S-Works SL7 Tarmac

[adub]

Are there people that pay retail for these S-Works bikes?

$13K for the Sagan edition
$12K for the "regular" S-Works

Geezus!

[rnhood]

Some people pay enormous amounts for cars, that lose half their value within a month, so people probably pay enormous amounts for bikes too. The good news is that, with both cars and bikes the law of diminishing returns sets in pretty early. A $3 or 4K bike is 95% of a $12K bike, minus the fashion.

[9tubes]

At that price just go custom.

[Elefantino]

We've already had two orders.

[nooneline]

At that price just go custom.

counterpoint - if one wants to spend that much and get something that is both light and aero, one wants something with thorough reserach and design behind it, on a platform that's seen iterative development for years to refine and improve various little elements throughout it.

[biker72]

I'm in the shop only a couple of days a week but I noticed this morning there are 2 SL7's that have been sold and are in the pickup rack.

[Cbh]

I'm in the shop only a couple of days a week but I noticed this morning there are 2 SL7's that have been sold and are in the pickup rack.

RBM Richardson?

[biker72]

RBM Richardson?

Yes it is....:)
I can do a lot of paperwork from home.

[Caballero]

well, I came across the first 2021 SL7 to bite the dust at 5:30am. Rider was supposedly on the maiden voyage when during a downhill section braked and heard an all mighty snap followed by a series of other disturbing sounds.

guessed the rear disc caliper hadnt been torqued down properly and had pulled out of the mount under hard braking with the rear caliper and part of the chain stay in the spokes, lightweight disc rear wheel spokes snapped, super record eps rear mech caught up.

the owner was surprisingly calm about it, though Id hate to be the mechanic that put it together !

[cgates66]

well, I came across the first 2021 SL7 to bite the dust at 5:30am. Rider was supposedly on the maiden voyage when during a downhill section braked and heard an all mighty snap followed by a series of other disturbing sounds.

guessed the rear disc caliper hadnt been torqued down properly and had pulled out of the mount under hard braking with the rear caliper and part of the chain stay in the spokes, lightweight disc rear wheel spokes snapped, super record eps rear mech caught up.

the owner was surprisingly calm about it, though Id hate to be the mechanic that put it together !

That is rather shocking. The failure mode you describe, though, doesn't make sense: the rotor is rotating in a way that would force the caliper down under braking, not lift it up. Further, the caliper is "clamped" onto the rotor under braking by pads, meaning that it literally can't twist (e.g., if only one bolt came off) or slide to one side or the other. And on Shimano, the bolts themselves are clipped after install, so even if loose, the worst thing that can happen is that the caliper rattles a bit - but only when the brakes are "off". The design is pretty robust. I'd be surprised if Campy was much a much different design.

For this to have happened as described:
1) both bolts would have to come off of the caliper somehow, meaning both under-torqued and unclipped;
2) while the brake pads were clamped hard on the rear disc, the caliper would have had to miraculously slide forward off of the disc, and then twist into the wheel;
3) hydraulic brake hoses aren't noodles, so the slide forward part would take some force, and it would need to come forward ~1.5" or more, which is a lot.

This is a very strange accident and I'd love to see pictures, and learn what the actual failure mode was (as a disc brake user!).

I wonder if there wasn't a frame defect or damage and something broke in the vicinity of the caliper. That makes a lot more sense than the caliper coming loose under braking, which I don't think (as described above) can physically happen.

[KJMUNC]

well, I came across the first 2021 SL7 to bite the dust at 5:30am.

as my kids say "ooofity oof oof oof....."

dang that sucks.

to the OP's question: I'd love to know the distribution of sales that occur at full retail vs. pro/bro-deal pricing.

[jemoryl]

The increasing amount of conspicuous consumption in cycling is getting me down. Shouldn't be like this.

[reuben]

Steel is STILL real. And rim brakes.

[Elefantino]

Steel is STILL real. And rim brakes.
How do you ride that stuff? You probably have 23c tires, too! :D

[AngryScientist]

i wonder if the insurance companies will get wise to the trend of bikes costing significant amounts of money?

i mean - my BRAND NEW DUCATI cost significantly less than this bicycle and i was damn sure i wanted my insurance coverage in place before i drove it away from the dealership.

