View Full Version : OT: Semi-Automatic Espresso Machine
reconstyle
09-12-2020, 11:53 PM
Realized I posted in the wrong forum, created another thread in the general discussion section.
After reading the other espresso machine thread, I'm not sure why I was surprised there were so many espresso snobs/nerds here.
I currently am using a Miele CM5 but I want to switch over to a semi-automatic to get a little more control over my drinks.
Budget is ~$1500.
Yes, I've watched like every single Seattle Coffee Gear video - Gail and I are pretty much best friends now.
I'm really liking this new dual boiler machine from Ascaso, but I can't find manu reviews about it:
https://ascaso-usa.com/collections/steel/products/ascaso-steel-duo-programmable-espresso-machine-wpid-conrtroller-dual-boiler-110v-black
NoMoreParagon
09-13-2020, 05:29 AM
After reading the other espresso machine thread, I'm not sure why I was surprised there were so many espresso snobs/nerds here.
I currently am using a Miele CM5 but I want to switch over to a semi-automatic to get a little more control over my drinks.
Budget is ~$1500.
Yes, I've watched like every single Seattle Coffee Gear video - Gail and I are pretty much best friends now.
I'm really liking this new dual boiler machine from Ascaso, but I can't find manu reviews about it:
https://ascaso-usa.com/collections/steel/products/ascaso-steel-duo-programmable-espresso-machine-wpid-conrtroller-dual-boiler-110v-black
I hear you... you saw Gail retiring as of yesterday?? Her videos were really a great learning experience for me. Anyway, back to the machine. For that price range I would strongly recommend you to go for an E61 group head kind of machine.
I have tried few (Rocket and Lelit) and I can’t recommend a particular one enough. The new Lelit Mara X. Apart from being aesthetically very pleasing, it’s the only machine which has a PID at the grouphead (as opposed to have the PID controller at the brew and steam boiler) and it will give you the absolute e best control for your extraction, that being an espresso o cappuccino. Lelit is a fantastic brand from Italy and here in US I think 1st-Line Equipment and Clive Coffee stock it.
Then you need the grinder, and for the price I think nothing beats the Eureka Mignon series.
Good luck!
WayneJ
09-13-2020, 06:14 AM
I have an Expobar Office Lever paired with a Vario Baratza grinder and they are fantastic. I pull better shots than most coffee shops.
R3awak3n
09-13-2020, 06:49 AM
I love Gail too, I think everyone does. Did not know she retired :(
So the $1500 is that for a machine and grinder? Not sure what grinder you have but I consider the grinder as important if not more important than the machine and like nomoreparagon, the eureka grinders are fantastic and also what I have (I have an eureka specialita and its worth every penny).
So if you don't have a nice grinder I would split the $1500 budget and get a nice grinder and a cheaper machine. Of course for $700-$800 you not gonna get a dual boiler machine. If you already have a nice grinder then I agree with everything nomoreparagon says. I would look at Rocket, Lelit, ECM or profitec
VTCaraco
09-13-2020, 06:56 AM
I'm only about an hour away from where they're located, but I have complete trust in Chris Coffee (https://www.chriscoffee.com/) as a seller and support after-the-sale.
They're depth of knowledge and expertise in maintaining and repairing machines is excellent. Clive Coffee and a few others are likely in the same class, but Chris Coffee is fairly local for me and I'm now committed.
They have a sale page that is updated often.
They also have one-offs on occasion, so contacting them can be worthwhile.
They moved into a bigger facility this spring and had a number of bench machines that they sold at great prices. The one I ended up buying was a very recent trade-in. A long-time customer opted to upgrade to a Slayer machine and sold his QuickMill dual-boiler for a great price.
Per advice/perspective, some of the folks on this forum are FAR more knowledgeable than I am, but I'm very impressed with my machine (https://www.chriscoffee.com/collections/double-boiler-espresso-machines/products/quick-mill-vetrano-2b). Build-quality is definitely there and the rotary pump (rather than a vibratory pump) make for a more quiet and more consistent shot.
