mothers and fathers (non-cycling)

[Climb01742]

yesterday my mom was in a head-on car crash. she had serious head trauma. after 3 hours of surgery for cerebral bleeding and two more hours of ICU efforts to keep her heart going, she passed away. she was 85.

my mom and i hadn't seen each other for a few years. long story. but we talked pretty regularly. i had called her last sunday, thank god. we were planning a trip this summer.

i'd like to share, if i may, two things that have been pretty relentlessly banging around my head the last 10 hours.

if you're planning on seeing your mom or dad, don't plan. go.

and my mom and i had talked alot about whether living on her own was such a good idea anymore. she was a stubborn, feisty woman. she loved her garden. she loved her independence. i could never figure out, for sure, what the right answer was. the risks of her independence versus the benefits of her independence. perhaps there is no real, definitive answer. i know i'm going to be haunted by it. maybe think long and hard about this if your mom or dad is in that situation. i think i made the right choice by not pushing her harder on. her best friend down in atlanta said that yesterday morning, before getting in her car to do her daily errands, she had been in her garden. i'm guessing she was happy.

[va rider]

Climb -

I am so sorry to hear about the passing away of your mother. Please accept my sympathies during what must be a difficult time.

My mother is also in her 80s and I haven't brought the kids to see her for a few months. She lives about 2 1/2 hours north of Virginia and I am planning on taking off when our next baby arrives in a few weeks. I will make a point of visiting during my vacation.

You and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers.

[David Kirk]

James,

My thoughts are with you. I lost my father about 30 years ago and it still hurts everyday.

Your advice is well taken. Appreciate your parents while you have them.

If there is anything I or we can do let us know.

Dave

[bulliedawg]

Climb:

Please know that you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. And your advice could not be better.

[JohnS]

Climb, let me offer my condolences. I also have a mother around that age (84) who lives alone. She only lives 10 minutes away so i try to visit her at least weekly. You did the right thing by not pressuring her to give up her independence.

[dirtdigger88]

Climb,

My condolences to you and your family. I nearly lost my mother last year to cancer, I was given a second chance to say and do the things I knew I should. I have taken advantage of the to the fullest. You are going to be facing hard times ahead, but like you said. . .your mother was at her home, in her garden and YES I am sure she was happy.

Jason

[davids]

Climb,,

I'm so, so sorry for your loss. You've got my condolences, and my deepest sympathies.

I lost my 75 year-old father about a year and a half ago. After generally feeling poorly for a number of months, he collapsed one afternoon and, after being taken to the emergency room, was diagnosed with a brian tumor. He had surgery the following Tuesday, but never recovered.

Anticipating that my parents would need me during his recovery process, I nearly didn't go to Cleveland to see him before surgery. Now, I am grateful that my mom browbeat me into going. It was my last opportunity to see my father. I know it mean a lot for him to have his kids at his side as he faced the operation. Even more importantly, it was extraordinarily important for me to have had the one last set of conversations, and to tell him I loved him.

I guess I'm sharing this to tell you that you shouldn't beat yourself up over not having seen her. You were clearly in touch, and were planning to be together (to vacation together - God bless you!) Her death was a complete surprise, a tragic accident. You can never anticipate an ending that sudden. You had no opportunity for that one last goodbye, and that's not your fault. I was "lucky" enough to have the opportunity, and nearly missed it by second-guessing the gravity of the situation.

You clearly love your mother, and she clearly knew it. Take comfort in that.

[Keith A]

Climb,

I too want to offer my condolences to you and your family. There is nothing that anyone can say that ease the pain of your loss. However, be thankful that you and your mother did communicate regularly, even if it had been a while since you last saw her. Also, it sounds as though she has enjoyed pretty good health if she was still able to work in her garden at 85 -- that is an accomplishment in and of itself.

My thoughts and prayers will be with you and yours.
-Keith

[TimD]

James, my condolences on the passing of your mother.

Having reached the age of 85 she lived a long life, having seen many wondrous and terrible things. While unpleasant and unexpected her passing was swift and, one prays, without suffering.

I lost my mother and father at an early age, and many close relatives since, many of them before what could be called "their time". When it is your day it is your day, a thought which often enters my mind as I mount my bike, or say goodbye to my wife and children in the morning.

Our thoughts are with you.

Tim

[Bruce H.]

Climb,
Please know that my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family during this time of great loss. Especially when it was totally unexpected.
I certainly agree that you should act instead of think about showing love to all your close relationships.

Sincerely,
Bruce H.

[jeffg]

you are in our thoughts and you and your family our deepest condolences. What a great idea to plan a vacation together. I can tell you from personal experience it can be a wonderful thing to vacation with your parents as the years go by.

