The $14.5k titanium aero bike from Oz

[Elefantino]

Because, well, because (https://cyclingtips.com/2020/08/the-titanium-bike-that-thinks-its-a-carbon-aero-bike-bossis-strada-ss/).
.
https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Bossi-Strada-SS-Aero-titanium-road-race-bike-2021-cyclingtips-James-Raison-1.jpg

[tuscanyswe]

interesting with new designs and implementation on different materials but the downside is it also produces nothing in the lust department for me, much like the bikes with similar design made of carbon.

[Bob Ross]

That's aero?!?!

[reuben]

That's aero?!?!

From the article: “We’re focusing on the ride quality, the character, the strength,” said Bossi. “Then comes the aerodynamics. It’s not the priority.”

[vincenz]

:no:

Metal needs round tubes. If I were to get an aero bike, it'd be plastic.

[54ny77]

wow. whoduh thunk they could get ti in that shape.

cool stuff to see it done regardless. looks like a sweet bike.

why is the half-sized rear triangle happening all over the place these days? is it a better design (whatever that means), or just a trend? didn't gt's triple triangle of yore sorta do the same thing?

[mktng]

CAAD13 Ti .
Wonder how it will do. How's the $10k + bike market doing these days?

[gone]

Article says frame, fork, seat mast and headset is $5499 AUD which is $3913 US at current exchange rates.

Not pocket change but not crazy either for what's on offer. Firefly ti is $4400, Moots, Bingham, others are similar.

[unterhausen]

why is the half-sized rear triangle happening all over the place these days? is it a better design (whatever that means), or just a trend?
I never liked it. I saw a picture of a recent Rob English bike that had the seat stays intersect the seat tube at the top tube, contrary to his earlier practice.

[tuscanyswe]

Article says frame, fork, seat mast and headset is $5499 AUD which is $3913 US at current exchange rates.

Not pocket change but not crazy either for what's on offer. Firefly ti is $4400, Moots, Bingham, others are similar.

Yes abit more resonable idd.

[dan_hudson]

Quoted price is in Aus $$$. After currency conversion, very competitive at the upper end of market where they seem to be aiming (frame = $4k US).

Is visually interesting but would be curious to learn more from a tech-savvy person on their approach to fabrication. Ti castings? Welds apparently away from the traditional tube junctions? Last but not least, how the fab is actually happening (Cyclingtips mentions Bossi does design but outsources fab)?

Kinda like Stelbel in a way. Definitely scratches a different kind of itch but doesn't have the documented technical chops or experience of Moots, Baum, Bixxis. That doesn't mean Bossi or Stelbel are bad of course.

[54ny77]

interesting point. english was doing that half-triangle design years ago.

I never liked it. I saw a picture of a recent Rob English bike that had the seat stays intersect the seat tube at the top tube, contrary to his earlier practice.

[pbarry]

Manufacturing is outsourced.

[m_sasso]

Test

[voir dire]

High-priced at $4000 for a frameset not fabricated in-house, with no pedigree but with some fluffy buzz in the right places, it all seems like Ritte etc again. These micro-brew things keep popping up, but for steel or titanium especially I would rather buy from and support the person(s) actually making the thing.

"Bossi is quite open that this bike hasn’t seen a second of testing in the wind tunnel and that the bike has no supporting aero data. Honesty is quite refreshing. 'We’re focusing on the ride quality, the character, the strength,' said Bossi." Who doesn't say that? Those are pretty much the first focus of any frame-builder worth the name.

This isn't even that attractive a frame at that, pretty run of the mill. The dropped seatstay does seem flavor of the month but like someone wrote already GT (and English, etc, but GT more beautiful and uniquely by going to the tt) did it many years ago.

[edsteck]

Really nice looking bike.

[kppolich]

same general shape as the tarmac, emonda, and new cervelo.

[pbarry]

FWIW, Hetchins is the earliest dropped seat stay/triple triangle I can think of. [Image from Bike Recyclery]

[Hellgate]

I like it! It's a cool, clone bike.

It's interesting how they use carbon dimensions on Ti bike. I'm curious what the ride is like.

