Citizens Against Cyclist

[ToonaBP]

This was just posted on my bike club FB page. This area is rural "horse country " in northern Virginia.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/323092532248015/?ref=share

[jamesdak]

This was just posted on my bike club FB page. This area is rural "horse country " in northern Virginia.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/323092532248015/?ref=share

As a VA native I am ashamed.

[notsew]

This was just posted on my bike club FB page. This area is rural "horse country " in northern Virginia.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/323092532248015/?ref=share

Yikes, glad I don't live there!

I'm continually blown away how dramatically getting behind the wheel of a car increases entitlement and reduces patience. I'd love to understand the psychology of it. I feel it in myself sometimes, the frustration with a slow driver, etc. If you don't respect bikes/bikers, its easy to see how we are the target of that frustration. It's gross.

[David Tollefson]

Auto-privilege...

[redir]

What a loser. Got nothing better to do then create facebook pages against cyclists?

[gavingould]

every time a group gets together to say there should be separate infrastructure for cyclists, ask them how it's going to be paid for.
then ask them how they think all the roads are paid for...

virtual guarantee they want no part of a discussion on taxation, how things are actually funded, or socialism.

they put on a show of it being "for cyclists' safety" but the true message is always "GTFO my way so i can drive as fast as i want while texting and drinking this 64oz Big Gulp"

[dbnm]

Start an opposing group

Cyclists against Motorists

[m_sasso]

So many nut cases, where do they keep coming from? I thought Facebook had a mandate to stop providing a platform for hate groups?

[72gmc]

Test road users on all legal road uses: driving a car, riding a bicycle, walking. Don't just memorize the rules, but get out there and use each of the modes as part of the test (make assistance available for disabilities).

A little understanding could overcome a lot of bigotry.

[gdw]

Yawn. Much ado about nothing. Life is too short to waste time worrying about some idiots rants on social media.

[Bici-Sonora]

^^^ This assessment of some American drivers' attitudes toward cyclists (and other people not in cars slowing them down) seems on the money to me. Anything that gets in the way of driving as fast as people want is seen as a problem and major irritation. To my mind, this is part of the reason that auto, cyclist, and pedestrian traffic deaths keep rising. Why can't we have a "zero traffic death" goal as a national priority?

every time a group gets together to say there should be separate infrastructure for cyclists, ask them how it's going to be paid for.
then ask them how they think all the roads are paid for...

virtual guarantee they want no part of a discussion on taxation, how things are actually funded, or socialism.

they put on a show of it being "for cyclists' safety" but the true message is always "GTFO my way so i can drive as fast as i want while texting and drinking this 64oz Big Gulp"

[Bentley]

These are the same people that think sidewalks are for riding a bike. Until that gets fixed we will continue to have this problem.

Also, police do not enforce the law, in FL a rider is entitled to a lane (unless there is a designated bike path), had more than one person try to run me over or force me off the road.

[Ozz]

Start an opposing group

Cyclists against Motorists
(thanks Wiki):
About 700-900 cycling deaths per year in US vs about 35,000 auto deaths per year....which vehicle poses the greatest danger?

Couldn't find in the quick search how many of those cycling deaths were caused by getting hit by a car.....

[smead]

Yikes, glad I don't live there!

I'm continually blown away how dramatically getting behind the wheel of a car increases entitlement and reduces patience. I'd love to understand the psychology of it. I feel it in myself sometimes, the frustration with a slow driver, etc. If you don't respect bikes/bikers, its easy to see how we are the target of that frustration. It's gross.

We have the same group of horsie people here in the rural nor CA foothills. They routinely write letters to the editor in local papers about how cyclists engender the safety of their horses, because the bikes on the county roads make it difficult for them to pass. Their logic is that bikes should not be used for recreational use on the county roads. And yet they are trailering their horses to the local trails and events to recreationally ride. People can be so dumb.

We also have wineries in our foothills, a while back a group of us would ride around and do some tastings, buy some wine and fill backpacks and panniers, and just have a nice day. One year we hit a small winery at the end of the day and about 10 of us strolled up to the bar and the scowling owner told us to leave - "we do not serve cyclists, bikes do not belong on our county roads". We didn't know he was one of the letter to the editor writers. We walked outside and took a group photo in front of his establishment, ask PeterB for details on how he set things straight (it involves a bare ass).

[Mark McM]

We have the same group of horsie people here in the rural nor CA foothills. They routinely write letters to the editor in local papers about how cyclists engender the safety of their horses, because the bikes on the county roads make it difficult for them to pass. Their logic is that bikes should not be used for recreational use on the county roads. And yet they are trailering their horses to the local trails and events to recreationally ride. People can be so dumb.

