Serotta is not the only one with great customer service - FSA!

[Kurt]

I have been meaning to write about my experience with the rd400, so I guess now is as good a time as any. I have around 1k on my set, and several of the non-drive rear spokes started to loosen up a bit. There are many ideas on wheel building, these wheels have an extreme dish to them – the wheel, even when the spokes came loose stayed perfectly true. I have never had this happen to any wheel I have owned, but no big deal, I would just true them. Put together a new set of the 400’s for the gfriend last night – smart looking wheels. She road for maybe 50’ and I hear a screeching sound – metal-to-metal – YIKES! The wheel has a slight bow to it and if one runs their brake pads down too low, it is a direct hit to the lower portion on the brake caliper – Phuck! I called FSA, talked with a customer service guy for a few moments – said that the spoke issue can happen if there is not enough thread compound or the rider weighs a lot, hard on wheels, etc. Said if I wanted to send them in, he would true or replace the wheel. I just said I would true it up and be done with it. Then told him about the morning ride, putting a deep score in the front wheel – he offered to send me a new wheel today, no questions asked. Here I thought I was going to jump through hoops putting a claim in with America Express and buying a new front wheel. Guess whose cranks I will be using from now on. Another great company to deal with. :beer:

[Richard]

They are responsive, but it sounds like their wheels suck.

[TimD]

Well said :)

[BarryG]

Sorry for hitting a company when it's down, but I heard today that FSA was also quite responsive when one of their bottom brackets broke soon after it was installed on a 70-year old man's tourer. Scarey jit.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/fsabb.jpg

[shaq-d]

so scarey i'd chalk it up to user error. that BB would really have to be one weak piece of metal to snap like that so soon by a 70 yr old... i just don't believe it :butt:


sd

[Kurt]

Most of this stuff is a compromise in some fashion or another. Spokes loosening is a drag, but not the end of the world for me – it happens. If it happens a lot, I trust they will somehow make it right. If they don’t then I have AX to fall back on for 2 years. As far as the brake scoring, I will share in some of the blame as I run my brakes down pretty far – I just have never had to check under the pads, but now I will. I have owned most popular wheels and they all suck in some way or another - can’t get a tire on a campy wheel, AC420’s are bad in crosswind and the company does not back their product, K’s same wind problem – better company. Choose your poison. That said, I still think the 400’s are a solid deal for <$400 for a 1500gm wheel that looks good and seems to be built overall very well. Bottom line for me is I like the way they ride, and that’s what we do out west.
:banana:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?id=tech/2004/reviews/fsa_wheels_cranks_bb_1



They are responsive, but it sounds like their wheels suck.

[BarryG]

i just don't believe it

whatever . . .Whole story (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fsabb.html)



Kurt, FWIW I've had excellent support from AC on several occasions - just another data point.

[Kurt]

everything is based on my own exp and what I hear from friends. I know folks on this board favor AC, that's fine. I know 6 folks that have had 420 fail and the company did not back the product or wanted to charge money, like they did with me. All this stuff will fail, depending on how one rides can make it fail faster. I ride a lot, I race, I weigh in the 180's - nothing will stand up that well for me, but what makes the difference is the company behind the product. FSA seems like a class act, but if the 400's suck in the long term, my opinion my change. Oh, I am a current owner of 420's (rebuild once) they are on my crit rig. I love the way they ride, period - but they are really junk wheels when compared to other brands, fsa, velomax, velocity/record, campy, etc. If someone made a high quality 420 that would be my wheel and don't say rolf or zipp please.

whatever . . .Whole story (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fsabb.html)



Kurt, FWIW I've had excellent support from AC on several occasions - just another data point.

[shaq-d]

well, sheldon's thing busted after several hundred miles. things can happen in that span, even though for a bb htat is typically nothing. i guess i'm slightly less skeptical now, since the impression from the above post was that it busted after like 10 mi.

sd

[BarryG]

I admit to taking editorial license and morphing Sheldon's "about 3 days later" into "soon after". I just hope we don't hear about more such breakage.

[chrisroph]

I have a friend who, many years ago, broke a phil spindle. He was 6'6", about 210 lbs, and a good sprinter. Its the only such phil failure I've ever heard of but it was one scary experience for him.

[Jeff N.]

everything is based on my own exp and what I hear from friends. I know folks on this board favor AC, that's fine. I know 6 folks that have had 420 fail and the company did not back the product or wanted to charge money, like they did with me. All this stuff will fail, depending on how one rides can make it fail faster. I ride a lot, I race, I weigh in the 180's - nothing will stand up that well for me, but what makes the difference is the company behind the product. FSA seems like a class act, but if the 400's suck in the long term, my opinion my change. Oh, I am a current owner of 420's (rebuild once) they are on my crit rig. I love the way they ride, period - but they are really junk wheels when compared to other brands, fsa, velomax, velocity/record, campy, etc. If someone made a high quality 420 that would be my wheel and don't say rolf or zipp please.I wouldn't ride Zipp wheels if you GAVE them to me! Jeff N.

[vaxn8r]

Rolf or Zipp....sorry, couldn't resist.

