Texas / Dallas road cycling and quality of living??

[Z3c]

Hello,

Ok, here is our dilemma: we can't take the winters in KC any longer. In two years when our son finishes high school we are moving. We want to live somewhere with much less cold weather. We are thinking Texas at this point as the moderate cost of living will facilitate traveling and other pursuits that we enjoy. So, anyone out there living there with some thoughts? We will have our last child going into 7th grade so quality of schools matter. I would appreciate any/all thoughts on moving to Texas in general...

Thanks,

Scott

[Archibald]

Hello,

Ok, here is our dilemma: we can't take the winters in KC any longer. In two years when our son finishes high school we are moving. We want to live somewhere with much less cold weather. We are thinking Texas at this point as the moderate cost of living will facilitate traveling and other pursuits that we enjoy. So, anyone out there living there with some thoughts? We will have our last child going into 7th grade so quality of schools matter. I would appreciate any/all thoughts on moving to Texas in general...

Thanks,

Scott
Denver.

[Louis]

Won't you just be trading cr@ppy winters for cr@ppy summers?

I'd look for someplace with better summers.

[trophyoftexas]

Won't you just be trading cr@ppy winters for cr@ppy summers?

I'd look for someplace with better summers.

I'm about 75 miles east of Dallas and winter here is always "iffie" in terms of precip.....we get a couple of nasty icy-sleetie days a year....BUT the nice thing about it is that any ice or snow is usually gone within a day or two and we're back up into the 50-6-70 degree range. I rode Wednesday and it was 76 degrees, then rode on Thursday and it was 39 degree's....BUT....we get about 30-40 100 degree days a year, too! The older I get the less I can stand the heat....one thing nice, doesn't take long to get loose or warm up during a ride! I'm going to watch this one and I'll get back from time to time with comments and/or advice....I'm originally from Michigan so I've got a pretty good perspective on this whole "Texas" thing. :D

[weisan]

z3-pal, I think the Texas Hill Country area (eg. Kerrville/Fredericksburg) would suit you well, especially considering the things high up on your list (less cold weather, moderate cost of living, facilitate traveling and other pursuits that we enjoy).

Austin surrounding area might be a good choice as it is a stone throw away from quiet roads for good riding plus the convenience of a good size city.

Just one man's view.

[shanerpvt]

Another vote for Austin.

[Louis]

The National Weather Service web site has tons of neat info. Unfortunately different locations show data in different formats and I can't figure out how to compare them easily.

So here goes:

NWS data for Austin TX (http://www.srh.noaa.gov/ewx/html/South_Cntrl_Tx_Climate/daily/Climatography%20No%2084att.htm)

NWS data for Kansas City MO (http://www.crh.noaa.gov/eax/localclimate/kcrecnorm/)

NWS data for Santa Barbara CA (http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/lox/climate/sba.php)

[hess]

Hello,

Ok, here is our dilemma: we can't take the winters in KC any longer. In two years when our son finishes high school we are moving. We want to live somewhere with much less cold weather. We are thinking Texas at this point as the moderate cost of living will facilitate traveling and other pursuits that we enjoy. So, anyone out there living there with some thoughts? We will have our last child going into 7th grade so quality of schools matter. I would appreciate any/all thoughts on moving to Texas in general...

Thanks,

Scott




Seriously, you could do _far_ better than Texas.

[Z3c]

All,

Thanks for the responses so far; perhaps a little more input will help. I don't think Denver is the answer as we really want to get away from prolonged periods of cold weather. We are concerned about how hot it is in Texas; we simply cannot find data to support that you can avoid winter without gaining hot summers. If anyone knows differently, please IM with the location! I guess we are concerned about growing to hate heat as much as we do cold but from what we have read, the extreme heat is mostly July/Aug. Our approach is that we could spend July in Hawaii.. In general we want to exand our time window for being outdoors active.. Austin would certainly be a possibilty as well; I simply threw Dallas out there to start the conversation..

Thanks,

Scott

[Ozz]

.... we simply cannot find data to support that you can avoid winter without gaining hot summers. ...
I hate to say it, but look at the west coast near the ocean. The ocean moderates the winter weather, and the summers are very pleasant.

My grandfather moved the family to Seattle cuz he hated the St. Louis summers...

PS - it rains all the time in Seattle so don't come here. Maybe Portland will have you. ;)

[nm87710]

FWIW, I've lived in the east coast, west coast, south, upper midwest and mountain states and TX is where I've stayed the longest...

First, anywhere in TX is hot Jun-Aug make no mistake about it. On the other hand you get nine very nice months. It never really gets cold and you can ride year all winter without having to dress like Bibendum.

DFW is nice, inexpensive, good health care, some very good public school systems, diversified business/career environment, lots of cyclists/riding plus you can easily fly direct to anywhere. Not ugly but not the most beautiful or exciting city either. Good environment to raise a family or enjoy your passions w/o having to kill yourself to make ends meet.

Austin is bit more eclectic as the home of UTex and the Capital. Traffic is a nightmare and the cost of living is going up faster than other cities. Good cycling but car/cyclist accidents ever increasing with more riders and cars competing for road space.

Hill Country is quite nice in many smaller towns. Becoming more expensive and more populated. Some good school districts and not so good ones. Cycling is great but expect smaller groups/rides. Major shopping, health care and airports are 1+hr away in Austin or San Antonio. Maybe tough career wise.

Houston is a huge metropolitan area #7 in US with a pop ~6M. Very hot and humid in the summer. Lots of housing, career, health care, school options. Lots of riding - but can be through surburban sprawl.

Just my 2 pesos. Hope it helps

[nm87710]

Our approach is that we could spend July in Hawaii..

That's pretty much how we handle the heat. The cost of living is low enough in TX that we just pack up the heard and head to the cool mountains for the summer.

P.S. The best ConUSA location w/o summer or winter is San Diego but IMO the quality of living drops due to the cost of living.

