Gap Year

[verticaldoug]

I know many on here have college aged students. We get a lot of advice from people without college age students, advising to take a gap year. I write the response off as flippant. We have looked at opportunities, and there doesn't seem to be anything really fitting when factoring in risk reward. If she wanted to go build Habitat for Humanity houses in South America, or work with orphans in a 3rd world country, she might as well get sick here and move forward with school.

Is she missing something?

[AngryScientist]

Is she missing something?

yes. IMO.

the college experience is going to be a red hot mess this year.

either "remote" learning, which is not worth paying full boat tuition for and completely missing the aspect of learning independent living away from the nest

or

in person education, which is going to be, at best, a completely uncertain, distracted waste of time. thinking that students will get the same educational experience wearing masks in classrooms, staying 6' away from each other and living in constant uncertainty over whether there will be an outbreak from the party you secretely went to last night is, to put it best - far from ideal.

if it were my child, or me - there is basically zero chance i would begin my college education this semester under the current circumstances.

[SoCalSteve]

yes. IMO.

the college experience is going to be a red hot mess this year.

either "remote" learning, which is not worth paying full boat tuition for and completely missing the aspect of learning independent living away from the nest

or

in person education, which is going to be, at best, a completely uncertain, distracted waste of time. thinking that students will get the same educational experience wearing masks in classrooms, staying 6' away from each other and living in constant uncertainty over whether there will be an outbreak from the party you secretely went to last night is, to put it best - far from ideal.

if it were my child, or me - there is basically zero chance i would begin my college education this semester under the current circumstances.

Nick,

Very well said!

Steve

[jkbrwn]

Likewise. I work at a prestigous performing arts university and our students are having to play/dance/act remotely for faculty members via Zoom for the majority of their learning for at least the first semester of the year. But tuition hasn't changed. A single semester costs roughly $16,420. That much cash for remote learning? No thank you! If she can defer without issue, then she should defer IMO. Hopefully by next year, her learning experience will be far more 'normal'. I guess the only consideration is what will she actually be able to do with her gap year taking COVID into account...

[verticaldoug]

yes. IMO.

the college experience is going to be a red hot mess this year.

either "remote" learning, which is not worth paying full boat tuition for and completely missing the aspect of learning independent living away from the nest

or

in person education, which is going to be, at best, a completely uncertain, distracted waste of time. thinking that students will get the same educational experience wearing masks in classrooms, staying 6' away from each other and living in constant uncertainty over whether there will be an outbreak from the party you secretely went to last night is, to put it best - far from ideal.

if it were my child, or me - there is basically zero chance i would begin my college education this semester under the current circumstances.

We get this, but the question is what to do that fills the GAP?

We keep coming back to the conclusion that you will get sick somewhere else so best to remain on campus, with friends, independent, and move forward.
Keep calm and soldier on so to speak.

[Mikej]

What is her major? I wouldn’t waste a year on doing nothing. As far as getting sick, meh, could happen at home even.

[old fat man]

Are you in CT by chance? With two elementary aged kids, we are scrambling to find resources who can tutor or even just engage with our kids on the week (every other) that they are doing distance learning? The distance learning is for 60 minutes in the afternoon with their teachers, 4 days a week. Most elementary students will need someone to keep them focused on completing the at home assignments for the rest of the day.

If she has any interest in kids, she could likely find a lot of opportunity to tutor, babysit, nanny, taxi, etc for those of us full time working families who are desperate for help while our school systems are doing partial or complete distance learning.

[OtayBW]

See if she can line up some kind of internship in her chosen field of study (or perhaps something else). Could be a win-win in the right scenario.

[dbh]

If it were me (my kids aren't college age yet), I'd recommend a gap year for sure. The college experience is going to be a shell of its former self. Not worth spending the $ at a top flight university for a second rate experience. I say this from the perspective of someone who works in higher ed administration.

Since most classes will be remote, and the on-campus experience will be significantly curtailed, I'd have my kid stay home and take remote classes from a local community college for credit. Think of it as an opportunity to get some core requirements out of the way. For example, I was a social sciences and humanities person in college. I hated the math and science requirement. If I could have done a math class at a community college for little $, it would have opened time in my course schedule later down the line for something I was more passionate about. Again, that doesn't get your kid out of the house, but it does give them something productive to do. Another area worth thinking about is intensive remote language instruction. It's another area where the quality of in person instruction at an expensive four year college doesn't differ significantly from the community college or other experience. Maybe your kid did a language in high school and wants to keep it up or master it intensively for a year? It's actually a productive use of time.

Think about other academic skills. Maybe take the year to learn to code -- always a useful and marketable skill set. Visual arts are another great use of a gap year if your kid is based at home. It will take some self discipline and access to some tools and other resources, but it's a great opportunity for him/her to build their portfolio.

