Upgrading Zonda C17 to USB Ceramic bearings

[ravdg316]

What kit do I need to do this? There seems to be a lot of options. Thanks.

[tv_vt]

And why would you do this? Just curious.

[Black Dog]

And why would you do this? Just curious.

This. Why do it? There is no tangible advantage to doing this.

[biker72]

this. Why do it? There is no tangible advantage to doing this.

+1

[charliedid]

Do what you like. I have no advice on the kit however.

Have fun.

[bigbill]

A Supercharger on a Camaro instead of buying a Corvette in the first place? Campy steel bearings are wonderfully smooth and last a lifetime with a little maintenance.

[ducati2]

https://www.bike24.com/p286983.html

This might be what you need. $250 to gain a claimed 3.5 watts.

[ravdg316]

A Supercharger on a Camaro instead of buying a Corvette in the first place? Campy steel bearings are wonderfully smooth and last a lifetime with a little maintenance.

Everything Campagnolo does with ceramic bearings feels better than their steel stuff. It’s less about performance gains and more about feel. This is coming from someone who owns both chorus and super record. Turbocharged 4 cylinder engines are as fast or faster than older v6s or v8s or even v12s, but the sensory experience to me is much better on the 6, 8 and 12. The same with ceramic stuff. My first experience with super record/ceramic bearings came in early COVID when I got a ridiculous deal on a 5-arm SR crankset. Say what you want about actual performance gains, but spin the crank and compare it to a steel bearing chorus crank and the difference is significant. People aren’t only buying SR/ceramic bearings for vanity.

I owned a pair of shamal c17s but I found the ride to be a bit too stiff. This is likely due to the oversized aluminum spokes. The ceramic hubs however were so smooth and quiet that I’d like to recreate that sensory experience. Zondas with bladed steel spokes and USB bearings seem to be the ticket. Plus at the price I got the Zondas new I would still come out ahead of the market rate for new Zondas. If it’s too much effort I won’t do it, but online kits seem to exist so I’d like to try if the costs are around $100.

[Mark McM]

Everything Campagnolo does with ceramic bearings feels better than their steel stuff. It’s less about performance gains and more about feel. This is coming from someone who owns both chorus and super record. Turbocharged 4 cylinder engines are as fast or faster than older v6s or v8s or even v12s, but the sensory experience to me is much better on the 6, 8 and 12. The same with ceramic stuff. My first experience with super record/ceramic bearings came in early COVID when I got a ridiculous deal on a 5-arm SR crankset. Say what you want about actual performance gains, but spin the crank and compare it to a steel bearing chorus crank and the difference is significant. People aren’t only buying SR/ceramic bearings for vanity.

I owned a pair of shamal c17s but I found the ride to be a bit too stiff. This is likely due to the oversized aluminum spokes. The ceramic hubs however were so smooth and quiet that I’d like to recreate that sensory experience. Zondas with bladed steel spokes and USB bearings seem to be the ticket. Plus at the price I got the Zondas new I would still come out ahead of the market rate for new Zondas. If it’s too much effort I won’t do it, but online kits seem to exist so I’d like to try if the costs are around $100.

Are you claiming that you can actually feel the difference between steel and ceramic bearings while riding? I find that very, very hard to believe. Have you ever tested your ability to sense the difference in a blind test? I suspect not. And if you ever did, I further suspect that you'd find that your powers of discernment aren't nearly as sensitive as you think.

[ducati2]

Not wanting to pile on but I doubt he could consistently “feel” the difference between his Shamal and Zonda wheels either given the same rim width, tires, and air pressure. It’s amazing what marketing and folklore can make us feel.

[ravdg316]

Are you claiming that you can actually feel the difference between steel and ceramic bearings while riding? I find that very, very hard to believe. Have you ever tested your ability to sense the difference in a blind test? I suspect not. And if you ever did, I further suspect that you'd find that your powers of discernment aren't nearly as sensitive as you think.

Yes. It’s subtle but it’s there. I was surprised too. I can’t speak to all ceramic products, only to Campagnolo’s USB and CULT.

It’s also not worth spending thousands on from what I’ve experienced, but $100ish for a Campagnolo ceramic upgrade amortized over the lifespan of the bearings and already discounted wheelset is totally worth it to me.