I'm thinking it's 5 watts better than my traditional Ti bikes.

[Hellgate]

FWIW, Hetchins is the earliest dropped seat stay/triple triangle I can think of. [Image from Bike Recyclery]Now I know we're Gary Turner got the triple triangle idea from.

[dazoo]

Having done way too much research on titanium frames for my next gravel bike build, I instantly recognized this frame - it's made by Hanglun in China (who I believe also make the Airborne, Van Nicholas, and presumably J Guillem frames).

They call it their R9: https://www.facebook.com/hangluntitaniumbicycle/posts/574854830094798

I recall seeing someone had asked about direct pricing and it was $1118 USD, making Bossi's $5500 AUD (~$3850 USD) frameset price quite the markup...

[54ny77]

Talk about I spy outta my left eye....

Amazing sleuthing!

That polished ti looks awesome.

Edit: on their website it looks like they manufacture custom for Sarto.

Having done way too much research on titanium frames for my next gravel bike build, I instantly recognized this frame - it's made by Hanglun in China (who I believe also make the Airborne, Van Nicholas, and presumably J Guillem frames).

They call it their R9: https://www.facebook.com/hangluntitaniumbicycle/posts/574854830094798

I recall seeing someone had asked about direct pricing and it was $1118 USD, making Bossi's $5500 AUD (~$3850 USD) frameset price quite the markup...

[thirdgenbird]

I knew Hanglun had titanium forks, but I didn’t realize they were going to offer a titanium fork for their “aero” bike.

I want to try it.

[Velocipede]

Having done way too much research on titanium frames for my next gravel bike build, I instantly recognized this frame - it's made by Hanglun in China (who I believe also make the Airborne, Van Nicholas, and presumably J Guillem frames).

They call it their R9: https://www.facebook.com/hangluntitaniumbicycle/posts/574854830094798

I recall seeing someone had asked about direct pricing and it was $1118 USD, making Bossi's $5500 AUD (~$3850 USD) frameset price quite the markup...

If they are indeed making it for Bossi, they are using some different tubing, dropouts and shaping. The Bossi, if I were buying it I'd be disappointed by the BB welds.

[earlfoss]

No way it's the same. Look at the fork/head tube situation, different.

[voir dire]

No way it's the same. Look at the fork/head tube situation, different.

It sure doesn't look like the same frame, in terms of tube shapes, ht, fork, a lot of the details..

The Bossi from their site:
https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Bossi-Strada-SS-Aero-titanium-road-race-bike-2021-cyclingtips-James-Raison-8.jpg

The Hanglun from their site:
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/99423927_574853076761640_6104144384503054336_o.jpg ?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=6iJB7U5EPYoAX80gjg1&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=86e29f23c32d4fe0e84b56e6006413a1&oe=5F54A0A6

[Wookski]

It sure doesn't look like the same frame, in terms of tube shapes, ht, fork, a lot of the details..


Correct- it’s a totally different bike however Bossi probably outsource everything apart from paint design to the Far East.

[NoMoreParagon]

Quoted price is in Aus $$$. After currency conversion, very competitive at the upper end of market where they seem to be aiming (frame = $4k US).

Is visually interesting but would be curious to learn more from a tech-savvy person on their approach to fabrication. Ti castings? Welds apparently away from the traditional tube junctions? Last but not least, how the fab is actually happening (Cyclingtips mentions Bossi does design but outsources fab)?

Kinda like Stelbel in a way. Definitely scratches a different kind of itch but doesn't have the documented technical chops or experience of Moots, Baum, Bixxis. That doesn't mean Bossi or Stelbel are bad of course.


Good point.
J Guillem, Bossi, Curve, Bearclaw outsource all to Far East. But I give them credit for being innovative and pushing the design envelope with creative shapes (Bossi) or tire clearance (Bearclaw).
You can see the common matrix in all of them by the gross welds, curved stays and same polish.
And although the frames are v good there are compromises from the lack of internal routing (bearclaw and curve) to limited tire clearance (Bossi Grit) to the infamous pressfit (J Guillem).

