Utility at NAHBS - A Fool's Paradise?

[SimonC]

I've been looking through the photos from NAHBS, and there's some beautiful stuff on display. I'm also heartened by the increase in the number of utility bikes being shown, with integrated racks and fenders.

However, this raises an issue an industry friend and I were debating the other evening. Utility bikes are, by and large, going to be used and abused. Commuter bikes need the ability to be locked up on the street without being stolen or damaged.

Whilst the bikes on display are lovely, I'd be deeply hesitant about riding one to work unless I had somewhere safe to store it at either end, which somewhat invalidates the purpose of having a workhorse bike.

Thoughts?

[Too Tall]

Nothing personal but why own a bike for utility purposes if you don't USE IT!!!

I have a vanilla that I beat the cr@p out of at Deerfield Dirt Rando and will continue doing so. If I had an Bespoke city / utility bike made for me I'd do the same...that's what locks are for.

You can not stop a determined thief. Sounds like you have a moral dilema not a bike problem. xxoo

[J.Greene]

In some cases yes and some no. Why drive anything nicer than a honda civic to work if utility is the only point. My opinion about these super nice utility bikes from NAHBS is that I enjoyed seeing(in pictures) what was possible and not what was profitable or practical.

JG


I've been looking through the photos from NAHBS, and there's some beautiful stuff on display. I'm also heartened by the increase in the number of utility bikes being shown, with integrated racks and fenders.

However, this raises an issue an industry friend and I were debating the other evening. Utility bikes are, by and large, going to be used and abused. Commuter bikes need the ability to be locked up on the street without being stolen or damaged.

Whilst the bikes on display are lovely, I'd be deeply hesitant about riding one to work unless I had somewhere safe to store it at either end, which somewhat invalidates the purpose of having a workhorse bike.

Thoughts?

[djg]

Well, it's just not so that commuter bikes necessarily get locked up outside--mine goes into a warm, dry, and secure bike room, where it gets locked ot a rack. If it gets locked up outside for 15 or 20 while I'm running an errand, it'll live. And if it gets a bit dirty, so be it. I try to keep the drivetrain clean, and sometimes I actually wash the bike. I've got nothing against beaters--more power to their riders for making a situation and a well used piece of equipment work for them. But riding too and from work -- and loops thrown in along the way -- represents a good deal of my weekly riding. I prefer to do it on a bike that I like.

As for the cost--the money is what it is. For some folks, 200 bucks is way beyond any reasonable budget constraint; for some, 10k is pocket change. A custom Vanilla (don't own one myself) with custom made racks is likely still a lot cheaper than a bare-bones honda civic.

[catulle]

Bicycle = Frame + Components + Wheels. Communter/beater custom frame = Ti frame (?). Components and wheels = another realm (?). Kind'a spaced out today.

[michael white]

My collection of bikes is fairly modest compared to many here, but it's likely the nicest in town here (in all honesty). But, what I notice, is that I'm only aware of how nice a bike is if I'm riding it. When it's in my attic, I kind of forget about it. I know there are some who put bikes up like paintings, but for me, that doesn't work. They aren't really in my life till I ride them. So I don't mind the chips and stuff. It's better that way.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . these bikes are beautiful, but by their very nature as handmade pieces of rolling art, they are EXPENSIVE. That's the deciding factor for me. If I'm going to put together a utility or commuter bike, the very LAST thing I'm going to do is commission a handmade piece of art. I'm going to get a cheap used frame off eBay and put on serviceable but most likely used components except for the drivetrain, where the rigors of grinding grime, road dirt, and grit dictate using the most durable parts available. Then I'm going to ride it, haul with it, chain it to lampposts, and generally use it without worrying about how it gets chipped, scratched, rusted, stolen, or otherwise abused.

I don't mean to denigrate the exceptional craftsmanship of anything at the show. But to me, paying big dollars for a handmade "beater" type bike is no more logical than paying Aston Martin or Maserati to build an exact replica of an '85 Toyota Celica. Just go buy a REAL '85 Celica. Unless you have huge wads of disposable income to burn, which I guess describes the demographic many of these builders cater to anyway.