Having lost my father when I was 16, and almost losing my mother a few years ago to cancer, I realize how precious the time we have is. On the independence issue: This is a very tough question that many families wrestle with. My grandfather is 95, stubborn, and fiercely independent. Two of my aunts want him to move to a home, but he refuses and also does not want help. We just try to get to him as often as we can and check up with lots of calls. I truly believe you did the right thing. My grandfather always says that assisted living would kill him and that if he goes at home, even falling down the stairs, he is at peace with that. He came out and played golf with me last year and still shoots pretty well. Others in the family try to make decisions for him; however, that does not respect him or his wishes. We worry about him a great deal, but that is our problem. Trying to care and care for someone involves letting go of control to the extent the person is competent and wants to live their life as they see fit.

I hope you have an opportunity to take some time off and spend time with your family now. It's important to focus on each other after losing a loved one. Again, the thoughts of our family are with you in this difficult time.

best,

Jeff

[Redturbo]

My condolences and a very timely post in my case.

thanks turbo

[Bruce K]

Climb;

So Sorry to hear about your loss.

My father is 82 and lives near West Palm Beach, Florida. He lives alone and his only health issue is some weakness in his legs from an old back surgery. His driving is OK but not great.

I try to call at least every other day to check up on him. He tells me not to worry - yeah right.

We are dealing with similar issues and it is very difficult (as you know) to decide about where he should continue live, whether he should continue to drive, etc.

I know it must have been hard, but I think that allowing our parents to make their own decisions and be as independent as possible until they are no longer safe was/is the right way to go.

We'll be thinking of you and yours in our house.

BK

[dave thompson]

James: With both my Mom and Dad gone, I can feel some of what you are going through. Be happy that you had frequent contact with her and that she had lived her life.

My deepest condolences. I'll say a prayer for her

Dave

[dbrk]

Climb,
My heartfelt condolences and sympathies to you and yours. Such loss confounds the mind's desire to have done something more, something else. But surely it was your respect, your true love, your decency to the core that led to your actions and decisions regarding how your Mom continued to live her life in her sunset years. My own father passed some three years back now and not a day passes when I don't miss him, recall his voice, try to listen to him in my own heart. The loss is no less profound in a sudden end such as this than in the long, long goodbye of Alzheimer's we endured.

There is a beautiful passage in the Bhagavadgita that reminds us to look for the immortal in our own experience and memories, not as a metaphysical reality but as an affirmation of presence that does not leave us when those we love are no longer physically present. Your Mom will be remembered in just such a way by those who loved her and so carry on as that presence of the divine within each of us. Blessing to you and yours, my friend.
The Sanskrit works out like this,
"Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you.
Nor will there be any future in which we shall cease to be.
Love, eternity, sustaining presence: the soul cannot die even when the body
no longer endures."

Take care and grieve to heal and experience everything you seek.

dbrk

[weisan]

Climb, thank you for sharing your thoughts with this group. It shows how much you value our friendship and from the response, you know how much we love having you in our midst.

Please take some time on your own to mourn over the loss of your mother. There are choices in life we have to make. We don't ever want to look back but we do want to learn and grow from experience. I started a family here in the US seven years ago. Both our parents are faraway in Singapore. The distance relationship is not ideal but we try to make the best out of the situation. Every two years or so, we will make it a point to go back and visit, maintain family ties and let the grandparents dote over the kids. Definitely not ideal, but both sides have learned to accept it. Please don't forget to celebrate the accomplishments of your mom.

I will be praying for you.

weisan

[Ray]

Climb,

Very sorry to hear - my thoughts are with you. Nothing helps in the short run - grieving a loved one is just hard. There are no shortcuts. In time, I think you'll be grateful that she lived to 85 in what sounds like good health and good spirits and died relatively quickly. I lost my mom almost 5 years ago at age 80, but over the last 7-8 years of her life she went from being vibrant and alive to being a shell of herself with just occasional moments of spark and personality. It was hard on everyone, most of all her. Your mom working happily in her garden shortly before she died is something you'll probably look back on as a gift someday. None of this makes it any easier now, but hopefully it will in time.

-Ray

[Chris]

Climb,
As the others have, I offer my condolences. You did the right thing with your mother. Independence is a big part of living a full enjoyable life. Don't ever beat yourself up over that. Cherish the relationship you had with her and that you can still have on a different level.
Chris

[Len J]

My condolences to you and your famly. From experience, I know how this feels.

My Mom died suddenly when I was 18 after an extended time where her and I were estranged. 30 years later, I am still haunted by regrets.

Lesson for me is to look at all my important relationships and ask myself: "What do I have to do today to ensure that 6 months after this person was dead, I would have no regrets?"

Sounds like you have normal human questions, I hope they are not regrets.

My thoughts are with you.