Stelbel outsources the production mainly to one pretty established Italian manufacturer with all the pros and cons associated with it. I had one frame from them and in the process of potentially getting a second. As I said sometime I wish I dealt with the manufacturer directly myself but on the other they are not just outsourcing entirely but they have a very strong input in the design, tube shape and proprietary parts (chainstays, brake mounts, dropouts etc). And because of their input I feel that Italian steel and titanium bikes have again caught up with modernity (T47, interval routing, tapered headtubes etc).

[Clancy]

T-Lab is manipulating tube shapes as complex or more so then these guys, using North American Ti and with far more experience.

I will admit to bias as I own a T-Lab and it is by far the most exceptional bicycle I have ever ridden.

But I see nothing new here and am somewhat surprised at CT not mentioning T-Lab’s innovation in titanium tube shaping.

With all that said, I hope they have tremendous success. As far as I’m concerned, we can’t have too many bike companies nor can we have too many bikes.

[harzkristall]

Does not work for me. Looks like rendering/photoshopping gone wrong. Oups wrong material swatch... For me titanium frames are more or less manipulated (based on round shaped) tubes joined by beautiful welds. Takes away the classic and timeless aspect of the ’magic’ metal.

[Velocipede]

Does not work for me. Looks like rendering/photoshopping gone wrong. Oups wrong material swatch... For me titanium frames are more or less manipulated (based on round shaped) tubes joined by beautiful welds. Takes away the classic and timeless aspect of the ’magic’ metal.

See, I like the looks of it. I like the mix of part paint, part bare metal. I even like the colors and design. Looks cool IMO.

[robertbb]

T-Lab is manipulating tube shapes as complex or more so then these guys, using North American Ti and with far more experience.

I will admit to bias as I own a T-Lab and it is by far the most exceptional bicycle I have ever ridden.

But I see nothing new here and am somewhat surprised at CT not mentioning T-Lab’s innovation in titanium tube shaping.

With all that said, I hope they have tremendous success. As far as I’m concerned, we can’t have too many bike companies nor can we have too many bikes.

The one thing about T-Lab's roadie that doesn't appeal to me (which I accept is purely personal preference) is the braze-on front derailleur. I've simply stopped buying frames with this. For me, it must be clamp on as its the only way to ensure you can get the front derailleur low enough to support sub-compact cranks. Or at least having it long enough or low enough to give the owner the choice.

Also looks way cleaner in a 1x setup...

[wallymann]

I like it, but they need to beef up the chainstays quite a bit to balance visually with the massive DT. something like Dean's chainstays on the El Diente superlight

[Fixed]

What Wally said

Skinny legs
Looks top heavy

[Velocipede]

I like it, but they need to beef up the chainstays quite a bit to balance visually with the massive DT. something like Dean's chainstays on the El Diente superlight

They probably did the stay like that to soften up the backend a bit due to the very oversized frontend.

[Clancy]

The one thing about T-Lab's roadie that doesn't appeal to me (which I accept is purely personal preference) is the braze-on front derailleur. I've simply stopped buying frames with this. For me, it must be clamp on as its the only way to ensure you can get the front derailleur low enough to support sub-compact cranks. Or at least having it long enough or low enough to give the owner the choice.

Also looks way cleaner in a 1x setup...

Agree essentially but due to how T-Lab manipulates the shape of the downtube a clamp-on adapter will not work. A fame can be ordered w/o the adapter.

[NoMoreParagon]

Sorry but the Bossi frame and T Lab have nothing in common.
T Lab manipulates tubes in a very elegant and functional way.

But Bossi and whoever they sourced the frame from, has internal cable routing at the stem/HT area which is something only carbon frame manufacturers achieved.

I think I have to give credit to Bossi for pushing the envelope of what can be achieved with metal tubes.

[jb_11]

why is the half-sized rear triangle happening all over the place these days? is it a better design (whatever that means), or just a trend? didn't gt's triple triangle of yore sorta do the same thing?

Dropped stays check all the boxes on your marketing buzzword bingo sheet; AERO, vertical compliance, lateral stiffness, lighter

I actually like the look, myself.