Explain to them that bicycles are transportation, horses are not (for most owners). They are large pets at best, and in any case, they are an invasive species and do not have a natural place in the ecology.

I have nothing against horses or their owners, and they deserve access to roads/trails when appropriate, but they deserve no special consideration over others.

[paredown]

NoVA is a sinkhole--too much government money sloshing around, wayyyy too much entitlement, and drivers that all go 15 mph over the posted speed every chance they get.

It is the only place we have lived where they have to put in right turn lanes into apartment complexes and the like--otherwise the idiots will run right in to you.

When we lived there I mostly did not ride--I value my life too much.

[bicycletricycle]

I think that automotive enthusiasts have a lot of valid points in this area. Most roads are not designed around cyclists and having the varying speeds of traffic on them does make them more dangerous for drivers and riders. Also, a lot of cyclists have dangerous habits on the road.

The people in this group may not be representing their concerns very helpfully but they are real concerns.

[William]

We live near a large trail system that has mixed use trails for hikers, bikes, and horses. There are also trails mixed in that they are hiker only, and hiker and horse only. On the mixed use trails every time I encounter people on horses coming toward me I stop, move off the trail, and let them pass. Having been around horses it seems the courteous thing to do so as to not spook them and not get possibly kicked squeezing by them. The riders almost always say thank you and chit-chat as they pass by. The only bad experience I've had is when I ended up on a hiker/horse only trail by accident. I came in off a side trail that wasn't marked well at all. There was a long straight and I could see the woman coming so I pulled off to the side well in advance to wait and drink some water. As she rides up she starts chastising me for being on the trail and how i shouldn't be there. I tried to apologize and explain that I had not seen any thing that stated bikes weren't allowed but I could tell she wasn't buying it. Knowing that there was a junction a little ways back (in the direction she was riding) that would get me back to the main trail system, I waited a little bit and started walking my bike back in that direction. Every so often some gravel would crunch under my cleats and the horse would turn his head back to look. This pissed the woman off even more and she paused at the junction and went off on another diatribe about being on the trail. I could have retorted that I was hiking at this point, which was okay because it wasn't a horse only trail, but I refrained and told her to have a nice day and took off. So, mostly good experiences with horse riders but like in the rest of life, sometimes you run into a-holes.

Explain to them that bicycles are transportation, horses are not (for most owners). They are large pets at best, and in any case, they are an invasive species and do not have a natural place in the ecology.

I have nothing against horses or their owners, and they deserve access to roads/trails when appropriate, but they deserve no special consideration over others.

There is one thing that occurs to me every time I'm on those mixed use trails. Hikers can walk their dogs on many of the trails and there are signs about picking up after them. People will lose their minds if you don't pick up after them. Yet there many times there is horse crap all over the trails. I know it's not really practical for a horse rider to stop and pick up after it, but jeez, sometimes the trails are a real mess. I'm not sure why they get a pass on that one?







W.

[pasadena]

Horse manure is good for the soil
It breaks down fast and turns into dirt.
it contains no viruses that human and dog feces contain. It has no pathogens that can harm humans.

Dog waste, on the other hand, is a pollutant that can harm people and carry disease. Pet waste on the trail is a real problem.
Human waste at campsites is a real problem.



There is one thing that occurs to me every time I'm on those mixed use trails. Hikers can walk their dogs on many of the trails and there are signs about picking up after them. People will lose their minds if you don't pick up after them. Yet there many times there is horse crap all over the trails. I know it's not really practical for a horse rider to stop and pick up after it, but jeez, sometimes the trails are a real mess. I'm not sure why they get a pass on that one?







W.

[Gummee]

NoVA is a sinkhole--too much government money sloshing around, wayyyy too much entitlement, and drivers that all go 15 mph over the posted speed every chance they get.

It is the only place we have lived where they have to put in right turn lanes into apartment complexes and the like--otherwise the idiots will run right in to you.

When we lived there I mostly did not ride--I value my life too much.

Fauquier thinks it isn't NoVA, despite most of it's residents driving to their jobs from there.

This isn't anything new. There's been that sentiment there (and over here in Western Prince William Co) for decades. The difference is that FB and other social media outlets let them congregate and have an echo chamber.

The nutshell is that cars are more capable of going faster on these tiny little roads than the drivers have skills to operate them safely.

The other aspect is that there's been moves 'to the country' by people from Fairfax and inside the beltway. Those folks have brought the 'hurry hurry hurry!' mentality with them.

