My experience with Enigma

[Sam Walker]

The bike in question was purchased in 2011 and had not quite made it to its 10th birthday.

I'm going to start by sharing two links which flesh out the story to follow:
A Crack in the Dream (https://road.cc/content/blog/209885-crack-dream)
An open letter to Jim Walker at Enigma Bikes (https://jollygoodthen-75205.medium.com/an-open-letter-to-jim-walker-at-enigma-bikes-4397e40da988)

Next the pictures, which I reckon are worth at least 1000 words each. Note that they go backwards in time.

The first three show the devastation to the bottom bracket area. This happened on May 11th, nearly throwing me onto the road.

https://i.imgur.com/lFkvIq1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fk0GnAi.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/NfHVlIQ.jpg

This next one is the dropout which gave way in November 2020.

https://i.imgur.com/sVJoAkO.jpg

Finally we have the bottom bracket again, circa 2016.

https://i.imgur.com/0wmKeGm.jpg

I'm a roadie, but nothing close to a racer. I don't ride my bikes hard. Don't have a computer or keep track of mileage, but my best guess is this one clocked up 40k miles. It could be more, it could even be a fair amount less: I just don't know. It was my 'Sunday best', though I took it out every chance I could, my average spin being around 20 miles, with longer rides (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2019/aug/05/carpe-noctem-joy-cycling-through-night-ride-coast) thrown in. I've got two other road bikes that get out in poor weather. Here they are all lined up, including the pipsqueak folder I use for London.

https://i.imgur.com/z6cqioM.jpg

I absolutely loved that bike, and talked up Enigma all the time. I was pleased to be able to recommend a local company.

When the BB cracked in '16, it was repaired rather than replaced. This concerned me at the time, as detailed in the link up top, but I was assured it would be fine, and in any case had no say in the matter.

When the dropout gave way last year it was again repaired.

Finally, true disaster struck: not just the frame catastrophically failing, but irreparable damage to my relationship with the company. They refused to do any more repairs under the lifetime warranty this was sold to me with. (Note their terms have since changed to 10 years and a Lifetime Loyalty scheme.) I was informed that it'd had a good run, and a decade is a reasonable lifespan. By their frequent recitation of ways to abuse a frame, I was left with the strong impression that they were pointing the finger at me for the cracks.

To add insult to injury, as far as I was concerned, I was told £600 could buy me a replacement frame. This was presented as a fantastic bargain, considering a retail price of several multiples of that. Although some have told me they think this is fair (most say they'd just sell it on), I remain flabbergasted and wholly unwilling to give them more money. Haven't I suffered enough?

I'm no metallurgist, but it's my opinion that the frame should've been replaced after the first failure, which led to its eventual demise.

I tried to deal with this privately but got nowhere, which is why I've posted here and elsewhere. (https://www.bikeforums.net/22068219-post32.html) I'm not expecting justice, nice at that would be, but if my account nudges even one framebuilder to up their game, that would be a little victory.

[weisan]

Sam pal, sorry for your loss and grievances.

I would be curious to hear from framebuilding folks that work with titanium regularly what could possibly have led to the failure of your frame, they looked catastrophic and the equivalent of death by blunt force.

[XXtwindad]

Well, you’ve articulated your (justifiable) gripes very well. I’m assuming you’ve exhausted all the other available channels before posting here.

Since this is your first post, welcome to the Forum. It does leave the impression that you joined for the express purpose of bashing Enigma.

[Russity]

Hey Sam.

If you got your bike directly from Enigma in Hailsham, it might be worth taking the frame along to let Geoff Roberts have a look at it and give you his oppinion? Considering he is literally just down the road (Boreham Road)?

I know he's not specifically a Ti frame builder, but he can surely give you his thoughts?

Best of luck with getting some kind of resolution with it.

http://www.geoffrobertsframes.co.uk/

[peanutgallery]

Ten years of use, two freebie repairs and 600 for a new one? Enigma is doing right by you. Crack open that wallet and get another. You should have no complaints

Great time to pick up disc, thru axle and tire clearance

[nmrt]

i was at the trek dealer buying a checkpoint. they were proud of trek's lifetime warranty. told me that they just warrantied a frame from a customer who had bought a trek 25 years ago. now that is a warranty.

screw enigma. dont "crack" up your wallet and let slip those 600 bills.

[Sam Walker]

Thanks weisan. I would also like to hear from framebuilding folks.

XXtwindad - "bashing" and "justifiable" don't quite go together in my book, at least as your post has been formulated. A thesaurus may yield worthier alternatives. I do appreciate the welcome though.