BBD

[dirtdigger88]

Im with TooTall on this one-

bikes are bikes are bikes-

ride em as such-

Ive had my Kirk in mud- sand and grime . . . its hit the pavement a time or two . . . Ive even had to clean blood off of it!!!!

this summer I intend to slap MTB gearing on it and ride the h*ll out of it at deerfield-

I dont abuse my bike my any means- but I ride it like it was ment to be ridden

anywhere and everywhere

anything less would just be wrong

jason

[J.Greene]

I gave this thread some thought on the way to the office this morning. It's easy to mull topics like these seated in the heated leather seats of my infiniti. The car makes the commute comfortable and enjoyable. The seats are fantastic and all the controls are in the right place. I also very much like the way the infiniti handles, not to mention all the integrated features that makes the car safe and fun. And I won't even describe the storage capacity. I guess I could add those features I like on another beater car, but i really like the integrated approach infiniti took.

JG


. . . these bikes are beautiful, but by their very nature as handmade pieces of rolling art, they are EXPENSIVE. That's the deciding factor for me. If I'm going to put together a utility or commuter bike, the very LAST thing I'm going to do is commission a handmade piece of art. I'm going to get a cheap used frame off eBay and put on serviceable but most likely used components except for the drivetrain, where the rigors of grinding grime, road dirt, and grit dictate using the most durable parts available. Then I'm going to ride it, haul with it, chain it to lampposts, and generally use it without worrying about how it gets chipped, scratched, rusted, stolen, or otherwise abused.

I don't mean to denigrate the exceptional craftsmanship of anything at the show. But to me, paying big dollars for a handmade "beater" type bike is no more logical than paying Aston Martin or Maserati to build an exact replica of an '85 Toyota Celica. Just go buy a REAL '85 Celica. Unless you have huge wads of disposable income to burn, which I guess describes the demographic many of these builders cater to anyway.

BBD

[jthurow]

If the bike you ride most of the time is your utility/commuter/workhorse bike, I can understand how you would want that to be the nicest bike you have. It would suck to have to suffer riding the crappiest bike you own most of the time and break out the nicest bike only on the weekends. Most bikes are made to be used and their use only makes them more special, imho.

Here's a fav city bike of mine in use. Say hi to Dede Barry and her Mariposa City Bike (http://www.mariposabicycles.com/city-bike.html)... mmmm, white tires :rolleyes:
http://www.mariposabicycles.com/images/dede/DSC00698_1-760.jpg

jimi

[davids]

I honestly don't see the difference, in terms of wear and tear, between commuting on a bike and riding a bike strictly for pleasure. Except for the part about chaining it to a parking meter.

Although I do admit the odd hour, now and then, gazing at my bikes, I buy them to ride them.

So, yeah, I'd rather commute on, say, an IF Club Racer with Honjo fenders and a Berthoud bag than on the '96 Fisher Tassajara currently hanging from a hook in my basement.

[fiamme red]

BBD has said it well.

There's a big difference between getting a bike muddy and locking it up on the street where bike thieves can steal it or strip it. I live in the city that Kryptonite named their toughest lock after (NYC). I leave a beater locked up on the street while I'm at work. I also ride it to movies, concerts, shopping, etc., and leave it locked outside with complete peace of mind. Since I depend heavily on my bike for getting around (I don't own a car and rarely take public transportation within the city), if I could only own one bike, it would have to be the beater.

I've been locking bikes on the street for many years, and know very well what attracts thieves. There's no way I'd lock one of those NAHBS bikes outside. And if you can't do that, how can you call it the "ultimate" utility bike?

[obtuse]

if i'm riding a bike for transportation it's because i'm drunk and public transportation isn't running. in this type of instance a true connesieur demands the highest in quality and craftsmanship.

http://sepwww.stanford.edu/sep/jeff/DrunkBiking.jpg


obtuse

[flydhest]

Wow, how many of the people who don't think that nice/expensive bikes are good for commuting or utility actually use a bike for commuting or utility? I commute daily on a Serotta or a Vanilla. Many days, it is my only riding, so why would I want to ride anything less if I own such great bikes? Now, if I was going to leave it outdoors in bad weather in a place where it could get vadalized, perhaps I'd think again, but that might just have me ride a Ti frame (for the weather) and make sure I had it locked well. I do and have locked my bikes outside of coffeeshops and bars for stops on the way home from work. I've locked each of them outside of the grocery store while loading the courier bag with victuals (how often do you get to write that word?).

