Ultegra hubs - rebuild or replace?

[lucieli]

My commuter bike has some older Ultegra hubs (FH-6500/HB-6500), which I'm starting to feel some vibration from during my rides. I serviced the hubs recently and I noticed some grooves/pitting on the cones. I was able to polish out the grooves by spinning the cones in a dremel type tool in a vice and using strips of high grit sand paper but I did not replace the bearings. Since I'm still noticing a slight vibration at times during my rides, I'm wondering if I should replace bearings, cones and seals or just replace the hubs? Is there someplace that sells rebuild kits that would include all of the necessary parts? I plan on checking with my LBS but figured I'd ask the question here first. Appreciate your thoughts.

Mike

[Veloo]

Interesting. I'm in the same boat.
6500 hub cones are pitted as well as the bearings but the races in the hub are fine. At least for the front hub. Haven't opened up the back yet.
Replacement cones seem to be rare so I've been thinking the hubs are not worth the hassle.

[benb]

I just had a set of Tiagra 10-speed hubs rebuilt last winter.. they're my beater wheels and I rode them through tons and tons of winter salt and rain for 7 years.

Mine had rust coming out everywhere and when the LBS opened them up they said all the actual hub parts were fine and they just replaced the bearings and other replaceable bits.

It was cheap at my LBS... like $50 for parts and labor on a set of wheels that has been utterly bulletproof under lots of abuse.

Mine weren't really vibrating though.. just tons of obvious drag.

Probably worth it unless the wheels have other issues.

[Velocipede]

My commuter bike has some older Ultegra hubs (FH-6500/HB-6500), which I'm starting to feel some vibration from during my rides. I serviced the hubs recently and I noticed some grooves/pitting on the cones. I was able to polish out the grooves by spinning the cones in a dremel type tool in a vice and using strips of high grit sand paper but I did not replace the bearings. Since I'm still noticing a slight vibration at times during my rides, I'm wondering if I should replace bearings, cones and seals or just replace the hubs? Is there someplace that sells rebuild kits that would include all of the necessary parts? I plan on checking with my LBS but figured I'd ask the question here first. Appreciate your thoughts.

Mike

You always replace the bearings when overhauling a loose bearing hub or anything loose bearing. Especially since it's a commuter bike. It's the easiest way to ensure it's not something simple. And they are cheap.

[muz]

You always replace the bearings when overhauling a loose bearing hub or anything loose bearing. Especially since it's a commuter bike. It's the easiest way to ensure it's not something simple. And they are cheap.

Yes. I apply the simple "float test": if the bearing balls float on water, keep them. Otherwise replace :banana:

Having said that, your hub is toast. Unless you do a full overhaul at the slightest hint of roughness, there will be too much pitting, and it will only get worse. The reason your cone was pitted is that the grease was contaminated, grinding off metal bits from bearing balls and the races. Once the hardened surface of the race gets pitted, the wear rapidly accelerates.

[chrismoustache]

If there's only pitting on the cones, I'd probably try picking up a new axle assembly, which should have the cones and bits. Pitting on the receiving side of the hub shell might be a different story though...

I think Wheels Mfg. usually has these.

[bikinchris]

My commuter bike has some older Ultegra hubs (FH-6500/HB-6500), which I'm starting to feel some vibration from during my rides. I serviced the hubs recently and I noticed some grooves/pitting on the cones. I was able to polish out the grooves by spinning the cones in a dremel type tool in a vice and using strips of high grit sand paper but I did not replace the bearings. Since I'm still noticing a slight vibration at times during my rides, I'm wondering if I should replace bearings, cones and seals or just replace the hubs? Is there someplace that sells rebuild kits that would include all of the necessary parts? I plan on checking with my LBS but figured I'd ask the question here first. Appreciate your thoughts.

Mike

Those cones are not expensive. I always find it odd that people try to grind off the bad spots. The cups are much harder than the cones so they are probably not damaged.
With minimum maintenance, those hubs can easily last for a lifetime. It's a shame to let them get damaged. Overhaul them with new ball bearings and fresh grease yearly. Maybe buy a spare freehub body for the decades ahead.

[lucieli]

Appreciate all the responses. The hub shells appear to be in great condition, so my thinking was to try and salvage the hubs. My effort to polish the existing cones (and not replace the bearings) was based solely on working with what was immediately available to me and trying to put the bike back in service. I’ve serviced hubs many times over the years and was unaware that it’s common to replace the bearings when doing so. I will plan on doing this in the future. As it relates to my current situation, I’ll look to see if I can source replacement axles (with bits and pieces) and rebuild the hubs. If that’s not possible, I’ll explore replacing the hubs and/or wheels. Cheers!

