Beginning wheelbuilding

[wooly]

I'm thinking of trying this out but have no idea where to start. I assume start with a good book, truing stand, hubs, rims, spokes and nipples. Did I miss anything? Also, what books do you recommend.

Much appreciated,

Wheelbuilding White Belt

[MartyE]

Sheldon Brown's web site has good information, enough to get you
started. Jobst Brandt's book The Bicycle Wheel is the book if you want
to know more about bike wheels than you ever wanted, good instructions
too. The other book is Gerd Schraner's (sic)The Art of Wheel Building is reported
to be a great how to book (I haven't read this one).
While the truing stand is nice to have it is possible to build without one.
the one thing I'd suggest is either Spoke Prep (wheelsmith) or Nipple Cream by
Rock n' Roll.

Marty

[wooly]

I'm looking at some 07 record hubs (32 holes) on the classifieds. What rims and spokes would you suggest for this wheel build?

[Kevan]

but I know guys who have basically built up their own wheelset and then given them to a local shop to do the true-up. Kinda like painting by numbers.

Hey, but it's a step forward.

[MartyE]

first off I'm not the wheelbuilding maven on this board, I think
Ergott has that sewn up.
spokes? DT 14/15 gauge would be my first choice.
I think you can't go wrong with Mavic Reflex tubular rims but then
not everyone likes tubular, in that's the case I'd say maybe an Mavic Open Pro
rim.
There are lots of other good choices, a lot will depend on what type
of riding you plan on doing. I'm sure some other folks will chime in.


Marty

[sg8357]

I build wheels using a ruler taped to the seatstays.
Sheldons instructions are good, the how to in the Zinn road bike book is even easier to follow. Better pictures in the Zinn.

The spoke calc at the dtswiss web site has worked for me.
Pick something with zero dish, Campy rears are for Sufi-Zen masters.

Scott G.

[SoCalSteve]

Excel Sports will sell you the proper length spokes if you tell them the hubs and rims you want to use.

I built a set once. Was not happy the way they came out (and it took hours to get them that way)...I un-built them and had my lbs rebuild them for $30.00 a wheel (considering how much I get paid) it was well worth it.

Your results may vary.

Steve

As Ergott says patience is the most important tool you need.

[WickedWheels]

Wooly,

Building your own wheels is becoming a lost art mostly because it's not necessary. If you're looking for something ordinary, such as training wheels or climbing wheels or every-day wheels, there are MANY good pre-built options to be had. Often they are just as inexpensive (and sometime even more so) than hand-built wheels. The best reason to build your own wheels is if you're looking for something exceptional or unusual. However, if that's the case you probably shouldn't be building your own wheels if you're a rookie at it. When building something with super-low spoke count and super-high tension the process becomes more of an art than a science. This is mostly because most rims are not perfectly round and are not perfectly "flat", most spokes are not cut in exactly the same place, the threads don't start in exactly the same way. Most of the quality items are more than close enough for traditional builds, but with low spoke count, high tension wheels you have to have the experience to feel and hear the tension, in addition to using a tensiometer, and go beyond the "1/4 turn at a time" tecnique.

All of that being said...
Rims and spokes should correspond to your weight, riding style and intended use of the wheels. There are tons of good options. Some may be good for you but would be awful for someone else. Be careful in asking for blank recommendations. You will get advice on what will build a good wheels, but if you end up with a "good" wheelset you might as well buy a pre-built wheelset.

I don't know Ergott, have never seen his wheels, but they are getting good reviews on here. If nothing else it seems like he's built enough of them to know what's going on. He may be a good person to talk to. Someone like him should be able to steer you in the right general direction if you talk to him about your weight, riding style (spinner, gear masher, riding with finesse, etc), and intended application.

Best of luck!

WW

[ergott]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=288485&postcount=10

Minimum needs:

good spoke wrench (I have DT, Unior, and Hozan) Spokey is good and cheap.
grease
anti seize compound (preferred)
the dropouts of a bike

Recommended tools (if you plan on doing a few wheels of your own)
Truing stand (better stands are easier to use, but all do pretty much the same thing)
dish tool
tensiometer (Park)
Wheelsmith rim rods
2 vernier calipers (one with centering gauge)
small square

Here is some stuff they don’t tell you in the books.

I cannot stress the importance of measuring your parts instead of relying on manufacturers' numbers. The ERD of the rim (it's diameter) is the most important number to get right. There are other ways to measure, but the rim rods are by far, the best. I measure the rim in quadrants and average as most rims aren't perfectly round to begin with. It helps to get used to measuring your own rims as sometimes you cannot find published ERDs for older rims that you can find cheap on ebay. I can get a batch of rims from a company and have a variation of 1mm in the ERD.

I measure the hubs in the forks of my TS-3 stand as they are parallel, but you can use a small square to simulate the dropout and measure from the dropout to the center of the flange. Take this number and subtract it from 65mm (half the overall width of road hubs) for rear hubs and 50mm from front hubs. This measurement can be pretty far off from manufacturer's numbers, but a big shift doesn't effect spoke length that much.