[trophyoftexas]

....and accurate on the other area's, too. But to be honest about the heat, July-August are HOT, but June and September can be very hot, too. If you can swing being outta here for about 60 days in mid-summer, it's fine. Austin is great but everything posted so far about Austin is 100% true....I love Austin but the traffic situation is at least as bad as Houston or Dallas, but the distances that you would be traveling would probably be somewhat shorter. Dallas subs are great and some places inside Dallas are wonderful (expensive!), true. I've lived in Houston, OK to visit about once every 3-4 years but that's it for me. I go into Dallas at least once a week and really like it, for the most part. San Antonio, don't know as much about but have always enjoyed visiting there.....and, of course, most any of the nicer small towns in the near-to-Austin Hill Country are, to me, heaven on earth for a cycle-guy!

[Ken Robb]

good friends from San Diego cashed out their house here for a bigger nicer one in Kerrville and love it there. They are not athletes though so the hot summers don't bother them like they would me. Well in truth, he grew up surfing in Del Mar and La Jolla but I don't think you can do that on the Guadalupe River :rolleyes:

[rockdude]

A year ago I packed up from Dallas and moved to Boulder. I left Dallas because of the heat and lack of outdoor activies. Cycling is not great in the Dallas area nor is hiking, camping, climbing, running etc.. Cycling and running can be done ez in Oct.- May but when the heat sets in it is tough. Also, Dallas is not a very bike friendly place. The good things about Dallas are that it is inexpensive, has great employement opportunties, has excellent places to eat, super shopping, and a very urban life.

When we decided to move we went to the website below and filled out all the info and it provided a list of place that met our needs. Then we took a 3 week road trip and visited all the top places. I must say the website really helped us pick some cool places though out the Country.


http://www.findyourspot.com/default.asp?NewQ=3

[Steve K]

I moved from Dallas to Denver. My riding year round is a 100:1 in Denver's favor. I also find the winter in Denver more enjoyable than the constant cold wind found in Dallas and the 95+ degree temps from May - Sept. Just my 2 cents...

If I moved back to Texas with riding in mind it would not be Dallas. If you want a city I'd go for Austin.

[Louis]

When we decided to move we went to the website below and filled out all the info and it provided a list of place that met our needs. Then we took a 3 week road trip and visited all the top places. I must say the website really helped us pick some cool places though out the Country.


http://www.findyourspot.com/default.asp?NewQ=3

RD, What a cool site! Thanks for posting.

My List:

Truth or Consequences, New Mexico
Silver City, New Mexico
Holiday Island, Arkansas
Mountain Home/Bull Shoals, Arkansas
Paradise, California
Ventura, California
Cherokee Village, Arkansas
Heber Springs-Greers Ferry Lake, Arkansas
Santa Barbara, California
Milwaukie, Oregon
San Luis Obispo-Atascadero, California
Greenville, South Carolina
Eureka Springs, Arkansas
Fayetteville, Arkansas
Valencia, California
Ojai, California
Salem, Oregon
Page, Arizona
Sacramento, California
Hot Springs-Hot Springs Village, Arkansas
Palo Alto, California
Little Rock, Arkansas
St. George, Utah
Charleston, West Virginia

[Climb01742]

A year ago I packed up from Dallas and moved to Boulder. I left Dallas because of the heat and lack of outdoor activies. Cycling is not great in the Dallas area nor is hiking, camping, climbing, running etc.. Cycling and running can be done ez in Oct.- May but when the heat sets in it is tough. Also, Dallas is not a very bike friendly place. The good things about Dallas are that it is inexpensive, has great employement opportunties, has excellent places to eat, super shopping, and a very urban life.

When we decided to move we went to the website below and filled out all the info and it provided a list of place that met our needs. Then we took a 3 week road trip and visited all the top places. I must say the website really helped us pick some cool places though out the Country.


http://www.findyourspot.com/default.asp?NewQ=3

how do you like boulder?

[michael white]

I grew up in Missouri, and also lived for a time in Austin. Both have great cycling. (Most people don't know how good Missouri is.) I don't think I'd care for Dallas. All the criticisms about Austin are valid, but I was back there this year and was charmed all over again. Lovely for a big town.

One thing about moving from KC to Texas, is that you'd be moving from one great BBQ capital to another! Yumm!!!!

I live in another BBQ capital (NC). The 4th is Memphis.

Be advised, be very advised: The summers in Texas are nothing like MO. You won't even believe it till you see it.

best,

mw

[bcm119]

The National Weather Service web site has tons of neat info. Unfortunately different locations show data in different formats and I can't figure out how to compare them easily.



Here are some cool data-
Average high temps in July (http://www.ocs.oregonstate.edu/prism/products/viewer.phtml?file=/pub/prism/us_30s/graphics/tmax/Normals/us_tmax_1971_2000.07.png&year=1971_2000&vartype=tmax&month=07&status=final)

and

January (http://www.ocs.oregonstate.edu/prism/products/viewer.phtml?file=/pub/prism/us_30s/graphics/tmax/Normals/us_tmax_1971_2000.01.png&year=1971_2000&vartype=tmax&month=01&status=final)

Looks hot in DFW!

[chuckroast]

I'd echo the OP's comments. It has been stinkin' cold here in KC this winter. For the last several years, we've had occasional breaks of nice weather on a weekend in January or February to get a nice road ride in but so far this year, nothing.

[rockdude]

how do you like boulder?

The city of Boulder is very expensive. The average cost of a home in my zip code is like $820,000. Last years winter was great, this year we are breaking records with snow fall and cold. Spring, summer and fall could not be better. The thing I like most is, everytime I go for a water bottle or power bar everyone else thinks that is a perfect time to attack me. The real bad thing is that in Dallas if someone attacked, no problem, but in Boulder when someone attacks, I know that I may not see them again. Needless to say Boulder is very competitive. To answer you question, I like Boulder. Sometimes the people can be extremest on some views and also elitelist. One of the great benefits of Boulder is that it is only 110,000 people but it has all the amenities of a larger city. The reason we moved here was for all the outdoor activites without being to cold in the winter and Boulder meets that but most of the front range would have also worked.

[Larry]

North Dallas has one of the best and most complete bike shops in the
country. ....plus great service. Hooray Richardson Bike Mart!

Air quality has become worse, much worse, the last 10 years or so.
Summer is indeed miserable, and autumn really does not exist.

