LBS or direct?

[Climb01742]

would you rather get a bike through a bike shop or direct from the builder?

if serotta (or seven or whomever) offered a direct option, would that be a plus or minus to you?

would it depend on your experience...a relative newbie vs this being you 5th or 10th bike purchase?

:beer: or :argue:

[Serotta PETE]

Yes, you guessed I was going to say that,,,but I know folks that have driven hours to be fitted by Mike and buy a bike from him.....The fit, service, and follow-up are second to none. It usually turns into a long term friendship..JUST ASK SPOKES.


Folks like KIRK, SACHS, and SPECTRUM work on a difffernt business model and I would think that folks who buy from them know what they want and who to build it...... IT is not better or worse just a different model.

They have a reputation that goes back many years and they backup their products with service and intgrity. They love the sport and the art of building.

That did not answer the question BUT in my case there is not a "single" answer.

[Climb01742]

pete, but what if there is no serotta (or whomever) dealer you know and trust? isn't it hard to trust a stranger? this isn't an idle question, rant or swipe. there is a f/f i'd pull the trigger on today if there was a direct option.

[swoop]

i think in many ways....the bike shop is to seven what the computer is to competitive cyclist. its just a portal. the more you know what you want from any custom builder.... the more you are going to get what you want. the guy at the shop helps stick a tape measure in your crotch. the rest is between you and seven once you make a deposit.
the phone interveiw and design approval process is extensive.


*i am not speaking for seven.. this is just opinion. using them as an example and because i have two of their bikes.

[Serotta PETE]

I do not see this as a rant or swipe.... :)

Of the builders that post here, I would have no hesitation about buying from them.

I am fortunate that I have a great "wrench" SPOKES, and Mike when I am in NJ.

In most places that I have lived I have been able to find a trust worthy shop for some of my needs. As to bikes they sell, I would have to trust them first. That it why reputation is everything to me.

The first "good" 10 speed I even bought was in 1972 (french bike) from Mike's father who was a true "sponsor" of the sport, state champion and a life long friend . He was also the 1st Serotta dealer.

Buying a frame or bike online from someone I do not know personally, by reputation, or from personal reference is not something I would be inclined to consider.

Enjoy the weekend. PETE


pete, but what if there is no serotta (or whomever) dealer you know and trust? isn't it hard to trust a stranger? this isn't an idle question, rant or swipe. there is a f/f i'd pull the trigger on today if there was a direct option.

[davids]

Bike shop, definitely. It's a value-adding proposition for me - I don't have the knowledge or skills to do it properly by myself. Of course, the corollary is that I know and trust the shop's skills and integrity.

This doesn't just apply to bikes, either. For example... When I replaced my 15-year old Time shoes back in '03, I bought a pair of Sidis off the web, at a good discount. I mean, I knew my shoe size - what else is there to know? After wedging myself into them for 4 years, I finally wised up and went to (one of) my trusted local shops. And now, I not only have shoes that fit properly, I've got orthotic inserts that work so well that I'm thinking I need to replace every set of shoes I own.

On the other hand, there are things I buy where there is no value added (tires & tubes, clothes...), and in those cases I'll buy direct.

[72gmc]

I'm doing both. My LBS is also the home of Davidson handbuilt bicycles. It is for just the reasons given in this thread that my short list for my first custom bike consisted of local builders.

Serotta was the odd builder out, primarily because I don't have the relationship with their local carriers that I have with my shop. A direct relationship probably would have made a difference--but truthfully, a resurrection of the CSi would have been required.

[Serpico]

they just ask for 3 measurements over the phone, few months later you get a frame in the mail :beer: the less people involved the better imo

nahbs is sweet, these guys can measure you at the show--few months/years later you get a frame in the mail. like a press junket, no? I think the nahbs is great for clients. see all that stuff once, together. chat for a bit and see if you like the framebuilders' ideas, look at their stuff... awesome. pegoretti and kirk this year--wow!

[93legendti]

I'd go thru a lbs I trust...which I am doing right now.