I may just have to ride over there this weekend 'just because.'

M

[Fixed]

Not very nice folks

[Mike Lopez]

Horse manure is good for the soil
It breaks down fast and turns into dirt.
it contains no viruses that human and dog feces contain. It has no pathogens that can harm humans.

It's easy to understand the health aspects of the different waste types but riding or walking through fresh poop of any kind is less than pleasant.

Perhaps on multi use trails the equestrians should be required to outfit their steed with a catch bag to be courteous of the other users. Didn't they require this in cities back in the day before cars? It's not a new concept.

On single use trails let it fly as usual. They're the ones, or their horses are, that are walking in it.

My concern on our local trails is less about poop and more about the other types of trail damage horses can cause.

[Toeclips]

Maybe she needs an encounter with the guy who keeps flashing everyone in Arlington he's registered by now

[b33]

Northern Virginia is one of the worst places on earth.

If there was ever a "Karen" it's the people on that page.

[charliedid]

People on bikes scare the ***** out of me.

[tctyres]

Did one of you guys get in there and post the "Karens and Kevins" thing. :no:


Cracks me up.
:banana::banana::banana:

[smartyiak]

As a person who regularly drives 10 over...

I always wonder why, in any thread about a cyclist's speed slowing down a motorist, there's a "if I'm traveling at the speed limit..." comment?

It's as though there oblivious to the fact that, technically, they are going the MAXIMUM allowed speed on that particular road...

Not that it changes the stupidity of groups like that...just something I always notice.

[William]

Horse manure is good for the soil
It breaks down fast and turns into dirt.
it contains no viruses that human and dog feces contain. It has no pathogens that can harm humans...

.


That's understandable, but I still don't want poop flying up on me and my bike if I can't avoid it zipping around a curve.

It's easy to understand the health aspects of the different waste types but riding or walking through fresh poop of any kind is less than pleasant.

Perhaps on multi use trails the equestrians should be required to outfit their steed with a catch bag to be courteous of the other users. Didn't they require this in cities back in the day before cars? It's not a new concept.

On single use trails let it fly as usual. They're the ones, or their horses are, that are walking in it.

My concern on our local trails is less about poop and more about the other types of trail damage horses can cause.


I don't know the pros and cons of using a catch bag but it seems like it would be the courteous/prudent thing to do on mixed use trails.

Maybe the horse riders aren't out as much in the rainy months because I don't remember seeing these particular trails being torn up with hoof prints?






W.

[kiwisimon]

This was just posted on my bike club FB page. This area is rural "horse country " in northern Virginia.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/323092532248015/?ref=share

I'm no lawyer so maybe find a cycling friendly one and check.

BUT I would record the names and comments on that page and get all the names on that petition and give them to a personal injury lawyer. Anyone contributing to that page or petition is acknowledging that the roads in Virginia have cyclists and they are aware of them and the risks that driving too fast for the conditions poses to other legal road users. If they are ever involved in an accident with a cyclist it's good proof that they were negligent and are at the very minimum civil suit material.and potential Virginia Law Driving Too Fast for Traffic Conditions § 46.2-861. throw in some injury and things will get very expensive for them.

Post to that FB page to warn them all and encourage them to drive defensively. Best way to respond to stupidity is a friendly legal threat.

[Black Dog]

Just went to take a peek and this is the top post:

Is this another group of Karens and Kevins who can't tolerate to be told to slow down once in a while and share the road?

:)

[pasadena]

They require dump bags on the street because it's a paved street. No waste can decompse there.

mutli use trail laws are a political discussion. If you want those requirements for horses, lobby for it.

I have never had any real problems with horses on the trail. Maybe the odd fresh patty, but even then, it's usually not an issue.

Far greater is the impact of pet poop. Really, we don't need more laws. We need enforcement of exisiting ones.


It's easy to understand the health aspects of the different waste types but riding or walking through fresh poop of any kind is less than pleasant.

Perhaps on multi use trails the equestrians should be required to outfit their steed with a catch bag to be courteous of the other users. Didn't they require this in cities back in the day before cars? It's not a new concept.

On single use trails let it fly as usual. They're the ones, or their horses are, that are walking in it.

My concern on our local trails is less about poop and more about the other types of trail damage horses can cause.

[Vientomas]

This is a prime example of why I am not on Facebook.

[Black Dog]

This is a prime example of why I am not on Facebook.

This.

[colker]

This is a prime example of why I am not on Facebook.

Facebook is a dystopian landscape.

[rccardr]

Facebook is a dystopian landscape.

Lord knows that’s true, and in so many ways.