Oregon, more inland, would be a great place to live. I do not know what the cost of living is like. The coastline is very nice, but touristy.

I would also like Vermont or Maine, in spite of the cold. It probably costs alot to live in that area. Learn new winter sports! Upstate New York (Finger Lakes)
is quite beautiful.

Austin, Texas, I am told, is quite expensive. Congested, also!
There's too much of the UT student scene.

It is a tough call!!

[texbike]

Austin is an absolutely wonderful town, but it has its issues. My wife and I moved here in 1998 after considering a number of towns like Jackson, Wy, San Diego, Ventura, the Bay Area, Portland, Seattle, Flagstaff, and even Madison, WI. We were looking for a place that would allow quick easy access to outdoor activities, a reasonable cost of living, and decent job prospects.

After all was said and done, we settled on Austin because it had 90% of what we were looking for and was still within a few hours of our family. We have been very happy here. We live in a close-in, 40s era neighborhood that allows us to escape most the of the area's traffic woes. We can usually plan our trips so that we rarely ever deal w/the traffic.

Austin has a wonderful, vibrant culture. The closer in to town you live, the more there is to take advantage of. Austin is well known for its music scene. There is a decent selection of places to eat and things to do. The people are friendly and the population is very accepting of different cultures, religions, and sexual orientations.

As for the weather, it does get stupid hot here in the Summers (usually mid-June until the end of September). The rest of the year is just fine. The key is to plan your rides and activities before it gets too hot (usually need to be back in by noon).

From a cycling perspective, Austin historically has had a great cycling scene and climate. We have many great routes that offer challenging or easy terrain.

However, Austin is a place that is experiencing a tremendous amount of growth right now in every direction from town. As a cyclist, this is frustrating due to the degradation in cycling routes from my front door. It is getting so that you have to drive a bit out of town to escape the traffic when you ride. Big box stores and huge strip shopping centers continue to be built around the outskirts of town which increases the amount of traffic that we have to deal with. Sadly, it's beginning to look more like Dallas or "Anywhere USA" everyday. We even have a Galleria now!

With that said, we are thinking about other places ourselves. Each day I find myself spending time on www.city-data.com looking at other towns. Most are in California (Arcata, Chico, Paradise, Auburn) along with a few others such as Fayetteville, AR or Asheville, NC.

Austin may be getting too big for us.

Texbike

[texbike]

This is a great little town with a lot of German heritage. It is within 45 minutes of either San Antonio or Austin (just about in the middle of the two) and sits on the Eastern edge of the Texas Hill Country.

It is a really cute little town with a beautiful town square and the Guadalupe River running through the middle of it (along with the Comal River which is the shortest river in Texas). Both rivers are beautiful and attract people from all over the state. It has close, easy access to healthcare and the two metropolitan areas mentioned above.

There is a fantastic Octoberfest type celebration in town every year called WurstFest (a tribute to sausage complete with polka bands, German beer, etc). Gruene is a smaller town just outside of New Braunfels that has the oldest, continually operating dancehall in Texas (Gruene Hall).

NB is close to a couple of really nice lakes and a lot of nice hills. Plenty of decent riding routes from town for either hilly or flatter rides. In fact, take a look at a couple of the pics from last weekend's race that was held just outside of town: http://cyclepics.smugmug.com/gallery/2452462/1#P-3-9 .

This will give you an idea of the typical terrain for the area.

Anyway, more info is available at: http://www.city-data.com/city/New-Braunfels-Texas.html .

Cheers,

Texbike

[Steelhead]

If you are heading to the DFW metroplex, live/work/play in Fort Worth. Much better city than snotty Dallas and better cycling access as well.

Don't come here to Austin - it sucks. ;)

[PBWrench]

Check ot Nashville. I lived there several years ago and loved it. Summers are warm but not overly humid. Winter is non-existent and spring and fall are glorious. Great cultural musical scene. Wonderful cycling. No state income tax! The only downer is the weak public school system courtesy of no state tax.

[cmg]

san antonio, hill country to north, Kerrville/ new braunfels/fredriskburg and flatlands to the south. oh yea it does get hot in the summer, may -oct. i'm local so i like it. low cost of living, but plenty of roads to ride. the cycling clubs have rides all year long. in the last 40yrs it's probably snowed a handful of times.

[RPS]

I’m probably the exception to the rule but after 20 years in Texas, heat doesn’t bother me at all. I prefer to ride in June through August in 90 to 100 F than have to deal with 40 to 50 F in the winter. I think it’s a matter of what you get used to, and it takes a few years to acclimate to heat just as it does cold. Southeast Texas is as far north as I’ve lived; so high temperatures with high humidity have always been a part of my life and seem normal.

The first couple of summers are the worse for most people who relocate from northern states but it gets easier with time. People who are older, larger, and/or heavier sometimes struggle with the heat quite a bit more.

The Hill Country – around Fredericksburg -- is my favorite area to ride, and the weather is not quite as humid. Career opportunities, school options, medical care, etc… are probably not on par with larger cities like Houston; but neither is traffic or the craziness that goes with being the 4th largest city in the US.

[Larry]

The positive side of Dallas.............
1. In spite of being a large city, it still has a small town feel....REALLY!
2. On the north side, folks are (in my experience) quite nice.
3. Schools are definitely above average, and students are required
to put forth the effort. Yes....studying is required!
4. You will find an increased cultural diversity over the last 20 years.
5. Dallas has a Symphony Center that is an acoustical marvel.
6. Pro sport teams to keep you fans filing in.
7. Restaurants all over the area.
8. In North Dallas, roads run north/south and east/west in direction
without alot of winding and twisting. It really is easy geting around
in the suburbs. But......avoid the evil beast THE HIGH FIVE.
It consumes peoples cars.
9. Almost all of the suburbs have their own cultural center or
concert hall.
10. Most people really are not snotty in Dallas. This element exists
everywhere in the U.S. If you see it, ignore it.

[djg]

Southern California has beautiful weather -- usually -- but the cost of living can run from high to staggering, depending on where you prefer to be.

What about North Carolina? There is some winter weather, especially in the mountains, but the Raleigh/Durham/CH area (which has a lot to offer) tends to have mild and relatively brief winters. Summer can be hot and humid, but the retreat to the mountains (or the beach, for that matter) is easy.