If it tells you anything about AC, Rolf used their hubs the first year after he moved to Eugene to restart his wheel business after the Trek breakup. There were so many complaints and problems with the AC's that they have now gone to using White Industry hubs. So far so good from what I hear in "Rolf land". Then again, I also heard that AC revamped their hubs this year anyway. Maybe they finally got the message that their hubs were...not good.

[Jeff N.]

I've got a pair of Sestrieres that have Hugi hubs. They're now on my Airborne, which I ride infrequently. I'll ride those, but NEVER Zipps. Jeff N.

[chrisroph]

I've got some 303's and they are quite fast but a little cantankerous.

[shinomaster]

why no zipp? no good?? me no understand?

[Andreu]

I must be missing the point......crap products but good service. I have had Mavic open pros and Ambrosios use campag group sets and never had any problems with them (I race quite a bit) on the scale you are talking about (touch wood and cross fingers). I am not sure what the service is like in these companies as the products don´t break in the first place. What are you doing with your wheels/equipment?
A

[Too Tall]

Kudos to FSA for designs created by riders who have some princliple. Their ISIS BBs to my knowledge are the only ones cold forged. Sheldon had a bad one and I personally think he cried wolf.

Have to agree about the super light Zipp rims...they can be fussy but hey you pay a price for such stuff. Nimble, on the other hand, makes rims only a wee bit heavier and are alot stronger AND customer service is the best. OK, I'm kind of keen on the company these days...what can I say?

[BarryG]

Kudos to FSA . . . their ISIS BBs to my knowledge are the only ones cold forged.

I'm no metallurgist, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the BB in that picture appears to be cast and not forged.

Barry

[bostondrunk]

Myself, and two people I ride with all have Zipp 404's. None of us are lightweights, and they have held up just fine. 2 seasons of racing so far (I don't train on them) and never have even needed to be trued. I contacted the company twice with questions and they were very helpful. If you are a porker and ride over potholes all day long, and think any carbon wheel should hold up, keep dreaming and go on a diet. <burp>

PS. Before anyone gets offended....I too am on a diet....except for the beer........no breast milk....

[Andreu]

How did we get back on the subject of breasts again?
This is scarey
A ;)

[Bruce K]

...has great customer service.

I have been riding a set of their ALPS wheels now for over 2 seasons for my "event" rides as well as longer or hillier training rides.

They have held up extremely well.

I had one problem with a hub body that cracked last season. I called them on a Monday and had a whole new wheel by Friday. I think the broken and new wheels crossed in UPS.

And this was a wheel that was a little over a year old!!

BK

[Jeff N.]

My opinion of Zipp products is based on my experience with their oh-so-expensive P.O.S. carbon crankset a little while back. They virtually disintegrated right off my BB. Garbage of an unprecedented scope, that crankset never should've been put on the market. When I sent the crankset back to them for a refund...or whatever...they told me all they could do was give me a discount on a pair of their wonderful wheelsets! I almost kill myself with their crankset, and they wanna sell me a pair of their wheels at a discount? What balls. I wouldn't care if their wheelsets were rated as the finest in the world...I wouldn't ride 'em for friggin' free! Or ANY OTHER Zipp product for that matter. Come to find out, their cranksets were ALL discontinued a while back. Seems others must've had the same problem as me. Just pure, expensive garbage, plain and simple. You can quote me on that. Heres to you, Zipp! :butt: Jeff N.

[Richard]

With all due respect, Bruce, your comment indicates good customer service (same as Kurt's does), but any wheel with a hub body that cracks that quickly is, in my opinion, holding up poorly, not well, as you state (how's this for a run on sentence?). I would say that both companies try to build good will by making up for bad product with good service. Certainly a business strategy that has worked with you and Kurt.

Something that holds up extremely well would be like my Shimano hubs with Mavic rims or my Mavic hubs with Mavic rims that have gone from hard use as 8 speed wheels to continued hard use as 9 speed (possibly 10 years at thousands of miles per year). Hell, the Mavic hubbed set sometimes sees cyclocross duty and with a tire change road training duty. That, IMHO, is holding up well.

Hell, my AC350 wheels (a product denigrated by Kurt) have been more reliable than either Kurt's or your wheels. As for customer service, well, I didn't need it with them so I'll take Kurt's word for it that it sucks. But, at least (for me) the product works. They are extremely light so I don't expect the service life of my other wheels, but even light stuff should be relatively trouble free for more than a couple of months or even a year or two.

[Too Tall]

Just a sec......(accessing the nerual-bike-geek-net) got it! Below is a clip of the 2002 catalogue:

ULTIMAX XTREME
BOTTOM BRACKET
• Forged hollow chromoly spindle with
ISIS Drive
• Triple sealed oversized ball bearings
• Cold forged aluminum cups
• 68 x 108mm, 113mm or 118mm width
• 73 x 113mm
• Weight – 253 grams
ISIS BOTTOM BRACKET TOOL
• Forged for strength
and durability
• FSA laser
etched logo

[Roy E. Munson]

Why isn't your LBS handling all this for you guy's? I don't think I've ever had a problem with a part that wasn't remedied to complete satisfaction by my LBS.