[happycampyer]

Sorry but the Bossi frame and T Lab have nothing in common.
T Lab manipulates tubes in a very elegant and functional way.

But Bossi and whoever they sourced the frame from, has internal cable routing at the stem/HT area which is something only carbon frame manufacturers achieved.

I think I have to give credit to Bossi for pushing the envelope of what can be achieved with metal tubes.Fwiw, the new Enve bar/stem/fork + Chris King collaboration allows for fully internal cable routing. A couple of builders at the Enve Builder Roundup showed bikes with this setup:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7gSCbnT/0/c7dfac20/XL/i-7gSCbnT-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jwF2jC5/0/9fa665f0/XL/i-jwF2jC5-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cBxXP4h/0/fb681292/XL/i-cBxXP4h-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xrgTVF7/0/05ebda45/XL/i-xrgTVF7-XL.jpg

I think both T-Lab and Bossi (or whoever is doing the fabrication for Bossi) are doing interesting things in terms of tube manipulation. I would be interested in seeing data that show that the manipulation actually improves something (stiffer, lighter, more aero, etc.) and isn't purely cosmetic. Short of that, I would love to test ride one of their frames to see I could tell the difference between their product and a more traditional (i.e., round tube) one.

[NoMoreParagon]

Fwiw, the new Enve bar/stem/fork + Chris King collaboration allows for fully internal cable routing. A couple of builders at the Enve Builder Roundup showed bikes with this setup:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7gSCbnT/0/c7dfac20/XL/i-7gSCbnT-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jwF2jC5/0/9fa665f0/XL/i-jwF2jC5-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cBxXP4h/0/fb681292/XL/i-cBxXP4h-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xrgTVF7/0/05ebda45/XL/i-xrgTVF7-XL.jpg

I think both T-Lab and Bossi (or whoever is doing the fabrication for Bossi) are doing interesting things in terms of tube manipulation. I would be interested in seeing data that show that the manipulation actually improves something (stiffer, lighter, more aero, etc.) and isn't purely cosmetic. Short of that, I would love to test ride one of their frames to see I could tell the difference between their product and a more traditional (i.e., round tube) one.


WoW nice good point. I forgot about that. And looks pretty classy too

[dan_hudson]

Blast from the past... in case folks missed it, Cyclingtips just posted up a review of the Bossi (https://cyclingtips.com/2022/01/bossi-strada-ss-road-bike-review-aero-meets-titanium/) (by Dave Rome).

[avalonracing]

Very pretty but Litespeed has aerodynamically-shaped tubing on their US-built Ultimate and is offered as a nice Ultegra-equipped bike for $7000K

[avalonracing]

Beautiful bikes but dear God what a horrible background for photos.



https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7gSCbnT/0/c7dfac20/XL/i-7gSCbnT-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jwF2jC5/0/9fa665f0/XL/i-jwF2jC5-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cBxXP4h/0/fb681292/XL/i-cBxXP4h-XL.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-xrgTVF7/0/05ebda45/XL/i-xrgTVF7-XL.jpg

[fijichf]

Beautiful bikes but dear God what a horrible background for photos.

Yes…the backdrop looks like an old set from the TV show Hee Haw.

[fredd]

These are cool, but I'm missing the point.
If I was getting a bike which will be outdated in some years, I'd get plastic. As a forever material i think Ti is best done on a timeless bike. That means round-ish tubes and no cables through the headset. Also if I'm looking for this racy a bike, 415mm chainstays are a dealbreaker.

Kudos to them for doing something different though, and not just slapping a logo on an open mold frameset.

[Likes2ridefar]

When I saw the b in the small photo I assumed it was Bastion. Similar pricing, maybe even more!, from oz, and IMO a lot more interesting.

We’re I going Ti I’d strongly consider them.

[Coffee Rider]

Article says frame, fork, seat mast and headset is $5499 AUD which is $3913 US at current exchange rates.

Not pocket change but not crazy either for what's on offer. Firefly ti is $4400, Moots, Bingham, others are similar.