However, I ride those roads out in the Haymarket/Middleburg/The Plains area quite a bit, and generally speaking, the drivers are cautious and courteous. And there are very few cars, at least on weekdays. Which leads to my surprise that this kind of FB group would start here. Guess it just takes one...

Sure, as a driver you have to be aware of that next blind corner and what might be there to surprise you, but that just seems like ‘driving’ to me.

[parris]

Maybe the person/people that started that group were big shots in their local HOA's and have since moved to non HOA homes and miss the "structure"... :rolleyes:

[Peter P.]

,,, I'd love to understand the psychology of it...

People behave differently with regard to interactions with others when there is distance between the two parties. For instance, you might talk trash to someone 10 feet away, perhaps feeling brave because you have a chance to flee. And the recipient of your trash talk might not be as offended at that distance. Reduce the distance to arm's length, then "in your face" and behavior changes yet again.

Next, the car is an insulator. It protects the driver from harm should they get into an altercation with someone outside. Roll up the windows, lock the doors; there's a sense of invincibility when you can't be harmed. Also, that insulation (and distance) desensitizes the driver to concern of safety or well-being of others for instance, cyclists.

Last, the car acts as a weapon. A person will feel more confident or cocky if they possess a weapon, whatever that is. A car counts.

[jamesdak]

Lord knows that’s true, and in so many ways.

However, I ride those roads out in the Haymarket/Middleburg/The Plains area quite a bit, and generally speaking, the drivers are cautious and courteous. And there are very few cars, at least on weekdays. Which leads to my surprise that this kind of FB group would start here. Guess it just takes one...

Sure, as a driver you have to be aware of that next blind corner and what might be there to surprise you, but that just seems like ‘driving’ to me.

Yep, lots of good folks in VA. All my family is still there although most out in the Shenandoah Valley. Different culture the closer you get to the DC area.

I'd love to spend a summer back there riding my bikes on all the old country roads but I doubt it will ever happen.

[weisan]

I think that automotive enthusiasts have a lot of valid points in this area. Most roads are not designed around cyclists and having the varying speeds of traffic on them does make them more dangerous for drivers and riders. Also, a lot of cyclists have dangerous habits on the road.

The people in this group may not be representing their concerns very helpfully but they are real concerns.

I agree.

[Saxon]

These type of folks eventually got what they wanted from me in my area. There are some beautiful country roads around here I used to ride. The driving has gotten so fast and crazy that the last time I went on one of these routes I was lucky to escape with my life. Just keep driving your cars like maniacs on small winding county roads and the bikers will unfortunately have to leave (if they're smart).:help:

[Nomadmax]

People behave differently with regard to interactions with others when there is distance between the two parties. For instance, you might talk trash to someone 10 feet away, perhaps feeling brave because you have a chance to flee. And the recipient of your trash talk might not be as offended at that distance. Reduce the distance to arm's length, then "in your face" and behavior changes yet again.

Next, the car is an insulator. It protects the driver from harm should they get into an altercation with someone outside. Roll up the windows, lock the doors; there's a sense of invincibility when you can't be harmed. Also, that insulation (and distance) desensitizes the driver to concern of safety or well-being of others for instance, cyclists.

Last, the car acts as a weapon. A person will feel more confident or cocky if they possess a weapon, whatever that is. A car counts.

Right on the money ^^^^.

[oldpotatoe]

Yawn. Much ado about nothing. Life is too short to waste time worrying about some idiots rants on social media.

:banana::banana::banana:
This is a prime example of why I am not on Facebook.

:banana::banana::banana:

[Toeclips]

I grew up in Virginia, my friends all told me I had a death wish, lawyers road comes to mind
I remember riding from seven corners to through tysons corner and beyond I don't think there were any stop lights just intersections
Now,the only safe time to ride in Virginia is during the Shenandoah Fall Festival
Any other time and it's just like being in Florida
Very sad to call tysons progress

[Mr. Pink]

What a loser. Got nothing better to do then create facebook pages against cyclists?

Well, at the expense of being political, this is nothing compared to various political conspiracies spread on the internet, and rounding the corner of another 9/11 anniversary has reminded me of the many wacko scenarios that many still believe about that day, still, after almost twenty years. Right now there are many refusing to leave their homes in Oregon with a wall of fire approaching because they're convinced that maniac anarchists will swoop in and loot their towns and homes, the same anarchists that supposedly started the fires.

I'm pretty much on the side that thinks Facebook is pretty evil.

[Mr. Pink]

But I do agree every cyclist should have a strong tail light, at least. C'mon, people, it's 2020, they're relatively cheap and increase your visibility by a thousand percent.

