with that thing!

For reference I *was* riding a compact double with the 13-29 before...I could go up hills in slog gear, but with the triple and the 13-29 things are so much easier.

[Ahneida Ride]

I run a TA Zephyr 48/36/22 with a 13-29 rear.
I am a spinner.
I simply cannot mash gears. I just can't.
My knees provide immediate feedback if I try and the message is not congenial.
I know the difference between good and bad pain.

Again ... gearing is so personal. I wish manufacturer's would offer more options. Serotta offers a custom frame, but gearing option are limited.

I am deeply indebted to DBRK for suggesting the TA Zephyr.

[Ken Robb]

My Kirk has 13-29 10 spd Chorus w/ TA Zephyr 48-38-28 and it works great for me. I have 26 and 24 rings in the tool box if I need more help grinding up hills.

[dirtdigger88]

after getting humbled on some early season hills- I installed an xtr RD and an xtr 12-32 cassette on my kirk

that should get me over the early season hump- so to speak

now Im ready to take on jimmi-

jason

[Jeremy]

From what I've seen, the main options for a compact triple are TA and Sugino. Does anyone have any opinions or thoughts? The TA stuff is gorgeous, but I'm not that interested in spending $300. Are there any other options I'm missing?

Thanks,

Michael
DC

Sugino makers the XD which is a decent 74/110 triple. They also make a crank called the Kospea which is a beautiful cold-forged compact crank. It can be set up as a compact double or triple. The 74mm bolt circle is flush with the plane of the inner 110mm chainring. As a result, you can use it as a double without any posts sticking out, or as a triple with spacers and bolts (MTB 74/110 triple cranks often came this way). I have mine set up as a triple with 24/36/48 gearing.

Another option is the 110mm tripleizer from IRD. This is similar to the Specialties TA tripleizer but it is designed for the 110mm BCD standard. With this part, you can convert many compact doubles to triples.

Cheers,

Jeremy

[Elefantino]

I second (third?) the 13-29.

I have 53-39-30 on my triple and throw a Veloce 13-29 on the back for things like Six Gap and such.

I still grind, but at a higher RPM.

Actually, I like the 13-29 on my FSA compact, too, with the long-cage Centaur rear. To me, it shifts a lot nicer. Triples just shift clunkily, IMNSHO.

Of course, when you're wheezing up Hogpen :help:, 30-29 sounds and feels a lot better than 34-29.

[Dave]

Folks who complain about poor shifting with a triple must own Shytmano stuff, some cheap off brand, or just don't know how to wrench.

I've setup four FSA cranks with Campy drivetrains and the shifting has alwasy ben very good. I read a lot more comments about sketchy compact shifting.

[Elefantino]

Folks who complain about poor shifting with a triple must own Shytmano stuff, some cheap off brand, or just don't know how to wrench.

Are you saying I'm a complainer? Because I have Campy and know how to wrench.

[Grant McLean]

Sugino makers the XD which is a decent 74/110 triple. They also make a crank called the Kospea which is a beautiful cold-forged compact crank. It can be set up as a compact double or triple.
Jeremy

Just incase anyone goes and googles that crankset, is Cospea with a 'C'.
Nice crank, good advice there 'Jeremie'. ;)

http://www.jitensha.com/eng/cospeacrnk_e.html

g

[mschol17]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. After commuting through the rain, dirt, and oversalting for "winter" here in DC, I'm probably due for a new chain/cassette combo anyway.
Unless someone has a Cospea, Alize, or Zephyr they would like to get rid of...

[Grant McLean]

just noticed that benscycle on ebay has the octalink version for a good price

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=sugino+cospea

I've bought from this seller many times, great to deal with.

g

[davep]

As has been mentioned, gearing is VERY personal. I have done two SR series, and have done the 200k, 300k and 400k this year. I ride a Campy triple, 50/40/30 with a 13-29 and this is usually more than enough. But 375k into a 400k, or 500k into a 600k, hills that would be easily rideable are tough even in the 30/29. I will probably change the granny ring to a 28 sometime before PBP, but maybe a 26. My philosophy is that it is better to have low gears that you do not need than to need gears you do not have. Good luck on the brevet series.