Russity - I'll look into it, cheers.

peanutgallery - compliments on your username.

nmrt - 850ish bills if you're on the other side of the pond.

[Matthew]

No f ing way I'd shell out more money on a bike from them. They should have replaced the frame. Multiple breaks and he's supposed to buy another? Can't wait for the builders here to chime in. Is Ti repairable, meaning is it safe to weld in the same area multiple times? "Sorry our frame failed multiple times, here's a great deal on a new one." Fu*k that.

[54ny77]

Freebie repairs?

Man anything remotely like that stuff is an outright replacement. Free.

Don't know anything about enigma, but I have a pal with a ti Spectrum, for example, that's got at least 2x those miles and has only needed a repaint.

Am sick of this "omerta" of boutique builders. Folks online S&%@! all over a big box brand like Specialized, for example, and even vitriol for Serotta (but for the designs and company missteps, never the fab quality), but heaven forbid some boutique builder get called out for crap product or lousy customer service.

[nmrt]

the number of bills dont matter.
it is the principle of it. and not even a fake apology from them? wow. now, that is stunning! not to mention that the frame cracked. thrice!

i had almost emailed enigma to make me their Ego mtb frame. but i heard something "bad" about them from a forum member here. never did place that order with them. went with an engin instead. supremely happy.



Thanks weisan. I would also like to hear from framebuilding folks.

XXtwindad - "bashing" and "justifiable" don't quite go together in my book, at least as your post has been formulated. A thesaurus may yield worthier alternatives. I do appreciate the welcome though.

Russity - I'll look into it, cheers.

peanutgallery - compliments on your username.

nmrt - 850ish bills if you're on the other side of the pond.

[XXtwindad]

Thanks weisan. I would also like to hear from framebuilding folks.

XXtwindad - "bashing" and "justifiable" don't quite go together in my book, at least as your post has been formulated. A thesaurus may yield worthier alternatives. I do appreciate the welcome though.

Russity - I'll look into it, cheers.

peanutgallery - compliments on your username.

nmrt - 850ish bills if you're on the other side of the pond.

Artful parry. I admire your perseverance :)

[Sam Walker]

the number of bills dont matter.

I know, I was just providing a handy foreign exchange information service.

it is the principle of it.

Ex-ac-ta-ly

and not even a fake apology from them?

Mate (as even blokes call other blokes over here), you're making me tear up now. You don't know how many links I've provided over the years that people can't be bothered to dip into before replying. I may just name my firstborn after you. Will need to know what nmrt stands for first.

Artful parry.

Practice makes perfect, or close enough.

[nmrt]

dont. your firstborn will hate you for it.
nmrt = nuclear magnetic resonance. added the "t" because "nmr" was taken. ;)

I know, I was just providing a handy foreign exchange information service.



Ex-ac-ta-ly



Mate (as even blokes call other blokes over here), you're making me tear up now. You don't know how many links I've provided over the years that people can't be bothered to dip into before replying. I may just name my firstborn after you. Will need to know what nmrt stands for first.



Practice makes perfect, or close enough.

[Sam Walker]

I admire your perseverance :)

I hope to be able to sleep one day soon.

nmrt = nuclear magnetic resonance

Ah; I've used their imaging.

https://i.imgur.com/pdJlO60.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oS9zoqE.jpg

[vespasianus]

So, a question to the builders if they are here; all the cracks look to be in the welds. Given this is a titanium frame, does that imply a manufacturing defect from the start?

[oldpotatoe]

Ten years of use, two freebie repairs and 600 for a new one? Enigma is doing right by you. Crack open that wallet and get another. You should have no complaints

Great time to pick up disc, thru axle and tire clearance

When I first looked at the pix, I 'assumed' this was an aluminum frame..and every break at the welds and if titanium:eek:, then oxygen contamination was the first thing I thought of. BUT, 'lifetime warranty', then not. A decent company, looking at their sale records, would honor frames sold before they changed their policy. BUT, yup, the guy has EVERY reason to complain and not be happy. The $ means nothing. Enigma is covering their ($) butts while selling crappola frames.

[vespasianus]

When I first looked at the pix, I 'assumed' this was an aluminum frame..and every break at the welds and if titanium:eek:, then oxygen contamination was the first thing I thought of. BUT, 'lifetime warranty', then not. A decent company, looking at their sale records, would honor frames sold before they changed their policy. BUT, yup, the guy has EVERY reason to complain and not be happy. The $ means nothing. Enigma is covering their ($) butts while selling crappola frames.

