randoneering

[Serotta PETE]

I am in the winter mood for shopping......Spring fever with no spring. :)

THe bike that Andrew posted, I really likes (but no S&S for I have a travel bike)


Thinking of getting a Ti randoneering type bike.

What should I be getting in regard to attachments,,,,,,

eyelets
??
color or natrural
type fork
etc....

Help me design my frame

What componenets to put on it.....

You all can try it at the JUNE OPEN HOUSE in SARATOGA.

THANKS PETE

[Ozz]

Should we assume it will be a Serotta?? :p

If not, those Tournesols are pretty sweet....

[Serotta PETE]

Ozz,, you know I a very biased. It will be a Serotta and I need help from the experts to make sure I have everything included in build sheet.

Then I will have it at the JUNE east coast OPEN house with a case of red for all to try bike and wine......

Flydhest & Smiley say I bring the same ole Ti to every SEROTTA event - so I want to be different this year. (AND bring the NEW ole ti)


Should we assume it will be a Serotta?? :p

If not, those Tournesols are pretty sweet....

[palincss]

Thinking of getting a Ti randoneering type bike.

What should I be getting in regard to attachments,,,,,,

eyelets
??
color or natrural
type fork
etc....

Help me design my frame

What componenets to put on it.....


If you want to mount fenders - good fenders are a blessing in the rain, and if you ride brevets chances are you'll be doing some of that - you'll need eyelets. You should also look for under the fork and under the brake bridge mounting points, and you should have the distances on the mounting points be correct. It's tough to get a good fender line if the mounting points are way off. I sholdn't need mention, but you'll need clearance to fit the fenders.

Your components should be durable. First thing is, you have to finish. You've got to be comfortable, because you're going to be on it for a long, long time. The bike needs to be easy to ride when you are tired. You need to carry enough with you to allow for proper clothing over the full range of temperature you'll encounter on a long ride. Ditto for supplies. You will need lights.

[Serotta PETE]

Thanks....I need all the specifics that you all can give..........in regard to components, eyelets, attachments, wheels, etc.....


If you want to mount fenders - good fenders are a blessing in the rain, and if you ride brevets chances are you'll be doing some of that - you'll need eyelets. You should also look for under the fork and under the brake bridge mounting points, and you should have the distances on the mounting points be correct. It's tough to get a good fender line if the mounting points are way off. I sholdn't need mention, but you'll need clearance to fit the fenders.

Your components should be durable. First thing is, you have to finish. You've got to be comfortable, because you're going to be on it for a long, long time. The bike needs to be easy to ride when you are tired. You need to carry enough with you to allow for proper clothing over the full range of temperature you'll encounter on a long ride. Ditto for supplies. You will need lights.

[72gmc]

One thing I especially enjoy about randonneur bikes is the range of styles. The dbrk/velo orange style is such a different aesthetic than the silver Serotta featured in the image gallery, but both look great.

What's your taste? Modern or classic? Any Serotta is going to be modern but you can add classic touches if you like. Might help focus the suggestions as well.

[dauwhe]

Lots of possibilities... I think much of the basic design will be determined by several factors:

* what size tires will you use?
* will you want fenders?
* how will you carry gear?
* what sort of lighting system will you have?

Our local RBA (regional brevet administrator) is a Serotta dealer, and rides an Ottrott on brevets. He uses one of those racks that attach to the seatpost, and usually no fenders. I would imagine the geometry is fairly normal. Can't remember if it has eyelets--some people who ride 'racy' bikes might use race blades or similar if it's going to rain a lot, and nothing otherwise.

I would at least go with eyelets and long-reach brakes (if possible). If you lean towards a racing-style bike, 25mm tires and the Berthoud carbon fenders might be cool.

Comfort is the most important thing, so anything you can do for that would be important--bigger tires, a saddle that absolutely works for you, perhaps a bit longer wheelbase...

I think the major consideration for components would be durability and low gears. Even if you can normally ride up anything in 39 x 26, hills will be different after thirty hours!

* * *

Personally, I've gravitated towards a different style of bike. I like much wider tires (27mm to 37mm). I love having a front handlebar bag so I can access food while riding, and with the cue sheet always visible. Good handling requires the bag be low and supported from below, so a front rack is needed. I refuse to ride without fenders. I don't like toe-clip overlap. The front rack is a great place for lights, so might as well arrange to attach them there.

The end result is much like the cyclotouriste bikes from France in the 1940s, but now even better (check out many of Peter Weigle's bikes). I'm (im)patiently waiting for my Tournesol to replace the Rivendell Saluki that I've adapted for randonneuring.