[Len J]

would you rather get a bike through a bike shop or direct from the builder?

if serotta (or seven or whomever) offered a direct option, would that be a plus or minus to you?

would it depend on your experience...a relative newbie vs this being you 5th or 10th bike purchase?

:beer: or :argue:

and there really is no easy answer. I know my fit, so frankly, There is not much an LBS adds to the process for me, except if they carry the line of bikes that i am interested in.....in which case, If I want the bike, and I'm OK with the cost I'll deal thru the LBS.

Your question & followup seems to imply that there is a bike you are interested in but you don't like the LBS you would have to deal with. If that's the case, find another LBS....get a recommendation from the board here and you can always do it via phone. I've done that.

Len

[Ahneida Ride]

I do not see this as a rant or swipe.... :)


The first "good" 10 speed I even bought was in 1972 (french bike) from Mike's father who was a true "sponsor" of the sport, state champion and a life long friend . He was also the 1st Serotta dealer.

PETE

I too purchased my first 10 speed from Mike's father at Cyclesport.
A Raleigh competition back in ...... well way back ....

I had some problems with the Zeus RD and Mike's father installed a
Campy Record gratis. How bout that !!!!!!

I say ... Support your LBS if it is a decent shop.
Cyclesport is a decent shop .....
I've heard good things about Cyclesport ..... ;)

[terry b]

Direct, 110%.

At one time or another I've ruled out Serotta, Indy Fab and Seven because I could not go direct due to a) no dealer within 500 miles of me or b) my intractable hate for the local shop to the point that I refuse to give them any more of my money. The former is part of the price I pay for living out here on the boundary of the US. The latter is the reason both of my Moots were bought from a guy at an LBS in PA.

It's actually an interesting conversation to have with a custom provider when they refuse a sale because they have a local dealer in their network. Indy Fab did this with me, they would go direct but only if the local guy acknowledged it and gave his okay. By the same token, it's too bad that custom companies like these three do not realize that their dealer network can work against them if the local shops are not capable or customer oriented.

[1centaur]

This actually ties in with the Serotta website thread.

For my Parlee, I went with my LBS because the owner knows Bob Parlee and the Parlee website was not a font of information nor indicated that painted frames were a specialty. Their building was also not (despite the new Pez review's quaint description) exactly welcoming. As it turned out, there were issues about pricing the non-standard fork and the paint and having that LBS relationship made a difference.

For my Crumptons I started with e-mail, had a brief call with Nick on #1 and have been going e-mail only ever since. He's easy to deal with, gets my focus on paint, is a stickler for details just like me - it's been great.

For my Moots I skipped the local option and went north and found a great LBS in the process - good owner who actually noticed they messed up the measurements on the blueprint and corrected them before I did, then measured the frame when it came in to be sure it was right.

I think my ultimate answer comes down to how many layers of information/pressure/interference you want or need between you and the product. If I can get something from the dealer, like pressure to move up the queue, I'll use that. If the dealer is just one more person with an opinion I'll try to skip that. Obviously as more of a newbie I needed more hand holding on fit. Now I'm fine buying from anybody directly if the available information supports that decision. Serotta's website may not be ideal but combined with the forum I would not hesitate to specify what I wanted and go direct if that was an option and I could communicate mostly through e-mail. With Seven, I'd be more hesitant because their website tries to suggest what bike is right for you rather than just give you information and their presentation is standoffish, IMO. There's a guy in Switzerland with a website, good forum feedback, who answers e-mails quickly, who sells Time frames much cheaper than in the US - I'd take a shot with him if the stars were aligned. There's a place in Germany that sells Merckx WAY cheaper than in the US, but I think I could gain time and knowledge going through obtuse that might be worth the price (haven't got him to bite on my PM to that effect yet).

Either way works, but direct (non-LBS or the maker depending on the frame) is preferable in my view if the lines of communication are easy enough.

[Ti Designs]

they just ask for 3 measurements over the phone, few months later you get a frame in the mail


I have wasted my whole life...

[chrisroph]

without question the builder.

[Fixed]

bro i stay out of the shops at all cost .imho
cheers

[SoCalSteve]

bro i stay out of the shops at all cost .imho
cheers

Besides being in the "over 5,000" club, I knew there was another reason why I liked you Fixed!

