2007 Record Problem

[Simon Q]

A little while back I posted a query about whether anoyone had ecountered shifting and noise problems with 2007 Campy chains, thanks again for your posts.

My 2007 Record shifts up beautifully from the smallest to biggest cogs and shifts down well until it starts get a bit hesitant in the smallest three cogs, especially the smallest, to the point where it sometimes won't shift in big ring to the smallest cog without a quick back pedal to throw it in. Also, there is a ticking/crunching noise, especially bad in the small ring/middle cogs, which sounds as if the gears need serious tuning.

After losing faith that I could tune the gears I have had the gears looked at by several wrenches and it doesn't seem to be the tuning.

These are the other potential causes offered:

1. Campy chain. A local LBS stated that he had issues with some Campy chains and thought a Wipperman would help. The Wipperman nickel plated chain seems shift more crisply (and therefore could be a keeper) but the same issues persist with the down shifts maybe slightly better but the noise is definitely still there.

2. The spacing on the cassette is out. Not heard of that one and I would be surpised. Anyone else heard of this? I am cleaning up the cassette on a wheel that is quiet and shifts well with pre-2007 Centaur on the spare bike to try and see if the different casette makes a difference.

3. Someone yesterday thought the shifting issues were symptomatic of the rear derailleur/hanger being bent/not aligned. Does this sound right? I would hope it is not the hanger as it is a new Councours CS.

I appreciate this is not the most fascinating thread but any light that can be shed would be greatly apprecaited as this issue is really starting to bug me now. I have been relaxed about it for some time now but new bike + new top group + shifting issues and noise + no easy or obvious solution = frustration.

Thanks very much in advance for any thoughts.

Simon

[cs124]

Bugger.

As unpalitable as it may be, I'd investigate the alignment of that derailleur hanger.

[stevep]

sounds obvious but be sure that the cable is connected to the rear derailleur exactly.
i dont know if there is a small groove where the cable attaches but maybe the cable is not exaactly in the "groove "
thereby sligthtly botching the swing.
also the cable adjuster at the derailleur works best when not backed out all the way..
maybe not the case but worth checking.

[musgravecycles]

It's a beautiful thing...

http://www.parktool.com/images/products/productimages/det_DAG-1_2005727_24486.jpg

[Too Tall]

No frickin' way. Find a better shop. That system is the shiznitz and it is not setup proper. There is no prob. with the chain, there is no prob with cassette unless some bozo put the spacers in the wrong spot. Frankly I am appaled you've had to go to several mechanics and nobody made this right. Move to France, it is your last hope otherwise read on.

Here is my instinct on the two issues. First, shifting from little ring into your 12/11 and associated noise. The sound you hear up front is the chain rubbing your front small ring. That is the deal on short chain stay bikes. Live with it or better yet flip it into the big ring and downshift two cogs. You can ride the 39X12/11 but it really isn't the best combo. Next, slow shifting into the hig cogs (11/12) is very symptomatic of friction in the cable housing. Since it is a new'ish setup the prob. is likely a kink in the cable somewhere or dirt in the bb guide. Let the cable loose at the r. der. and manually move the cable back and forth between various places and find the prob.

Hope this helps.

[catulle]

You gotta tweak the cable tension 'til it works just fine. Of course, everything else must be properly aligned and functioning smoothly.

[dirtdigger88]

upgrade to dura ace-

jason

[pale scotsman]

Is the lock ring tight enough? I had one that started sounding like crap and sure enough the lockring had worked a little loose. Also make double dog sure the shifter cable has a campy style head. The head of the cable has to fit in the groove just right and shimano style one won't.

[pdxmech13]

I'd go with stevep on this one. and just to make sure throw in a new inner cable 1.1mm. It wouldn't seem likely that the hanger is misaligned but that takes a good mechanic a minute to check. The weirdest things in shifting I've experienced with campy and it sometimes came down to the shifter internals. unfortunatly this is a PITA for you but the bike shop you bought it from should make this rite, just givem some time.

[Too Tall]

Ooooo, good call Steve-OH :) Yeah there are so many small items that will fudge up 10 spd. installs. Krikey, it's gettin' so you almost have to know what the heck you are doing!!!!

[Grant McLean]

No frickin' way. Find a better shop. That system is the shiznitz and it is not setup proper. There is no prob. with the chain, there is no prob with cassette unless some bozo put the spacers in the wrong spot. Frankly I am appaled you've had to go to several mechanics and nobody made this right. Move to France, it is your last hope otherwise read on.

Here is my instinct on the two issues. First, shifting from little ring into your 12/11 and associated noise. The sound you hear up front is the chain rubbing your front small ring. That is the deal on short chain stay bikes. Live with it or better yet flip it into the big ring and downshift two cogs. You can ride the 39X12/11 but it really isn't the best combo. Next, slow shifting into the hig cogs (11/12) is very symptomatic of friction in the cable housing. Since it is a new'ish setup the prob. is likely a kink in the cable somewhere or dirt in the bb guide. Let the cable loose at the r. der. and manually move the cable back and forth between various places and find the prob.

Hope this helps.

+1

sorry to hear of the frustrations you have had.
switching out parts to non-campy ones is a sign of desperation and cluelessness
by a shop mechanic that should not be working on your bike.

there is a solution to your shifting issues, you just need to find a service
shop that knows what they're doing. it's not rocket surgery...

Just a flying guess here, but the rear derailleur cable IS installed on the
correct side of the allen bolt, right?

g

[Ti Designs]

I kinda like multiple choise questions more...