[BarryG]

TT, I know they say it's cold forged . . . but look at the cross section of that fractured metal

[CarbonTi]

My opinion of Zipp products is based on my experience with their oh-so-expensive P.O.S. carbon crankset a little while back. They virtually disintegrated right off my BB. Garbage of an unprecedented scope, that crankset never should've been put on the market. When I sent the crankset back to them for a refund...or whatever...they told me all they could do was give me a discount on a pair of their wonderful wheelsets! I almost kill myself with their crankset, and they wanna sell me a pair of their wheels at a discount? What balls. I wouldn't care if their wheelsets were rated as the finest in the world...I wouldn't ride 'em for friggin' free! Jeff N.

So Jeff, let me see if I have this correct...The OP was concerning AC wheels which elicited a comment on Zipp wheels. You chime in giving your opinion of Zipp products, inclusive of Zipp wheels, saying they are NG. Your only (?) experience with Zipp is with their defunct crankset. And your pan of Zipp wheels is based on what? (Don't answer - rheotorical question)

I'm all for straight shooting but you lost me on this one. Maybe I'm not as particular as you, but I'd ride virtually any wheel if given free, as long as I thought it wouldn't kill me in trying them.

[Roy E. Munson]

I assume JeffN must have a hard time getting bike parts. If Zipp parts suck because they built a useless crank, then I can only assume Shimano sucks after building biopace, Campy sucks after buillding that useless Record carbon post, Mavic sucks after the Mektronic....

Are you using SunTour?

[Bruce K]

Actually Richard, it was a bad casting of the hub flange where the spokes lace through.

The only reason I noticed I had a problem was that the wheel started rubbing the brake pad. After widening the brake I was able to finish the century I was on.

The fact that I was able to ride about 15 miles without incident tells me a lot about the overall quality of their design.

The fact that they stood behind their product and resolved the problem quickly says a lot about the company and people behind it to me.

Bruce

[Kurt]

I am not condemning any of the AC products, the 350 rims can make a great light wheelset and I own and love the 420’s. That said, it is my personal opinion that they are not a high-quality product compared to others and based on my experience and others in my club they do not back their products – in the warranty period they look for outs, the first generation of hubs on the 420 fell apart on everyone’s wheel I recommended buy them, slop in the micro-hub, etc. We switched from them being our sponsor to mavic for this and other reasons. If you want light wheels, they are a viable option and one might never have a problem. Everyone rides different; I am hard on equipment so I temper my rants on products knowing this. Bottom line is I like the way AC 420’s ride, but wish they had customer service like Shinamo, FSA, Serotta, True-Temper to match. Customer service is everything to me. Gfriend got her self run over a few months back, AlphaQ fork – sent in the fork and had a new one for half price in less than 3 days – its not that hard, the medium sized companies seem to do it better than the real small or big outfits. If these 400’s from FSA totally suck in the long-term I am sure they will make it right – if they don’t then so be it – that’s why I buy everything with the AX card, its like have a free 2 year test period on products. Have a nice weekend!


Hell, my AC350 wheels (a product denigrated by Kurt) have been more reliable than either Kurt's or your wheels. As for customer service, well, I didn't need it with them so I'll take Kurt's word for it that it sucks. But, at least (for me) the product works. They are extremely light so I don't expect the service life of my other wheels, but even light stuff should be relatively trouble free for more than a couple of months or even a year or two.[/QUOTE]

[vaxn8r]

Why isn't your LBS handling all this for you guy's? I don't think I've ever had a problem with a part that wasn't remedied to complete satisfaction by my LBS.


Here here! My Deda Carbon post was repeatedly slipping in newest Tetra Pro. I know, I know, stupid idea in the first place but it does look cool...that's what it's about right? ;) Anyway, my LBS got me a brand new one and it slipped too. So....I did what anyone would try, I cranked it down so hard I punctured the post. $#%#$! I ordered a Thomson, borrowed one of the shop's Thomson's to use in the meantime. They are not charging me for the two Deda's, either one. That's what a good shop will do for you...when they know you are loyal to them they will take care of you.

[Richard]

Kurt, I appreciate what you are saying, but I guess it is my personal take on things that, customer service is mistaken for quality. I am always recommending companies with good service policies, but if the product always needs service, well...As I said, the best stuff causes one to never find out about service policy.

That said, I hope the FSA wheels work forever, they certainly appear to be an inexpensive option for a light wheelset.

I must be easy on wheels, they stay tight and true and the hubs don't break. I am still riding open 4 hoops on three wheelsets. Maybe that's why my AC wheels have held up, who knows.

[Jeff N.]

I assume JeffN must have a hard time getting bike parts. If Zipp parts suck because they built a useless crank, then I can only assume Shimano sucks after building biopace, Campy sucks after buillding that useless Record carbon post, Mavic sucks after the Mektronic....

Are you using SunTour?But the Zipp crankset is way-over-the-top in its mega-suckishness...to the extent that it precludes any purchase of a product made by a company that would allow said crankset to be put on the market in the first place.(The LBS I bought it from had closed its doors.) Case closed. Jeff N.