Think about possible unstructured time outdoors. Imagine all the camping and hiking opportunities that can be done in a COVID safe environment. It's not classroom learning, but something your kid could remember for the rest of his/her life.

[mhespenheide]

It’s a very valid question to ask, considering costs and risks.

What do you and she want to get out of a gap year?

[AngryScientist]

We get this, but the question is what to do that fills the GAP?



i wouldnt put so much pressure on making sure it's a productive year. look at what the rest of us and the rest of the world is doing. we're all kind of coasting, trying to maintain position and treading water in this uncertain time.

maybe knock out some community college level classes [virtual] in her probably field of study to make sure that's what she wants to do. maybe it will spark her interests and she will then have a more focused, productive time once she goes full time.

it's a tough decision and i'm not making light of it, certainly a lot to think about. good luck to you and the family!

[daker13]

.............

[unterhausen]

Lots of information missing here. How self-motivated is the student? How much tuition are we talking?

My educational progression can be summed up by the joke that goes as follows: after undergrad, you think you know everything, after masters, you realize you know nothing. After a Ph.D., you realize your advisor knows nothing. I.e., the marginal value of any given class is small. Meet the requirements for a degree and get out.

I would get done with college as soon as possible. It's not a good year to go explore the world, may not even be possible and every country wants 14 days quarantine if they will even let you in. The truth is, enough schools have tried to open and failed that I doubt anyone is going to really stay open through fall semester. So it's going to be online until fall 2021.

As always, be quick to drop a course if it's obvious the prof isn't going to be understanding of the difficulties of online learning.

This is a very interesting thread that explains why universities have opened even though it's just wishful thinking
https://twitter.com/BretDevereaux/status/1295909929228873728

[Waldo62]

Snip:
if it were my child, or me - there is basically zero chance i would begin my college education this semester under the current circumstances.

Easy to criticize a choice without offering viable alternatives, isn't it? Gap year options suck also.

Maybe defer and do a semester or a year at a JC while living at home?

My daughter and four friends -- all sophomores at a large University of California campus -- signed a lease on a house in March. Lease runs July 1-June 30. Because the campus is on the quarter system, the school has a luxury of not having finalized its plans. We fully expect it to be 100% remote, possibly save for some labs. My daughter is in humanities, so she won't have labs. She and her housemates can be as extremely careful, but their fates also lie in the hands of people they encounter. We realize there's probably an even chance of my daughter getting Covid. While she thrived academically during her freshman year, including the home-bound Spring quarter, socially she hated it. She is an adult and is entitled to make choices. She and her housemates will move in in a couple of weeks. School starts in late September. We support her decision.

[AngryScientist]

Snip:

Easy to criticize a choice without offering viable alternatives, isn't it?

edit:

you take the low road, i'll take the high road and politely suggest you read both of my previous posts before you hop on yur jump to conclusions mat.

Also, i dont know what part of my response you see s criticism, doug asked for opinions and as i clearly stated "IMO", i just presented my opinion, which is not criticism.

[ORMojo]

I took a gap year before college, and several more before finishing my Bachelors almost 10 years later, to travel the world. One of the best choices I've ever made. And I made that initial choice about 2 months before I was supposed to start my Freshman year at the college I was already all set to attend. I made the choice only because I knew, for certain, that it was what I wanted to do.

My oldest daughter took a gap year and did the Rotary year abroad. Also an excellent choice for her. My next-oldest daughter was very excited about getting to college right away, so that is what she did.

I will absolutely leave this option, and choice, completely open to my two youngest children.

All of which leads to my advice - let your daughter do what she wants to do - what feels right in her heart & head. I realize the choice is complicated by the current situation, and that will factor in to her decision, but in the end, I think the choice should be more about what she feels is right for her, rather than any attempt to dispassionately assess a bunch of factors and make an analytical choice.

[mjb266]

I work at a community college and see it as the best option at this point. They are less expensive and the mode of instruction is essentially the same. With remote learning, you may even be able to cherry pick the school you attend in state so that you can pick the one with "better" faculty. Check that there are articulation agreements (Direct Transfer Agreements) in place, and get some of those early courses out of the way.

The reality is that this pandemic sucks for everyone. I work with a ton of student employees, and I'm surprised at how many were thinking they would just get a job bagging groceries when they had the alternative of taking Calculus 3 or Engineering Statics that would transfer to a R-1 engineering school. It's a very special time, and any forward movement right now is going to be a big plus. You gotta figure you're either going to come out of this experience ahead of where you were when it started, stagnant, or behind...I'd want to keep scrapping forward if at all possible.

What I wouldn't do is have her attend a private for-profit institution. The thought of spending $40k or more a year when you could spend $4k or less for the same experience is a pretty straight forward decision in my line of thinking.