Life's too short to ride crummy bikes.

edit: saw fiamme's post. There aren't many parts of DC that I would worry about riding my bike, but I suppose if I was going to be inside a theater for 2-3 hours, I might reconsider. Fair point. Nevertheless, for shopping, commuting, and other living, I use my Serottas and Vanilla.

[SimonC]

Wow, how many of the people who don't think that nice/expensive bikes are good for commuting or utility actually use a bike for commuting or utility?

8 miles each way, every day of the week. Through London (England) traffic. I've got a Roberts Audax I brought from eBay that sits at the intersection of price and value for me - cheap enough if it gets stolen I won't be too upset. And it goes from sitting in my hallway to sitting in the loading bay under the building. I rarely lock it anywhere on my way home, and then for no longer than 15-20 minutes.

If I'd worked with a builder to design the ultimate utility bike, and spent $X000 in the process, I'd not want to subject it to the same treatment as I currently mete out to my bike.

[big shanty]

. . .

I don't mean to denigrate the exceptional craftsmanship of anything at the show. But to me, paying big dollars for a handmade "beater" type bike is no more logical than paying Aston Martin or Maserati to build an exact replica of an '85 Toyota Celica. Just go buy a REAL '85 Celica. Unless you have huge wads of disposable income to burn, which I guess describes the demographic many of these builders cater to anyway.

BBD


Is it any more crazy to spend big money on a custom commuter or utility bike that will be used everyday, a lifelong companion bike that promotes a healthy, less-car-heavy existence...than it is for a middle-aged-to-decrepit man or woman who has never raced to spend big change on a custom true race bike that will be used, at most, a couple of hours a week? Yeah, if you have one of those Ahearne mixtes and you lock it to a rack, you're asking for some trouble. I'm not saying I would do that. But I think a nice commuter should be a priority. Paint is just paint. In the cases of a lot of these bikes, yes, it's very nice paint. But it's just paint. Ride in style, i say.

[znfdl]

My commuter(s) get stored in my office with a window that has southern exposure and looks into a spy building. My commuters are a Spectrum Ti, Spectrum Fixie, Lemod propoad and a soon to be plain Vanilla. The bikes don't actually look into the spy building as all of the windows are blacked out ;)

[British]

My commuter(s) get stored in my office with a window that has southern exposure and looks into a spy building. My commuters are a Spectrum Ti, Spectrum Fixie, Lemod propoad and a soon to be plain Vanilla. The bikes don't actually look into the spy building as all of the windows are blacked out ;)

A spy building?

[British]

I understand the sentiment of the opening post of this thread, but ultimately a bike is there to be ridden and well used. There are only so many precautions that can be taken against theft before a bike then starts to become a burden, and that just isn't what cycling is all about.

I use a bike locker in my city when I go shopping, and I do sometimes fret a little when I have to leave it outside shops in certain areas - I have lost saddles and seat posts before ( I had to cycle seven miles home on one occasion without a saddle). If one can't afford to lose a bike one shouldn't really be paying so much for it.

There is also the comfort of insurance. In the UK there is insurance called 'new for old' where a stolen bike would in theory be replaced with a new one at the new price even if the stolen bike was somewhat used. There is also 'old for old' insurance - same everywhere I'm sure. Well, I did have a bike stolen some years ago and the insurance policy was 'new for old' but the company tried to impose an 'old for old' settlement. Eventualy we compromised, but be careful with 'sharp' insurers.

Some of the handmade show bikes look absolutely exquisite, almost too nice to ride. I'm guessing that some really are finished off as 'show' bikes for the wow factor. For me a great utility bike would still be in titanium, but be very understated and discreet with not too many flashy bits and bobs to attract the magpies of this world.

Is it true that Vanilla has a two year waiting list?

[SimonC]

Is it true that Vanilla has a two year waiting list?

See thread '47 Months' - currently running at about 5 years.

Edit: Though I hope he would let you jump the queue the second time if someone stole his first attempt!

[dbrk]

For bike geeks, I think bikes that are really used ultimately reflect our reaction to our particular riding environments, preferences and exigencies. I mean if you have limited or extended time, prefer race bikes or fatter tires, whatever: we ride in different styles that work with environment and "needs." (That's the thesis of this pedantic rumination...stop reading here if reading the works of ruminators, including cows and pundits, makes you cringe. This note suffers from earnestness and an overabundance of self-reflection. But please gimme a break: it is minus 2 degrees today, will likely not get much warmer for a good long while, I need a ride, and I am not manly enough to ride when it's this cold. Trust me, it's cold. Plus, I need to procrastinate since I have to finish a serious academic paper for a conference and type really fast...way faster than I ride.)