This makes all of those seem like a great value, which they are if you have one and it brings you joy. You can even save some money and get a DeSalvo.

[Clancy]

Article says frame, fork, seat mast and headset is $5499 AUD which is $3913 US at current exchange rates.

Not pocket change but not crazy either for what's on offer. Firefly ti is $4400, Moots, Bingham, others are similar.

In line with T-Lab which is $3,975.

I rode my T-Lab today and when done, looked at the totals for my bikes. I expected the T-Lab to be ahead but I was surprised at how many miles I’ve put on it. At first I wasn’t a fan of the tube shapes - for Ti I much prefer the timeless look of the round tubing traditionally used. I had an Eriksen once and always thought that was the pinnacle of both looks and ride qualities. The T-Lab’s ride exceeds that of all my other bikes, obviously the reason it has as many miles. Regularly I find myself riding further than planned when I go out on it. After going on 4 years, my impression with it has only solidified. And I’ve grown to really like the tube shaping although the bend in the seat tube does look odd. The only thing that surprises me about T-Lab is I seldom hear them mentioned, maybe more so in Canada, but not much here on PL.

With that said, as interesting as bikes are down under, I can’t imagine ordering one given the huge number of the world’s best here in North America. Just like if I lived in Australia, I’d feel the same. They have some of the most talented builders on the planet. As easy as it is for me to go full OCD, if I started to look at customs in Australia, I’d have to look at Italy, then Germany, ….that’s a rabbit hole that could lead me to insanity!

[jtferraro]

Not pocket change but not crazy either for what's on offer. Firefly ti is $4400, Moots, Bingham, others are similar.

FF is actually $4900 for road, $5200 for road+, AR & cyclocross

[avalonracing]

In line with T-Lab which is $3,975.

The only thing that surprises me about T-Lab is I seldom hear them mentioned, maybe more so in Canada, but not much here on PL.


I'm a big fan of Ti bikes and have had a number of them and even I didn't know about T-Lab until recently. I wish there was one around the area that I could ride as I have been rolling around the idea of a new Ti bike for a while.

[ERK55]

T-Lab bikes are interesting.
What rules them out for me are:
-Funky sideways bend in the seat tube
-BB86 bottom bracket
-Rather severe top tube slope
-Crude looking proprietary rear dropouts

[nmrt]

Interesting. I bought T-Lab precisely because of the funky bend in the ST hoping it would lead to some enhancement in ride quality. Does it? I am not sure. But I am happy to report that my T-Lab is a comfortable ride, yet, retaining great stiffness in the BB area.

But yes, I agree, I am not fond of the aesthetics of the rear dropouts. But they funtion well.

In in the end would I buy the T-Lab again? Absolutely!

T-Lab bikes are interesting.
What rules them out for me are:
-Funky sideways bend in the seat tube
-BB86 bottom bracket
-Rather severe top tube slope
-Crude looking proprietary rear dropouts

[jpritchet74]

Not impressed.

[Clancy]

Interesting. I bought T-Lab precisely because of the funky bend in the ST hoping it would lead to some enhancement in ride quality. Does it? I am not sure. But I am happy to report that my T-Lab is a comfortable ride, yet, retaining great stiffness in the BB area.

But yes, I agree, I am not fond of the aesthetics of the rear dropouts. But they funtion well.

In in the end would I buy the T-Lab again? Absolutely!

And I agree. When I bought mine, the fork it came with was the early version and limited max tires to 28mm. I’ve since replaced it with their upgraded version and the bike can easily fit 32mm tires. I’ve two sets of wheels I swap back and forth. With pedals and cages it’s a little over 17 lbs. I still look and lust occasionally after a new bike, but it’s fleeting, seriously. This bike completes me! :hello:

[ahsere]

So it "looks like" aero but they haven't tested it, ergo the unusual carbon-like shapes don't have a clear raison d'etre beyond trying to look different from other titanium frames... It looks nice enough but I don't know about being an early adapter of a completely unproven technology while still paying a premium for the privilege. But I am sure it will attract some buyers who are itching for something "different." In the end, they have accomplished the carbon look on a titanium frame, good for them.