[pdmtong]

C'mon people, the OP was asking a question and instead gets a scolding. really?

Consider where you are on the cycling ladder.

Look down and wonder why the people below you didn't spend more or are wasting their time riding "that (ugh) stuff".

Look up and either wish you could spend more or wonder why anyone bothered spending more.

[jemoryl]

A Supercharger on a Camaro instead of buying a Corvette in the first place? Campy steel bearings are wonderfully smooth and last a lifetime with a little maintenance.

Its less like a supercharger on a Camaro than something like "I put a carbon fiber hood on my Camaro and it makes a huge difference."

[ravdg316]

C'mon people, the OP was asking a question and instead gets a scolding. really?

Consider where you are on the cycling ladder.

Look down and wonder why the people below you didn't spend more or are wasting their time riding "that (ugh) stuff".

Look up and either wish you could spend more or wonder why anyone bothered spending more.

Paul -- this is where I was years ago, with everything. Why do people drink Aberlour 18 when Jack Daniels and JW Red accomplish the same thing? Why do people buy Carreras when all most of us really need is an FWD 2003 Camry with roof racks? Why do I personally need anything more than a Surly Straggler with Tiagra?

As I got older, I began understanding why anyone bothered spending more, for anything. After some trial and error, I learned I enjoy steel bikes and Campagnolo 11-speed with rim breaks. I also enjoy my Campagnolo equipment with ceramic bearings more than my Campagnolo equipment with steel bearings.

I understand where you all are coming from with the ceramic vs steel. The argument I think goes much deeper, into minimalism/functionality vs excessive consumption due to marketing claims.

In this scenario, please presume I have expressed the same skepticism about ceramic bearings in the past that many of you are expressing now. In my case, I tried them and became a believer after hundreds of miles of experimentation. I would just like some links to accomplish what I would like to accomplish. Any leads that address Zonda C17s specifically would be appreciated!

[pjm]

Are you claiming that you can actually feel the difference between steel and ceramic bearings while riding? I find that very, very hard to believe. Have you ever tested your ability to sense the difference in a blind test? I suspect not. And if you ever did, I further suspect that you'd find that your powers of discernment aren't nearly as sensitive as you think.

Please don’t ride blindfolded.:cool:

[ducati2]

Did you see the link I posted above?

[FlashUNC]

Campy being Campy I would assume their bearings are of the same size to streamline their manufacturing. Should just be a straight swap of the USBs, no?

All Campy bearings are awesome, but they do make mighty fine ceramic stuff.

[bigbill]

Campy being Campy I would assume their bearings are of the same size to streamline their manufacturing. Should just be a straight swap of the USBs, no?

All Campy bearings are awesome, but they do make mighty fine ceramic stuff.

It is straight forward. I have Record cranksets that have since had the USB replaced by steel Chorus bearings. Wheels are the same.

[flying]

f it’s too much effort I won’t do it, but online kits seem to exist so I’d like to try if the costs are around $100.

I am not sure they are what your looking for but...They appear to be the same posted earlier in the Bike24 link but less than half the price (2 sets equal $94.90 )
Also if you spend $5 more on something you qualify for free DHL express shipping ( Free shipping at $99 )

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/campagnolo-hub-bearings/rp-prod193067

[Mark McM]

Paul -- this is where I was years ago, with everything. Why do people drink Aberlour 18 when Jack Daniels and JW Red accomplish the same thing? Why do people buy Carreras when all most of us really need is an FWD 2003 Camry with roof racks? Why do I personally need anything more than a Surly Straggler with Tiagra?

With a nod to the Camaro and the supercharger vs. fiberglass hood analogy -

The differences in feel between steel and ceramic bearings is less like the difference in taste between different whiskeys, and more like the difference in taste between different vodkas. (Hint: there's no discernible difference in taste between quality vodkas.)

[zmalwo]

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_2439_Catalogue_spare%20parts_tools_Campagnolo_ 2020_part_C_Rev01.pdf

So both Zonda and Shamal Ultra use the same cup and cones, all you need are the 4 ceramic assemblies, specifically HB-BO023 (A) for the front hub and 4-HB-HY123 for the rear. the are quite expensive though.