I do think gap years can be super valuable...but given that no country wants to recieve a US visitor these days, and most non-profits are trying to reduce exposure as we weather this...I'd save my gap year for later.

[prototoast]

I think the answer here depends on what type of university your child is attending. If it's an expensive private college/university, I would take a gap year. So much of the value of those universities is the experiences and networking so doing a year remotely would kill a lot of the value. If it's a larger public school (particularly a commuter school), I'd keep going remotely.

As for what to do in a gap year, ideally there would be some structure to it, but doesn't have to involve travel or some formal program. If your child has academic ambitions, setting a goal of an independent research project could be productive, and also a good screener for whether or not grad school is a good option in the future. If your child has extracurricular ambitions, trying to come up with a project revolving around that could be really good too.

[zambenini]

I couldn't agree with Nick more - and I work in education & so does Mrs. Z.

Also, question the myth of linear progress whenever you find it - it's a holdover from Darwinian thinking and iterative change imo - Stephen J. Gould rules the world now - punctuated equilibrium; our time is kind of a weird metaphor for that punctuated equilibrium. There's no reason a year spent reading classic literature while spending as much time with family as possible and working a workaday job is lost time. In fact, that sounds kinda good - and maybe the precursor to a big jump forward for a student. Besides some of those gap year experiences can be kind of precious atmo.

[akelman]

My sense was that the OP was asking for feedback specifically from people who have college-age kids or otherwise relevant information. Given that, I'll say that I'm the father of a rising first-year student, that we've had to deal with this question, and also that I'm an professor and administrator at a research university. If the OP would like my views, he should feel free to send me a PM.

In the meantime, I'll say that there are, as someone mentioned upthread, a LOT of variable to consider: the needs and abilities of the student and what s/he wants, whether s/he can thrive or even survive in a remote-learning context, what other options are out there for the student, how willing/able the parents are to float the student financially for a relatively unproductive year, how the school in question is handling the pandemic, the odds that the school will pivot to a different operational status mid-year, etc. None of these are easy questions to answer, but they provide a good starting place for an informed decision, which, nevertheless, will be tough.

[572cv]

There are some very small schools out there which have hands on learning programs. The class sizes are tiny. They schools are rural. Covid Risk management can be successful. The trick would be to find one with programs that fit the student's interest, if only tangentially, and have a positive maybe only one year or one semester experience. An example I think of around here:

https://sterlingcollege.edu

They've been resilient and pragmatic over time, offer well regarded programs with practical outcomes. I guess I'm suggesting that this might be a time to try an alternative learning experience that otherwise might not be considered. Best of luck to all the parents of college age kids. This is an extremely trying time, for sure.

[EDS]

We get this, but the question is what to do that fills the GAP?

We keep coming back to the conclusion that you will get sick somewhere else so best to remain on campus, with friends, independent, and move forward.
Keep calm and soldier on so to speak.

Family and friends with college age kids tell me their kids, in most cases, do not want to stay home if all their friends are leaving for college - even knowing some/many may be back in the near term due to outbreaks/etc.

It is a tough call. If you are a returning student (versus a freshman) I imagine it would be difficult to stay home if the majority of your friends were staying in school.

[Marvinlungwitz]

.

[Spaghetti Legs]

One of the many really sucky things about this pandemic is the lack of a road map and the hard choices that need to be made with excellent arguments to be made for and against each choice. There are probably fulfilling, productive experiences that can be achieved with a gap year in this environment but the window is fast closing, if not already closed on setting those kinds of things up. If your child passes on college this year, odds are good it might be a lost year - some menial work or no work, maybe saving up some money for college, but any activity might produce as much health risk as attending school. Big picture, gap year means an extra year of Mom and Dad support.

My oldest will be starting junior year in college in LA. Classes will be online. He stayed in LA over the summer taking summer classes (on line ) and working remotely at his student job. After much discussion and hand-wringing, we brought him home for a couple of weeks for the first time since January. He’s actually going back a few days early so he can be with his group of house mates. That tells me he’s getting extra out of being there as he’s been doing his summer classes the whole time he’s been home.

Probably not helpful, but there you go. Good luck, hard choice I know.

[bigbill]

If the college offers a co-op program, that is an option. It means your kid won't graduate in four years, but they'll have work experience. Schools with co-op programs offer an hour or more of credit so the student stays enrolled while they're out working for a corporation.

My son is back at Annapolis, they're attending online classes from their rooms in Bancroft Hall. The whole place is quarantined and he's been tested four times in the past month. It's easier when you can just shut the gates and post an armed guard. Like prison with better food.

[Spaghetti Legs]

If the college offers a co-op program, that is an option. It means your kid won't graduate in four years, but they'll have work experience. Schools with co-op programs offer an hour or more of credit so the student stays enrolled while they're out working for a corporation.

