Suggest new brakes for my gravel conversion

[makoti]

I've been riding my Hollands with 32mm tires on gravel and it's been working better than I hoped, except for a few niggles.
The main one is braking. It's a rim brake bike, and at the moment I have Campy Chorus circa 1995 brakes paired to the new 12sp levers. Mostly I kept these calipers for tire clearance. When John built it, he left me lots of space on the frame, but newer calipers seemed to limit tire size.
Well, they just aren't going to cut it. I'd rather not buy a new bike just to get disc brakes, so what do you all suggest to replace these? The current are, of course, standard reach but maxed out. New pads I'm sure would help, but I'm looking for a lot more stopping power.
Rather not spend $700 on calipers, but... Frame will not take direct mount, so that is out.

[thirdgenbird]

Chorus 12 is supposed to have great clearance and there is a new set listed here.

Edit:
Not sure if they will got to a 32 but I heard they were comparable to 8spd era calipers.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258217

[makoti]

Chorus 12 is supposed to have great clearance and there is a new set listed here.

Edit:
Not sure if they will got to a 32 but I heard they were comparable to 8spd era calipers.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258217

I saw those. Would match the group, too

[Gummee]

All ya really need is a mullet.

IOW a disc fork/wheel for the front and longer reach calipers in the back

M

[Ken Robb]

How much braking force can you use before wheels lockup on gravel?

[Mark McM]

The 12 speed Chorus calipers are not going to give you more stopping force than what you have now. Dual pivot brakes haven't changed geometry in about 25 years, so they all have about the same leverage ratio (a ratio of about 1.6:1 for caliper clamping force:cable force).

To improve braking force, you'll need to improve the pad/rim friction, and/or reduce force losses in the system. Better pads will improve pad/rim friction. Using low friction cables will reduce system force losses. Also, rebuilding the calipers with a good clean & lube can also reduce force losses.


(Just to be picky, the term "braking power" has a different meaning than the term "braking force". Braking force is a measure of friction force causing a deceleration. Braking power refers to the rate of heat generation/dissipation. Stopping quickly requires high brake force. Long continuous hard braking (as when descending) requires being able to dissipate a high brake power.

[mhespenheide]

Try some of the Kool-Stops eBike formula pads before you try anything more complicated.

[thirdgenbird]

Yeah, I should have mentioned the stopping power increase would likely only be a result of newer pads and maybe cleaner/fresher pivots.

As mentioned above, I am not sure how much more power you would really need on gravel. Pretty easy to lock them up.

[robt57]

Start with Swiss Stop BXP pads.

[AngryScientist]

What kind of rims are you using? All rims are not created equal with regard to brake track machinieneing and how they feel when braking.

I agree that you stand to gain pretty much nada from swapping just calipers in the situation you describe.

[makoti]

What kind of rims are you using? All rims are not created equal with regard to brake track machinieneing and how they feel when braking.

I agree that you stand to gain pretty much nada from swapping just calipers in the situation you describe.

I've got the Pacenti SL233's on the bike right now.
I'll try a pad change first, but was hoping there was something that might give me more...something. Not worried about locking up. I'm not coming close to that right now.

[p nut]

If new pads don’t work, perhaps Paul Racer Mediums are the ticket.

https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/brakes/center-pull-brakes/racer-medium/

[charliedid]

Just put your foot down when you go around the corner.

[thirdgenbird]

I've got the Pacenti SL233's on the bike right now.
I'll try a pad change first, but was hoping there was something that might give me more...something. Not worried about locking up. I'm not coming close to that right now.

On gravel?

[makoti]

On gravel?

Yes, on gravel. Even coming down pretty steep stuff, I haven't felt close to locking up

[Mark McM]

If new pads don’t work, perhaps Paul Racer Mediums are the ticket.

https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/brakes/center-pull-brakes/racer-medium/

Probably not. Those brakes (like most centerpull brakes) have lower leverage than dual pivot brakes.

[thirdgenbird]

Yes, on gravel. Even coming down pretty steep stuff, I haven't felt close to locking up

When you pull the levers firmly, does it feel solid like there is a hard stop or does it feel mushy?

Have you checked brake pad toe?

[Fixed]

Ask your bike mechanic

[AngryScientist]

Long Gravel descents need hydraulic they are safer


disagree.