That is pretty much what I thought. I have only warranted a single frame and it was an old specialized (aluminum frame) that cracked at the weld. This was years ago and the dealer basically said if the crack is in the weld, it was a manufacturing defect.

The multiple failures all over this frame, all in welds, seems to imply that Enigma had some issues when the built this frame.

[eurodude]

Is the frame one of the UK made frames or Taiwan made?

[bicycletricycle]

I would be interested to here enigmas side of the story, Not sure what I would here from them but I would be interested anyways.

Please don't take this as a personal insult but when people go on these internet vendettas I am always suspicious.

While being disappointed I think I would have purchased the new frame for the reduced price.

[unterhausen]

I understand the OP's frustration. He needs to clean his bike more often so he can see any cracks when they are smaller. Cracks don't get that bad very quickly


I think the guy from the other day that wanted to start a bike frame business should read this thread and reflect on how he would pay for a new frame for his customer if that eventuality occurs.

[peanutgallery]

Life is too short to complain on the internet about a bike you bought 10 years ago. It was a first post, BTW. Just buy the replacement, inject it into the market at a handsome profit and go buy something else. That'll show 'em

If rim brakes and QRs were still a thing for them they might have set you up with a new one. In this day and age, a replacement frame can be a blessing and a curse. You'll end up buying all kinds of parts because several things have become "standard" over the last decade. Enigma is fulfilling their end of warranty with a nominal replacement fee

Now for a thread shift...can you guys take Prince Harry back?

[Blown Reek]

That first "repair" is absolutely horrible, half-assed and embarrassing, and it failed after only five (!) years. If a frame builder sent that to me as their "fix", I'd be completely bummed out. And then another major problem four years later? And then the lucky third recently and getting ghosted? That's unacceptable.

It's not like the guy's the second owner or anything that people around here have gripes about ("Enve didn't honor their lifetime warranty on the wheels I got, even though I got them through eBay and they've the first generation and I'm nowhere close to the original owner but they should be quality and they should stand behind it, right?!") - he's the original owner who had major problems starting at year 5. And forget about the "lifetime" part... he should have been given a new frame at the first issue. That was at the five-year mark, but instead of a proper fix, a hokey, unaesthetically pleasing bandaid was applied.

Oof.

And for everyone that's up in arms about how old the bike is- the first issue was at year 5! Go back and see the collective disapproval here on this board regarding framebuilders that don't get commissioned because they might have only a five-year warranty. Here it's "lifetime or nothing", especially when it comes to "forever" titanium bikes.

Good on the OP for stirring the hornet's nest, even if it's his first post. Selfishly, I can't wait to see how this resolves.

[brewsmith]

Regardless of the way this bike was used, as an owner (especially the original) I'd never touch the brand again. I have had several second/third/etc hand bikes from reputable builders that have been rock solid and with better support without justification. That many failures within ten years is way out of the realm of acceptable quality IMHO.

Edit: also, basically everything @Blown Reek says

[rwsaunders]

There’s an Enigma rep that posts here...he might be able to help you if you send him a PM. Not sure that taking the story here and at VSalon as essentially a first poster is good for street cred, but the photos don’t paint a nice picture for any frame. Good luck with your journey.

[Matthew]

To those suggesting he take the "generous offer " of buying another frame from them, would you? Even if he sells it? I wouldn't give them another dime. It broke at 5 years!! And then again later at a dropout. And then Again at the bullsh*t first repair. And then they basically tell him to kiss off. But sure, here's another $600 of my hard earned money for something that may fail tomorrow.

[Matt92037]

I think Enigma didnt recognize that the argon tank was empty when that frame was welded. :)

Now that this story is on every major bike forum I shudder to think how many future sales Enigma just lost.

Something was off the day that frame was welded. I was just be thankful the headtube is still intact

[Big Dan]

That's a bad deal.

[reuben]

To those suggesting he take the "generous offer " of buying another frame from them, would you? Even if he sells it? I wouldn't give them another dime.

We're only getting one side of the story, but the pics and story don't look good at all.

Assuming that we have a reasonably accurate account, both written and visual, I wouldn't take a new frame for myself even at a discounted price, nor would I buy one and knowingly foist it on an unsuspecting buyer.

[tuscanyswe]

I think Enigma didnt recognize that the argon tank was empty when that frame was welded. :)

Now that this story is on every major bike forum I shudder to think how many future sales Enigma just lost.

Something was off the day that frame was welded. I was just be thankful the headtube is still intact

This is what makes it even weirder for me. Why would they risk getting attention over a frame they did poorly a decade ago over 600 gbp? Its just not worth it from a business perspective.