My son is back at Annapolis, they're attending online classes from their rooms in Bancroft Hall. The whole place is quarantined and he's been tested four times in the past month. It's easier when you can just shut the gates and post an armed guard. Like prison with better food.

Are they still jumping the wall at night?

[phishrabbi]

I wish I had taken time off to explore the world before college. I'm going to encourage my children to do so as well in a few years.

[spank]

[apologies in advance for my overly-wordy post]

Background: HS teacher for 7 years. Before that, I was college freshman in my mid-20's. Before that, a bike racer wannabe for 2-1/2 years (3 Summers in Italy w/ brief forays into Belgium France and Germany-- all pre 9/11) and before that, a bike racer wannabe and minimum wage worker to fund the bike thing and also had done 1 semester of jr college right out of HS.

I was not focused on education as a hs student. I tried "13th grade" simply because that's what I'd been programmed to do and quickly recognized I was just spinning my wheels and did not enroll for the spring semester.

Circumstance had me do the Europe thing for an intended 1 month that turned into 6 months that turned into another 2 years.

That experience overseas really helped to sculpt my world view and opened my eyes to not only who "I" was but where I felt I fit in moving forward.

I became convinced that, were I ever to have children, I would encourage them to go spend at least a few months outside of high school in another part of the world, outside of their comfort zone. That could be outside of the US or that could be somewhere inside the US, but either way I thought it was important it be someplace away from their status quo.

School is quite a sheltered environment and it just churns peope through a machine if they let it. I was part of that system for 7 years. And I worked alongside people who had never been outside of a school environment -- HS to College to Grad School and then back to HS. My opinion of some of these people from that closed loop is that they can be quite dangerous.

Of course, there are kids who are ready for college after graduation and there are kids who would just be going because that's what they are told to do by the system / parent / peers. If $ is no object, go ahead and potentially set it on fire and send her/him off to school.

Going off and seeing how the world works in a place other than where one grows up is an INCREDIBLE lesson. Not everyone is ready for or can handle that.

The way I view school is that it is just an artificial accelerated life experience in a protected environment that gets more focused/specific as one continues through it. If one were to just go out into the world, I feel the whole "Groundhog Day" movie scenario could play out. It just takes more time.

When I went overseas for those 3ish years and then returned to school-- besides being the annoying "old guy" who was constantly raising his hand and engaging the teachers in stimulating (for me) dialogue while the sea of 18yr olds around me just groaned each time I was called on-- I was also the fully-focused guy with a clear education-to-career path and I was able to make connections between what the teacher was saying and what I'd witnessed/experienced out in the world. Each paper I wrote was rich with life experience and real-world connections. Plus I was able to graduate Magna Cum Laude... which would make my HS teachers die of shock if they ever heard that.

Could I have done that if I had stuck with the college thing out of HS? Heck no.

I now have a kid who is about a half-dozen years from where your kid is, and if the world were a more peaceful place, I would say upon his HS graduation I would want to just gift him a flight to a major european city, a eurorail pass (are those still a thing?) and a few grand in traveler's checks (or equivalent-- I realize that too is showing my age). I would possibly have a pre-arranged contact person/acquaintance who has volunteered to be the "Greeter" at some other destination within another day's travel from where the plane lands.

But the world ain't what it used to be (or what we thought it used to be). And I'm no longer in the education field. And, while it isn't supposed to matter, I am neither female nor do I have a daughter.

And each kid is different.

You know your child. If you are not sure, talk to her former HS teachers and/or friends who know her and put your questions about her to them. And, or course, ask HER what she wants to do and let that help guide your desire. She is (or should be near) 18 years old. The decisions are hers to make and for you to support or attempt to influence. Can you trust her with a blanket "You have $XX of support coming to you, and that can either be in money for education or money for future food and rent or ..."?

Because I'm realizing I'm writing waaaaay too much to just come to an indefinite conclustion, I will conclude on this talking point:

If continuing school is her thing, consider suggesting that she go to a Junior College where tuition rates are MUCH lower and just be sure to research the education credits will transfer to the 4-yr university of her choice. She will likely have greater success getting into the #1 college of her choice as a sophomore or even a junior than as a frosh. She will have at least some of the basic GE requirements out of the way and for a fraction of the cost of a 4yr university, and she can dabble in experimental classes in fields that she might not have known she would enjoy and also at a fraction of the cost. I would also encourage that this be at a JC that is NOT the "local JC" so that she just isn't hanging out with her same peers from HS who are doing the same thing (When it opens up as a physical campus). Make it the JC a town away, if that's an option. Or even a state away and have her stay with a family member/friend/acquaintance until she gets her own place.