My only visits to Texas have been to Houston. The last one was in May--I boarded a plane in Washington at Ronnie National Airport on a very warm day and arrived to find the sort of air I figure must have inhabited the hot box in Cool Hand Luke. Think Calcutta, but with better bbq (and some nice cultural offerings, actually).

[Climb01742]

another interesting part of america is the russian river valley in california. beautiful but not as expensive as other parts of cali.

[michael white]

NC is awful! Just look at the bbq: it's PORK for crying out loud! How can it be any good? Don't come! I've been here 12 years, the worst years of my life!

[dbrk]

snip... Think Calcutta, but with better bbq (and some nice cultural offerings, actually).

I've lived in Calcultta, not for very long, mind you, but long enough to ride a bicycle about. Now _that_ is an interesting experience. The curry is waaaaay better than in Texas, btw, at least atmoimhoclko. I wouldn't give this up for anywhere warmer year around, despite our 100 inches of snow each winter...

dbrk

[trophyoftexas]

Now, don't get me wrong, I really like Dallas, just wouldn't want to live there! I go to Dallas an average of probably once a week, more in the summer to ride White Rock Lake and check out the women jogger's! I just try to get in and out at times I can avoid the traffic delays...delays which are really no worse than those I've been in while visiting St. Louis, Nashville, and many other of what I call "small-big towns." And Larry is right, the layout of the streets is very easy to learn and pretty efficient most of the time.

But about half of the damn place is DRY! I don't mean 'no rain' I mean DRY, no BEER! Nothing quite like living in the Bible Belt where they preach all day Sunday (and Wednesday night!) about the evils of drink....then, when the option is up for vote at the polls, well, all those do-gooder's go to the polls drunk and vote us dry! Crap, I'm in Sulphur Springs and have to drive 15 miles into a wet area to get a beer or a bottle of red!

As I've always said, if your preacher is telling you that the wine of biblical times was unfermented just how in the hell can you trust his other interpretations of scripture!!!???

Sometimes I'm not real popular with the local church crowd.....I've got a stack, really, a stack of framed quotes that say "God in his goodness sent the grape, to cheer both great and small....little fools drink too much, BIG FOOLS not at all.".....I give these out to people that come into the studio all of the time! You CAN take a bottle of wine into the local Italian food rest. here in SS, which really is kind of nice because I can take in better wine than I could afford to buy if they were serving the same. The guys that own the place LOVE it because I come in almost every Sunday just about the time the local Baptist church is letting out....he likes the fact that I will sit there either by myself or with wife and family and relax, "romance" my food and wine, and show the locals that you aren't necessarily a drunk or misfit just because you enjoy the heavenly gift of the grape.

Guess I'm preaching to the choir here on THIS forum, right!!?? Having said all of that, cheer's, I'm going for a glass of vino....FOR BREAKFAST, heck, it's 5 o'clock somewhere! :banana:

[RPS]

My only visits to Texas have been to Houston. The last one was in May--I boarded a plane in Washington at Ronnie National Airport on a very warm day and arrived to find the sort of air I figure must have inhabited the hot box in Cool Hand Luke. Think Calcutta, but with better bbq (and some nice cultural offerings, actually).When the air is that hot and humid, you can get a good aerobic workout without pushing your legs as hard. For me a heat index of 100 beats riding in 100 F with only 4 or 5 percent humidity in parts of southern California. It's not that bad once you get used to it, particularly if you ride early in the morning.

[Archibald]

This whole thread is an oxymoron. There is no "quality of living" in Texas!

- Archi "former resident of Texas who escaped the land of suburban housewives driving 1-ton duallies and men who dress like cowboys that have never set their azz upon a horse and the closest they get to a cow is the triple stack at the local Whataburger" Bald.

[Bud]

We lived in Houston for 3 years before moving to the Boulder area. All I can say is that we did our time and we'll be happy not to live in TX again. As Rockdude and others have said, it's not a great place for outdoor activities, etc. Low cost of living for sure, but we also found it to be a low quality of living (unless you consider massive quantities of cheap food and mall shopping to be recreational). No offense, texans, but it's just not for us. Live there for a few years if you want to make a bankroll, then bail. :cool:

[Larry]

Now, don't get me wrong, I really like Dallas, just wouldn't want to live there! I go to Dallas an average of probably once a week, more in the summer to ride White Rock Lake and check out the women jogger's! I just try to get in and out at times I can avoid the traffic delays...delays which are really no worse than those I've been in while visiting St. Louis, Nashville, and many other of what I call "small-big towns." And Larry is right, the layout of the streets is very easy to learn and pretty efficient most of the time.

But about half of the damn place is DRY! I don't mean 'no rain' I mean DRY, no BEER! Nothing quite like living in the Bible Belt where they preach all day Sunday (and Wednesday night!) about the evils of drink....then, when the option is up for vote at the polls, well, all those do-gooder's go to the polls drunk and vote us dry! Crap, I'm in Sulphur Springs and have to drive 15 miles into a wet area to get a beer or a bottle of red!

As I've always said, if your preacher is telling you that the wine of biblical times was unfermented just how in the hell can you trust his other interpretations of scripture!!!???

Sometimes I'm not real popular with the local church crowd.....I've got a stack, really, a stack of framed quotes that say "God in his goodness sent the grape, to cheer both great and small....little fools drink too much, BIG FOOLS not at all.".....I give these out to people that come into the studio all of the time! You CAN take a bottle of wine into the local Italian food rest. here in SS, which really is kind of nice because I can take in better wine than I could afford to buy if they were serving the same. The guys that own the place LOVE it because I come in almost every Sunday just about the time the local Baptist church is letting out....he likes the fact that I will sit there either by myself or with wife and family and relax, "romance" my food and wine, and show the locals that you aren't necessarily a drunk or misfit just because you enjoy the heavenly gift of the grape.

Guess I'm preaching to the choir here on THIS forum, right!!?? Having said all of that, cheer's, I'm going for a glass of vino....FOR BREAKFAST, heck, it's 5 o'clock somewhere! :banana:

I live in east Richardson. There is an excellent Sigel's wine and liquor store
8 minutes away. Plano is not dry......only DRUNK!! .....Drugs, too.
You have to find the right spots to buy alcohol in the suburbs, and I would be glad to inform you of the better places, if you so desire. They are close to RBM.