Len

[quattro]

Climb-

My condolences to you and your family on the loss of your mom. Having lost me Dad five years ago to cancer there are always unanswered questions to ponder. I try to focus on all the wonderful times we had and how he enjoyed life and instilled so many positivie lessons on living life. I try to speak to my 82 year old mother every day, and visit her a few times a month. Your advice can't be overstated, life is very short, spend time with your parents when ever possible. My thoughts are with you. Quattro

[Spinner]

Climb,

You are in my thoughts as you mourn the passing of your mother. Your loss truly is a passing because you have just started a new phase in your relationship with her.

Your sorrow will soon be replaced by the smiles of quiet reflection. You will hear her words in yours and you will recognize her manner in your actions.

The joy is that you will become even closer to your mother with each passing memory. That is the spirit of life and that is what life is all about; to remember and to be remembered.

Kindest regards,

[BumbleBeeDave]

I'd like to offer my voice to the chorus of condolences, though I feel that anything I have to say in addition is pitifully inadequate given the situation. I never know what exactly to say at times like this, though I always feel that something needs to be said. I'm just hoping that she did not suffer too much and that you will be able to have your family around you at a time like this, when family can be the most important thing in the world.

My own parents live far away in Kansas City. Both are elderly (77 and 78) and in poor health and are pretty much conifned to the house. They have a home health aid who comes in 3 days a week who is (thankfully) responsible and a joy to be with. The longer they are there the more I know that someday--probably soon--the phone call is going to come. It's just impossible with job and taking care of my own daughter to get out there as often as I should be and want to be. I think you did the right thing in getting as close as possible, but not domineeringly close.

Hopefully we can share a toast to her memory and you can tell us more about her at owner's weekend.

BBDave

[djg]

I am very sorry for your loss--my condolences to you and your family. I cannot guess at your situation, but I know that it is a terrible and hard thing to lose a parent and my thoughts are with you.

[Johny]

Climb,

My prayers are with you and your family...

[Sandy]

[Sandy]

Climb,

You stated that your mom was a feisty and stubborn woman and very independent, if I remember correctly. One must balance the possible problems that may occur with an elderly individual living by herself or himself, versus the remarkable loss an individual would suffer if their independence was usurped from them. Someone who has been a truly independent person for years places a tremendous value on that independence, a truly defining aspect of the character and core of that person. By taking that independence away, the individual often loses their perception of self worth and importance. Their independence is a substantial part of who they are, and the losss of that can truly diminish greatly how they view themselves and how they feel they can live their life. The loss ,to them, can be a sudden dramatic, and emotional negative change that diminishes their feeling of wholeness and worth.

Your mom lived to 85 and her death was totally unrelated to her independence. She appeared able to do for herself, from what you have said. When my brother-in-law was dying from cancer, and living with my wife and myself, it was very difficult for the family members to increase his pain medication to a point at which he would probably be more comfortable, but would be almost non-responsive to the family. The most important idea was that the quality of his life was paramount, and if it meant less pain and simultaneously less communiction with the family, then so be it. It was very very difficult for the family to "let go". What was best for him was most difficult for the family.

In the case of your mom, you and your family undoubtedly worried more about her when you allowed her the independence that she obviously wanted and insisted upon. So it was difficult for you not knowing, all the time, how she was doing. But her quality of life was most important, and that meant allowing her the independence that she most fiercely wanted. It was probably harder on you and other family members, but much better for her.

My mother died at 80 from cancer and was a remarkable lady in so many ways. She too was remarkably independent and lived by herself for many years after her loving husband, my dad, passed away. My mother-in-law is now 78 and lives with my wife, Gloria, and myself. She has some real health issues and is not nearly as independent as my mother was. She happily lives with us, and will undoubtedly do so for the remainder of her life. My ex father-in-law is now 95, and is remarkably independent. To take away independence from those that cling to it, like your mom, would be a real dissservice. It would diminish, in THEIR eyes, their value and significance in life. Your family let your mom keep her independence, adding to, not taking away her worth as a person. You did the right thing, for sure, at least in my humble opinion.

Hopefully, I will reach the age of 85, know what a garden is, and be physically and mentally competent to tend to one.

Sincerely sorry for you sudden and tragic loss. A loss of a loved one comes too fast, no matter the manner in which it occurs,

Sincerely,


Sandy

[sharky]

Climb,
My deepest sympathies to you and your family. Sounds like she was doing what she enjoyed most and was fortunate to be so active at that age. My mother is 82 and can hardly walk. I just might make the trip to see her a little sooner. Take care

Sharky

[shaq-d]

Climb,

My condolences. I can only say I know what it's like, and, as others have expressed, it's not a suffering that really goes away. It's good that you got along well with her, by the looks of it.

Take care,
Ian

[OldDog]

Climb,

I too would like to offer my deepest sympathies. You advice is something we all need to follow with all loved ones in our lives. You and your family are in our prayers. God bless.