I love city bikes, porteurs, utility bikes and the resurgence in them, particularly ANT, Goodrich, et.al., really really ring my bell. I loved many of the NAHBS examples and would love to own one of these city bikes...if I lived where it was at all useful. Some are a bit "precious" if the details move asethetically away from use, but I prefer perfectly thought-through utility, no frills, nuthin' excessive, like Dede's bike shown in this thread. But I don't live in a city anymore and as much as I love them, I don't own them or want them. As much as I might be characterized a "collector" I have never wanted to own a bike that I can't regularly ride and that suits my lifestyle.

I suppose I could name the NAHBS bikes that didn't ring said bells if only because they are too too. Somehow quirky is something I can prefer but a bit over the top is for other people. I want my eye to be drawn into a bike rather than pushed back by eccentric detail, an idea that isn't realllly functional, certain color combinations, or a sense of balance. I can tell the difference: am I drawn into the bike with a sense of its proportions and designed use?

If I were a city dweller (which is what I would be if I were not rural, no 'burbs for me...just a preference) and leaving a bike outside locked for a few hours, it would be a beater and those are very cool. Leave a bike too long in many places and it disappears (unless that happens to be my front porch. Feel free to drop off your Meivici here and pick it up when you like.) If I were beating around town I'd build an old bike to 650B or get a Kog or Bleriot, which are not "cheap" but GREAT affordable bikes.
If I were just doing urban errands or short commuting (where I could would lock up for a few minutes or in the latter case bring the bike inside), then why not ride something as nice as Dede's bike? And I've never seen a commuter that's nicer than that! Seen it! Poured over it! Whoa. Too nice? Why reduce your use of a bike from fear, anxiety, or collector's investment? No way! Ride your bike! Yes, I do ride my restored, perfect Rene Herse and the other bikes that are rare and likely valuable to collectors who never ride theirs.

BTW, I think that not riding a bike you love is JUST FINE. I don't think my preference for riding all of the bikes I own makes me somehow a more authentic cyclist or makes the bikes bikes, or any such thing: if you are just a collector, that's swell! Why not? Why feel that others should do what you like? Are the stakes so high that there's not room for folks doing what they like? I don't think I have one view of what cycling is all about or that bikes _need_ to be ridden or _should_ be ridden. Why care about this?

Since I live pretty far out in the country, I no longer keep a gentleperson's utility bike. I do have a single speed 650B Mariposa that I bring up to town to ride urban when I get the urge or when work means I won't get home in time for a ride (so I ride from town). I've sold my urban bikes though the only serious seller's regret I have ever had involves the sale of a Rene Herse Gentleman. I just saw the fella' who owns it at the NAHBS and he told me that he thanks me when he rides it, so at least I have the satisfaction of it being with a friend in a great home. Dumb me for selling but I _still_ wouldn't ride it.

I prefer what Grant Petersen calls "country bikes", that is, bikes with light carriers, fenders, and usually a lamp because these suit my riding preferences, particularly driven by my environment. Some of my country bikes have tires as wide as 38c 650B and some as skinny as a 25c Continental (which cannot really be 25c). I don't carry heavy loads so my most preferred bikes are cyclosportif-style: usually just a front carrier with light load or a rear banana bag or Carradice Jr., in short, carrying as little as possible. I will post pictures of the minor revisions I've made to the original build, re: my recent acquisition from Peter Weigle, which provides an excellent example of the idea that works best for me.

I've tried not to romance or idealize my preferences into ideas that aren't _really_ what I do, how I live, or what I like. I keep "race" bikes without fenders for the days when they are most fun and the roads most likely dry. I have never felt like a cyclosportif bike is a disadvantage by weight or design because I don't race. I prefer downtube shifters usually but for simplicity and never feel slower for them. I'm happy to ride with racer biker types in anything but a race and don't feel disadvantaged by the "advantage" that some believe comes with the bike. If I am dropped, it's not the bike even though my cyclosportifs are more like 18-23lbs (or more) rather than sub-17 like so many strive for. I never consider weight a disadvantage to a well-designed bike. Serotta has always agreed with that view and I admire them for it, though you can build a REALLY light Serotta and that's cool! My point is that I just don't care about weight but rather the parts and design that works best. Get that right and you too will think far less about weight as a criteria of riding.