Yes....you are in the Baptist belt. But......find a good Methodist or Presbyterian church around this area, and you will find out that they
are steady social drinkers.

I have participated in three Baptist music mission trips over seas.
I drank without reservation.....but this was a more liberal Baptist
Church. I loved the Hoffbrau Houses in Germany, and the neighborhood
bar in Northern England. WAY FUN !!

Larry

[Z3c]

All,

Wow; when someone asks for some help on this site you get it! Thanks for all of the responses; I truly appreciate the time that has been spent by many of you to post meaningful info and opinions! My wife and I are finding this move to be really challenging as we are open/able to move anywhere we would like as long as the cost of living and schools are reasonable.. Having been to Boulder for the fiirst time this winter on 2 occasions for Serotta events, it would seem that we would not be escaping winter.. Otherwise it certainly seems like a neat town. Clearly Tx has fans and detractors; I guess I am not sure how to interpret all of that at this point.. Is it too hot?? Finishing a nice ride and jumping into a pool doesn't sound bad; but I realize that is a simplistic answer.. I guess the quest for a decision continues.

Thanks,

Scott

[trophyoftexas]

I'm a Michigander by birth and lived their until I was 28, except for 4 years in school in Houston. Married a Houston girl, had friends in north Texas, tried Michigan again for a couple of years.....wife couldn't handle the winter. We moved to Texas for good in 1977 and have lived in small Texas towns in the northern part of the State ever since.

Here is my take on moving to Texas....take a map of the state,go just west of Austin and NW of San Antonio, take a dart and try to hit anyone of the countless nice little towns and you can miss! I spend lots of time and money every year driving down to the Hill Country to hang out and ride, it's great! I spend about 30 days a year riding in that area, it's a 350 mile drive from here but I've done the drive time just to ride for two days! Hot in the summer, yup, that's why God invented 7AM as a ride-start time in the middle of the year....get it done by Noon and you'll have no problems! You will have to be prepared to deal with small town thinking from time to time but, really, it's not any worse here than in some of the small towns UP NORTH in Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc. But you'd better come quick because cost of living is going up in these nice places and property is becoming very expensive....at least no State income tax helps off set some of that. Comfort, Texas is a nice small town that is growing but not too fast, right on I-10 so easy access by car to SA, Austin, Kerrville, nice little place....Bourne is really nice, too, but it will soon be sucked up by San Antonio, property there has rocketed out of sight FAST! As to who you will find to ride with.....when I get out into the hills around Fredericksburg, especially on weekend, I often see more riders than cars and trucks, no kidding! A couple of other real plus factors to me are some neat little places to eat and hang out, as per Luckenbach, and if you settle in the Comfort-Fredericksburg-Marble Falls triangle you will be with about 20+ miles of about 14-15 nice wineries and vineyards! THAT is pretty cool I think! Nice places to go and relax and sample some of the up and coming local wines, not California yet but they are trying hard to be classy without loosing the local-personality flavor.

Come on down, just don't settle in one of the bigger cities, you can save Colorado, California, Oregon, etc. for some of those great mid-summer get aways like most of us do......I try to do the Traverse City, Michigan thing twice a year, once in mid-summer when it's hotter 'n' hell down here and then again in mid-September to try to catch a little taste of early fall up there!

[rwsaunders]

Follow George Hincapie to the hills of South Carolina.

[Smiley]

Scott , How could you trade in your KC Chiefs alliance to be a COWBOY fan of all things evil :banana: A true Skins fan , Smiley

[djg]

I've lived in Calcultta, not for very long, mind you, but long enough to ride a bicycle about. Now _that_ is an interesting experience. The curry is waaaaay better than in Texas, btw, at least atmoimhoclko. I wouldn't give this up for anywhere warmer year around, despite our 100 inches of snow each winter...

dbrk

I believe ya. I'm not really much of a curry maven, although I like what I like, and quite frankly, my bbq tastes run much more to Texas beef brisket than Carolina pulled chazerai. Still, I like NC.

I get kinda misty when I see pictures of your glacial hills--a fair bit of my growing up was done near Rochester and I did a good bit of my not-so-good high school ski racing on the slopes of Bristol "Mountain." I gather you've got a bit more snow on those hills this week than we see in the picture.

[ada@prorider.or]

i would travel the world see it all ,experiance it all
the i would sit down and die
in
amsterdam
or
new amsterdam

[rdparadise]

Dude, I would consider North Carolina if you're looking for more moderate weather, reasonable cost of living and outdoor activities. While I have never lived in NC myself, I know a few people who have and they love it. I hear it's the fastest growing state in the union currently, and that must be for good reason.

It has some beauitiful biking, hiking, etc, in the western part of the state with the Blue Ridge Parkway, a national park mind you, and some of the best beaches I've ever seen. Charlotte is a growing town with much to offer.

I live in southern NJ and grew up in New England so I know about cold winters. This won is unique after a really mild December and early January. I know the temps in NC are much more moderate than here, especially during the winter.

I also agree with others regarding San Diego, CA. while the cost of living is ridiculous, you can't beat the moderate year around temperatures they have there. My sister and brother-in-law moved out there for employment reasons back in 2003. My sister loves the seasons, however, my brother in law enjoys the moderate temps. There development has a clubhouse and pool that is open year round. Can't beat that for moderate temps. I've been there in July and can attest that sweaters are needed in the evening to combat the chill that comes over the place when the fog rolls in.

I've been to Dallas and wouldn't live there if you paid me. Sorry Texans, just not my cup of tea.

Bob

[michael white]

[ I know the temps in NC are much more moderate than here.

I would comment, but sorry, gotta go for a ride.

best,

mike
wilmington nc

[RPS]

This whole thread is an oxymoron. There is no "quality of living" in Texas!

- Archi "former resident of Texas who escaped the land of suburban housewives driving 1-ton duallies and men who dress like cowboys that have never set their azz upon a horse and the closest they get to a cow is the triple stack at the local Whataburger" Bald.What's wrong with duallies.......not that I have one.