[vespasianus]

I am not sure they are what your looking for but...They appear to be the same posted earlier in the Bike24 link but less than half the price (2 sets equal $94.90 )
Also if you spend $5 more on something you qualify for free DHL express shipping ( Free shipping at $99 )

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/campagnolo-hub-bearings/rp-prod193067


Are those the ceramic bearing or the normal ones? $48 seems really cheap for ceramic!

[makoti]

Are you claiming that you can actually feel the difference between steel and ceramic bearings while riding? I find that very, very hard to believe. Have you ever tested your ability to sense the difference in a blind test? I suspect not. And if you ever did, I further suspect that you'd find that your powers of discernment aren't nearly as sensitive as you think.

I hope not. Collar bones are fragile.

[shinomaster]

Everything Campagnolo does with ceramic bearings feels better than their steel stuff. It’s less about performance gains and more about feel. This is coming from someone who owns both chorus and super record. Turbocharged 4 cylinder engines are as fast or faster than older v6s or v8s or even v12s, but the sensory experience to me is much better on the 6, 8 and 12. The same with ceramic stuff. My first experience with super record/ceramic bearings came in early COVID when I got a ridiculous deal on a 5-arm SR crankset. Say what you want about actual performance gains, but spin the crank and compare it to a steel bearing chorus crank and the difference is significant. People aren’t only buying SR/ceramic bearings for vanity.

I owned a pair of shamal c17s but I found the ride to be a bit too stiff. This is likely due to the oversized aluminum spokes. The ceramic hubs however were so smooth and quiet that I’d like to recreate that sensory experience. Zondas with bladed steel spokes and USB bearings seem to be the ticket. Plus at the price I got the Zondas new I would still come out ahead of the market rate for new Zondas. If it’s too much effort I won’t do it, but online kits seem to exist so I’d like to try if the costs are around $100.

I agree the Shamal hubs are amaaaazzing, and so much fun. The do feel faster imho, especially when going down hill. Have fun.

[pdmtong]

Just for the sake of discussion, let's imagine the OP posted:

"I'm thinking about Bora Ones, but have the money to afford Bora One Ultras.
Should I go for it?"

I bet that responses would fall into two camps...1) no, insignificant gain for a lot more money. the value isnt there or 2) hey, YOLO! go for it!

Here, I suspect the nuance driving most replies is the idea of a bearing upgrade for, guilp, ZONDAS. Who would upgrade ZONDAS?

I'm all for last mile improvements that bring joy while riding - whether they are real or perceived. (note the oversize jockey wheel trend in the RD cage) heck, one could probably claim I have entire bikes where the improvements are perceived.

My only suggestion is to save the steel bearings in case you want to sell the wheels later.

As for the other questions of why buy this instead of that...the answer is "Because I can...." Kinda like the guy I saw yesterday driving his ferrari 488 pista with a big dog in the front seat. "Because he can..."

[Mark McM]

I hope not. Collar bones are fragile.

In bind tests, the subject does not have to be blind to everything, they only need to be blind to the products under test.

Blind tests on wheels have been performed in several ways, including using a shield between the rider and the wheel so the rider can't see the wheel, and by applying a cover to the wheel so that rider couldn't identify it. (similar tests have been done for bicycles).

In blind tests, most riders have demonstrated that they aren't very good in judging one wheel from another.

There have been many blind tests which have demonstrated that subjects have very different perceptions of products when they know their identity, and when they are blinded from their identity. A classic example is wine tasting: When wine is served from two different bottles, tasters generally perceive the wine from the fancier bottle to be superior (even if the bottles contain the exact same wine).

One test that I found most interesting when they played recordings of piano contests to two groups of people, and then asked them who they think the contest judges picked as the winner. The group that was played only the video of the contest (and not the audio) was better at picking the winners than the group was the played only the audio of the contest (and not the video).

And then there is the case of Boston Symphonies audition process where the candidates played behind a curtain (out of sight of the judges), and how the judges perceptions changed when the candidates started going barefoot ...

[shinomaster]

Just for the sake of discussion, let's imagine the OP posted:

"I'm thinking about Bora Ones, but have the money to afford Bora One Ultras.
Should I go for it?"

I bet that responses would fall into two camps...1) no, insignificant gain for a lot more money. the value isnt there or 2) hey, YOLO! go for it!