[daker13]

Under normal circumstances, I think a gap year can be a great thing, but I'll repeat something I said above: if one's kid takes a gap year (and hasn't simply deferred admission), isn't it reasonable to assume it's going to be twice as hard to get into a good school next year?

[fredd]

College student here.

I'm taking a leave of absence from my studies for the semester and potentially for the full year as I simply don't see the point in paying full tuition for online classes, when I have access to a multitude of online learning resources for a fraction of the price. Staying with my parents and self isolating isn't how I idealized the year to be, but I understand that going back to school wouldn't be much better.

I got lucky to land a pretty nice research job for the next few months, but even if I didn't I'd still not resume my studies. There are plenty of projects to get involved with online, many of which will pay. If your kid can afford to not be paid while she stays with you, damn near any smaller NGO will take volunteer work and will look good on a resume as well as teaching more than a semester of online classes.

I really don't see the point of resuming studies just to finish college that much earlier, cause tbh that's the only advantage I see in going back to school this semester.

[Kirk007]

Our son is 28 and had a winding path to adulthood which included dropping out of high school at 16. That path isn't over as he is contemplating more education options.

My take - too many approach education as if it's a forced march and the first one finished wins. In the course of a 70-80+ year life, a single year, timewise, matters little. I'm with Angry - this is a time unlike any generation from boomers to current kids have ever known. It's not normal, cannot be normalized so why keep trying to swim against the current? Find a more viable option, on-line community college, learn some life skills - cooking, another language, photography, website development whatever to keep from being entirely idle and bored. The years at a 4 year, in person school are too valuable to be so severely compromised as will happen this year.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

[Waldo62]

I took a year off uni for personal reasons between my junior and senior years in 1983-'84. I worked two jobs and had an internship before returning to school and finishing. Though I learned some things, I would not call the time I took off a year of profound personal growth. One thing the university counselor, who met with me after I informed the school of my decision to take a year off, emphasized in her efforts to convince me stay in school was that a lot of people who take time off do not complete their degrees. It's been a long time and I don't remember the numbers she quoted to me, so I can't quantify "a lot" for you, and indisputably we are living in very different times, but this would be something to consider before taking a year off. Do we know that our colleges and universities will be back to in-person instruction for the 2021-'22 academic year? If they are not, what then -- another year off?..........

[ridethecliche]

I started grad school at 25 after spending a few years working after college.

If my family could have afforded to help me take a gap year either before college or during it, I would have jumped at the chance looking back at it. We were never in a position to do so.

Does your daughter speak another language? If not, a living immersion is a pretty incredible thing you can do if the opportunity presents itself.

FWIW, some of the most interesting classmates I had in grad school had winding roads there. If anything, it gave them a broader perspective and made them more focused. They're certainly not hurting from the experience now. I think you need to have some sort of focus for it, but I believe that a lot of folks are going to be in this boat.

[weisan]

Hello Wei San,

How are you? Hope all is well. This is Helen, former intern and 2017 Get Ready alumna. I heard from my friend that you're leading the internship program again this year. That's awesome, given the COVID situation!

Stanford just released their 2020-2021 school plan least week. It looks like most learning will be done remotely, which is far from the college experience I was hoping for, so I'm thinking about taking a gap year to do an internship instead. I was searching for internships and found a great UI internship at NASA this fall. It requires a rec letter from a previous employer, and the deadline is today. I understand that this is a big rush, but I'd really appreciate it if you could submit the same letter that you used before for me.

Thanks a ton,

Helen
Stanford University – Class of 2023 ..

[ariw]

I took a gap year in Israel, 92-93, and it was a great experience. Some studying, some travel, some volunteering, a lot of learning and growing. A much safer place to be now compared to most places in the US. I came into college much more mentally prepared and I think that it made a huge difference in my success.

FWIW, I wouldn’t start school this year or want my kid to, too much conspiring against success. Mine are 11 and 14 though, so I have a few years. If there is any way they can wait, I would try to do so.

Ari

[ORMojo]

interestingly, this same question is confronting a lot of parents of potential kindergartners.

My youngest started K last year . . . and I don't know that I can honestly say that he "finished" kindergarten. I think it is going to be very hard for him to engage with the start of 1st grade in a few weeks, given that it is going to be 100% distance learning through at least Thanksgiving. He thrived during in-school K last year, but had almost zero interest in finishing out last year via distance learning. Add to that the past 2+ months of summer fun & games. I just don't know what his experience of "school" will turn out like come September. Although he is plenty intelligent - fully reading, and quite proficient with numbers - I'm much more concerned about the longer term impact of all this on him than I am on his entering-6th-grade sister.

I have two employees who have decided to not enroll their 5-year-olds in kindergarten this year. They will hold them back a full year. Is it a "gap year" if it falls between closed day cares and kindergarten? Especially having experienced the past year with my youngest, if I had a 5-year-old I would also defer K for a year.