Considering that it's one of the most populated states in the nation, a lot of people obviously disagree on what "quality of living" means to them.

[trophyoftexas]

That is what JD should have written and sung about! IF I ever move from Texas it will be to the western side of North Carolina, great riding...lots of dogs but great riding! My friends and I did a vacation trip there last June and on one little twenty two mile ride in the hills be got dog chased....CHASED, not barked at SIX TIMES! It was rainy and slick and really P!$$ed me off, but like a true friend, on the sixth attack I sprinted and left my buddy to his own defenses! :D

[Archibald]

What's wrong with duallies.......not that I have one.

Considering that it's one of the most populated states in the nation, a lot of people obviously disagree on what "quality of living" means to them.9-mpg to shop for cowgirl outfits is what's wrong with duallies. :crap:

Lot of people live in Darfur or Somalia or China or New Orleans but what's the population of Texas have to do with quality of living? Texas is a black hole, not that there isn't some Hawkin's radiation from the place mind you, but generally, it sucks. Without getting all political, a whole lot of sheeple voted for Bush too. Doesn't mean they know anything about quality of living and besides, I've never put a lot of stock in what large groups of people do.

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/conformity.jpg

:banana:

[11.4]

Oh come on now, some of you.

Texas has

1. a collection of the finest art institutions in the country (HMFA, De Menil, Kimball, ...),
2. one of the best and certainly most innovative opera companies (Houston Opera),
3. one of the best regarded ballets (Houston Ballet),
4. excellent rock, country, and other music if you're into that kind of thing,
5. some of the finest healthcare facilities you can find anywhere,
6. lots of good bike shops everywhere,
7. two tracks (Frisco and Alkek),
8. good road riding -- even when you're having to depart from in-town, it still beats departing from in-town Los Angeles, New York City, Boston, Chicago, and so on ... where you never get out of town and the conditions are much much worse (and once you get out of town it's superb),
9. all kinds of alternative outdoor and sports activities (and I'm not talking about sitting on the sofa watching the Cowboys),
10. a collection of superb universities where you can pursue another degree or just your curiosity and do so at low in-state rates.

I used to live in Texas and worked in Houston, Austin, and Dallas. I go back frequently. My last stop I lived north of the university a ways and typically rode south on training rides. Twenty years ago I had to get below Manchaca if heading dead south or past Oak Hill if heading towards Driftwood to get out of urban clutter. Today I'd say I am country roads at those same points -- the growth has been more west and north, where there aren't as many road options anyway. There are definitely more turnoffs for new housing developments on 1826 and even an ugly big development right behind Driftwood, but the roads are still great, the traffic isn't bad, and people are also used to having riders around.

Heat, yes. I regularly used to ride what was known as the Heat Patrol, the summer ride for those who couldn't leave til after work or school. You do get used to it and you learn to watch your water intake, etc. Frankly, if it's between acclimating to heat and acclimating to sub-freezing temperatures, ice, and rain, I'd pick the former. That's me, of course. Austin is relatively dry so the heat isn't as bad. Houston is definitely humid and DFW isn't dry, but they aren't that bad. Lots of good riding and racing goes on. Yes, San Diego is better, but then you have to deal with congestion, cost, and the fact that everyone you pass seems to be riding an Ottrott or Meivici (or is completely Weight-Weenied out with little German tidbits on a $12000 bike).

If you go for the smaller towns outside the big ones in Texas (or outside San Diego for that matter) you tend to be at the turnaround point on rides rather than the beginning, so bear that in mind. If you like to ride in groups, plan on being closer in, which means that affordability is important. Austin is pretty good for that and in DFW, being in the communities in the middle between Dallas and Fort Worth is a fairly practical place to start. But still, after you've lived in big cities elsewhere, those in Texas are quite spread out but not inhospitable for riding. And the cycling community is consistently good -- you can ride by yourself anywhere, but part of what makes training so pleasurable is doing it with others.

[obtuse]

i have only ever driven through or flown through texas....so i haven't really a clue what i am talking about.

suffice it to say though that no where else in the world can you see the largest cross in the western hemisphere (the dude running the place told me "the papists in portugal have got a bigger one") and gigantic golf carts hauling entire overweight families. i saw one cart in the houston airport complete with a 300 pound grandma, 400 pound pa, 300 pound ma and three kids each over 200 hundred pounds and not in junior high-school yet. the best part was that each one of these six people had their own bucket of kentucky fried chicken.

my limited experience texas also involved driving two hours to get beer once during a cross country road trip.

obtuse

[Archibald]

my limited experience texas also involved driving two hours to get beer once during a cross country road trip.

obtuse
Typical. I ended one trip with me spending a few nights in Cleburne County Jail for drinking a beer outside in Burleson, Texas. At the time, bail was difficult to come by. Is that any way to support the troops? Praise be the Bible belt. The old joke in Texas is: the Catholics don't recognize the Jews; the Protestants don't recognize the Catholics; and the Baptists don't recognize each other in the liquor store.

Or something like that.

:banana:

[trophyoftexas]

The old joke in Texas is: the Catholics don't recognize the Jews; the Protestants don't recognize the Catholics; and the Baptists don't recognize each other in the liquor store.

Or something like that.

:banana:

My favorite is: when you go fishing with a Baptist, how do you keep him from drinking your beer? Easy, take another Baptist!

Second favorite: Why don't Baptist make love standing up? Someone might think they were dancing!

Now, before anyone gets upset or offended, some of my best friends attend First Baptist Church...in fact, their assoc. pastor rides with us on a regular basis.....he thinks the jokes are funny and probably retells them himself!

[molly22]

i would be negligent if i didn't share my experience. to say i dislike texas (i'm in the dfw area) would be a gross understatement. there is absolutely nothing i like about this area. not only is it unbearably hot, the cost of electricity is STAGGERING. i've had four figure electric bills. water is also very expensive.

as far as my experience riding my bike, the cars fly down the roads with the drivers constantly on their cell phones. there are many narrow shoulderless roads. it's always windy. and somehow it's always a headwind.

i think there is a lot of crime too.