Lots of choices out there. Have fun and happy riding!

Dave

[scrooge]

I'm (im)patiently waiting for my Tournesol ...

Care to tell us more? No disrepsect to our hosts intended, but if I were going to get bike set up for Brevets, this is what I'd get...

[dauwhe]

Care to tell us more? No disrepsect to our hosts intended, but if I were going to get bike set up for Brevets, this is what I'd get...

Welded steel frame (built by Co-motion), fork made at Hampsten Towers, custom front rack, braze-ons for Paul Centerpull brakes...

It's the light blue frame in the photos here:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=291103&postcount=47

But Don's Ottrott is a nice bike too! It's a big tent--room for lots of different styles!

Dave

[vaxn8r]

I know you want a Serotta but spend some time looking at the Co-Motion Nor'wester with steel fork. Very well thought out and I've ridden one several times. It's a winner. I think I could be happy if that was my only bike if it came down to it. It's that good on the road while offering no compromises for lighter touring and commuting. Plenty of room for fenders and wider tires but rides and handles just like your regular road bike with a small weight penalty. Also spend some time looking at the Vanilla site. Dave Kirk's site as well. Between those sites you'll learn a lot.

I know Serotta can and will build your bike but they don't put much effort in marketing such bikes. Do the research first so you can tell them exactly what you want.

[Serotta PETE]

I really do need all you experts help.....

There are a few firm requirments though (this does not mean other brands/mft are not as good)

The only frame I will be getting is from SEREOTTA (yea I am VERY biased)

- Will use the TA Triple that DBRK was gracious to provide (Thanks again)
- Tires to be used - 28-35mm
- Campy or Shimano?
- Wheels?
- BARs/Stem
- Pump Peg
- Eyelets
- Fenders (DBRK has provided what I need for this) Yep French
- ??
=??


THANKS PETE

[Ozz]

Think thru the lighting system....clamp on / battery powered lights just won't do for this bike if you are going serious with it...

Those Son systems with the generator hubs are very cool...

Also, the Goodrich frame withe the custom rack in the image gallery is VERY well thought out...look there for ideas.

Have fun!

[dauwhe]

I really do need all you experts help.....

There are a few firm requirments though (this does not mean other brands/mft are not as good)

The only frame I will be getting is from SEROTTA (yea I am VERY biased)

- Will use the TA Triple that DBRK was gracious to provide (Thanks again)
- Tires to be used - 28-35mm
- Campy or Shimano?
- Wheels?
- BARs/Stem
- Pump Peg
- Eyelets
- Fenders (DBRK has provided what I need for this) Yep French


The TA crank should be great! For tires in that size, the Rivendell Roly-Poly and Avocet Duro are at the narrow end of the spectrum; I've used both in 300k brevets. You might consider the Grand Bois tire sold by Jan Heine. It's officially 29.5mm, but some have said it can measure up to 32mm. I've used the 650B version, and really like it (I used it for my 600k!).

I think classic handbuilt wheels would be perfect. Something like Velocity Aerohead or Synergy, 32 spokes, 3-cross, from Peter White, Ergott, or some other master... Durability, comfort, and repairability are key.

I'll let others argue about Campy vs. Shimano. You'll be spending literally days holding on to your brake hoods, so use what's comfortable. Lots of folks like bar-end or downtube shifters, partly because you can default to friction mode if there's a problem. I never got used to bar-ends, but like DT shifters, although I may try Campy Ergo on the upcoming bike.

Again, comfort is king for bars, saddles, and things like that. I'm very fond of the Nitto Noodle. It has a very shallow ramp, so the position just behind the hoods is extremely comfortable. And all things Nitto are beautiful!

Check out Peter White's website for lighting systems, wheels, baggage, etc. Some unbelievable percentage of his business must come from randonneurs. The wheels he built for me have been perfect over maybe 9,000 miles...

Sounds like you'll have a fabulous bike. Have you thought about color? That's the 2nd most important thing (fenders being first :))

Enjoy!

Dave

[dreadpiratetim]

For a true rando bike... check out the old French frames. Braze-ons for mudguards (fenders), racks (front & rear, even if you're not mounting a rear rack it's nice to have the flexibility), lights, pump peg, etc. Consider three water bottle mounts (one under the down tube).