[bfd]

Appreciate all the responses. The hub shells appear to be in great condition, so my thinking was to try and salvage the hubs. My effort to polish the existing cones (and not replace the bearings) was based solely on working with what was immediately available to me and trying to put the bike back in service. I’ve serviced hubs many times over the years and was unaware that it’s common to replace the bearings when doing so. I will plan on doing this in the future. As it relates to my current situation, I’ll look to see if I can source replacement axles (with bits and pieces) and rebuild the hubs. If that’s not possible, I’ll explore replacing the hubs and/or wheels. Cheers!

I don’t understand, why are you looking to replace the axles?! Isn’t this a cassette rear hub? If so, it is very rare that the axle would break. And front axle almost never break!

Definitely replace the balk bearings! Grade 25 bearings are like $0.05 or even $0.10 each, cheap! New bearings and new grease and your good to go! Good Luck!

[oldpotatoe]

My commuter bike has some older Ultegra hubs (FH-6500/HB-6500), which I'm starting to feel some vibration from during my rides. I serviced the hubs recently and I noticed some grooves/pitting on the cones. I was able to polish out the grooves by spinning the cones in a dremel type tool in a vice and using strips of high grit sand paper but I did not replace the bearings. Since I'm still noticing a slight vibration at times during my rides, I'm wondering if I should replace bearings, cones and seals or just replace the hubs? Is there someplace that sells rebuild kits that would include all of the necessary parts? I plan on checking with my LBS but figured I'd ask the question here first. Appreciate your thoughts.

Mike

Get new bearing balls and cones. Not hard to find. I’ll bet shimano, USA has them. NO need to replace the axles. Wheels Manufacturing has compatible cones. The bearing balls are a standard size also. 1/4 inch and 3/16, pretty sure.
AND yes, every hub overhaul generally gets new bearing balls...check cones..replace if necessary.

[GregL]

Get new bearing balls and cones. Not hard to find. I’ll bet shimano, USA has them. NO need to replace the axles. Wheels Manufacturing has compatible cones. The bearing balls are a standard size also. 1/4 inch and 3/16, pretty sure.
AND yes, every hub overhaul generally gets new bearing balls...check cones..replace if necessary.
Here's the parts lists for both the front and rear hubs:

https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/ev/HB-6500/EV-HB-6500-1678.pdf
https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/ev/HB-6500-A/EV-HB-6500-A-2320.pdf
https://si.shimano.com/api/publish/storage/pdf/en/ev/FH-6500/EV-FH-6500-1679.pdf

Not sure what the difference is between an HB-6500 and HB-6500-A.

Greg

[Veloo]

Yeah, these (front) cones have a dust cover pressed in and a rubber seal.

[Veloo]

Called Shimano Canada.
The -A drawing uses the new part numbering convention with the Y prefix so we should use that vs the non -A drawing.

Also, the cups are discontinued. He also said if you can't find individual cups then a complete hub axle (4) may be something to look up instead.

[dddd]

Short of pressure-washing or immersion in water, and given the really sophisticated rubber and labyrinth-sealed bearings, I would cite over-tight bearing adjustment as the only likely cause of the cone pitting.

The bearing adjustment from the factory is snug, with no free-play, perhaps as an "inspection" adjustment and/or to facilitate wheel truing on certain older wheel-truing stands that don't use the quick-release lever's clamping force (which measurably compresses the axle's length).

So, fitted to the bike as normal, using the high-leverage Shimano internal-cam QR levers, the bearings were binding in a severely over-tight condition from day one. Only the extremely high quality of Shimano's bearing surfaces prevents their failing very early once put into service.

Too late for the original cones and balls, but the new parts should be set up with enough play in the bearings that it only becomes free of play at the rim as the final level of QR tension is approached.

I recently used the squared edge of a "compressed Scotchbrite" unitized deburring wheel to somewhat re-finish the working surface of a rotating bearing cone, which with new Gr25 balls made a big improvement in the Deore front hub's turning smoothness. It won't last near as long as new parts, but until I find a discarded bent wheel with the needed cone it will be fine.

[lucieli]

Get new bearing balls and cones. Not hard to find. I’ll bet shimano, USA has them. NO need to replace the axles. Wheels Manufacturing has compatible cones. The bearing balls are a standard size also. 1/4 inch and 3/16, pretty sure.
AND yes, every hub overhaul generally gets new bearing balls...check cones..replace if necessary.

