Asthetics Of Short ST Stays?

[FierteTi52]

I was recently fit for an Ottrott after riding a 52 cm Fierte Ti for the past year. The Fierte is a virtual 52cm with a 46cm seatube. The shortest seat tube that will accomodate ST stays is also 46cm. I was concered how it would look jammed up in the seat cluster so during the fit I indicated going to a 48 -50cm seat tube would be my preference. We have the first draft of the bike and they used a 47cm seat tube for stand over reasons. My legs are very short, although my NHX is a conventional 52cm with a level TT. I also rode the LBS owner's 50cm and stand over was not an issue. I know I'm in good hands with Serotta, but I want to look at all options. Has anyone seen a ST stay bike with a seat tube around 46cm? Any pictures would be helpful.
Jeff

[Serotta PETE]

Serotta might have an application that will draw it out for you to see the proportions. Another possibility might be to look at pictures in forum to see if any are close.

Good luck!!!

See you are in Buffalo, so maybe you can come to Open House and there will be one there.

[victoryfactory]

Fierte;
I had a Concours CS built with very similar geometry, virtual 52CM and 5 degree sloping TT.there was absolutely no problem with the look or performance of the bike due to the short seat tube/ carbon stay interface. Although I did opt for an "S" decal on the seat tube instead of the full "Serrota" name. If you trust your fitter's opinion on the measurements, go for it.

Victory Factory, human mind trapped in the body of a chimpanzee

[FierteTi52]

Victory Factory,
Do you have any pictures of your Concours CS you can post? Good point regarding the use of the "S" decal on short seat tubes. My Fierte Ti came with the "S" logo and after measuring the length of the SEROTTA decal, it's too long to fit the seatube.
Jeff

[victoryfactory]

Jeff;
Here is a picture of the Concours CS. I sold this frame to a friend when I upgraded to a Legend Ti with similar geometry.
The ST on this bike is 48cm
VF
http://victoryfactory.com/serottaCS.jpg

[my2cents]

I put my pictures in the gallery - they might help you.

"pictures that might help"

[victoryfactory]

my2cents;
If that doesn't convice Jeff that Serotta can build his bike, nothing will.
Very elegant
VF

[FierteTi52]

Victory Factory and Spoke,
Great looking bikes. Both are similar to my specs although my TT is 53cm. The ST stays look fine at 47cm or 48cm. VF, do you recall the head tube extension measured from the top of the TT? My specs are the normal .70cm protrusion + a 2.5cm extension = 3.20cm above the TT. In the second revision, we are going to go from a 47cm to a 48cm ST and reduce the head tube extension by raising theTT junction slightly. This will increase the standover a bit, but I think I will be happier with the look.
Jeff

[victoryfactory]

Jeff;
As I recall, the HT was a hefty 4cm above the top of the TT on that frame, I thought it was a bit too much, so we dialed it back to 3cm on my new frame.
BTW, the virtual TT is about 52 on the bike pictured above and 53 on the new Legend.
Have you thought about colors for your new ride? If you think the geometry is hard , wait until you try to decide on the paint!

good luck
VF

[FierteTi52]

Jeff;
As I recall, the HT was a hefty 4cm above the top of the TT on that frame, I thought it was a bit too much, so we dialed it back to 3cm on my new frame.
BTW, the virtual TT is about 52 on the bike pictured above and 53 on the new Legend.
Have you thought about colors for your new ride? If you think the geometry is hard , wait until you try to decide on the paint!

good luck
VF
VF sounds like your fit is very close to mine. Can you post pics of your new ride? The Ottrott will be polished ti, natural carbon, with red and white decals. I'm going to build with 10sp DA, Velomax wheels, Thompson post, Flite saddle, FSA K Force carbon bars, and FSA OS 115 stem.
Jeff

[gt6267a]

Here is a picture of the Concours CS. I sold this frame to a friend when I upgraded to a Legend Ti with similar geometry.

VF:

i am wondering what made you choose to get a legend and what differences you have or have not noticed with the legend Vs concours.

thanks,
k

[victoryfactory]

Jeff;
Here is a picture of my new Legend which replaced the Concours CS.:
Some liberties taken with Photoshop...
http://www.victoryfactory.com/serotta_legend04.jpg

K:
You asked for it....
Here are the reasons why I switched to the Legend:

1. Slight geometry refinements to dial in the handling while retaining the original contact points. (seat,pedals,hands)
I wanted a more relaxed , less sharp handling than the Concours.

2. In my opinion, the carbon stays gave the bike a stiffer ride than I wanted.
So I went with the Ti stays on the Legend (It worked, especially with the
increase to 42cm chain stay from 41 and a change in the trail and TT
all engineered by Kelly at Serotta. result: Big Improvement.

3. I wanted to decrease that god-awful 4cm rise on the head tube.

4. Although I loved the basic color, I disliked the stock matte finish on
the bare Ti on the Concours, too rough,too hard to clean.

5. Finally, a minor points. I liked the 1/2 paint 1/2 Ti (standard on Legend)
much better than the 3/4 paint which is standard on the Concours . I chose
a slightly different decal arrangement.

Final Impressions? Welp, Sure you can accuse me of being way to picky on
a bunch of levels, but I must say the Legend handles exactly the way I
had hoped, it is much smoother, dialed in better. I think that in my case
in order to get to where I wanted with this project, I probably needed
to take two shots at it. Fortunately, I was able to sell the concours to a
friend on the west coast (so we won't have the unfortunate experience of
meeting on the road riding the same color bikes) and the dealer took pity on
me and gave me a very good deal on the new frame (thanks , Paul)

Victory Factory, long winded as usual.

[gt6267a]

VF :

to some extent i am playing the devil's advocate here, but i am also curious for my future purchases:

obvious aesthetic issues aside ... I am wondering how much a roll in the differences between concours Vs. legend plays in the ride difference? what if you made all the changes in geometry to a new concours? basically, what was/is the advantage of getting the legend?

[victoryfactory]

K;
I think I know what you're getting at....
No, If those geometry changes were applied to another Concours (with the
standard Ti seat stays) I probably could never tell the difference in the ride.
(compared to a Legend)
But the #1 reason I switched was that the Concours CS was too "twitchy"
handling and too stiff for my taste. A racer's bike rather than a comfort bike.
Many riders would prefer former, I like the latter.
The move to a Legend was mostly because I really did not like the matte Ti finish
on the first bike and upgrading to polish with 1/2 paint 1'2 Ti would
have cost several hundred extra on a Concours, on the Legend, it's included.
I will not pretend that this decision was anything but style based, but I get
a thrill every time (well, almost) I get on the thing, and that's priceless.

VF, unapologetic , unrepentant upgrader

[gt6267a]

VF

thanks. i appreciate your candor. I am firm a believer that at these prices a few dollars to ensure aesthetic satisfaction is part of the program.

thanks again,
k