[reuben]

How do you ride that stuff? You probably have 23c tires, too! :D

Ha! "Back in the day" I rode 20 and 23 on my Bianchi on a daily basis. 19 for triathlons. Now my Specialized aluminum bike has 30! Seems like 25 is more or less the norm now for road.

I've crashed hard enough to break both arms and bend the frame at the dropout, but the bike didn't shatter. It was an easy repair for a local builder.

But I'm really lusting for a Cinelli Supercorsa...

[KJMUNC]

i wonder if the insurance companies will get wise to the trend of bikes costing significant amounts of money?

I'm not an insurance guy, but my guess is that most policies probably have fine print about the replacement value of bicycles....unless you have a specific policy on them, which at that price, starts to feel much more like a motorcycle/car policy.

[AngryScientist]

I'm not an insurance guy, but my guess is that most policies probably have fine print about the replacement value of bicycles....unless you have a specific policy on them, which at that price, starts to feel much more like a motorcycle/car policy.

yea exactly, i was wondering if insurance companies might start to offer individual policies for bicycle coverage.

[Pegoready]

At that price just go custom.

Yes and no.

Yes you can get a nice custom bike for ~$12k-13k from the top makers in exotic materials, and considerably less in steel. It will look and fit how you want and you will probably be able to get all the best parts, though custom bikes hit $15-17 easily when you get into paint, powermeters, carbon wheels, etc.

But that $12-13k custom isn't buying you the lightest, most aero, most integrated looking bike because little custom makers just don't have the R&D abilities to do that stuff for one-off product.

For some people dropping $12k and getting a known item that looks and performs like a McLaren, that can be rolled out of the shop that day is worth something.

I'm biased and prefer custom bikes, and I am stoked stock bikes are hitting stratospheric price points. It makes my discussions with pals a lot easier when I tell them to go custom.

[reuben]

yea exactly, i was wondering if insurance companies might start to offer individual policies for bicycle coverage.

Depending the homeowner/renter policy, contents are covered for replacement value, but for expensive stuff like fancy bikes, stereo, photography, art, etc., it's a good idea to have pics or video as proof of make/model.

Then you start to get into the differences between "replacement value", "market value", etc.

[KJMUNC]

Depending the homeowner/renter policy, contents are covered for replacement value, but for expensive stuff like fancy bikes, stereo, photography, art, etc., it's a good idea to have pics or video as proof of make/model.

Then you start to get into the differences between "replacement value", "market value", etc.

Yeah, we went through this with a burglary 5-6yrs ago. Bikes weren't affected but I asked the question and didn't like the answer that they all would've fallen under "market value" had I needed to make a claim against them. We lost a lot of stuff that had heaps of sentimental value but little/no market value whatsoever.

[jemoryl]

At that price just go custom.

Or in my case, buy a nice bike and have $10,000 left over for wine, travel, etc.

[hobbanero]

i wonder if the insurance companies will get wise to the trend of bikes costing significant amounts of money?

i mean - my BRAND NEW DUCATI cost significantly less than this bicycle and i was damn sure i wanted my insurance coverage in place before i drove it away from the dealership.

I asked a few years ago about adding a specific insurance "rider" to my homeowner's policy for my bikes at full value. The cost was very high--something like 15% of the bike value per year. Problem is that bikes get crashed and they get stolen when they are outside the house, so the loss rate is high, and therefore policy cost.

[Fixed]

My 31 year old bottecchia is faster on the road than my 6000 Dollar specialized Crux but not as stable it is an old race bike .speed is not everything on a bike for me
Cheers

[hobbanero]

$12k for a bike is a lot. But I don't buy into the "handmade custom" comparisons (I know, blasphemy in the Church of Paceline). My Tarmac SL6 outperforms my Moots RSL in every respect except perhaps resistance to impact damage. It is lighter, stiffer, more aero, more comfortable, and costs about the same. In fact, the SL6 is even handmade....just in a much larger factory than the Moots. Granted, I don't have any special fit considerations.

Don't like $12k? Get the lower modulus frameset, which is still an amazing frame, for $3k and build it up with Ultegra/Force and one of the new less expensive carbon wheelsets (eg. Zipp 303S, Enve Foundation) for a bike that is 95% of the performance at 50% of the cost.