OK, we know it shifts in one direction just fine (pulling cable), but not so well in the other direction (releasing cable or letting the derailleur spring do the work). There are about a zillion simple reasons for shifting to be off, a good mechanic could probably check them thru in their sleep, but here goes anyway. Cog spacing - the gaps should be uniform, make sure the lockring is tight. Freehub play, not common but I've seen it happen. Just put a finger or two on it and pull to make sure the freewheel isn't moving side to side. With those two checked off, put the wheel back in the frame. Derailleur tab alignment - the most common cause for poor shifting. Thread the tool in, make sure that the tab is in the same plane as the wheel. If it's a replacable dropout, make sure the hardware that holds it in place is tight. Note: make sure the QR is as tight as you would use when riding. On many aluminum bikes with a replacable dropout tab, the piece moves when the QR is closed tight. Next, check the cable run from front to back. Move the derailleur over to the largest cog, this will take the tension off the cable as you shift. This allows you to check how well the cable slides through the housing or past the bottom bracket guides. When shifting the shifter and pulling the bare cable past the cable stop, it should feel like solid stopping points, not like pulling on a rubber band. The problem described is exactly what you would expect from cables that don't move freely, they work at the large cogs where the spring tension is highest, not so well at the low end... Adjusters are another thing to check. If they are threaded out too far the amount of wiggle they have as the cable is jerked around is enough to throw off the shifting. Cable adjusters only have about 5 turns of adjustment total. Cable adjusters that are threaded out more than that become a liability to an otherwise working bike. The cable adjuster is a screw with a hole in it for the cable, often made out of aluminum. The threads on the outside act as stress risers, ready to break off with any kind of side force, and the cable housing runs into the end, ready to supply that side force should the cable get hit of the bars swing around. Then there is cable attachment points on the derailleur. Sram, Shimano and Campy all have to be different, but there's a right place and lots of wrong places - nuff said. Lastly, there's the cable head. Campy shifters are hard on cable heads and using a generic cable can result in the cable starting to frey right at the solder end.

Confused yet?

[Too Tall]

TiDezine - Scarey stuff mahn ;)

[Dave]

Sounds like a simple cable friction problem to me. The cables are either poorly routed and/or need lube. When shifting to smaller cogs the rear derailleur's spring tension does the work. If the cable friction is too great the shifts won't execute quickly. The failure to shift into the smallest cog could also be due to the right limit screw needing another 1/4 turn out.

Setting the cable tension too high can also add to the problem, but any mechanic should be smart enough to get that fixed. The more common problem when excessive friction is present is to loosen the cable tension too much in an effort to improve the shifts to smaller cogs. Then the loose cable won't execute shifts up to larger cogs quickly, so both directions get fouled up.

[Simon Q]

It is morning where I am so just logged on.

Thank you very much to everyone who posted replies, I really appreciate it.

I will try everything suggested and report back soon, hopefully with a happy ending.

[Jeff Weir]

I would love a happy ending.

[atmo]

I would love a happy ending.
is that jeff weird atmo -

[Grant McLean]

is that jeff weird atmo -

he's just friendly


g

[SponsorsWanted]

I would love a happy ending. I understand the Japanese know something about happy endings- get Shimano

[AgilisMerlin]

upgrade to dura ace-

jason


That was just plain CRUEL..................................... :banana:







i SAY, mIx AND mAtCh WITH shimPagnoLo....................... :D

[michael white]

I just fixed a similar problem on a shimano-equipped bike. I ended up changing out cassette, chain, etc, reinstalling everything, but the problem persisted. I think finally it was a single short strand of cable that had broken free from the rest of the cable near the lever, and was jamming things up just a little, but it was so minute I didn't notice when lubing the cable.

anyway, I replaced the cable, and now it works good as new.

[catulle]

Students: Good morning teacher. How're you today?

Teacher: Fine thank you, pupils. How're you today?

(Students sit and class begins)

Teacher: Today we'll study the oxymoron. The plural of the word oxymoron is oxymora. An oxymoron is something (as a concept) that is made up of contradictory or incongrous elements.

Student: Huh...? That's hard Ms. Bush. I don't understand. Please give us an example.

Teacher: Ok. Hum, let's see. Today I saw a title on the Serotta Forum. The title was, "2007 Record Problem". You boys and girls know that having the words Campagnolo Record and problem on the same sentence makes absolutely no sense, don't ya?

Students: Jezz, teacher, even we know that, atmo...

Teacher: Well, there you have it. The perfect oxymoron. Hum, maybe I ought to write a book about it or something.

Student: Ok, ok. How about some jokes now, teacher? Do you know the one about the horse that....

(A day in the life of an educator.)

[Too Tall]

I just fixed a similar problem on a shimano-equipped bike. I ended up changing out cassette, chain, etc, reinstalling everything, but the problem persisted. I think finally it was a single short strand of cable that had broken free from the rest of the cable near the lever, and was jamming things up just a little, but it was so minute I didn't notice when lubing the cable.

anyway, I replaced the cable, and now it works good as new.

Michael, a dab of lithium grease on the cable end (the lever end) can delay that. I'd say that about 1/2 the bikes I overhaul have a broken strand or more.

Record Record, Recording Recording, Records Records...it's a very difficult language non?

[michael white]

thanks Too Tall, I've been using some sort of Finish Line synthetic. maybe more viscous grease would help.

[Dan Le foot]

I think the biggest problems with the 07 Record group are the prices.
Yikes!
Dan

[Jeff N.]

Record- "Hold up a second. There's a weird noise coming from the rear. I need to make an adjustment. It'll only take a few seconds."

Dura Ace- "C'mon, man! Let's go! You done yet?" Jeff N.

[Serotta PETE]

:no: Not nice to fool with the Italians... :no: Record- "Hold up a second. There's a weird noise coming from the rear. I need to make an adjustment. It'll only take a few seconds."

Dura Ace- "C'mon, man! Let's go! You done yet?" Jeff N.