---


if you cant lock up the rear wheel on a loose surface, there is something wrong with the set-up. all of my rim brake bikes have more than enough power to lock up the rear wheel or send me over the bars in the front, no problem. something is amiss in the set-up IMO.

[thirdgenbird]

I am with angry. I am guessing way too much toe. Not enough pad contacting the rim and lever leverage is going into flexing the calipers. Total guess, but a place to start.

[p nut]

On flat gravel, calipers are just fine.

There are some steeper dirt/gravel passes around here and while calipers worked ok, I MUCH preferred the control with discs. Being able to get almost full braking power with one finger while the other 4 hangs in for dear life is something I couldn’t do on the calipers.

I will also say mini-v’s were just as good as discs. Paul Mini Motos are probably my favorite brakes I’ve used.

[Fixed]

Ride what ya got
Enjoy your life
Cheers
---

[jtbadge]

Wait, the OP is asking about short reach calipers and the thread goes off about discs and mini-Vs? If $700 brakes are too much, a new bike is definitely out of the question.

Start with the 12 speed Campy calipers to match your levers. They have tons of clearance and will almost definitely have more leverage than your 90s calipers.

[makoti]

I am with angry. I am guessing way too much toe. Not enough pad contacting the rim and lever leverage is going into flexing the calipers. Total guess, but a place to start.

Worth checking, for sure. Thanks. To answer the earlier question, mushy feeling.
Looking for replacement pads & it looks like Swiss stop doesn't make anything for brakes this old, so I'll have to get Campy pads, I guess.

[soupless]

You could also get new brake shoes which would hold the Swiss Stop pads.

[Mark McM]

Worth checking, for sure. Thanks. To answer the earlier question, mushy feeling.
Looking for replacement pads & it looks like Swiss stop doesn't make anything for brakes this old, so I'll have to get Campy pads, I guess.

Kool Stop makes some excellent Campagnolo compatible brake pads, with 5 different models for 5 vintages of Campagnolo brakes: C89 for 8spd & 9spd brakes, Campi 2000 for brakes after the year 2000, and Campy Super Record 2011 for the latest era brakes. They also make a Chorus version for the original Chorus brakes (late '80s) and version for Delta brakes.

http://www.koolstop.com/english/rim_pads.html

All models are available in black, salmon, and dual compound (black + salmon). For my money, the salmon's are the best.

[thirdgenbird]

Worth checking, for sure. Thanks. To answer the earlier question, mushy feeling.
Looking for replacement pads & it looks like Swiss stop doesn't make anything for brakes this old, so I'll have to get Campy pads, I guess.

Check toe. If that doesn’t fix it, you may want to make sure the housing is cut squarely and fully seated.

[makoti]

Start with the 12 speed Campy calipers to match your levers. They have tons of clearance and will almost definitely have more leverage than your 90s calipers.

I looked at this option, and unless I am reading it wrong, Campy claims room for up to 28s. Running 32s, so don't think this will work.

[jtbadge]

I looked at this option, and unless I am reading it wrong, Campy claims room for up to 28s. Running 32s, so don't think this will work.

It depends on where your brake studs are located in relation to the dropouts. Your old calipers probably weren't "supposed" to clear 32s either, but as you say your reach is maxed out.

Nice price on a set in the classifieds, can't hurt to try: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258217&highlight=chorus+brake%2A

[makoti]

You could also get new brake shoes which would hold the Swiss Stop pads.

THIS is an idea I hadn't considered. Can't see why that wouldn't work.

It depends on where your brake studs are located in relation to the dropouts. Your old calipers probably weren't "supposed" to clear 32s either, but as you say your reach is maxed out.

I'll talk to the shop guys who work on it. These old ones could handle 35s if the frame could.
Yeah, I saw those (the Chorus 12s) & am very tempted. If I knew they'd work, I'd do that in a minute.

[choke]

Looking for replacement pads & it looks like Swiss stop doesn't make anything for brakes this old, so I'll have to get Campy pads, I guess.Yokozuna also makes Campy pre-2000 pads. https://www.yokozunausa.com/shop/product/yokozuna-gen-x-road-brake-pad-inserts-1-wheel-2856?category=715&search=yoko