Spesh seems to price S-Works bikes these days at basically the full retail cost of all of the components. It is a halo product at a halo price. And probably a reaction to the fact that for many years, the number of bikes sold per year has not budged, so increasing prices was the easy way to increase revenue. Covid-19 has changed that, but it remains to be seen if our bike boom is temporary or long term.

[one60]

I saw a few 2021 SL7's today at a shop. I am far from being a Specialized fan but I will say they looked great (and I don't typically like sloping top tubes). Sure there is a LOT of hype about this frame but having recently had the opportunity to ride a much hyped Bianchi Specialissima, I admit I was wondering what it might ride like.

Also, as some others have noted, there are less expensive versions than the $12K version...those Ultegra (or similar spec) models seem to be reasonably competitive with Trek and other brands.

[R3awak3n]

i wonder if the insurance companies will get wise to the trend of bikes costing significant amounts of money?

i mean - my BRAND NEW DUCATI cost significantly less than this bicycle and i was damn sure i wanted my insurance coverage in place before i drove it away from the dealership.

blows my mind that you can get a freaking Ducati, now just some moto but a DUCATI for less than a bike....


as far as these selling, I am not surprised. The new cool thing on the block.... it will go like this, either someone has a ton of money and just buys one with no care in the world... or .... one of those guys that has only 1 bike and been saving to upgrade.

13k is a ton for a bike but there are people here with 10 $3000 bikes so we can do the math.


Not to mention that you don't have the get the S works with sram red axs.... however I am sure the peasant tarmac is still a heap of money

[GregL]

Not to mention that you don't have the get the S works with sram red axs.... however I am sure the peasant tarmac is still a heap of moneyThe MSRP for the cheapest SL7 with Ultegra (albeit di2...) is $5K. An SL6 with mechanical Ultegra is $3.5K. A closeout of the current SL6 with Ultegra Di2 is $3.8K. I'll happily stick with my CAAD10 (frame purchased through the Paceline classifieds) with DA9000 and handbuilt wheels for about $2K...

Greg

[pdmtong]

6.0 frame/fork
3.0 grouppo
2.5 wheels
0.75 post/saddle/stem/bar

so there's your 12. it's no longer shocking to me. people buying F12, C64, Responsorium, and any number of bling handmade metal are into the f/f for 6 after customization and paint.

it is more shocking to me that a top end mtb can get to $10k

[laupsi]

I asked a few years ago about adding a specific insurance "rider" to my homeowner's policy for my bikes at full value. The cost was very high--something like 15% of the bike value per year. Problem is that bikes get crashed and they get stolen when they are outside the house, so the loss rate is high, and therefore policy cost.

Perhaps I just have good insurance; my 2 year old Wilier was stolen while on my car, during a traffic stop. Yes, I know... Regardless, homeowner policy covered full retail replacement value. Received the check in less than 3 weeks. No separate rider, etc...

[nortx-Dave]

I was shocked at prices of production bikes...and custom too. That is until I got the go ahead to commission a Chris Bishop custom.

But still, with a custom fillet-lugged steel frame, upgraded paint and steel custom fork, Campy SR mech 12 speed group, direct mount eebrakes, Deda cockpit, Bora WTO 45s, it's still <12K.

[fogrider]

Here's the thing, I've got a buddy that is just faster than me...I mean he can climb faster, he can descend faster, he can pull for hours...on a good day, I can out sprint him. Put me on the SL7 and he will still climb faster, descend faster, and pull harder than me. I'm sure there will be lots of guys and gals that have the cash, love the sport and why not? of course, that was the case when Cannondale came out with the System Six...

[pdmtong]

I was shocked at prices of production bikes...and custom too. That is until I got the go ahead to commission a Chris Bishop custom.

But still, with a custom fillet-lugged steel frame, upgraded paint and steel custom fork, Campy SR mech 12 speed group, direct mount eebrakes, Deda cockpit, Bora WTO 45s, it's still <12K.


The Bishop f/f that I was considering ordering was close to $7k. It’s a slippery alope

If your SR mech 12 was eps 12 disc yea my bishop would be 12+

[ToonaBP]

After reading about many bike thefts in the D.C. area, with some stolen from garages, i called my insurance company to check on my coverage. Basically, they said it covers up to $2500 on bicycles. He asked if that was sufficient and I said it would cover one wheelset. To cover replacement values the cost would be $1400 per year. To lower the premium cost, I could suspend the coverage during winter months, when the risk is lower since they're in the basement.