[echappist]

I grew up in Virginia, my friends all told me I had a death wish, lawyers road comes to mind
I remember riding from seven corners to through tysons corner and beyond I don't think there were any stop lights just intersections
Now,the only safe time to ride in Virginia is during the Shenandoah Fall Festival
Any other time and it's just like being in Florida
Very sad to call tysons progress

Well, Skyline isn't so bad

Neither is the trail on along the Potomac, which I take to ride into DC and Maryland ;)

During my four years there, other than road races, I did not do a single ride over 40 miles, which was all located within VA.

[bigbill]

We had this same issue when I lived in VA Beach. A member of an HOA showed up one morning at Conte's where we were gathering for a group ride. He said they were disturbed by the large groups of cyclists riding through their neighborhood and had complaints that cars couldn't pass the riders. He asked that we hold our speed to under 15 mph in the neighborhood. One of the attorneys in our group asked, "how fast will the cars be going?" The speed limit in the neighborhood varied from 25 to 30 mph and that's how fast we typically rode through the neighborhood. What it came down to was the issue of cars passing us anyway when we were doing the speed limit and causing near-collisions with oncoming cars. The next Saturday there was a police officer in his car watching us ride through. We waved, he waved, nothing ever came of it.

[Toeclips]

Skyline is nice during the off season
I'm mostly talking about being able to just get out the door and ride
WO&D is good for that

[Toeclips]

+1 to mr pink and using tail lights

[echappist]

Skyline is nice during the off season
I'm mostly talking about being able to just get out the door and ride
WO&D is good for that

Yeah, completely agreed.

NoVA is a sprawling mess (kinda like North and Central NJ) and is not so conducive to cycling. The other parts of VA are more resistant to it. It's unfortunate...

Otherwise, great scenery.

[Toeclips]

I see your in Wisconsin, Madison has a rich cycling history
I think they had one of the first rails to trails, I believe wo&d was based on Madison's model

[echappist]

That's an interesting tidbit. Thanks.

Yeah, I kinda "lucked out". My wife is doing graduate studies at UW, and the city and surround areas are quite bike friendly.

I see about as many people on bikes as I did when I lived in Pentagon City, but DC area has much higher population density.

[paredown]

But I do agree every cyclist should have a strong tail light, at least. C'mon, people, it's 2020, they're relatively cheap and increase your visibility by a thousand percent.
I added a cheapy Blackburn tailight this year--USB recharge, featherweight and decent visibility. ~$20 on Amazon...

[bob_in_pa]

Fauquier thinks it isn't NoVA, despite most of it's residents driving to their jobs from there.

This isn't anything new. There's been that sentiment there (and over here in Western Prince William Co) for decades. The difference is that FB and other social media outlets let them congregate and have an echo chamber.

The nutshell is that cars are more capable of going faster on these tiny little roads than the drivers have skills to operate them safely.

The other aspect is that there's been moves 'to the country' by people from Fairfax and inside the beltway. Those folks have brought the 'hurry hurry hurry!' mentality with them.

I may just have to ride over there this weekend 'just because.'

M

You really hit the nail on the head with this.
I see it pretty regularly in SE PA where I live. Between FB echo chambers where they're actions are reinforced, 300+ HP cars being common and everyone being in a hurry, I find myself thinking twice about riding on specific roads or during "peak times".

Be safe out there.
-Bob

[makoti]

Skyline is nice during the off season
I'm mostly talking about being able to just get out the door and ride
WO&D is good for that

You can ride almost anywhere around here, if you're not stupid about it. Pay attention, ride smart, it'll be ok. If that's not something you want to do, there is always Zwift.

[Toeclips]

That's why I moved to Columbia every front door leads to a bike path...60 years old plus now I'm done with roads

[charliedid]

I see your in Wisconsin, Madison has a rich cycling history
I think they had one of the first rails to trails, I believe wo&d was based on Madison's model

That's an interesting tidbit. Thanks.

Yeah, I kinda "lucked out". My wife is doing graduate studies at UW, and the city and surround areas are quite bike friendly.

I see about as many people on bikes as I did when I lived in Pentagon City, but DC area has much higher population density.

Elroy Sparta Trail

I've done it a number of times and always enjoy. You have a ton of options if you like trails and can link some together. You ride that and are not surprised why so many Swiss and northern europeans landed there. Catch it in the fall and if dry can be really stunning.

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topic/parks/elroysparta

[R3awak3n]

I read one comment on that and quickly closed the tab. Not worth interacting with these kind of people imo. You not going to change their mind, they are not going to change your mind.