Noone is on all the bike forums telling ppl over and over how great their frame is holding up without cracks after 10 years but they should know damn well that there is a big risk that someone whos frame cracked 3 times might just go online and tell the world.

Most businesses make a bad product from time to time and should have enough cash on hand to eat that cost in order to avoid threads like this and make their customers happy with the product and warrenty they bought.

Providing we have most of the story correct here it just seems like such a poor decision for all involved.

[peanutgallery]

Hells yeah, and I would sell it immediately. Not here, eBay, pros closet or whatever

It's a bike, not a corner gas station with a leaky tank and a million dead car batteries buried under the lot

Potentially, enigma may have learned something in a decade and the bike will be fine. There's always optimism.

To those suggesting he take the "generous offer " of buying another frame from them, would you? Even if he sells it? I wouldn't give them another dime. It broke at 5 years!! And then again later at a dropout. And then Again at the bullsh*t first repair. And then they basically tell him to kiss off. But sure, here's another $600 of my hard earned money for something that may fail tomorrow.

[Matt92037]

Enigma weighed in with this response on a different forum. Not super helpful….

Enigma
Whilst we won’t comment on individual cases we would like to re-iterate our position on warranty to original owners. If within the warranty period or lifespan of one of our frames we see evidence of manufacturing or material defects that has then caused a failure, we will undertake a repair or offer a replacement. It is important to realise that the expected life of a product is not always a quantifiable thing. If a frame has had an especially tough life, been ridden hard, crashed, abused or used contrary to its intended use then its lifespan can be greatly reduced. In these circumstances we will extend an offer under our crash replacement schemeand in certain cases we will go beyond this. We pride ourselves on our customer service and stand by our products. Full terms and conditions can be found on our website.


We're only getting one side of the story, but the pics and story don't look good at all.

Assuming that we have a reasonably accurate account, both written and visual, I wouldn't take a new frame for myself even at a discounted price, nor would I buy one and knowingly foist it on an unsuspecting buyer.

[woolly]

To those suggesting he take the "generous offer " of buying another frame from them, would you? Even if he sells it? I wouldn't give them another dime. It broke at 5 years!! And then again later at a dropout. And then Again at the bullsh*t first repair. And then they basically tell him to kiss off. But sure, here's another $600 of my hard earned money for something that may fail tomorrow.

Actually, this is exactly what I would do. I would invest the $600, get a brand new frame, and then be completely *done* with them. I would then take that brand new frame (unbuilt & unridden) and sell it. I would then dial up Steve Hampsten, or Carl Strong, or Mike Zanconato (or if a somewhat larger operation desired, Moots), and have a great-riding frame from a skilled & reputable builder, at the least net cost possible.

Looking at this as objectively as one can, what other alternative leaves the OP more "whole" than this (since it's been made clear a replacement frame would not be provided no-cost)? Alas, based on the read here, the ship may have sailed on this being an available option.

[Peter P.]

Enigma's reply was all legal dodging.

Send them links to all the threads created as a result of Sam's bad experience.

Then Sam, go buy something else.

[p nut]

Actually, this is exactly what I would do. I would invest the $600, get a brand new frame, and then be completely *done* with them. I would then take that brand new frame (unbuilt & unridden) and sell it.

Fiscally speaking, this makes the most sense. But I don’t think I could do it on principle.

dont. your firstborn will hate you for it.
nmrt = nuclear magnetic resonance. added the "t" because "nmr" was taken. ;)

My father was a analytical chemist/professor. I remember going into his lab when I was a kid and looking at the giant machines. Had to take off my Casio G Shock watch every time I went in.

[Sam Walker]

Thanks for all the replies. I do realise how it can look when you’re a first time poster. I’ve been on various forums for a long time, but yes, The Paceline is new to me.

It’s hard for a stranger to establish credentials to give a better feel for their trustworthiness. If it helps:

I’ve been writing about cycling since the late 90s, though admittedly in a niche way. I had columns in a couple of national magazines, and have also written the odd piece for UK newspapers (exhibits A (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational-cycling/11005693/Should-we-segregate-cyclists-and-drivers.html) and B (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2006/mar/09/news.comment)).

Years ago I started an archive of cycling articles (now set in aspic here (http://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/bikereader/BikeReader.html)), and managed to get permission from all kinds of authors to reprint their stuff, including Richard Ballantine and our current prime minister. Once upon a time I got Sheldon Brown to register and post on a forum I used to run. For a little while I worked with Guy Andrews, who would later go on to be founding editor of Rouleur magazine. That’s about the limit of the names I can drop.