[RedRider]

Here's my Paceline challenge...If you usually ride a 58cm, Colnago 54S, sized bike please call me to arrange a demo ride. Savile Road has a 2021 SWorks SL7 with DI2, Holland HG custom carbon with SR EPS disc, and a Kirk (Cento tubing) Record mech rim. Ride all three and review them here on the Paceline.
You can compare a top of the line "mass market" carbon to probably the best custom carbon frame. Then take the Kirk for a spin just because it's so special.
I'd love to hear your reviews... Steven
P.S. I used the word demo as in short, test ride. Not rental, loaner or gift :)

[shamsixnine]

I can tell you that absolutely yes. And you would be surprised at how many people do in fact buy these bikes. And most are long time cyclists with lots of experience, and decided that it is very much worth it. We may not want to admit it, but that fact is, these and the comparative products from TREK are some of the most thoroughly researched and tested bikes out there. Not to mention pretty good warranties for carbon bikes and carbon wheels.

[cinema]

i thought i saw a black sl7 frameset at msrp $3k on the spec site. if im correct that doesnt seem so expensive at all compared to other options. a set of handbuilts and ultegra would put you under 5k for a stock super bike. sure if you buy into their marketing BS and buy top of the line model maxd out with everything you’re putting money in the garbage disposal this is well known. but those builds are often purchased by people who have less sense than $$

[Mark McM]

i thought i saw a black sl7 frameset at msrp $3k on the spec site. if im correct that doesnt seem so expensive at all compared to other options. a set of handbuilts and ultegra would put you under 5k for a stock super bike. sure if you buy into their marketing BS and buy top of the line model maxd out with everything you’re putting money in the garbage disposal this is well known. but those builds are often purchased by people who have less sense than $$

The $3000 model is the Tarmac SL7 frame. This version is heavier (by a claimed 120 grams, 20% more) than the S-Works Tarmac SL7 frame, which has a price of $5000. In comparison, the costs of the 2021 Trek Emonda SL (heavier) vs. the Emonda SLR (lighter) is $1900 vs. $3700. (Like the Tarmac SL7, the Trek 2021 Emonda is their lightweight road frame which has been re-designed for improved aerodynamics.)

[Mr B]

A friend has a 'regular' $3k SL7 frameset on order, and will transfer the Di2 group and Rovals over from his S-Works SL6 frameset that he just sold for ~$2500, so technically* his new SL7 is just gonna cost him 500 bucks plus a new stem & handlebar...

*this is true Man Maths at work, friends

[vincenz]

The $3000 model is the Tarmac SL7 frame. This version is heavier (by a claimed 120 grams, 20% more) than the S-Works Tarmac SL7 frame, which has a price of $5000. In comparison, the costs of the 2021 Trek Emonda SL (heavier) vs. the Emonda SLR (lighter) is $1900 vs. $3700. (Like the Tarmac SL7, the Trek 2021 Emonda is their lightweight road frame which has been re-designed for improved aerodynamics.)


The new lower end Emonda SL is a pig though. The SLR is 700g and the SL is like 1150g.

Compare to Tarmac SL7 Sworks, 800g vs 920g for regular.

If going for absolute weight, I’d get the Emonda SLR. If going for value, probably still get the Trek, as long as you can stomach their garish oversized logo.

[pdmtong]

More musings:

The one area I would still need to get my head around is the proprietary stem and bar and if that will work for me.

It seems each year there’s something on these super bikes that is bike specific. I get that it’s a system concept

For instance the year that trek did a Chainstay behind the BB brake mount. Nope - deal killer.

So basically super bikes have creeped up from 8 to 10 now 12.