Here, I suspect the nuance driving most replies is the idea of a bearing upgrade for, guilp, ZONDAS. Who would upgrade ZONDAS?

I'm all for last mile improvements that bring joy while riding - whether they are real or perceived. (note the oversize jockey wheel trend in the RD cage) heck, one could probably claim I have entire bikes where the improvements are perceived.

My only suggestion is to save the steel bearings in case you want to sell the wheels later.

As for the other questions of why buy this instead of that...the answer is "Because I can...." Kinda like the guy I saw yesterday driving his ferrari 488 pista with a big dog in the front seat. "Because he can..."

I think Zonda's are pretty amazing wheels as is. The set I have are before they went wider and roll so smoothly. One time I did a silly wheel spin test (not scientific) and flipped my bike over and spun my Shamals and Neutron Ultras, Zonda's and Kysrium Es wheels, and every single time the Zonda spin for longer, seemingly without effort. The K's were last obviously.

[ravdg316]

In bind tests, the subject does not have to be blind to everything, they only need to be blind to the products under test.

Blind tests on wheels have been performed in several ways, including using a shield between the rider and the wheel so the rider can't see the wheel, and by applying a cover to the wheel so that rider couldn't identify it. (similar tests have been done for bicycles).

In blind tests, most riders have demonstrated that they aren't very good in judging one wheel from another...

And then there is the case of Boston Symphonies audition process where the candidates played behind a curtain (out of sight of the judges), and how the judges perceptions changed when the candidates started going barefoot ...

Interesting. I referenced aberlour 18 earlier — in reality, my friends and I did a blind test of aberlour 18 vs 12 and we unanimously chose the 12 over the 18.

[pdmtong]

Interesting. I referenced aberlour 18 earlier — in reality, my friends and I did a blind test of aberlour 18 vs 12 and we unanimously chose the 12 over the 18.

for spirits, blind is best and really fun. the 18 is smoother and more subtle while the 12 is right there mmm I like this with a bigger mouthfeel. but thats the nuance of time in a bottle (sorry jim croce)

you pay for that nuance with the 18. with prices nowadays, we are far past the era where bigger $$$ equals better whiskey. more $$$ gets you a scarcity premium and age.

[Ken Robb]

Please don’t ride blindfolded.:cool:

When I was 11 I wondered if I could feel the difference between the brand new asphalt and the 3 year-old asphalt in our 'hood. I closed my eyes while riding my Schwinn Traveler and rode about 50 feet. Too bad for me itwas 30 feet forward and 20 feet across the street where I ran into a parked car and ended up sprawled across its front fender. Many tears shed over my very BENT fork. BTW I couldn't feel the change in pavement. :)

[C40_guy]

One time I did a silly wheel spin test (not scientific) and flipped my bike over and spun my Shamals and Neutron Ultras, Zonda's and Kysrium Es wheels...

Dude. Rule 49 (https://www.velominati.com/)!!!!

[Dave]

You need part number HB-BO023 times two for the front and 4-HB-HY123 times two for the rear. These are caged loose balls.

I agree with others that they are a waste of money, but a common price is $40-45 for each item, or $160-180 in total. That's about half the price of a new wheelset.

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/products/campagnolo-hb-hy123-cult-usb-bearings-for-campagnolo-fulcrum-wheels

https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/products/campagnolo-hb-bo023-usb-cult-ceramic-front-bearings?_pos=1&_sid=047b094df&_ss=r

[C40_guy]

I agree the Shamal hubs are amaaaazzing, and so much fun. The do feel faster imho, especially when going down hill. Have fun.

I moved from traditional to Spinergy to Zipp to Mavic and now Eurus. The Eurus wheels "feel" the fastest to me, with the same bike and tires.

Most of my bikes now have Eurus. I'm building up a Colnago Master with Shamals, and am curious to see if I notice any difference...

[flying]

Are those the ceramic bearing or the normal ones? $48 seems really cheap for ceramic!

No idea I just posted them because they look identical to the ones in this posted link
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2789948&postcount=7

That aside & having had my Zonda C17's apart to grease I think the bearings mentioned in Dave's post are most likely what your looking for.
The Zonda C17 does not have sealed bearings but caged like he shows in his link
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2790145&postcount=32

[jkbrwn]

Not here to scald OP as I sold him the wheels, but did you fit and ride them yet?