None of this is to brag. I have not had a major career in the cycling world. I possess no great technical expertise, but have been around enough people who do so that more than a little was bound to have rubbed off.

For the most part I am my own mechanic. I’m usually pretty good at diagnosing noises. I’ve swapped out bottom brackets beyond counting.

Finally, there’s my rabbit as a character witness.

https://i.imgur.com/2hNyGCb.jpg

There is a kind of character in thy life, that to the observer doth thy history, fully unfold
(Both Chompsky and I will admit to only nibbling Shakespeare.)

Enigma weighed in with this response on a different forum. Not super helpful….

A copy of my dissection (https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?p=1608224#p1608224) of their response. See also downthread on that site.

I did tell them that I wouldn’t be staying quiet. I don’t think they took me seriously.

[soulspinner]

Actually, this is exactly what I would do. I would invest the $600, get a brand new frame, and then be completely *done* with them. I would then take that brand new frame (unbuilt & unridden) and sell it. I would then dial up Steve Hampsten, or Carl Strong, or Mike Zanconato (or if a somewhat larger operation desired, Moots), and have a great-riding frame from a skilled & reputable builder, at the least net cost possible.

Looking at this as objectively as one can, what other alternative leaves the OP more "whole" than this (since it's been made clear a replacement frame would not be provided no-cost)? Alas, based on the read here, the ship may have sailed on this being an available option.

This was my first thought as well. I noticed Carl, whom I bought a steel foco from in 2003 has taken to only warrantying butted ti frames for 5 years, I believe. Hampsten doesnt offer butted ti on the website.

[rallizes]

Freebie repairs?

Man anything remotely like that stuff is an outright replacement. Free.

Don't know anything about enigma, but I have a pal with a ti Spectrum, for example, that's got at least 2x those miles and has only needed a repaint.

Am sick of this "omerta" of boutique builders. Folks online S&%@! all over a big box brand like Specialized, for example, and even vitriol for Serotta (but for the designs and company missteps, never the fab quality), but heaven forbid some boutique builder get called out for crap product or lousy customer service.

thread was closed across the hall

[weaponsgrade]

Enigma’s response seems cut and pasted from every other corporation that tries to shift blame onto the consumer when their product fails unreasonably. None of those failures look like crash damage to this arm chair metallurgist. Enigma should’ve stepped up at year 5 and done a proper repair or replace.

[Jeff N.]

I wouldn't demand a repair or replace.....I'd demand a complete refund! But...good luck with that.

[prototoast]

I have mixed feelings on this, though most of them could have been solved if Enigma just say they offered a 5 year warranty instead of "lifetime."

First, the fact that it's cracking in both the dropout and the bottom bracket sure seems like there was a manufacturing issue.

On the other hand, I personally consider any bike I own to be fully depreciated after about 20,000 miles, so other than their claims of a "lifetime" warranty, I don't think I'd be terribly upset by a bike being scrap by 40,000 miles.

I currently own an Enigma Esprit that I bought second hand. I've only put a few hundred miles on it since I got it, but it seems to be a good bike. Well-constructed, and rides well too. I paid more than 600 gbp for it used, and considered that a fair price. I can understand frustration with the company over their warranty that didn't live up to expectations, but I don't see any reason not to take a cheap frame and sell it for a small profit. Any second-hand buyer wouldn't expect a lifetime warranty anyway.

[bking]

This was my first thought as well. I noticed Carl, whom I bought a steel foco from in 2003 has taken to only warrantying butted ti frames for 5 years, I believe. Hampsten doesnt offer butted ti on the website.

5 years is a solid warranty. Carl's a smart man, great builder.

[R3awak3n]

The whole bike warranty thing is a problem in this industry and a lot of bike companies. You have companies that actually stick by the warranty and will do anything to make the customer happy, then you have the companies that don't and warranty (be it lifetime or extended or even just normal warranty) means absolutely nothing. They offer these long warranties so that you feel ok spending thousands on a frame or bike, you think hey, why not buy this new bike since I feel safe that anything happens I will be covered, however what happens is just anything they will blame the customer and it will be what it is since what happened was caused by something u did.

But you live and learn, you will eventually deal with a company that will stand by their warranty and you will buy from them an stop buying from the one that blamed you for the problem.

[flying]

Fiscally speaking, this makes the most sense. But I don’t think I could do it on principle.


About giving them $600 then selling I agree on both principle & fairness to next customer.
If this is how their bikes hold up I wouldn't want to pass the headache of dealing with this type of warranty on to another

No instead I would call it done & scrap it or even pay a competent welder to fix it.