[michael white]

i would be negligent if i didn't share my experience. to say i dislike texas (i'm in the dfw area) would be a gross understatement. there is absolutely nothing i like about this area. not only is it unbearably hot, the cost of electricity is STAGGERING. i've had four figure electric bills. water is also very expensive.

as far as my experience riding my bike, the cars fly down the roads with the drivers constantly on their cell phones. there are many narrow shoulderless roads. it's always windy. and somehow it's always a headwind.

i think there is a lot of crime too.



what about the chicken fried steak with cream gravy?

[Louis]

i've had four figure electric bills. water is also very expensive.

Unbelievable. At what temperature do you set your thermostat? Does the house have any insulation at all? (If my summer bills are above $75 that's alot for me, and it does get quite hot in St Louis.)

Or do you need the electricity and water because you are growing "something" in the basement... :D

[molly22]

i'm a conservationist. it's three zones, i only keep one on during the day for the dogs. probably set it for 76. but when the overnight low is in the high 80s, the a/c is cranking.

[catulle]

i have only ever driven through or flown through texas....so i haven't really a clue what i am talking about.

suffice it to say though that no where else in the world can you see the largest cross in the western hemisphere (the dude running the place told me "the papists in portugal have got a bigger one") and gigantic golf carts hauling entire overweight families. i saw one cart in the houston airport complete with a 300 pound grandma, 400 pound pa, 300 pound ma and three kids each over 200 hundred pounds and not in junior high-school yet. the best part was that each one of these six people had their own bucket of kentucky fried chicken.

my limited experience texas also involved driving two hours to get beer once during a cross country road trip.

obtuse


Some cart. It must've had a 440 Hemi engine, atmo...

[Archibald]

Some cart. It must've had a 440 Hemi engine, atmo...
For the sake of technical accurary, that would be a 426 hemi. Or, if you're talking about the older pattern, it'd be a 392 or the earlier 331.

Archi "who used to have bad-azz 392 Hemi in a '53 Ford pickup" bald

[RPS]

Lot of people live in Darfur or Somalia or China or New Orleans but what's the population of Texas have to do with quality of living? Texas is a black hole, not that there isn't some Hawkin's radiation from the place mind you, but generally, it sucks. Without getting all political, a whole lot of sheeple voted for Bush too. Doesn't mean they know anything about quality of living and besides, I've never put a lot of stock in what large groups of people do.The difference is that most Texans live in Texas because they want to and not because they have to -- the only fence we have is to keep people out, not to keep them here.

As for Bush, didn't it take more than Texans to elect him? He did carry some of the states that are being discussed as great places to live, right? Anyway, at least he rides a bike.

[trophyoftexas]

....."You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas!"

Of course, he CAME to Texas and promptly got himself killed! No, he wasn't riding on one of the famous Texas chip and seal service roads!

[marle]

i would travel the world see it all ,experiance it all
the i would sit down and die
in
amsterdam
or
new amsterdam


+1

[MartyE]

.....one of the famous Texas chip and seal service roads!

and ain't that the truth. It's more like "rock and tar" than chips. Guarandamnteed
to rattle loose every nut and bolt on your bike within 50 miles of your starting point.
In 7 years of riding here I've never had anything thrown at me, never
been yelled at (well one blind lady whistled at me) or harassed while riding.
For the most part folks are pretty well mannered.
North Dallas (plano/Frisco) is not growing it's sprawling its difficult to find a nice
quite country road to ride on. Another place to consider is Denton, close to DFW close to real country and it's not a dry county.

Marty

[m_moses]

Texas is FULL! We apologize but we're closed and not taking any more transplants. Well, accept for that 11.4 guy . . . we'll let him in.

Y'all don't wanna come here anyway cuz we're all fat, dumb and ugly . . . and sweaty too. ;)

[Kevan]

Is global warming bringing the palm trees to your neighborhood? Maybe you needn't move. I don't intend to stir up a Gore debate here, but if you are a believer of such...why not just sit still and wait for the warm weather to come to you?

Here in southern NY, our 2006 riding season was comfortably extended into 2007 for the first 2 weeks of January. We are now in the midst of true winter weather conditions, but who knows what March and April will be like.

Secondly, road count is a consideration. I wouldn't want to move to an area where I basically would have to ride the same roads over and over again. While these regions of the country are growing fewer, I'd also be concerned about the places that are busy developing; today's country lane might well turn into tomorrow's major artery. Watch out!

You'd be better off finding somewhere already established, where growth has slowed down some, where you have choices in riding direction, and be satisfied with 10 months of good riding. That's what it looks like here in NY, 40 miles from Manhattan.

[ThasFACE]

I would also like Vermont or Maine, in spite of the cold. It probably costs alot to live in that area.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but does anyone have an opinion about the cycling in the portland, me area?

[C5 Golfer]

I'd suggest Seattle area; some say it rains here too much but its only 23 - 37 or so inches a year --that is not much. Some says it rains here every day-- it is a lie-- how could it if it only rains 23 - 37 inches a year?????? Maybe I just do not notice it anymore after 40 years of living here. :)

A couple of reasons it is nice to live here.. generally you do not need air-conditioning - in the winter you can snowboard/ski and the same day golf or bike ride or water ski. We are a two season climate - spring and fall - year round you can bike, hike, drive, kayak, tennis, volleyball, rest of ball sports, fish, rock climb, mountain climb, snowboard till end of August. We generally know nothing about winter or summer in the Seattle met area, mountains get it but we are at sea level so it is spring or fall. The one thing I'd caution you about, come May if you want to stay -- do not come in November/December - it is scary. :beer:

http://www.beautifulseattle.com/clisea.htm

[davids]

As I've always said, if your preacher is telling you that the wine of biblical times was unfermented just how in the hell can you trust his other interpretations of scripture!!!???I can't start Shabbat without three prayers of thanks - for light, for bread, and for wine. And on Purim (this is one happy holiday...) us Jews are instructed to get so drunk we can't distinguish between the righteous and the sinner. Not that I'm prostylatizing or anything...

good road riding -- even when you're having to depart from in-town, it still beats departing from in-town Los Angeles, New York City, Boston, Chicago, and so on ... where you never get out of town and the conditions are much much worse (and once you get out of town it's superb)??? I live in Boston, and can be on quiet roads in 15 minutes, and country roads in 30. And I'm slow.