My sense/experience is that the components overlap at various price points, but the build-quality, features, aesthetics, and principles vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. My experience is that shops tend to align with a manufacturer that they work with. They sell and then give feedback to the company and the company adapts new versions based on that feedback. So the relationships become quite strong.
With due respect to Gail, I started by watching the Seattle Coffee Gear videos, but felt a different confidence when I contacted these folks. YMMV, of course, but it's one to add to your list.
grawk
09-13-2020, 07:01 AM
https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/breville-infuser-bes840xl-espresso-machine-stainless-steel
plus
https://www.slowpoursupply.co/niche-zero
Should get you a nice cuppa.
My daughter has that Breville as her first grown up espresso machine (replacing a super auto), and I've got the niche (that I use with my decent espresso machine www.decentespresso.com)
I'd also recommend investing in a good scale aimed at making coffee and a good tamper, to help at repeatability of your shots.
reconstyle
09-13-2020, 10:04 AM
duplicate post
reconstyle
09-13-2020, 10:08 AM
I am getting gifted a Eureka Atom grinder, so I think I'm all set there.
ugh...and yes - I'm sad about Gail :(
AngryScientist
09-13-2020, 10:12 AM
threads merged and re-homed.
Spdntrxi
09-13-2020, 11:25 AM
Barista Touch maybe... plenty under budget.
Oracle Touch would be nice ..but can be found slightly over your budget
MikeD
09-13-2020, 12:07 PM
My son has a Breville Dual Boiler and I have a LaSpaziale Mini Vivaldi 2. I had a Gaggia Classic before. My son likes his Breville better than mine, but it's made in China and repair parts are not available for it (you have to send the whole unit back to Breville for repair).
pottshead
09-13-2020, 12:13 PM
I’ve had a Profitec Pro 300 dual boiler machine with PID, and a Eureka Mignon Specialita grinder, which I got from Clive Coffee, for a few years and have only good things to say about both.
flying
09-13-2020, 12:23 PM
I’ve had a Profitec Pro 300 dual boiler machine with PID, and a Eureka Mignon Specialita grinder, which I got from Clive Coffee, for a few years and have only good things to say about both.
So did I & I agree the Pro 300 Dual Boiler is a real sleeper that does not get noticed but should ;)
reconstyle
09-13-2020, 06:32 PM
Can someone educate me on what an e61 group head is and the benefits over a non e61 group?
I know I can google, but I'd like to hear your thoughts/opinions.
oldguy00
09-13-2020, 08:32 PM
Can someone educate me on what an e61 group head is and the benefits over a non e61 group?
I know I can google, but I'd like to hear your thoughts/opinions.
I've owned both.....A rancilio Silvia, and a Rocket Giotto. The Giotto with the E61 pulled beautiful tiger striped shots. The Sylvia almost never would. Can't tell you why..
For your budget, I'd go for a rocket apartemento
https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/rocket-espresso-appartamento-espresso-machine
I'm in the market again (sold my Giotto years ago due to a move). I'm looking at a Rocket Mozzafiato with rotary pump. Also looking at an Atom grinder. Nice quiet setup.
ORMojo
10-31-2020, 01:03 PM
So, looking for recommendations for a (semi-)automatic machine for a beginner . . . specifically, an 11-year-old beginner!
My daughter is into coffee. She has mastered drip, french press, cold brew, whipped coffee, and more. (Starting as early as when she was 4 or 5 she would come to inhale the scent every morning when I would grind the beans!) She has now asked if we can get an espresso machine. I've never had one, only pulled my own shot once on a friend's machine. I have an excellent local coffee shop 3 blocks from my home, a different excellent local shop 2 blocks from my office - never felt the need to set up at home. We do have an excellent grinder.
Thoughts on a balance between easy, not too expensive, and yet enough options/controls for her to play with/learn from?
