Handlebar questions.

[Xyzzy]

I'm thinking of getting some new handlebars. I like what I have now, but I'd like to experiment with other combinations. Right now I have a 40cm (center to center) FSA "Energy T" traditional bar (http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=41&pid=426) with a 13cm -17° FSA OS-115 stem (http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=43&pid=88).

As of now, I am very happy with the stiffness of the combination, but I'm not entirely happy with the shape of the bar. I don't know enough to tell what bothers me. I know that sounds dumb. Rest assured, however, that this bar is infinitely more comfortable than my old FSA K-Wing. The stem, in my opinion, could have a bit more surface area on the part that attaches to the carbon steerer.

I'm thinking of trying a Thomson X2 stem (http://www.lhthomson.com/elite_x2.htm) with the same dimensions, and a Deda Newton bar (http://www.dedaelementi.com/dettaglio.asp?articolo=123).

The questions:

1) The Newton offers a shallow drop and a deep drop. I think my current FSA bars have a deep drop (145mm). What reasons would one choose between the two? If it matters, I'll be using Campy and I'll be setting the levers so the bottom of the lever is in line with the drop section, when it is placed on a table. (Does that make sense?). I spend a lot of time riding on the hoods. I only use the drops when I really need to hammer, which isn't very often. I sometimes climb (standing) in the drops which everyone tells me is weird, but I like to have different postions to climb from. My current bars tend to bang my wrists when climbing (standing) in the drops.

2) My head hurts reading the Newton chart. I can't figure out what drop and reach each has. (I don't even understand what reach is!) Plus, they are measured outside to outside. I don't even understand how these different dimensions affect the whole situation.

3) The only fact I know for sure is I want the narrowest bar possible and I like to have a bit of bar at the bottom of the drop to hang on to. I've seen drop bars that have no bar at the bottom and I can't figure out how people ride them.

4) Is there anything interesting about the overall shape of the Newton? I know it is popular. I bang my wrists up a bit during my pathetic attempts at sprinting with my current bar but it is not nearly as bad as it was with my old K-Wings. Will the Newton be better? I really don't need much room on the tops of the bar. If I grab the tops it is always right at the stem.

5) Would a Thomson X2 stem, with the same dimensions as my FSA stem be okay? I'm concerned with the mechanical connection, stiffness, gentleness to the carbon steerer and aesthetics, of course. I've been told that one should try to match the stem and bar manufacturer, but I'd like to try the Thomson so I can match it with a Thomson seatpost.

6) I'm only interested in aluminum stems and handlebars, and not just because of the cost.

I apologize for the volume of questions! I know I tend to overanalyze things but I have a lot of free time and a very limited budget. If I had my choice I'd buy one of everything and try them all out.

Any insight at all is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Xyzzy]

It looks like "Coke from a glass bottle" takes the early lead.

The deafening silence on this topic either means that the idea is so stupid it isn't worth replying to, or that it is such a common combination that it isn't worth replying to. In either case, there is a common theme.

I took the chance that it was the latter case and ordered the stem, bars and seatpost today. All told, it was $288.95 delivered. I did some creative price matching so I think that was an okay price. The -17° stem eliminated a lot of vendors. Finding one place that had that stem angle and shallow bend Newtons took a bit of poking around. I ended up dealing with Speedgoat.

Here's hoping the setup doesn't look and function like crap!

:banana:

[dirtdigger88]

I like the combo -

I just put the thomson x2 and a deda newton deep on my dks

jason

[Xyzzy]

And *** is up with Dr. Pepper?

http://www.mersenneforum.org/images/smilies/extra/sick.gif

[soulspinner]

I highly recommend the x-2. I have tried a lot of stems and only my ttt forgie is as stiff but its much heavier. You have to like the looks-the finish is excellent. All my Ritchey stems are in my toolbox.

[manet]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e61/easterncaster/mountaindew.gif

[Steelhead]

I'm considering the Thomson X2 stem, but I like a 6 degree rise. Thinking about going with a Ritchey WCS which is a stretch at 8 degrees, and looks like the X2 only comes in 10deg. rise. Anyone know if they make a lower rise than 10 degree??

[Xyzzy]

I'm considering the Thomson X2 stem, but I like a 6 degree rise. Thinking about going with a Ritchey WCS which is a stretch at 8 degrees, and looks like the X2 only comes in 10deg. rise. Anyone know if they make a lower rise than 10 degree??The regular Elite line has a +-5° but it looks like the X2 is just +-10° or +-17°. The X4 has a 0°, though. I think that is their MTB line.

[davids]

http://www.aerostar.com/images/Dr%20Pepper.jpg

3TTT Forgie and a Ritchey WCS stem. Or an Oval Concepts R700 stem.

[Xyzzy]

The Newton bars, Thomson X2 stem and Thomson Masterpiece seat post arrived today.

*** was I thinking? I should have done this a long time ago. These things reek quality, especially the Thomson stuff. The Masterpiece seat post is crazy. The internal diameter is oval shaped.

The Thomson stuff was spot on for weight, but the bars were 250g. I am deluding myself to think that the extra material makes them even stronger.

I can't wait to get my warrantied frame back. I heard a rumor that a raw frame (clearcoated, of course) is 80g less due to the weight loss from the paint. I think I can get this thing sub 16lb. I know that isn't light but when you have a 1350g frame, stripped to the max, you are handicapped from the beginning.

(Yeah, I could buy a new bike, but coming up with that much $ at one time, without pissing off the wife, is impossible. I can fudge parts here and there.)

Enclosed is my parts list. The left column is the old setup and the right is the new setup. I don't have a weight yet for the new frame. The new frame will also be 1 size smaller.