[Climb01742]

I have wasted my whole life...

ed, not your_whole_life. ;)

[obtuse]

This actually ties in with the Serotta website thread.

For my Parlee, I went with my LBS because the owner knows Bob Parlee and the Parlee website was not a font of information nor indicated that painted frames were a specialty. Their building was also not (despite the new Pez review's quaint description) exactly welcoming. As it turned out, there were issues about pricing the non-standard fork and the paint and having that LBS relationship made a difference.

For my Crumptons I started with e-mail, had a brief call with Nick on #1 and have been going e-mail only ever since. He's easy to deal with, gets my focus on paint, is a stickler for details just like me - it's been great.

For my Moots I skipped the local option and went north and found a great LBS in the process - good owner who actually noticed they messed up the measurements on the blueprint and corrected them before I did, then measured the frame when it came in to be sure it was right.

I think my ultimate answer comes down to how many layers of information/pressure/interference you want or need between you and the product. If I can get something from the dealer, like pressure to move up the queue, I'll use that. If the dealer is just one more person with an opinion I'll try to skip that. Obviously as more of a newbie I needed more hand holding on fit. Now I'm fine buying from anybody directly if the available information supports that decision. Serotta's website may not be ideal but combined with the forum I would not hesitate to specify what I wanted and go direct if that was an option and I could communicate mostly through e-mail. With Seven, I'd be more hesitant because their website tries to suggest what bike is right for you rather than just give you information and their presentation is standoffish, IMO. There's a guy in Switzerland with a website, good forum feedback, who answers e-mails quickly, who sells Time frames much cheaper than in the US - I'd take a shot with him if the stars were aligned. There's a place in Germany that sells Merckx WAY cheaper than in the US, but I think I could gain time and knowledge going through obtuse that might be worth the price (haven't got him to bite on my PM to that effect yet).

Either way works, but direct (non-LBS or the maker depending on the frame) is preferable in my view if the lines of communication are easy enough.

i can't even get you a jersey in a reasonable span of time; :) !

obtuse

[shinomaster]

After having worked in a bike shop, had a brother who worked in three, had friends who owned them, and having been a customer at several "pro" shops, I have decided the following. Most of the people who work in shops are morons, and I wouldn't trust them with anything important, especially if money, or custom geometry is involved. There are always one or two in every shop who you can trust but they may be hard to find. I think the ideal would be to go to a bike factory like Colnago, or Serotta, or a custom builder like Sacha, and have either the person who is going to make the bike fit you and figure out what you need, or some really skilled technicians in lab coats.

[atmo]

Most of the people who work in shops are mormons, and I wouldn't trust them with anything important, especially if money, or custom geometry is involved.
hey - no provo for you atmo...


There are always one or two in every shop who you can trust but they may be hard to find.
is there a height joke buried here atmo?

[shinomaster]

I'm tired, and what I wrote had poor grammar, spelling and was offesive and MP. I'm sorry I dissed the mormons. What is provo atmo? I'm sorry if I offended any midgets.

[atmo]

I'm tired, and what I wrote had poor grammar, spelling and was offesive and MP. I'm sorry I dissed the mormons. What is provo atmo? I'm sorry if I offended any midgets.
love means never having to say you're sorry atmo.
everyone knows that!

http://www.markdroberts.com/images/Love-Story-3.jpg

[SPOKE]

pete, but what if there is no serotta (or whomever) dealer you know and trust? isn't it hard to trust a stranger? this isn't an idle question, rant or swipe. there is a f/f i'd pull the trigger on today if there was a direct option.