But yes they would see no more $$$ from me....kick me once shame on you.. kick me twice shame on me ;)

[peanutgallery]

I'd say this one is done, too

The builder has passed (rip), the company has changed hands and the current owner has provided a viable option. Take it and ride off into the sunset. If your principles paralyze that concept, then that'll cost you way more than the 600. But if that's important to you... you do you, it's only $. Most of us will be worm dirt in 30 to 40 years

thread was closed across the hall

[cnighbor1]

Ti welding if not done bathed in Argon gas oxygen in the air gets into the weld and causes Ti to become brittle and fail
Sure looks like that happened to yours

[DRZRM]

I gotta say, I'm struck by your investment in a "lifetime" warranty being no such thing. I have a 25-year-old Serotta Legend, and if it breaks, it would go quietly into a dumpster, I loved the bike, hell I love the bike, but I have gotten more than my money's worth from it. However, if I spent money with a builder who uses (or used) a lifetime guarantee in their sales promotion, then they should stick by their word.

If I'd ridden it for 10 hard years and it developed a crack, I'd take the deal and get a new one at cost, Chris Chance did that for me when I broke a 4 year old Wicked in 1993, no hard feelings at all.

But that bike has obviously been a problem from the start. Three...THREE! cracks at the welds, we all know properly built TI frames don't do that, TI tubes don't do that, and they didn't in this case. In 2016 the owner should have recognized that their original welder either overheated the tubes or didn't purge the oxygen in the tubes, or both, and been happy to get that frame off the road without a serious injury.

When the dropout came back cracked at a weld, he had another chance to address the problem. Folks buying custom titanium frames are generally forgoing the lightest possible bike for their dollar for the tradeoff of durability (along with a very nice ride if properly engineered).

The company owner missed the chance to make a problem in the company right, twice by trying to repair a clearly faulty frame, and a third time by pretending that riding in a city with potholes should lead to frame failure in a decade (actually in 5 years). I assume that they have rectified these issues, they enjoy a pretty good reputation from what I'd heard before today. These discussions are terrible for a company. This bike was obviously an issue from the start. I wouldn't have taken a new bike from them for anything but free.

Ten years of use, two freebie repairs and 600 for a new one? Enigma is doing right by you. Crack open that wallet and get another. You should have no complaints

Great time to pick up disc, thru axle and tire clearance

[XXtwindad]

I'd say this one is done, too

The builder has passed (rip), the company has changed hands and the current owner has provided a viable option. Take it and ride off into the sunset. If your principles paralyze that concept, then that'll cost you way more than the 600. But if that's important to you... you do you, it's only $. Most of us will be worm dirt in 30 to 40 years

Inevitably, yes. Looks to be the OP’s “raison d’etre.” Seems to be a skilled writer, though. It would be a shame if this was his sole contribution to the site.

[rallizes]

I just don’t understand closing threads in general

[echappist]

The company owner missed the chance to make a problem in the company right, twice by trying to repair a clearly faulty frame, and a third time by pretending that riding in a city with potholes should lead to frame failure in a decade (actually in 5 years). I assume that they have rectified these issues, they enjoy a pretty good reputation from what I'd heard before today. These discussions are terrible for a company. This bike was obviously an issue from the start. I wouldn't have taken a new bike from them for anything but free.

One key lede that has been buried in this current initial post is the fact that the OP acknowledged that the tubes were not sourced from Enigma. Enigma only welded the tubes but did not source the tubes.

The OP provided the following photo in his thread across-the-hall: that of the tubes of which he was in possession.

https://i.imgur.com/zaM1Mw6.jpg

Workmanship is necessary but insufficient element to making a quality frame: quality of the individual components sourced is also of importance. The fact that the original welder allegedly provided lifetime warranty on this frame aside, I would doubt that any frame builder would want to provide warranty of any sort on a product where s/he was not in control of the procurement process.

[XXtwindad]

thread was closed across the hall

Not generally a fan of them, either (with the exception of “cyclist killed/attacked by... and then I’d favor an actual moratorium). I think the thread would have been more palatable had it been written by a member with more history.

Theoretically, what’s to prevent someone with a gripe against Company X from utilizing the Paceline as a venue for their vendettas, and then disappearing?

Conversely, if anyone is considering buying an Enigma, but has since changed their mind as a result of reading this thread, then I’d have to say it served a purpose.

[Sam Walker]

One key lede that has been buried in this current initial post is the fact that the OP acknowledged that the tubes were not sourced from Enigma. Enigma only welded the tubes but did not source the tubes.