I would think any of the bikes in the AC emails I get are 12

[cinema]

The $3000 model is the Tarmac SL7 frame. This version is heavier (by a claimed 120 grams, 20% more) than the S-Works Tarmac SL7 frame, which has a price of $5000. In comparison, the costs of the 2021 Trek Emonda SL (heavier) vs. the Emonda SLR (lighter) is $1900 vs. $3700. (Like the Tarmac SL7, the Trek 2021 Emonda is their lightweight road frame which has been re-designed for improved aerodynamics.)

thanks. didn't know that. on the internets i've seen these serial killers who gleefully chop up expensive bikes and show the disadvantages of ultralight frames anyway. 100g heavier one seems like the one to get from my perspective

[vincenz]

More musings:

The one area I would still need to get my head around is the proprietary stem and bar and if that will work for me.

It seems each year there’s something on these super bikes that is bike specific. I get that it’s a system concept

For instance the year that trek did a Chainstay behind the BB brake mount. Nope - deal killer.

So basically super bikes have creeped up from 8 to 10 now 12.

I would think any of the bikes in the AC emails I get are 12

Musings on top of musings.

I think the integration concept is fine. However, it does get in the way for a sub-set of riders, such as myself who run smaller bikes. I need classic bend drop bars to get low enough on size 50-52cm bikes as it is and with these new-fangled integrated stems and bars, I would not be able to get low enough for the fit I want in the size I want. These bikes smaller than 50cm are compromised in handling, top tube length, and aesthetics.

For me, not a huge deal as I care little about these bikes anyway, but it's a consideration for others.

[Mr B]

A friend pointed out that mechanical shifting might not play nicely with the SL7 inside the fully-integrated front end - any truth to that?
Every SL7 model offered by Specialized is either eTap or Di2, and the copy mentions 'clean routing', but is that for actual shift cables or just wires?

[54ny77]

I believe they're referring to the sensation one will feel in their nether regions after writing the check.

A friend pointed out that mechanical shifting might not play nicely with the SL7 inside the fully-integrated front end - any truth to that?
Every SL7 model offered by Specialized is either eTap or Di2, and the copy mentions 'clean routing', but is that for actual shift cables or just wires?

[junkfood]

A friend pointed out that mechanical shifting might not play nicely with the SL7 inside the fully-integrated front end - any truth to that?
Every SL7 model offered by Specialized is either eTap or Di2, and the copy mentions 'clean routing', but is that for actual shift cables or just wires?

They are suitable for electronic or mechanical shifting groups. Takes a bit of extra time but you have to route the hoses internally already.

Jake

[yinzerniner]

A friend pointed out that mechanical shifting might not play nicely with the SL7 inside the fully-integrated front end - any truth to that?
Every SL7 model offered by Specialized is either eTap or Di2, and the copy mentions 'clean routing', but is that for actual shift cables or just wires?

Think it depends on how the cables and liners handle the tighter turns. Some of the newer super-slick cables work just fine, and even adding a bit of cable lube could help a bit more.

SL7 frameset is supposed to be fully compatible with mech shifting and their hidden cable routing :
We’ve improved the routing for any configuration — mechanical shifting, traditional stems, round bars, etc. — all while keeping its aerodynamic attributes
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/tarmac-sl7-expert---ultegra-di2/p/175295?&searchText=94920-3144

[JonB]

A friend has a 'regular' $3k SL7 frameset on order, and will transfer the Di2 group and Rovals over from his S-Works SL6 frameset that he just sold for ~$2500, so technically* his new SL7 is just gonna cost him 500 bucks plus a new stem & handlebar...

*this is true Man Maths at work, friends

gonna cost him a bit more. He'll also need a new bottom bracket and new crankset as the S-Works SL6 has a Press-fit BB and the new one is threaded. On top of that, if he had a powermeter on the SL6, that's a big item to give up as Specialized has not yet released a new powermeter for a threaded BB crankset. (there's always aftermarket stuff).

On the plus side, the SL7 frameset comes with a stem so he won't need to purchase one as long as the length is correct for his fit.

[nmrt]

okay guys, maybe someone might educate me better on the SL7.

why on earth is there even a thread on it? i mean, what makes it so special (apart from spesh marketing spiel) that SL7 deserves a thread and not it's competitors like the giant, trek, cannondale?

[Mark McM]

Musings on top of musings.

I think the integration concept is fine. However, it does get in the way for a sub-set of riders, such as myself who run smaller bikes. I need classic bend drop bars to get low enough on size 50-52cm bikes as it is and with these new-fangled integrated stems and bars, I would not be able to get low enough for the fit I want in the size I want. These bikes smaller than 50cm are compromised in handling, top tube length, and aesthetics.