[beungood]

Why does the Standard Campy 53/42/30 triple's 42 ring work better in rolling terrain? I've flirted with putting a compact on my Spectrum Beam bike but happened across a Campy Chorus Triple Crank (175 little bigger than my 172.5) in 53/42/30 that was too good of a deal so Ive thought of setting the beam up for something similiar. Havent picked the brifters or the cog up yet. Any suggestions? it's replacing my Campy 8spd..

[Dave]

Why does the Standard Campy 53/42/30 triple's 42 ring work better in rolling terrain? I've flirted with putting a compact on my Spectrum Beam bike but happened across a Campy Chorus Triple Crank (175 little bigger than my 172.5) in 53/42/30 that was too good of a deal so Ive thought of setting the beam up for something similiar. Havent picked the brifters or the cog up yet. Any suggestions? it's replacing my Campy 8spd..

It doesn't, IMO. Any cog with a 42 is the same as one cog smaller with a 39. If you really hate making the trivial shift from the 42 to 53, and you have a lot of riding where a 42/12 or 42/13 keeps you from making that shift, then it's "better". On the other hand, if the terrain is hilly enough, the 42 robs you of one low gear and you'll be forced to make the nastier 42/30 shift more often. The 53/39 combination has been specified on the vast majority of road since soon after the advent of indexed shifting that makes precide 2-3 cog changes a snap. The 42 tooth is a holdover from the days of non indexed shifting.

I choose a 53/39/28 with a 12-25 (for the mountains). The lowest useable combination in the middle ring is the 39/23. The 39/25 really should not be used, since the middle ring is in nearly the same position as the big ring on a double crank. The chainline is too extreme except for a brief use. At the other end, the 39/12 is quite useable. I find that I can ride most of the hills in my area with a 39/23. If I had a 42 middle ring, the 42/23 would be like a 39/21 and I'd make the shift to the little ring far more often.

Useable chain line is always a matter of opinion. A lot of riders think that as long as they can shift into a combo, it's useable. I often see triathletes climbing in the big ring, using the largest cog, rather than being sensible and shifting to the middle ring and 2-3 cogs smaller.

Edit: The idea that one particular gear ratio is a favorite or special makes no sense to me. Even riding the exact same route week after week, I might use any of three different ratios on a given stretch of road, depending on the direction and speed of the wind and how hard I feel like riding. I think every gear ratio has it's place. I've got no favorites.

[Jeremy]

just noticed that benscycle on ebay has the octalink version for a good price

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=sugino+cospea

I've bought from this seller many times, great to deal with.

g

Thanks Grant,

Euro-Asia stocks the crank in black, which is sexy if you like that sort of thing. So, any favorite LBS should be able to get one from Euro-Asia.

Does someone know if any of the US distributers stock the square taper version?

Cheers,

Jeremy

[CNY rider]

Dave's post above explains why I have an old Ultegra 30/42/52 laying on my basement floor looking for a new home and a new 30/39/53 DA crank on my Legend waiting for the snow to stop.
In hilly areas the 39 middle is definitely my preference.

[Grant McLean]

Does someone know if any of the US distributers stock the square taper version?

Cheers,

Jeremy

Jitensha charges $265 for the square taper, which seems like a lot,
but maybe the square taper isn't imported by anyone, so their cost
of bringing them in direct could be quite high. Cry a river for us
bikeshop guys who have to pay retail sometimes, how do the rest
of you do it? :) :) :)

g

[Grant McLean]

In hilly areas the 39 middle is definitely my preference.

I do believe the 42t suggestion was in the context of 'rolling', not hilly.
Personally, I'm a big fan of 42. But that's because I don't live in a hilly area!

g

[CNY rider]

I do believe the 42t suggestion was in the context of 'rolling', not hilly.
Personally, I'm a big fan of 42. But that's because I don't live in a hilly area!

g
Yeah but the sushi at Hiro's should more than make up for it....