An interesting observation is not only is my bike getting lighter, it is getting stronger. (Less carbon, more heavy-duty purpose aluminum.)

The 170g difference between the calculated and the actual weight is most likely cumulative scale error and crap like grease. My scale only reads in 10g increments.

Edit: Fixed chart.

[merckx]

Moxie. Try it.

[davids]

Moxie. Try it.
My family spends our summers at a family camp in Maine. Every Monday, we have a local beer tasting for the adults. The kids have local root beer tasting, which is quite a lot of fun, atmo. Only they're aren't that many local root beers. So Moxie is on the menu. Not a real crowd-pleaser in my experience. Acquired taste, and all that.

So, like I said... 3ttt Forgie bars and an Oval Concepts R700 stem. Or a Ritchey WCS stem.

[Xyzzy]

I wondered what moxie was.

I had a WCS stem and I thought it was a noodle. Go figure.

[soulspinner]

I substituted an x-2 stem on my Ritchey bars for the wcs and the difference is noticeable on the road. My x-2 comes in under publicized weight and all the seatposts from Thomson I have come in within 1 gram of list. The finish is very nice and you can get siver if you wish instead of black. The finish on the wcs stem shi:ite the bed. My wcs bars are 241(not 235 as on Ritchey site).

[Climb01742]

about shallow vs deep drop bars: i like shallow drop. that way i can get the bar tops lower while still having useable drops.

[Xyzzy]

Just an observation between the OS-115 and the X2.

But first, an explanation of how the stem attaches on a Slice Premium(+) steerer column. The steerer column is carbon and the wall thickness is very thin compared to a "normal" steerer column. Cannondale supplies an aluminum bushing that serves as the top cap and as a reinforcement inside the steerer. This bushing is roughly the stack height of a stem. When you clamp down on the stem, you are really clamping down on the very thin walled carbon steerer and the bushing. This is why running spacers above the stem on a system like this is a bad thing. That scenario puts the bushing in the wrong spot in relation to the stem and you could collapse the steerer.

Back to the original observation:

When I removed my fork to send it and the frame back to Cannondale, I noticed that there were major indentations in the carbon from where the stem inner surface clamped down. While the indentations look a bit scary, there is no defect here and I am fully confident that this is okay, given the bushing system in place. On a regular steerer, I might be worried. I had over 12-15,000 miles (I removed the computer a long time ago.) with no slippage or anything. However, IMO, a smart guy would look for a stem that has maximal surface area that actually touches the steerer.

The OS-115 has an area that touches, ring-like, at the top and bottom, and an area on the sides that wraps around to the back. The front half of the stem is nearly totally void of material. Before I saw the X2, I assumed this was "a lot" of surface area. The X2, however, easily has 2x the surface area to clamp down on the steerer, and none of the areas are narrow. The area in the front is especially pronounced. All the machined areas transition smoothly and have no severe angles.

Now I'm not saying the OS-115 is no good. I got a lot of miles out of it and it never failed. It is very stiff. I like how the graphics on both sides read normally when in the -17° mode. I never liked the carbon stem faceplate because it is a bit bulky. I like to climb on the tops with my hands right next to the stem so smaller is better. I like how titanium hardware does not rust, but nobody will ever say titanium screws are as strong as steel ones. Finally, I believe, through experience, that a 4 bolt pattern face plate makes it too easy to apply uneven torque. Overall it is a good stem and infinitely better than the Ritchey WCS, for example. (YMMV and all that crap.)

Now I could be wrong (It has happened before!) and all the clamping force needed is from the sides and back, and not from the front. In that case this post is worthless.

A final strange thing:

The FSA states, on all 6 bolts, 78inlb. The Thomson states, on all 4 bolts, 45inlb.

That makes me wonder a bit.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

[SponsorsWanted]

When it's in I'd like to see a picture of the complete bike with your new toys.

[Xyzzy]

I mounted the shifters to the bar yesterday. I mounted the stem today but it got too dark to take a picture. I am very impressed with the quality of the Thomson. I called them with a technical question and they answered it promptly and they acted like they really cared.

The bar bend is a lot better than I expected. I like the new graphics, too.

The shifters, bar and stem weigh in at 740g. Not very light, but I suspect very durable, which was my goal.

[H.Frank Beshear]

I use a torque wench and replaced the stem clamp bolts on the FSA twice. Replaced the tiny ti stuff with, stainless end of problem. Thompson works well for my 225#s ymmv. Frank

[Xyzzy]

I can't wait to get my warrantied frame back. I heard a rumor that a raw frame (clearcoated, of course) is 80g less due to the weight loss from the paint. I think I can get this thing sub 16lb. I know that isn't light but when you have a 1350g frame, stripped to the max, you are handicapped from the beginning.
The warrantied frame is 1210g. I'm just waiting on a fork right now. My cost for the warrantied frame was a bottle of JD. That was the least I could do, and that stuff tastes like *** to me.

Funny story:

The shop calls. Tells me my frame is in. I go to shop. They pull out the box, which is still sealed. Guy begins to open box. I stop him. He asks why. I tell him it is worth much more on eBay sealed. He ****s a brick. I tell him I was just joking. Much laughter ensues.

[Xyzzy]

Replaced the tiny ti stuff with, stainless end of problem.
My original 11cm OS-115, OEM, from Cannondale, came with stainless steel bolts. Product liability decision? Probably. They still rusted. I was told it was the bits of microscopic metal shearing off the hex wrench causing the rust but I don't buy that.

In unrelated news, I have gone from 215# to 192# since January 1st. I can't wait to get back to my normal 150#. 200# on my frame is morbidly obese because it is *all* in my gut.

[Kevan]

when you have some real sodas to offer:

http://www.bevnet.com/images/reviews/saranac/saranac-root.jpg