The OP provided the following photo in his thread across-the-hall: that of the tubes of which he was in possession.

https://i.imgur.com/zaM1Mw6.jpg

Workmanship is necessary but insufficient element to making a quality frame: quality of the individual components sourced is also of importance. The fact that the original welder allegedly provided lifetime warranty on this frame aside, I would doubt that any frame builder would want to provide warranty of any sort on a product where s/he was not in control of the procurement process.

No. The tubes were sourced from Enigma, or wherever they get them from. The frame was built in-house. I simply turned up for a photo op one day. That OP was unclear because I was having a little fun with words, which is sure to be my downfall one day.

[Hellgate]

Why it cracked truly is an enigma.

Frames brake, life happens, move on.

I've cracked BB on an SL Pinarello. I had it repaired and it cracked again, sold it. I cracked a BB on a Schwinn Madison track bike. Had that one repaired and sold it. I cracked a Bianchi Tenex frame, trashed that one. However, I never broke any of the GT mountain bikes.

OP, go find a new and shiny bike you love and have fun!

[XXtwindad]

One key lede that has been buried in this current initial post is the fact that the OP acknowledged that the tubes were not sourced from Enigma. Enigma only welded the tubes but did not source the tubes.

The OP provided the following photo in his thread across-the-hall: that of the tubes of which he was in possession.

https://i.imgur.com/zaM1Mw6.jpg

Workmanship is necessary but insufficient element to making a quality frame: quality of the individual components sourced is also of importance. The fact that the original welder allegedly provided lifetime warranty on this frame aside, I would doubt that any frame builder would want to provide warranty of any sort on a product where s/he was not in control of the procurement process.

That certainly might change the equation. Where were the tubes from? So, according to the shuttered thread, the OP purchased some tubes and had Enigma weld them?

Edit: OK. Question answered.

[Sam Walker]

I'd say this one is done, too

The builder has passed (rip), the company has changed hands

Also no. Mark Reilly

https://i.imgur.com/YW4RjZ0.jpg

moved on to his own company, but Enigma still has its founder.

[rallizes]

One key lede that has been buried in this current initial post is the fact that the OP acknowledged that the tubes were not sourced from Enigma. Enigma only welded the tubes but did not source the tubes.

The OP provided the following photo in his thread across-the-hall: that of the tubes of which he was in possession.

https://i.imgur.com/zaM1Mw6.jpg

Workmanship is necessary but insufficient element to making a quality frame: quality of the individual components sourced is also of importance. The fact that the original welder allegedly provided lifetime warranty on this frame aside, I would doubt that any frame builder would want to provide warranty of any sort on a product where s/he was not in control of the procurement process.

I don't believe that is correct

[tuscanyswe]

One key lede that has been buried in this current initial post is the fact that the OP acknowledged that the tubes were not sourced from Enigma. Enigma only welded the tubes but did not source the tubes.

The OP provided the following photo in his thread across-the-hall: that of the tubes of which he was in possession.

https://i.imgur.com/zaM1Mw6.jpg

Workmanship is necessary but insufficient element to making a quality frame: quality of the individual components sourced is also of importance. The fact that the original welder allegedly provided lifetime warranty on this frame aside, I would doubt that any frame builder would want to provide warranty of any sort on a product where s/he was not in control of the procurement process.

Edit never mind seems that the above post is incorrect and that the tubes were sources and supplied for like usual by enigma themselves.

[Sam Walker]

Frames brake, life happens, move on... go find a new and shiny bike you love and have fun!

Not all of us have limitless funds to just "move on" to the next shiny thing. I will, however, endeavour to continue to have fun. (https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/364078/)

[jkbrwn]

Was wondering if you'd posted this on LFGSS. You'll get more traction there than here given enigma are UK based. If my Seven cracked like this I'd absolutely expect a new frame and I totally understand why you're pissed. Enigma are totally in the wrong in every imaginable way IMO. Especially at the year five mark.

[echappist]

No. The tubes were sourced from Enigma, or wherever they get them from. The frame was built in-house. I simply turned up for a photo op one day. That OP was unclear because I was having a little fun with words, which is sure to be my downfall one day.

"The beginning" as written in your post ATH (https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/sad-thread-my-enigma-dead-55998.html)indicates the first relevant event in your purchase/contracting with Enigma. And in this case, what those words conveyed was that you were in possession of the tubes before you reached out to Enigma. If other event(s) of relevance preceded your procurement of the tubes, why write it this way?