When I moved from the City of Rochester to the "resort" town of Canandaigua my cycling preferences changed. But when I moved further out into the woods, they were again reshaped by my environment (rural, hilly, wetter and muddier, etc.) and how I feel about riding fun. Environment is my primary influence, that's sort'a my point about this thread. I think it may likely be yours too.

Then there are the aesthetic preferences. I prefer the look of a well-appointed cyclosportif to any other style of bike. If a bike is a modern race bike, then as far as I am concerned I prefer it look something like most of the examples we see from RS or Dario's Luiginos or a great level tt CSi with a steel fork. If a bike is a cyclosportif, then I prefer "the look" of Weigle, Mariposa, and Toei. It's fun not to be too rigid or narrow in view and when I see a Love#3 Dario or many a cool Serotta my heart leaps with joy. For me it's really fun that people like bikes that aren't to my particular tastes. (ANY bike that is really used by someone who needs a special kind of build sends me into the eighth level of bodhisattva joy. In this case any and all criteria of aesthetic preference are relinquished.)

As you can tell, I have a long day of work ahead. Now I'd better get to it.


dbrk
"...today will be bitter cold....tomorrow as well..."---local weatherman, western NY, March 7, 2007

[British]

See thread '47 Months' - currently running at about 5 years.

Edit: Though I hope he would let you jump the queue the second time if someone stole his first attempt!

5? Truly? Mr. White needs to be cloned.

[mosca]

The fashion industry has its runway shows, the automotive industry has its motor shows, and each has products created exclusively to attract attention in that specific environment. It seems that this is a recent development in the bicycle biz, a side effect of the increasing high-profile of the NAHBS, perhaps?

How many builders out there are finding themselves more and more concerned with creating products in order to have an impact at the show? More than a few, I would say. And maybe it will lead to some new ideas, maybe to non-functional excess, but overall is it a good trend or not?

[72gmc]

Big Shanty speaks the truth and has good taste in bikes.

We may only go around once, you know. A nice commuter bike means you're doing at least part of it right.

[djg]

The bikes don't actually look into the spy building as all of the windows are blacked out ;)

Sure, the bikes cannot look into the spy building, but the spy building can look out at the bikes.

[michael white]

the real commuter bikes are the Dutch, heavy steel lugged beasts that ONLY come with fenders racks locks generators, etc. Higher form of civilization.

For many years now I've commuted on my one ti mtn bike with slicks and a steel Kelly fork (I have bell lights etc). It's a very nice bike for a commuter, and I do lock it up outside the grocery store often. When I go offroading I can, if I want, put the sus fork and knobbys back on. I will commute on Colnago or Merlin sometimes.

Sometimes I long for a Bianchi Milano, to do the same thing, but really it would be redundant. In the end, it's pointless to try to figure out the perfect bike for everything. But what I have, I bought them to ride, I am the raison d'etre and the future is now.

[RIHans]

To chime in...I ride my beater to work every day it's not freezin' and the rain is no problem...fenders. It's a nice older Schwinn, upgraded for the purpose of commuting, errands, around town, etc. Lock it up, do my biz, a little scratch, no problem.
When I'm going on a "real" ride, I break out the good bike with the skinny tires, nice paint, no lock.
Two bikes with two lives...And a fixie in build!

[ahpook]

(erstwhile lurker, first time poster)

one additional point specifically about the NAHBS bikes is that the builders often do experimental or not-commercially-viable features on them which later trickle down to consumer level bikes as industry folk look for the next big thing and figure out how to mass produce it.

the example i have in mind, specifically about utility bikes, is the one-piece stem-and-bars combo that many people spooged over (figuratively) at the 07 show:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pcnotpc/412068487

which have now made it to the raleigh one-way:

http://www.raleighusa.com/wp-content/uploads/post-images/RB_2011_One-Way_Dark-Red_LG.jpg

The NAHBS bikes are kind of like the concept cars at LA/detroit auto show: somebody's got to be out on the bleeding edge so the rest of the world can catch up 3-5 years later.