[ravdg316]

Not here to scald OP as I sold him the wheels, but did you fit and ride them yet?

No sir. Was thinking of doing this beforehand. Looks like the solutions aren’t cost effective so I’m going to ride as is as soon as it cools down a bit

[shinomaster]

I moved from traditional to Spinergy to Zipp to Mavic and now Eurus. The Eurus wheels "feel" the fastest to me, with the same bike and tires.

Most of my bikes now have Eurus. I'm building up a Colnago Master with Shamals, and am curious to see if I notice any difference...

My bike was upside down, inside on a Persian rug.. I don't think you'll notice much difference in the wheels.. maybe when coasting .. they just seem different somehow.

[Hellgate]

This forum kills it again. The man asks a simple question and is shot down from all sides. It's his wheelset and his money. If he was trick bearings more power to him.

[shinomaster]

This forum kills it again. The man asks a simple question and is shot down from all sides. It's his wheelset and his money. If he was trick bearings more power to him.

Not shot down from all sides. He should go for it.. see if there's a difference.

[oldpotatoe]

Yes. It’s subtle but it’s there. I was surprised too. I can’t speak to all ceramic products, only to Campagnolo’s USB and CULT.

It’s also not worth spending thousands on from what I’ve experienced, but $100ish for a Campagnolo ceramic upgrade amortized over the lifespan of the bearings and already discounted wheelset is totally worth it to me.

BUT, that 'kit' doesn't include the cups, yes? Just the cones and bearings. These cups are MUCH softer steel than the ones used in USB bearings and get a bit of grit in there and the cups will go south quickly..

For info.
Campy being Campy I would assume their bearings are of the same size to streamline their manufacturing. Should just be a straight swap of the USBs, no?

All Campy bearings are awesome, but they do make mighty fine ceramic stuff.


See above..all use 15 per side, 5/32 bearing balls BUT their USB stuff, cups and cones are VERY different.

[oldpotatoe]

I am not sure they are what your looking for but...They appear to be the same posted earlier in the Bike24 link but less than half the price (2 sets equal $94.90 )
Also if you spend $5 more on something you qualify for free DHL express shipping ( Free shipping at $99 )

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/campagnolo-hub-bearings/rp-prod193067

I guess I'm missing something but how do you install cartridge bearings in cup and ball hubs?

Unless these are the bearings for the FreeHub Body..

Never mind, these 'look' like cart bearings but they are cups and cones and bearings and seals..gotta have a special tool to remove old cups tho..

[vincenz]

Having owned many Campy wheels with both steel and ceramic bearings, I can’t tell any difference. A measurable difference may be there, but you’d need to verify with a power meter, and even then you’d not be able to feel 2 watts of difference. However, if any perceived difference makes you feel/be faster or have a more enjoyable ride, then go for it.

To me, not worth the hassle and not really good value, even if you got the wheels for free. I’d save the money for some Boras.

[Dave]

Browsing the Campy spare parts list, I see different part numbers for the cups and cones of some models with ceramic bearings, but not all.

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_2411_Catalogue_spare%20parts_tools_Campagnolo2 019_part_C_Rev02_12_2018.pdf

Here's the Hambini opinion on ceramic hybrid bearings:

https://www.hambini.com/ceramic-bearings-vs-steel-bearings-an-engineering-analysis/

[parallelfish]

Browsing the Campy spare parts list, I see different part numbers for the cups and cones of some models with ceramic bearings, but not all.

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_2411_Catalogue_spare%20parts_tools_Campagnolo2 019_part_C_Rev02_12_2018.pdf

Here's the Hambini opinion on ceramic hybrid bearings:

https://www.hambini.com/ceramic-bearings-vs-steel-bearings-an-engineering-analysis/

Because there are two versions of Campy ceramic bearings - USB and CULT. The latter is much more expensive requiring the use of their own cups and cones specifically hardened for the CULT bearings.