[Skenry]

My son is a junior computer engineer major with co-op requirements so he is at school. Moved him in about 2 weeks ago, a wonderful ****ty expensive rental house with 4 other guys. His twin brother went to trade school as an auto mechanic and just bought his first house. Education is important.

But if I had a freshman, they'd be at home doing their general requirements at community college for 1/5th the price (at least).

[batman1425]

I think it depends heavily on the student. Online education can absolutely be effective and the right student will thrive with it. Some really need in person experiences to keep them engaged. The student needs to figure out which one they are and if they will be able to get what they need out of the experience they have access to.

Another data point to consider... A large number of instructors are teaching partly or completely online this semester, for the first time. Online instruction is a whole different beast than the traditional classroom environment. Every faculty member I know is doing everything possible to make it as good as they can make it, but it is unreasonable to expect faculty that have limited experience with online education to hit their usual standards in this new format on this time scale. Managing expectations (on both sides) is essential. I wouldn't fault a student for a second for pumping the brakes to wait for the experience that will serve them best.

[peanutgallery]

Dropped the boy off last week for his first year of college... against my better judgement but we did it anyways. The reason, he simply isn't built for a gap year, academic interest came late for him and he's on a roll for the last few years. He wanted to go and was self motivated to do so. Not really anything else to do and it's time for him to move forward with life, so away he went. Not like he could travel or whatever. Oddly enough, the school had plenty of solo dorm rooms available at no extra cost

Feedback thus far? College is currently a cross between a monastery and a low security prison. Every kid is different so you have to run with it. Personally, I'm happy the boy is motivated to do something. Curious to see how long staying on campus and attending a few classes lasts

Expecting academia to have a collective come to Jesus after all this, pretty sure there will be a lot places going out of business

[peanutgallery]

This sounds a lot like the messaging I receive daily from the boy's school:) In reality, the schools are bumbling around unprepared just like the rest of us, just unwilling to admit it

I think it depends heavily
on the student. Online education can absolutely be effective and the right student will thrive with it. Some really need in person experiences to keep them engaged. The student needs to figure out which one they are and if they will be able to get what they need out of the experience they have access to.

Another data point to consider... A large number of instructors are teaching partly or completely online this semester, for the first time. Online instruction is a whole different beast than the traditional classroom environment. Every faculty member I know is doing everything possible to make it as good as they can make it, but it is unreasonable to expect faculty that have limited experience with online education to hit their usual standards in this new format on this time scale. Managing expectations (on both sides) is essential. I wouldn't fault a student for a second for pumping the brakes to wait for the experience that will serve them best.

[efixler]

My daughter took a gap year and worked as an au pair in France for a year in 2018-19.

I don't think there's one answer for everyone, but for her, I think it was a great opportunity to see the world, work, and experience some new things. I don't know how profound her thinking was while abroad, but I also don't know how profound the thinking of most college freshmen are. I do know that she hit the ground running at school when she got back.

Most colleges will defer for a year without a lot of drama, and this was the case for her. Even minus covid, I'm not sure what the value of rushing from high school through college is, at least for the student who doesn't feel particularly compelled to do so. With covid, if school is online, you can pretty well guarantee that most of the socialization and independent-living transformations that typically happen for a college freshman simply won't really be happening.

[batman1425]

This sounds a lot like the messaging I receive daily from the boy's school:) In reality, the schools are bumbling around unprepared just like the rest of us, just unwilling to admit it

I think "unwilling to admit it" is a bit harsh. We are doing everything we can within the boundaries of what we have to work with. I don't want to be teaching online any more than students want to learn that way - but it's the hand we've been dealt and we have to make the best of it. Is it going to be perfect? No way, not even close. Will learning still happen? Yep. Do all parties involved have to recalibrate expectations? Absolutely. Also keep in mind that the people making the policies on campuses are largely not the ones that are in the classrooms.

If a student says "no thanks, I'm going to wait", I support that. If they say - I'm going to do the best I can and make it work, I support that too. I'll give them the best I can either way.

[weisan]

Thank you batman pal.

[peanutgallery]

When in doubt, blame the admin

I think "unwilling to admit it" is a bit harsh. We are doing everything we can within the boundaries of what we have to work with. I don't want to be teaching online any more than students want to learn that way - but it's the hand we've been dealt and we have to make the best of it. Is it going to be perfect? No way, not even close. Will learning still happen? Yep. Do all parties involved have to recalibrate expectations? Absolutely. Also keep in mind that the people making the policies on campuses are largely not the ones that are in the classrooms.

If a student says "no thanks, I'm going to wait", I support that. If they say - I'm going to do the best I can and make it work, I support that too. I'll give them the best I can either way.

[verticaldoug]

I want to thank everyone for taking the time to respond.