Climb,
i think that you do need to have a large degree of trust in the builder (or company). the builders that participate on this forum are the "best of the best" as you well know. i also know that my experiences with Serotta, RS, TK and DK have been first class. i can and do recomend these fine folks to anyone interested in a custom bicycle.
the difficult part of the entire process is making sure that YOU can actually communicate to the builder what you want out of the bike and then how the builder actually "interupts" your desires. this is the part of the process that is the "BIG" unknown for most of us. there has to be a little "faith" thrown in on top of this.
what i've found is that the IDEAL qualities you desire in a bike change as you gain experience, change your fitness, rupture a disc in your back...... simply put these qualities can be a MOVING TARGET. once i realized this i changed my thinking and just began to appreciate the "differences" each of my bikes offer. i can honestly say that all of them are outstanding but each has a slightly different feel. i like it this way. i hope i never find the "perfect" bike. if i do then i'll have no need to continue adding to my collection :D

[shinomaster]

love means never having to say you're sorry atmo.
everyone knows that!

http://www.markdroberts.com/images/Love-Story-3.jpg

But, these guys are pissed.
http://www.minikissonline.com/Pictures.php

[manet]

...

isn't it hard to trust a stranger? ...

Bender would say that's what booze is 4

[vaxn8r]

Seems like if you want a Serotta you can deal with a shop by phone or e-mail as easy or easier than you could go directly to a builder who may be busy building bikes.

I know the lbs here sells to people from all over the nation. They know what they want, they have the guy order it, prep it and he either delivers it or has it sent out. As a side note, I've seen them catch weird blueprint errors which could have been a costly mistake for the builder or the customer.

There's plenty of good Serotta dealers who know what they are doing. For example, Oakley Cycles in Cincinnati or City Cycle in San Francisco, both could set somebody up, build up their rig and do it with precision because they're both top 10 Serotta dealers who take pride in their work.

[physasst]

and there really is no easy answer. I know my fit, so frankly, There is not much an LBS adds to the process for me, except if they carry the line of bikes that i am interested in.....in which case, If I want the bike, and I'm OK with the cost I'll deal thru the LBS.

Your question & followup seems to imply that there is a bike you are interested in but you don't like the LBS you would have to deal with. If that's the case, find another LBS....get a recommendation from the board here and you can always do it via phone. I've done that.

Len


I've bought 3 of my bikes online, and to be honest, will probably buy most of my bikes either used...I have a penchant for classic lugged steel, or custom. The only exception is for racing bikes, for example, I am thinking of buying a TT/Triathlon bike, and am looking at the Specialized Transition, as I don't want to spend a great deal of money on a rather limited application road bike. Well, my LBS has it, and will give me 10% off, so I would probably buy that from them....but otherwise...nah. I buy a lot of smaller stuff from them, tires, tubes, bar tape, computers, pedals....shoes....etc..etc...etc. You have to be comfortable wrenching on your own stuff and know your fit though, if you do..you can save a lot of money online....if you don't..then YES, you need your LBS.

[Steelhead]

Local.

[Jeff N.]

I think it has alot to do with how much experience you have as a serious cyclist. If you're at the entry level, then I think a bike shop is the way to go, so that they can hopefully get you steered in the right direction. But personally, I prefer dealing directly with the builder. I've had more than a few mishaps as a result of miscommunication between the shop and the manufacturer regarding what it was exactly that I wanted; something got lost in the translation, or whatever. Dealing directly with, say, Bill Holland has been great. I know exactly what I want and he fully understands what I'm asking for. I'm a maniac for detail and he knows it. It's more error-free, overall, in the custom build process. As an added plus, there may also be some $avings by eliminating the middle dude. Jeff N.

[Needs Help]

find another LBS....get a recommendation from the board here and you can always do it via phone. I've done that.
That violates Serotta law.

[vaxn8r]

That violates Serotta law.
How does calling a Serotta dealer violate a law?

[swoop]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088258/qoutes

[Steelhead]

Are we talking frame/fork purchase only here or all around? If you are looking into a frame built by a known builder and you like his work, trust his experience, etc...I say buy direct if that is the option. Some builders go through dealers like Serotta, et al and some do not. Some do a mix of both. When buying after the fact, such as shoes, shorts, jerseys, helmets, tubes, water bottles, parts, bar tape, etc... I say go to your favorite bike shop.

The local bike shop should be able to help you out whether a beginner or very experienced. And what a great diversion from a day at work, bad weather, etc... I have worked in a couple of shops and they need our support just like any other local business competing for revenue. My .02. :)