As far as Texas, I got nothing.

[stevep]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but does anyone have an opinion about the cycling in the portland, me area?

very good riding in portland area and a lot of enthusiasts.
also note in western maine ( not near the coast but not in the hinetrlands either ) you can buy land for very cheap money and housing as well...
check out a town like harrison or cornish or soemwhere near there.
plenty of lakes, dirt roads.. nice if you can figure out a way to make a living.

[nm87710]

OP, Fergots to mention ain't no govmint income tax in Tejas.
Just might be impotant if ya gots income. :)

[slowgoing]

Work has taken me East Texas quite a bit lately, including Texarkana. I must admit, I have been pleasantly surprised. Rolling hills, greenery everywhere. It reminds me of North Carolina. The people are also very proud of the area and quick to point out that they are from EAST Texas, not some other hot(ter) or dry part of the state.

[rpm]

No specific advice, but the general suggestion to look for a college town. If you read all the places rated articles, you'll always find college towns at the top. The reason being is that they tend to have more culture and amentities than other places of their size. Plus they also tend to be bike-friendly, what with all the students and pointy-headed professors who can't park their bikes straight. And if you're in any sort of techie or knowledge industry profession, they are likely to have reasonable job possibilies.

Think Boulder, Bozeman, Raleigh, Madison, Davis etc. And if your limit your search to warm weather college towns, you might find some serious possibilities that you might not have considered, like Oxford, Miss. Austin would certainly make the list, but I don't know about College Station. The main problem with Texas is that it's full of Texans. (Yo, just kidding, guys!)

[Tailwinds]

As "they" say, Texas is a good place to be from.

I would never never never never never never never want to move back to TX! If you don't mind rude drivers, just move to FL. It's warm, beautiful, and at least you can go to the beach without getting tar on your feet or your bathing suit turning brown -- YUCK!

I vote for Denver. Yes, this winter has sucked for cycling here, but this is a record-setting cold/snowy winter. Hopefully, everything will return to "normal" next winter -- or I might be on this forum next year asking about other places to live.

Or -- how about Durango or Grand Junction? A little lower, thus a little milder winters... and cycling-friendly!

[Ken Robb]

If I could have the beauty and wonderful roads of the Finger Lakes and the weather of San Diego I'd be very happy. I guess I'm stuck with the weather--and the ahi tacos.

[Kevan]

If I could have the beauty and wonderful roads of the Finger Lakes and the weather of San Diego I'd be very happy. I guess I'm stuck with the weather--and the ahi tacos.

ain't fair.

[Birddog]

That's pretty much how we handle the heat. The cost of living is low enough in TX that we just pack up the heard and head to the cool mountains for the summer.
That's quite enough info, much more than that and the mountains will start to feel crowded. FWIW, I just got back, had to delay my departure time to shovel my roof. Well over 100" in the valley this year, about 24" standing in the yard. Skiing is great however.
To the OP, I'd take the Ft Worth area over the Dallas area. Someone said to ride early, and that's the ticket. Try and finish by noon or so on the oppressive days (there will be 60 or more). I'm surprised all this talk of Texas and nobody has mentioned Amarillo, the "Heart of the Golden Spread"!, and not too far from the big cross obtuse mentioned.

Birddog

[Z3c]

Again, thanks to everyone for the ideas and suggestions.. I think at this point we are somewhat focused on north Dallas around Rockwall or else Austin. Frankly, the "different" culture in Austin has some appeal.. Somewhat concerned about the growth pace though.. I think we will probably try and go check these places out this summer..

Hey Smiley; I am not a Chiefs fan.. Go Dolphins(long story!).. I will never root for the Cowboys!

Take care,

Scott

[Pro Recruiter]

Again, thanks to everyone for the ideas and suggestions.. I think at this point we are somewhat focused on north Dallas around Rockwall or else Austin. Frankly, the "different" culture in Austion has some appeal.. Somewhat concerned about the growth pace though.. I think we will probably try and go check these places out this summer..

Hey Smiley; I am not a Chiefs fan.. Go Dolphins(long story!).. I will never root for the Cowboys!

Take care,

Scott

If you are indeed looking at Austin you might want to concentrate to the north: Georgetown/Round Rock/Pflugerville Cost of living is far less, and with the new toll road access to Austin (and the airport) is minutes away.

As for riding Austin wins for the topography category, Dallas wins for the competiton(depth-field size)/lifestyle category.

I lived in the H.E.B (Hurst/Euless/Bedford) centrally located area and would recommended it over Rockwall, and if it's for the lake you have Lake Grapevine there (great Mtb'ing) Fort Worth and Dallas are 30 minutes either way. You will have trouble on weekends deciding which group(s) to ride with.


I have access to whatever career #'s/info you would need for either place just IM me. I moved here from Houston several years ago (I am 50 miles north of Austin) to a town of 50K and it's great. Great riding and small town life. A great place to raise kids. I am two hrs away from Dallas,Houston and San Antonio. Austin is less than an hour and Waco is 30 minutes. We have a brand new regional airport in Killeen that can connnect to direct flights out of Houston or Dallas in less than 45 minutes. Housing is ridiculously cheap here, But wages do not support metro market prices.

My .02 cents:
Career/salary$$/opportunity
Dallas
Houston
Austin

Housing cost of living$$
Dallas
Austin
Houston

Traffic
All are bad

Night Life/Sports/Dining
Dallas
Austin
Houston

Riding/outdoor activiites
Austin
Dallas
Houston

[texbike]

Again, thanks to everyone for the ideas and suggestions.. I think at this point we are somewhat focused on north Dallas around Rockwall or else Austin. Frankly, the "different" culture in Austion has some appeal.. Somewhat concerned about the growth pace though.. I think we will probably try and go check these places out this summer..

Hey Smiley; I am not a Chiefs fan.. Go Dolphins(long story!).. I will never root for the Cowboys!

Take care,

Scott


Scott,

Send me an PM when you come to town. I'd be happy to make you a list of things to see and do while here.

Cheers,

Texbike