Thanks!
jkbrwn
10-31-2020, 01:18 PM
One persons excellent grinder is another persons not so excellent grinder. What do you have? Obviously have no idea of your budget, but you can’t really go wrong with a Gaggia Classic for a good entry level semi auto machine. There’s no real help from the machine. It’s all down to the operator.
crankles
10-31-2020, 01:21 PM
I am getting gifted a Eureka Atom grinder, so I think I'm all set there.
Someone's GIFTING you an Atom?!?!?!. I need more friends like that.
ORMojo
10-31-2020, 02:08 PM
One persons excellent grinder is another persons not so excellent grinder. What do you have? Obviously have no idea of your budget...
True, so I retract "excellent" :) Just feel that our current Baratza Virtuoso+ grinder is good enough to start.
Budget is high enough to avoid the machine hampering my kid's experimentation and enjoyment, but low enough to not over-invest in what may be a lightly used or short-term appliance (although I expect that I'll learn with her, and likely keep it in use regardless). Put another way, the Gaggia Classic is within budget. So is this DeLonghi Magnifica S (https://www.costco.com/delonghi-magnifica-s-smart-fully-automatic-espresso%2c-cappuccino-and-coffee-machine.product.100694223.html), which Costco let me know is on sale for 5 days. But I'm wondering if a fully automatic machine would be helpful, or would it take some of the fun & learning out of it for my daughter?
echappist
10-31-2020, 02:32 PM
True, so I retract "excellent" :) Just feel that our current Baratza Virtuoso+ grinder is good enough to start.
Budget is high enough to avoid the machine hampering my kid's experimentation and enjoyment, but low enough to not over-invest in what may be a lightly used or short-term appliance (although I expect that I'll learn with her, and likely keep it in use regardless). Put another way, the Gaggia Classic is within budget. So is this DeLonghi Magnifica S (https://www.costco.com/delonghi-magnifica-s-smart-fully-automatic-espresso%2c-cappuccino-and-coffee-machine.product.100694223.html), which Costco let me know is on sale for 5 days. But I'm wondering if a fully automatic machine would be helpful, or would it take some of the fun & learning out of it for my daughter?
So, looking for recommendations for a (semi-)automatic machine for a beginner . . . specifically, an 11-year-old beginner!
My daughter is into coffee. She has mastered drip, french press, cold brew, whipped coffee, and more. (Starting as early as when she was 4 or 5 she would come to inhale the scent every morning when I would grind the beans!) She has now asked if we can get an espresso machine. I've never had one, only pulled my own shot once on a friend's machine. I have an excellent local coffee shop 3 blocks from my home, a different excellent local shop 2 blocks from my office - never felt the need to set up at home. We do have an excellent grinder.
Thoughts on a balance between easy, not too expensive, and yet enough options/controls for her to play with/learn from?
Thanks!
Open box Rancilio Silvia PID from Seattle Coffee Gear for the machine, perhaps an Eureka Mignon for the grinder.
Virtuoso+ is not going to cut it. I have one, but I don't like it. Not enough fine settings to dial in the shot, and the setting often seems to change within the span of a few days.
Using the same beans, 16.80 +/- 0.05 g of grounds at a particular setting may lead to 45 g of extracted fluids one day but only 30 g the next day. If one is at all OCD like me, the Virtuoso+ is going to lead to a lot of cursing
jkbrwn
10-31-2020, 03:13 PM
As above, the Virtuoso+ is, I’m afraid, not an espresso grinder at all. One of the recent slews of sub $200 espresso orientated hand grinders might work, but perhaps not given they’re normally aimed at adult sized hands, along with whatever semi auto you desire. And it’ll cost less than the Delonghi (only using that as a reference point for cost). Or the previous suggestion of a Eureka.
Do not buy that Delonghi. She’ll learn nothing and the coffee will suck. You literally press a button. She won’t learn how to work with milk either.
If she has a proper espresso grinder and a semi auto, she’ll have to learn about grind settings, weight of coffee in versus liquid out, getting an even extraction, shot time, preinfusion and then you have the milk aspect. There’s a lot to learn about and a semi auto/manual lever machine is the only way she’ll learn.
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