New bearings, cones and seals was my original thought. Loose bearings and seals I can source. It's the cones that I'm having trouble finding. I could not find them on Shimano USA and the Wheels Manufacturing compatible cone does not have the dust cap and is not available anyway. The pitting on the cones looked exactly like the photos Veloo shared but I was able to polish them clean with minimal effort. I will try replacing the bearings and see if there is any improvement.

Appreciate all the input!

[muz]

In my experience, once the cone looks like that, the hub is toast. There was enough grit to pit the cup, and once the hardened cup surface is pitted, it will all go downhill even if you replace the cone and the balls. To check this, inspect the race with a magnifying glass, and also run a sharp pencil along the race, and feel for any roughness.

This is an unfortunate result of Shimano's design, which embeds the cup in the hub. Campy cups can be replaced, especially with the newer hubs.

[dddd]

In my experience, once the cone looks like that, the hub is toast. There was enough grit to pit the cup, and once the hardened cup surface is pitted, it will all go downhill even if you replace the cone and the balls. To check this, inspect the race with a magnifying glass, and also run a sharp pencil along the race, and feel for any roughness.

This is an unfortunate result of Shimano's design, which embeds the cup in the hub. Campy cups can be replaced, especially with the newer hubs.

I've replaced a lot of cones where the hub was quite smooth afterward.

It's the much larger area of contact with the balls that allows the cup surfaces to be relatively immune to damage, even after the cone and balls show surface failures.

Rust on the other hand, is more egalitarian, it'll tear up the cups as fast as the balls and cones.

[Velocipede]

New bearings, cones and seals was my original thought. Loose bearings and seals I can source. It's the cones that I'm having trouble finding. I could not find them on Shimano USA and the Wheels Manufacturing compatible cone does not have the dust cap and is not available anyway. The pitting on the cones looked exactly like the photos Veloo shared but I was able to polish them clean with minimal effort. I will try replacing the bearings and see if there is any improvement.

Appreciate all the input!

OP, I might have the Wheels versions of these in my rebuild kit. I can check tomorrow when I go in if you'd like. You just pull the silver dust cover off the old and press them on the new cones. Wheels made better replacement versions than the original Ultegra ones. Really beautifully machined. I just put some on a retro resto build I'm working on. My rebuild kits have the seals as well.

[lucieli]

OP, I might have the Wheels versions of these in my rebuild kit. I can check tomorrow when I go in if you'd like. You just pull the silver dust cover off the old and press them on the new cones. Wheels made better replacement versions than the original Ultegra ones. Really beautifully machined. I just put some on a retro resto build I'm working on. My rebuild kits have the seals as well.

Definitely interested, thank you!

[Velocipede]

Definitely interested, thank you!

PM incoming. I have 8 front hub cones and 3 drive / 3 non-drive side cones for the 6500 series hubs. These are the Wheels Manufacturing ones. So they have the machined bearing races vs the stock ones should be black oxide ones.

[dddd]

PM incoming. I have 8 front hub cones and 3 drive / 3 non-drive side cones for the 6500 series hubs. These are the Wheels Manufacturing ones. So they have the machined bearing races vs the stock ones should be black oxide ones.

Ultegra hubs have always had machined/ground cone races afaik.
I'm surprised anyone would assume that any sort of aftermarket cones would be better, I would not have assumed that.

[Velocipede]

Ultegra hubs have always had machined/ground cone races afaik.
I'm surprised anyone would assume that any sort of aftermarket cones would be better, I would not have assumed that.

Dura Ace had the machined cones. Ultegra didn't come with them on the 6400 and 6500. The Wheels cones are universally known as the same as Dura Ace or superior. They are incredibly well made. Same with the axles they offer.

[bfd]

Dura Ace had the machined cones. Ultegra didn't come with them on the 6400 and 6500. The Wheels cones are universally known as the same as Dura Ace or superior. They are incredibly well made. Same with the axles they offer.

Just be glad you don’t have the DA 7700 front hub! The cones are difficult to find and expensive (+$25):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Dura-Ace-7700-front-hub-axle-cones-Vintage-Road-Bicycle-LAST-SET-NOS-/274410178660

Good Luck!

[Velocipede]

Just be glad you don’t have the DA 7700 front hub! The cones are difficult to find and expensive (+$25):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Dura-Ace-7700-front-hub-axle-cones-Vintage-Road-Bicycle-LAST-SET-NOS-/274410178660

Good Luck!

I have those hubs and also have new cones for them.