She's 3rd year and already at the University in off-campus housing with room mates expecting 50/50 in-person/online classes.

The question was driven by how quickly Notre Dame and UNC have changed plans. If the University closed campus and went 100% online, we fortunately have insurance to get most of the tuition back if she withdraws.

However, if universities close because of the pandemic in the fall, many things will be impacted in unpredictable ways. We saw this in the spring when her friend who had a great internship lined up at Boeing for Spring/Summer went virtual. It was not the same experience and a real loss of opportunity.

It's really about discussing options with her because as Churchill said ' you never allow a crisis to go to waste'.

But to quote that underappreciated great American Philosopher Mike Tyson, ' Everyone has a plan until they are hit in the face'.

[oldpotatoe]

We get this, but the question is what to do that fills the GAP?

We keep coming back to the conclusion that you will get sick somewhere else so best to remain on campus, with friends, independent, and move forward.
Keep calm and soldier on so to speak.

What's her interests? What does SHE want to do?

Join the military..if 'military' isn't her bag, join the Coast Guard..:)

NO Rush to go to 'college'..my wife went back when she was 36..

[Tickdoc]

Two in school now, both at major (Seperate) universities. One a junior and one a freshman. Gap year was not an option for either as they want to get their college done now and enjoy the experience as much as they can.

My son is more at risk with Asthma, and lives in a frat house. I don't even want to know what goes on there, but I know he is learning and enjoying his time. He is leaps and bounds more grown-up and professional than he ever was under my tutelage. I trust he will make the right decisions and if that includes going to classes held in person and living in a house then so be it. He is an adult now and can make those choices for himself.

My daughter is going through "virtual rush" now to find a sorority house for herself. She lives in a a big old dorm with thousands of others and most of her classes will be virtual. She endured a sucky senior hs year and made the best of it, and it just continues on to her freshman year.

I think we are more mad as parents at paying full tuition for not full service and amenities. Under normal circumstances she would have access to 20 restaurants and a grocery store on campus and she is reduced to sack lunches at the moment. We expect a fee reduction there, but it is too early to tell. Class starts in earnest next Monday so we shall see how it all plays out.

I hope they get as good an education as they can under the circumstances. Their chance of contracting is high, and they both chose to go under less than ideal circumstances. Personally, I feel we need to continue on through this and I don't think you can mask your way to health and avoid the inevitable. If either chooses to stop or come home that would be fine with me as well.

We roll the dice everyday in many ways and this is one more example.

[buckfifty]

I would echo what most have said about doing core classes at a community college virtually. Much cheaper and easier than going to a university. Spend the university level tuition on courses concentrating on the major, those are more worthwhile

[marciero]

I would echo what most have said about doing core classes at a community college virtually. Much cheaper and easier than going to a university. Spend the university level tuition on courses concentrating on the major, those are more worthwhile

If you go that route note that many community colleges have articulation agreements with four-year institutions that grease the skids for transitioning/transferring. That way you know ahead of time what will count for program credit in various programs at the 4-year.

Also, regarding covid prep-as was mentioned, it's very localized, as is the situation in the general population, and depends on so many factors. You dont hear media reports about all the schools that are successfully opening.

[firingsquad]

For me personally, a gap year may have been the best thing for me. I came out of HS pretty burnt out, sick of school and with an overall lack of enthusiasm for continuing my education.

Joining the workforce full time and seeing what I was headed into gave me a better appreciation of why I was going to college. I firmly believe that getting that little bit of real world life experience motivated me to appreciate college and take it more seriously.

[rnhood]

Agree, I think a gap year makes good sense for many people, not just for the covid situation but it also allows one to mature a little more before tackling higher education and better focusing on career interests ahead. Otherwise, I'd say a community college is a very good compromise, for the reasons given.

[buckfifty]

If you go that route note that many community colleges have articulation agreements with four-year institutions that grease the skids for transitioning/transferring. That way you know ahead of time what will count for program credit in various programs at the 4-year.

Also, regarding covid prep-as was mentioned, it's very localized, as is the situation in the general population, and depends on so many factors. You dont hear media reports about all the schools that are successfully opening.

also check with the university to see how many credits are allowed to be transferred and what level. Community college is good to knock out those pre-req's

[William]

For me personally, a gap year may have been the best thing for me. I came out of HS pretty burnt out, sick of school and with an overall lack of enthusiasm for continuing my education.

Joining the workforce full time and seeing what I was headed into gave me a better appreciation of why I was going to college. I firmly believe that getting that little bit of real world life experience motivated me to appreciate college and take it more seriously.


I would agree, I took a five year gap between HS and college. My head was not in the right place coming out of HS. Going out into the real world to experience how the job world generally works for those with just a HS diploma was a real motivator to get my priorities straight. When I walked onto campus to start college I was motivated to focus and learn. My experience with a lot of the freshman and sophmores at the time indicated that many could have benefited from a similar experience.