For me, not a huge deal as I care little about these bikes anyway, but it's a consideration for others.

I've looked at a few integrated bars/stems, most of them won't really work for me. There are multiple variables with bars/stems, including stem length, stem angle, and bar width. It's not practical to produce all possible combinations, so they just produce the combinations they think will be most popular. Unfortunately for me, I use a long stem with narrow handlebars - a combination which is usually not made in integrated bars/stems. If I were to use the version with a short stem and narrow handlebars, I'd be crunched up and lose power. If I used the version with a long stem and wide handlebars, I'd increase drag. Any gains that might be had with integrated bars/stem are lost for me, and I might even end up losing more than when using non-integrated components.

And then there's the secondary matter for proprietary bars/stems that are specific to a particular bike: If some years down the road, a rider wanted to change their fit (or if the bike is sold to a different rider who needed a different fit), would new proprietary components even be available anymore?

[mcteague]

okay guys, maybe someone might educate me better on the SL7.

why on earth is there even a thread on it? i mean, what makes it so special (apart from spesh marketing spiel) that SL7 deserves a thread and not it's competitors like the giant, trek, cannondale?

I'm a bit surprised at all the posts as well. Paceline seems to be mostly a custom bike group. I swear, if I had a dollar for every S-Works bike I see out on the road...same for Trek. I'm sure they area really nice bikes but maybe I am too much of a snob to every consider either brand.

Tim

[Mr B]

okay guys, maybe someone might educate me better on the SL7.

why on earth is there even a thread on it? i mean, what makes it so special (apart from spesh marketing spiel) that SL7 deserves a thread and not it's competitors like the giant, trek, cannondale?

Search first, ask later.

Thread on the launch of the SuperSix Evo (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=239320&highlight=supersix)

Thread on the launch of the CAAD13 (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=239989&highlight=supersix)

I'm sure you could also dig up threads on the most recent Trek and Giant bikes if you took a little time.

[tuxbailey]

okay guys, maybe someone might educate me better on the SL7.

why on earth is there even a thread on it? i mean, what makes it so special (apart from spesh marketing spiel) that SL7 deserves a thread and not it's competitors like the giant, trek, cannondale?


Well, this is a forum to discuss bikes and there are a lot of knowledgeable folks here. And this is a new top of the line race bike so obviously there are interests...

[nooneline]

okay guys, maybe someone might educate me better on the SL7.

why on earth is there even a thread on it? i mean, what makes it so special (apart from spesh marketing spiel) that SL7 deserves a thread and not it's competitors like the giant, trek, cannondale?

dang, there's a thread because somebody started a thread, it's not like there's a lengthy review and approval process. If you want to find out why somebody started a thread, you can read the original post. In this case it was about the price, which is high.

If you're wondering why other people care, well... Specialized is a major manufacturer, so what they do influences what other companies do. They also put a ton of R&D into their bikes and make very good ones - so if they do something different than they've done before (which they are doing, in this case, merging two different products), then people find it interesting. Personally, I find it intriguing that a decade or so into the aero bike boom, the aera of aerodynamics has gotten refined - through testing, the companies have a better idea of what matters and what doesn't. Aero bikes don't look like they used to and it's looking like a few companies have arrived at a point where they can make an aero bike that's as light as their light bikes, or make their light bike as aero as their aero bike. Trek's new Emonda is like this, too, and I'm sure we're going to see other companies follow suit.

If that's not interesting to you, that's fine. It's a big forum, and I'm sure there are other threads that might make you happier.

[vincenz]

I've looked at a few integrated bars/stems, most of them won't really work for me. There are multiple variables with bars/stems, including stem length, stem angle, and bar width. It's not practical to produce all possible combinations, so they just produce the combinations they think will be most popular. Unfortunately for me, I use a long stem with narrow handlebars - a combination which is usually not made in integrated bars/stems. If I were to use the version with a short stem and narrow handlebars, I'd be crunched up and lose power. If I used the version with a long stem and wide handlebars, I'd increase drag. Any gains that might be had with integrated bars/stem are lost for me, and I might even end up losing more than when using non-integrated components.