Geometry doesn't have to be full-on touring, but a higher head tube will ease back pain at >600km. A lower bottom bracket helps with stability. Consider a slacker head tube angle... a little harder to get into a turn, but more stable over the long haul (think 24+ hours without sleep). Same with the seat tube angle. Chain stays should be a little longer than typical bikes built today... think 42-ish, especially to provide room for mudguards between the tire and the seat tube. Clearance for at least 28s, though 25s work just fine. Center pull brakes are nice, or long reach; remember that standard calipers won't clear your mudguards. For wheels, strength and ease of repair should be your primary concerns. More and more bikes are being built for 650s vs 700s, so that's another decision.

SON hubs are nice, although some of the newer LEDs work pretty well -- depending on your eyes. Some people just can't see well with LEDs and prefer incandescent. If you run incandescents, make sure you carry extra bulbs (and possibly a back-up light in case your front wheel fails). For a good background on lighting check out Peter White's website.

Bags are very individual. Brits prefer saddle bags (e.g., Carradice) and French prefer handlebar bags (e.g., Gilles Berthoud). Try to decide which you prefer before building your bike, as the weight distribution may dictate certain design considerations.

If you're planning to travel with the bike then S&S couplers are nice. Also for travel, a natural Ti finish hides scratches and buffs out easily. It's terrible to pull your beautiful bike out of the case to find a gouge in the paint. You're probably looking at a custom build for these features. On the other hand, a well-built lugged bike is a thing of beauty.

There are some great custom and semi-custom domestic builders at this point, Tournesol and Hampsten being just two at the top. The Co-Motion Nor'wester and IF Club Racer are solid choices, as are frames from Velo Orange, Rivendell and Heron. At the low(er) end of the price spectrum you can check out the Surly Long Haul Trucker.

ATMO you should decide how you like to ride and then build accordingly. If you're going for a sub-60 hour 1200 you likely will make different choices than if you're goal is 80+ hours. There's a lot of tradition around randonneurring, but no "right" choice. The choices are up to you, and there are lots of ways to figure out what works "best".

[Serotta PETE]

Thanks....everyone....Guess I better start wiritng the requirements up for the gang. I have been to Peter White, Velo Orange, Jihintsu, and a few others..

THANKS AGAIN> PETE

[manet]

pete first thing first _ you'll wanna size up _ usually quite a bit _ say to a 60cm _ let me know if you need more meanetments.

[Serotta PETE]

Will do - -- we can meet at Mike's and get him to take us to dinner and wine.

PETE


pete first thing first _ you'll wanna size up _ usually quite a bit _ say to a 60cm _ let me know if you need more meanetments.

[ispy]

Hi Pete,

Curious as to what forks you've considered... Seems to me that carbon forks don't support the additional niceties that characterize fully-integrated randonneur-ish bikes (e.g., nicely-done fenders, lights, internal wiring). Of course I'm assuming carbon since you said the bike would be Ti. But then I just remembered that dbrk has a ti Tournesol with a metal fork, which to me is a really beautiful idea (because I love the aesthetics of a nice swoopy fork with flat crown) even if the fork looked a wee bit delicate compared to the bike's OS tubing. Check out a nice review of this setup in VBQ, which also had a recent review of the Co-Motion that was mentioned earlier; they might not be set up the way you want but at least the comments are useful. Me, I just got in line for a Mariposa (!!!) so I'm taking notes from everyone's suggestions as well. Methinks however that Serotta will deliver way earlier than my 18+ months but that's OK, I'm looking forward to dreaming mine up with Mike Barry.

[palincss]

Hi Pete,

Curious as to what forks you've considered... Seems to me that carbon forks don't support the additional niceties that characterize fully-integrated randonneur-ish bikes (e.g., nicely-done fenders, lights, internal wiring). Of course I'm assuming carbon since you said the bike would be Ti. But then I just remembered that dbrk has a ti Tournesol with a metal fork, which to me is a really beautiful idea (because I love the aesthetics of a nice swoopy fork with flat crown) even if the fork looked a wee bit delicate compared to the bike's OS tubing. Check out a nice review of this setup in VBQ, which also had a recent review of the Co-Motion that was mentioned earlier; they might not be set up the way you want but at least the comments are useful.

One common thread you will find running through the [V]BQ reviews that you might want to take particular note of is the emphasis placed on controllability under a tired rider, and the resulting preference for low-trail geometries because of the decreased sensitivity to small inputs from the ground and their greater suitability for use with handlebar bags.

You might find the review of the Peter Weigle randonneur with the two forks to be of special interest - for several reasons, actually: both for the insight into the affect of the two geometries, and because you will find no better example of a truly perfect modern custom randonneuring bike. Peter Weigle is the Rene Herse of the modern generation of builders, I believe. Who knows, you may even find yourself seeking a spot on JPW's waiting list.