[dauwhe]

...and I like a 34 middle ring. The next gal or guy might like a 44, on the same terrain. Hard to generalize!

Jan Heine has written some nice gearing articles for BQ. The basic idea is to see what range of speeds you have on each chainring, based on your typical range of cadence. If you choose your middle ring well, for example, you could tackle quite a range of rolling terrain, from moderate uphills to moderate downhills, without shifting the front.

Dave

[BoulderGeek]

Dave, that was a nicely documented explanation of chainline angles.

I wonder if my being sloppy with sitting in big/big combos leads to my propensity to break chains.

I used to have a gear-inch chart taped to my bars so I could be reminded to make the proper gear choice to keep the chain centered. I now realize that I have gotten sloppy and careless.

OT: I miss the ridiculously simple "Your_Friend!" Did he get purged for being a troll?

[fiamme red]

Why does the Standard Campy 53/42/30 triple's 42 ring work better in rolling terrain? I've flirted with putting a compact on my Spectrum Beam bike but happened across a Campy Chorus Triple Crank (175 little bigger than my 172.5) in 53/42/30 that was too good of a deal so Ive thought of setting the beam up for something similiar. Havent picked the brifters or the cog up yet. Any suggestions? it's replacing my Campy 8spd..I'm using a 13-25 9-speed cassette with a 52-42-30 crank. I don't use the middle chainring with the smallest or largest cogs. So with a 42t, I get a range of about 80 gear inches, down to 50. That pretty much covers all rolling terrain. My favorite gear, the 42x16, has very good chainline. If I switch to a 39t, I get a range of 75 to 45 inches. I miss the easy shift to the 80-inch gear, having to shift to the large chainring. My favorite gear (now 39x15) now has worse chainline, the 15t cog being in third place, not fourth.

Also, shifts from the 52t to 42t are easier. Suppose I'm in my 52x17 (82-inch gear) and want to shift to the 42x15 (75-inch gear). I only need to shift down to the middle chainring and up two cogs. If I use a 39t, I need to shift down a chainring and up three cogs, from the 17t to the 14t cog (39x14 is about 75 inches).

If I'm using a triple, I already have the low climbing gears on the small chainring. So I want the middle chainring optimized for rolling terrain and I want easy shifting between big and middle chainrings.

I once had a 48-36-26 Sugino crank with a 12-25 9-speed cassette on one of my bikes, and I hated it. The gearing sequence made no sense to me.

[Dave]

Also, shifts from the 52t to 42t are easier. Suppose I'm in my 52x17 (82-inch gear) and want to shift to the 42x15 (75-inch gear). I only need to shift down to the middle chainring and up two cogs. If I use a 39t, I need to shift down a chainring and up three cogs, from the 17t to the 14t cog (39x14 is about 75 inches).

That's the beauty of today's brake shift levers, they are setup such that a 3-cog shift is virtually effortless. The vast majority of road bikes have a 53/39 for this reason - increased range with a 1-cog shfting penalty. Compact 50/34 takes this too far, with one more cog shift required. None of the brake/shifters can shift 4 cogs larger with one sweep of a lever, but Campy ergo can shift as many cogs smaller as you want with one push of the thumb button. Shimano users get to tap, tap, tap.

[97CSI]

Have found that the standard Campy 50/40/28 or 26 (both from TA) handles everything I run into in CO when used with a 13-29 cassette. And shifts well, too.

[Ahneida Ride]

My Campy Record 13-29 Long Cage, TA Zephyr 48/36/22 configuration
shifts rather well.

Ultimately, shifting performance depends on who is setting the configuration up.

[palincss]

The lowest useable combination in the middle ring is the 39/23. The 39/25 really should not be used, since the middle ring is in nearly the same position as the big ring on a double crank. The chainline is too extreme except for a brief use.


And yet, the illustration you posted shows all sprockets being used on the middle ring as OK!