An inexpensive set of vernier calipers with centering gauges (the MSC book is your friend, ask a hardware store to look stuff up for you or go online http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm)
That is how you get accurate flange diameters although honestly, this is the most consistent measurement with manufacturers' specs. Again, sometimes you can't find the measurements for hubs.

Once you have good numbers to works with, get this
http://www.damonrinard.com/spocalc.htm
I like this calc the best as not only do you get spoke length, you get tension ratios and you can store your measurements easily. The database measurements are off sometimes so don't rely on the all the time.

I usually subtract about 0.5mm from the results to get the lengths I need. Follow normal rounding rules when picking spokes. Try not to go more than 1mm off the number you get. I cut my spokes exactly, but not everyone has access to a spoke machine (I have been known to cut spokes for people).

Then follow the methods you can read about in Schraner's book or on Sheldon's website. There are variations for the procedures, but the goal is the same. You want even tension around the rim and a relatively true wheel. You don't want to sacrifice even tension for a perfectly true wheel, but most quality rims can get to pretty high standards if you are patient. I use dial gauges on my truing stand and my specs are +- 0.1mm for vertical and lateral true with a tension variation of less than 5% for each side. Some rims are too out of round for this, but 95% of good rims can fit this spec.

If you are at all worried, go to the LBS and get a cheap pair of wheels to start playing with or even ebay an old set of wheels. You could get luck and find the shop is throwing out a "worn out" set of wheels. You can find wheels for $100 or less that are pretty good. Just take them apart and start all over.

Patience grasshopper. Don't expect to finish off a set of wheels in one day. Plan on assembling a wheel or two wheels one day and truing them the next. Don't be afraid to walk away from the wheel and get a fresh look at them. Once you get a hand on which spokes to adjust, you can go quicker. As others have mentioned good wheels are more about routine procedures than art. If you have a well planned method, you can build wheels. There isn't much magic to it. Most people don't take the time to do them right and take shortcuts. Don't. There are no shortcuts to consistent results.

[ergott]

I'm looking at some 07 record hubs (32 holes) on the classifieds. What rims and spokes would you suggest for this wheel build?

Clinchers
Velocity Aeroheads or Fusions
Open Pros
Ambrosio Excellites (sp)
IRD rims

There are a lot to choose from. With a standard 32 spoke wheel I usually go with a shallow rim.

Sapim Race or DT Competition spokes are great spokes and will be easier to build with than lighter gauge spokes

brass nipples

[ergott]

Oh, and don't try to reinvent anything. 32 3X works just fine if you get those hubs.

[JF636]

Fist off...I am no master wheelsmith and responded more for moral support than technical advice. I do my own wheels for the enjoyment and satisfaction of knowing that I can fix them if needed....and personally like riding on them. ;)

So, for a general home wheelbuilder, I would agree with the above recomendations on starting with a box section rim 32 spoke / cross three pattern, with eyelets if possible. There are many clincher rims available, but I like tubulars and my mine main wheels are FiR ST120's in the above configuration....nothing fancy , but reliable and nice riding.

As a side note, I do like the fancy stuff and have a set of the old style deeprim, low spoke Vento's, but perfer my plain and boring homebuilts. I feel the biggest change in the way my bike feels by just swapping between the two sets.

The bicycle wheel is one of the most amazing pieces of art and science ever concieved and to finish your first set is very rewarding...so I say go for it. With the internet and forums, the information is there. Like Ergott said, be patient and don't cut corners....on the most important part of your bike (IMHO).

[wooly]

Thanks for the help. Where's a good source to buy the tools?

Eric - I'll never rival you bud. In fact, I'll be riding the wheels you built for me as I begin the quest. They just arrived today.

Wheel building has always intrigued me. It seems like a great challenge.

Wooly

[mosca]

Hey wooly,

I just noticed that you're in Newport Beach. I'm up the road in Costa Mesa - would be happy to loan you any tools you'd need if you'd like to "try before buying", so to speak. I can offer basic truing stand, spoke wrench, dishing tool, etc (no tensionometer yet), as well as some half-baked advice if necessary. Shoot me an email if interested.

mosca

[ergott]

Thanks for the help. Where's a good source to buy the tools?

Eric - I'll never rival you bud. In fact, I'll be riding the wheels you built for me as I begin the quest. They just arrived today.

Wheel building has always intrigued me. It seems like a great challenge.

Wooly


http://www.biketoolsetc.com/

[Peter P.]

1. Jobst Brandt's Book-The Bicycle Wheel

2. Get the best tools you can afford. Park Spoke Wrenches. Even if you buy a truing stand that "self centers" the wheel, you'll still need a dishing tool. And get a spoke ruler; it's very handy for differentiating between spokes which can differ by as little as a millimeter.

3. To start, don't build NEW wheels; disassemble your current wheels and re-assemble them until you're satisfied you've got it right. THEN build new ones. Start with the front wheel as ALL the spokes are the same length, and due to the lack of offset for a cassette, the tension among the left/right spokes is the same, making front wheels easier to get true and dished properly- a good thing for beginners.

TIP: for the rear wheel, keep the left side spokes separate from the right hand spokes. In most cases, they're different lengths.

[wooly]

Thanks for the offer! I'll PM you when I get the parts in.

Wooly