And then there's the secondary matter for proprietary bars/stems that are specific to a particular bike: If some years down the road, a rider wanted to change their fit (or if the bike is sold to a different rider who needed a different fit), would new proprietary components even be available anymore?


Yeh I guess it’s more about the components than the bike/frame at this point, so I suppose this can be addressed with aftermarket components. Now if some aftermarket manufacturers can get around to making separate stems and handlebars (in different shapes) that integrate together and support internal routing, this lack can be addressed because as of right now for people like you and me, there aren’t any solutions. Time will tell.

[cinema]

okay guys, maybe someone might educate me better on the SL7.

why on earth is there even a thread on it? i mean, what makes it so special (apart from spesh marketing spiel) that SL7 deserves a thread and not it's competitors like the giant, trek, cannondale?

they have a good marketing team.

[nooneline]

I've looked at a few integrated bars/stems, most of them won't really work for me. There are multiple variables with bars/stems, including stem length, stem angle, and bar width. It's not practical to produce all possible combinations, so they just produce the combinations they think will be most popular. Unfortunately for me, I use a long stem with narrow handlebars - a combination which is usually not made in integrated bars/stems. If I were to use the version with a short stem and narrow handlebars, I'd be crunched up and lose power. If I used the version with a long stem and wide handlebars, I'd increase drag. Any gains that might be had with integrated bars/stem are lost for me, and I might even end up losing more than when using non-integrated components.

And then there's the secondary matter for proprietary bars/stems that are specific to a particular bike: If some years down the road, a rider wanted to change their fit (or if the bike is sold to a different rider who needed a different fit), would new proprietary components even be available anymore?

Agreed, I'm in a similar situation - and nobody makes a 120mm, 37cm combo! So it's interesting to see these aero packages start to come as two-piece units. Even better, they're more widely applicable when the routing goes outside the stem and into the headtube, as with the new stuff from Spec and Trek. It also means that frames can take standard components, even though they're developed as fully-integrated systems.

[yinzerniner]

I've looked at a few integrated bars/stems, most of them won't really work for me. There are multiple variables with bars/stems, including stem length, stem angle, and bar width. It's not practical to produce all possible combinations, so they just produce the combinations they think will be most popular. Unfortunately for me, I use a long stem with narrow handlebars - a combination which is usually not made in integrated bars/stems. If I were to use the version with a short stem and narrow handlebars, I'd be crunched up and lose power. If I used the version with a long stem and wide handlebars, I'd increase drag. Any gains that might be had with integrated bars/stem are lost for me, and I might even end up losing more than when using non-integrated components.

And then there's the secondary matter for proprietary bars/stems that are specific to a particular bike: If some years down the road, a rider wanted to change their fit (or if the bike is sold to a different rider who needed a different fit), would new proprietary components even be available anymore?

Agreed, I'm in a similar situation - and nobody makes a 120mm, 37cm combo! So it's interesting to see these aero packages start to come as two-piece units. Even better, they're more widely applicable when the routing goes outside the stem and into the headtube, as with the new stuff from Spec and Trek. It also means that frames can take standard components, even though they're developed as fully-integrated systems.

Yeah, I think Mark might be confusing "integrated" with "one-piece." The SL7 has an "integrated" solution where the bars and stem are two-piece with adjustability and the majority of fittings are non-proprietary (1-1/8" steerer, 31.8mm clamp, standard housings, etc).

Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, BMC and Willier all have two-piece integrated solutions that hide the cables but afford all the necessary adjustment. Really the only proprietary items are the headset and spacers which need to account for routing the cables into the frame.

[54ny77]

Spec. Tarmac's are really good bikes. Many of us have 'em, myself included (although mine's much older, circa Boonen era SL2).

They've gotten bonkers (to put it mildly) on proprietry parts and esp. price, but then again hasn't everything.

I'm a bit surprised at all the posts as well. Paceline seems to be mostly a custom bike group. I swear, if I had a dollar for every S-Works bike I see out on the road...same for Trek. I'm sure they area really nice bikes but maybe I am too much of a snob to every consider either brand.

Tim

[Mark McM]

Yeah, I think Mark might be confusing "integrated" with "one-piece." The SL7 has an "integrated" solution where the bars and stem are two-piece with adjustability and the majority of fittings are non-proprietary (1-1/8" steerer, 31.8mm clamp, standard housings, etc).