Our daughter is starting her third year at a private college across the country. This summer their plans have been all over the board and many times changing from week to week. I get that it's a continually changing status with the covid cases fluctuating but it has been very frustrating to try and make plans. Two weeks ago they switched course and announced that they were going to start classes in person. With that info the students who were still planning on attending stated making arrangements to return. A couple of days ago they up and announce there will be no one on campus and it will be 100% on-line. Many students are stuck who signed leases off campus, many likely made flight plans and purchased tickets. Students who bought parking passes (the school was bombarding upper classman with emails to purchase them) are looking for refunds. And we have also found out from instructors our daughter is in contact with that they didn't even know about the decision to go back to an on-line structure until they read the announcement.

Our daughter has a number of friends either planning a gap year or have transfered out to schools closer to home. As mentioned previously in this thread, they figure why pay for private school tuition for on-line classes? Our daughter wants to be on campus. We aren't crazy about that but she is an adult and she takes precautions seriously. Her major is an accelerated one and she was to remain on campus for classes, labs, and internships the summers at the end of her junior and senior years. Now that could be up in the air as well.

I realize it's a tough situation and you try to be patient with the constant changing of the schools plans...but man the admin has been all over the board this summer with regards to live or on-line classes this fall.







W.

[RFC]

I haven't seen my youngest face-to-face since early March. He is a PhD student at U of A. He is worried that the university opening is going to blow up in a couple of weeks and is concerned about infecting me. We've started doing regular Zoom calls.

If I had a HS senior, I would strongly advise and help execute a gap year.

[Doug Fattic]

I'm not a Mormon but their 2 year recommended mission must make those members more mature and better prepared for their future. In a sense it is a 2 year gap for them.

A good well-rounded education can be more than just college/university classes. I took 5 years of college so I could get Michigan state high school teaching certification. I spent a year teaching English in Japan before starting my masters in education. That year in-between was a very valuable learning experience that allowed me to better know what kind of future education I needed. And I certainly had a much broader understanding of the world. And then after teaching high school for 4 years I went to England to learn how to build and paint bicycle frames. This combination training acquainted me with the value of learning to work with your hands. There is benefit in both hand and mind education.

If I had a college aged child (I don't, we have a daughter in her 30's that became a speech pathologist), I would encourage him/her to take some practical trade classes at a local community college for gap year experiences. Machine shop, welding, web design, whatever. They will find some friends there for socializing. Many of these classes help a person think logically because they have to plan out a procedure to do the work. And no matter their major in in college, those community college skills can be useful later in life.

[RFC]

My educational progression can be summed up by the joke that goes as follows: after undergrad, you think you know everything, after masters, you realize you know nothing. After a Ph.D., you realize your advisor knows nothing.

LOL!! I concur, particularly with the advisor part!

[72gmc]

OP, my kid came out of high school fairly smashed from a motivation standpoint. She attended a high school that had a high ratio of well-to-do kids crammed into AP courses by their parents (her little sister is attending a much better high school in our eyes, cue parental regret).

We've told our kids from a very early age that we are fully behind a gap year, and studying abroad, because neither my wife nor I were able to do those things, and we both know people who were shot out of the parental cannon into college and struggled or failed. My big kid took a gap year with a very simple (signed) contract with her mother and I that stipulated a simple requirement to do things that add to her independence--take a course, get a job. We left it to her to figure out what and how, and we navigated some troubles, but she fulfilled the bargain and started college in a much better place.

This is a long way of saying it might work to identify your goals as a parent and let your kid come up with the plan, or at least co-author it. It is, to me, desirable to have a plan that allows free time to just deal with the world as it is.

[rwsaunders]

2 of my 3 kids are in STEM programs (one undergrad and one graduate student) in college and if I had a kid entering now as a freshman and they were in a STEM program, I would encourage them to defer their college start for a year.

Coming from high school to college, you are now among your peers and the coursework and intensity are tough to address on your own...i.e. limited collaboration opportunities with classmates and essentially none from the teaching staff and advisors, with all classes being online.

By the time you are an upperclassmen, you've formed your inner circle of friends and you've made in through the meat grinder classes, which serve in some respect, in thinning the herd.

[unterhausen]

That's a good point about study groups. Virginia Tech mechanical engineering had a huge study room when I was there. That was one of the best parts of going there. I imagine it's something else now.

Again, it matters what the capabilities of the student are. My son taught himself serviceable Chinese (my definition of something impossible to teach yourself), so he would have done fine online only. OTOH, I have a hard time teaching myself anything without being in a class.

At Penn State, some classes are really difficult to get into. Such as freshman English, of all things. If someone can take that online and get credit, that's a great use for this year.