You, being a Brit, are presumably much more well versed in British history than I. So perhaps you don't need me to remind you that "having fun with words" when prosecuting your case is not as important as conveying the relevant facts accurately and clearly, whether on some internet forum or in a court of law. Some really witty dude was apparently unaware of this when he prosecuted a trial, and though his drôle repartees drew laughter, they were not persuasive.

[rallizes]

@jkbrwn

That’s just about the polar opposite take of Richard Sachs btw

I prefer yours

[XXtwindad]

Not all of us have limitless funds to just "move on" to the next shiny thing. I will, however, endeavour to continue to have fun. (https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/364078/)

Sam, I see the genesis of a really gripping movie here. Full of intrigue, lies, deception, and a dogged quest for justice. You have posted on a least four (five? six?) forums, but those seem like paltry outlets for such an egregious crime.

Go “Full Monty” and write the screenplay!

[Sam Walker]

It would be a shame if this was his sole contribution to the site.

Cheers. I'll have a good look around. The vBulletin isn't a headache, which is a big bonus. Incidentally, it took much longer than expected for the registration process to complete, but that's probably a good thing.

"The beginning" as written in your post ATH (https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/sad-thread-my-enigma-dead-55998.html)indicates the first relevant event in your purchase/contracting with Enigma. And in this case, what those words conveyed was that you were in possession of the tubes before you reached out to Enigma. If other event(s) of relevance preceded your procurement of the tubes, why write it this way?

You, being a Brit, are presumably much more well versed in British history than I. So perhaps you don't need me to remind you that "having fun with words" when prosecuting your case is not as important as conveying the relevant facts accurately and clearly, whether on some internet forum or in a court of law. Some really witty dude was apparently unaware of this when he prosecuted a trial, and though his drôle repartees drew laughter, they were not persuasive.

Congratulations: you have very nearly reduced me to OH FOR GOD'S SAKE. But I am a polite chap (actually born in Ohio) and shall persevere.

If you have a look here on my own site (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=3234.0), which is serving as my HQ for this operation, you'll see a list of all the places I've posted. If you visit each one, you'll observe that the OPs are all a bit different. This is because I am a writer, and generally prefer composing to copying & pasting. There are only so many ways to tell this story. VS looked quirky, so that's the direction I took there.

On that note, I hope the mods won't mind my issuing an invite to any interested parties to have a gander at Not Another Cycling Forum, which is not in any way shape or form competition to this or any other bike forum. (The clue is in the name.) At last count there are over 500 members. Full disclosure: almost all of them are me (which is one way of dressing up tumbleweeds). We even have a library. (https://www.notanothercyclingforum.net/index.php?topic=2008.msg12547#msg12547)

Sam, I see the genesis of a really gripping movie here. Full of intrigue, lies, deception, and a dogged quest for justice. You have posted on a least four (five? six?) forums, but those seem like paltry outlets for such an egregious crime.

Go “Full Monty” and write the screenplay!

This affair is providing an abudance of grist for the mill. You'd better believe I have plans. Probably not a screenplay though.

[e-RICHIE]

O @jkbrwn

That’s just about the polar opposite take of Richard Sachs btw

I prefer yours

I beg your pardon.

[Hellgate]

Not all of us have limitless funds to just "move on" to the next shiny thing. I will, however, endeavour to continue to have fun. (https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/364078/)Um, it did break six years ago.

Or troll this forum for smokin' deals.

[jkbrwn]

@jkbrwn

That’s just about the polar opposite take of Richard Sachs btw

I prefer yours

Well, I haven't read the thread on vSalon, but ATMO (see what I did there?) a lifetime warranty against workmanship defects is just that, and a crack at a weld, to me, points to a workmanship problem. It doesn't help that their warranty wording is incredibly fluffy. Other brands, by comparison, are incredibly verbose, so I feel like Enigma really are hiding behind their fluff here.

I think they'll regret this, because even if they make things right with Mr Walker, the damage has been done.

[Andy340]

I have a Lynsey (R330) that developed a crack in non drive side chain stay approx 5 yo. Bike repaired under ‘lifetime warranty’ and no issues since. Overall great frame and now over 10 yo. If it has another issue, I have no expectation of a replacement frame /free repair etc. A heavily discounted replacement would be more than generous from my perspective, but if I was told the bike had exceeded its reasonable ‘lifetime’ that would be reasonable enough to me. Others mileage may vary.

I am confident that if I approached them and was open to options other than free replacement frames/repairs until I could no longer ride, they would be reasonable too. That is just speculation on my part though.

[Bruce K]

This feels like the proverbial dead horse.

It’s been discussed on multiple sites and now here

Time to move on

BK