May I relay a recent similar sad occurrence? My good friend Brian married a woman back in the mid nineties and became a stepfather to two great teen-age boys. When David turned 18 he chose a career in the Marines, re-enlisting at age 22. Dave was stationed the last two years or so in the Mediterranean on an aircraft carrier servicing F-18’s. He returned to home base in SC in April. He was to leave to come home for his first visit in two years on May 2, staying through Mothers Day. David was killed in an auto accident May 1, he was 23. May 1 was his mothers wedding anniversary to Brian. Due to the timing of the military releasing his body, his viewing was on Mothers Day. David was laid to rest on May 10 with full Marine honors.

I relay this to emphasize Climbs point: let your loved ones know how dear to you they are. You or they may called at any time and it could be a long, long time before you see them again.

[Andreu]

she was a stubborn, feisty woman. she loved her garden. she loved her independence. i could never figure out, for sure, what the right answer was. the risks of her independence versus the benefits of her independence. perhaps there is no real, definitive answer. i know i'm going to be haunted by it. maybe think long and hard about this if your mom or dad is in that situation. i think i made the right choice by not pushing her harder on. her best friend down in atlanta said that yesterday morning, before getting in her car to do her daily errands, she had been in her garden. i'm guessing she was happy.

This put me in mind of a poem by Dylan Thomas.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[Climb01742]

everyone -- i'd like to genuinely and deeply thank you for your thoughts and words. your kindness is remarkable. this has been a lonely day. you each have made it less so. thank you. james/climb.

[Kevin]

Climb,

My thoughts are with you and your family.

Kevin

[Smiley]

sorry to hear of your loss, our condolences go out to you and your family. Smiley

[Matt Barkley]

James,
Very sorry to hear about your mother's passing. It is nice to hear she spent time in her garden. You give is all something to think about and act on. I know I will. Thanks for your ever-open heart on this forum, even with personal loss. We are all helped by it. My thoughs are with you and your family (even... and especially when riding my new Fina) - Matt

Kiss of the sun for pardon
Song of the birds for mirth
One is closer to God's heart in a Garden
Than anywhere else on earth.

[M_A_Martin]

James/Climb,

I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your mom.
No story I could tell could console you now. But know that later, when the searing pain is numbed, you'll pass a well tended garden, think of what your mom would do differently, and smile at the memories that come flooding back, wipe away a tear, and continue on.
I know I do.

Condolences.
Strength.
Mary Ann

[tch]

Climb,
Go for a walk, go for a long, slow ride by yourself. Think of your mother and know that she would want you to be happy. Decide to remember her at her best and happiest. Wait.
Best wishes.

[vaxn8r]

What more to say? I'm sorry for your loss. Take some time to yourself and write some thoughts down about what you remember about your mom. Someday you or your kids may be really glad you did it.

[Russ]

Hello Climb,

I don’t know you personally, but I hope I'll meet you at the TdFL. The reason I am saying this is because I hope you don’t mind receiving condolences from an unknown forum member…. My deepest thoughts are for you and your mother.

In your post, you mentioned that “…before getting in her car to do her daily errands, she had been in her garden. I’m guessing she was happy.” I don’t think you need to guess it, your mom seemed to be happy, and I think you made the right decision to let her be when she was alive.

You see, I am talking from my own experience…. My beloved grandfather passed away at the age of 85, a couple of years ago. He was like a father to me. But I know he did not die happy. He was a wealthy man and that made my uncles and aunts fight over his money, etc. Everyone was always trying to tell him what to do, when HE was the one that helped raise all of us! He even became ill, but my relatives disregarded his illness and they really made his life miserable for a while… The fighting and arguing intensified the last year he was alive and I am sure this helped accelerate his death. Needless to say, this was very painful for me to see.

To this day, my extended family continues to fight over things that have no real human value, and I am almost embarrassed to say that what was once a big, united family has fallen apart like an empire gone nowhere; there is no communication among many of us...

Aside from my family, I have always been in peace with my grandfather… I never contradicted his points of views or teaching when he was alive. I always kept in touch with him when he was alive, and I told him that my biggest regret in life was to be so far away from him.... He told me, not to worry as he was always with me spiritually. I never forget those words... So, to this day, when I am riding alone, I still think about him often and give him his minute of silence…. I know he will never be far from me.

Be in peace with yourself, and your mother will be in peace with you.

[rwl]

Climb,

My condolences, and my prayers, are for you, your mother,and your family.

You honored your mother by supporting her, in living the life she wanted, as she chose to live it. Perhaps a parent is happiest when seeing her child has grown to be a fine, loving and respecting adult, which certainly she has.

Rick

[Tom Byrnes]

Climb/James,

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. My thoughts and sympathies are with you and your family at this difficult time.

Tom