[slambers3]

Everything Campagnolo does with ceramic bearings feels better than their steel stuff. It’s less about performance gains and more about feel. This is coming from someone who owns both chorus and super record. Turbocharged 4 cylinder engines are as fast or faster than older v6s or v8s or even v12s, but the sensory experience to me is much better on the 6, 8 and 12. The same with ceramic stuff. My first experience with super record/ceramic bearings came in early COVID when I got a ridiculous deal on a 5-arm SR crankset. Say what you want about actual performance gains, but spin the crank and compare it to a steel bearing chorus crank and the difference is significant. People aren’t only buying SR/ceramic bearings for vanity.

I owned a pair of shamal c17s but I found the ride to be a bit too stiff. This is likely due to the oversized aluminum spokes. The ceramic hubs however were so smooth and quiet that I’d like to recreate that sensory experience. Zondas with bladed steel spokes and USB bearings seem to be the ticket. Plus at the price I got the Zondas new I would still come out ahead of the market rate for new Zondas. If it’s too much effort I won’t do it, but online kits seem to exist so I’d like to try if the costs are around $100.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Zondas, Shamal, and a lot of other campagnolo hubs should have the same OS axle...

If you’re feeling a stiffness difference between zonda and shamal, it’s the thick aluminum spokes

[vespasianus]

Browsing the Campy spare parts list, I see different part numbers for the cups and cones of some models with ceramic bearings, but not all.

https://www.campagnolo.com/media/files/035_2411_Catalogue_spare%20parts_tools_Campagnolo2 019_part_C_Rev02_12_2018.pdf

Here's the Hambini opinion on ceramic hybrid bearings:

https://www.hambini.com/ceramic-bearings-vs-steel-bearings-an-engineering-analysis/


What is interesting about that Hambini video is that it is the most un-hambini video I have seen. He is calm, rational and an adult.

[oldpotatoe]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Zondas, Shamal, and a lot of other campagnolo hubs should have the same OS axle...

If you’re feeling a stiffness difference between zonda and shamal, it’s the thick aluminum spokes

They do. Yup, not a "flexing" axle.

Yup again.
What is interesting about that Hambini video is that it is the most un-hambini video I have seen. He is calm, rational and an adult.

His mom give him a timeout?

[vespasianus]

His mom give him a timeout?

I know. Actually, it makes me think his behavior in other videos is an act.

[oldpotatoe]

I know. Actually, it makes me think his behavior in other videos is an act.

Unless there are many threads about how his videos are now informative and free from crude sexist remarks, I'll pass thanks.

[fignon's barber]

Unless there are many threads about how his videos are now informative and free from crude sexist remarks, I'll pass thanks.

Me too. I attempted to watch one, but the crude insults to the manufacturers were so obviously planned to be "shocking". Was clear he was just trying to be the Howard Stern of cycling review vlogs. Not for me.

[vespasianus]

Unless there are many threads about how his videos are now informative and free from crude sexist remarks, I'll pass thanks.

Eek, not recommending him. Not a fan of the act.

[zmalwo]

Zonda and Shamal both use the same race and cone. Just buy the bearings and swap them you are done. I suggest the generic ones because they are so much cheaper.

[weiwentg]

...

Here's the Hambini opinion on ceramic hybrid bearings:

https://www.hambini.com/ceramic-bearings-vs-steel-bearings-an-engineering-analysis/

And here (https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Hybrid-Ceramic-Vs-Steel-Bearings-Article-2.pdf) is Adam Kerin's opinion on ceramic vs steel bearings. Kerin is actually aware of Hambini's work, but when Kerin pressed Hambini for more detail on his testing protocol, Hambini responded with bluster and obfuscation. Kind of like with his aero testing.

Also, at least with the aero testing, Hambini's results aren't all that out of line with what others have found (AFAIK). With bearings, Kerin seems to think that a lot of Hambini's contentions are off base.

Naturally, that doesn't mean ceramic bearings are necessarily worth it. I'm just not going to trust anything Hambini says.

[zmalwo]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ceramic-Bearing-Ball-Kit-4-HB-HY123-Fit-For-Campagnolo-Zonda-EURUS-BORA-NEUTRON/352462860377?hash=item52106c7059:g:enoAAOSwbDlbnnw R

Here you go. $40 vs $260 campagnolo genuine

[s4life]

I might be cheaper -- time wise -- to sell your Zondas and buy Shamal Ultras