That's why I referred to "integrated" bars/stems in my first paragraph, and "proprietary" bars/stems in my second paragraph. In this case, the Tarmac Sl7 bars/stems aren't particularly integrated at all. The only integrated part is that the steerer spacers blend in with the stem. There's is no special integration between the bar and stem, nor the stem and steerer. You could use any other stem (and most other aero road bars) and still get the aero cable routing. For this I actually applaud Specialized.

The opposite is the case with the Cervelo S series. These can only use their own special stems, and in the case of the S5, its own special handlebars as well.

[EDS]

I've looked at a few integrated bars/stems, most of them won't really work for me. There are multiple variables with bars/stems, including stem length, stem angle, and bar width. It's not practical to produce all possible combinations, so they just produce the combinations they think will be most popular. Unfortunately for me, I use a long stem with narrow handlebars - a combination which is usually not made in integrated bars/stems. If I were to use the version with a short stem and narrow handlebars, I'd be crunched up and lose power. If I used the version with a long stem and wide handlebars, I'd increase drag. Any gains that might be had with integrated bars/stem are lost for me, and I might even end up losing more than when using non-integrated components.

And then there's the secondary matter for proprietary bars/stems that are specific to a particular bike: If some years down the road, a rider wanted to change their fit (or if the bike is sold to a different rider who needed a different fit), would new proprietary components even be available anymore?

In the case of the Specialized front end (and some others as well), it is a two piece set-up (separate bar and stem) so you could get the stem length you want and the bar width you want, though I don't know if you could specify those lengths when purchasing a new bike. May depend on the shop.

[mcteague]

Spec. Tarmac's are really good bikes. Many of us have 'em, myself included (although mine's much older, circa Boonen era SL2).

They've gotten bonkers (to put it mildly) on proprietry parts and esp. price, but then again hasn't everything.

I have no doubt. Its just their ubiquitous nature I suppose that gets me. If someone would give me any TOL bike from the big guys the Tarmac is what I would take. However, for over $10k of my own money I would go custom every time.

Tim

[54ny77]

This forum and the custom bike world is such a little bubble. The guys I know who get new top shelf big box bikes every couple of years (typically team deals) literally have no idea what a Firefly is, for example. Half of them never even heard of Serotta (when I break out my Ottrott, I get asked what is that thing). On any given weekend here in South Orange County, CA I see multitudes of similar carbon go fast bikes. It's rare, super rare, that anything unique or custom is on the road. It's always the aero du jour.



I have no doubt. Its just their ubiquitous nature I suppose that gets me. If someone would give me any TOL bike from the big guys the Tarmac is what I would take. However, for over $10k of my own money I would go custom every time.

Tim

[yinzerniner]

That's why I referred to "integrated" bars/stems in my first paragraph, and "proprietary" bars/stems in my second paragraph. In this case, the Tarmac Sl7 bars/stems aren't particularly integrated at all. The only integrated part is that the steerer spacers blend in with the stem. There's is no special integration between the bar and stem, nor the stem and steerer. You could use any other stem (and most other aero road bars) and still get the aero cable routing. For this I actually applaud Specialized.


Again you're incorrect. The bars and stem are integrated with each other in two different ways: first the small removable tabs on the back of the bar, which fill in the gap to the stem:
https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Specialized-Tarmac-SL7-review-21-of-25.jpg

Second is the routing of the cables from the bar to the bottom of the stem is pathed out:
https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/21/2020/07/Tarmac-SL7-BR-45-97111e2-scaled.jpg?quality=90&resize=960%2C640
https://sportsincycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/5-1.jpg

Now whether the above integration would also work with other bar/stem combos isn't known yet, but as of right now the stem is specifically supposed to keep the air and cable flow smooth with the matching bars.

The split spacers are for sure integrated AND proprietary for the SL7, since they're designed to match with the headtube and the stem seamlessly.

But complaining in your earlier post that you can't get an "integrated" bar and stem combo that can be fine-tuned is a either a lack of knowledge or a lack of research since there have been many different combos released in the past three years that address aero and adjustability. Not every combo is like the USS Enterprise bar/stem of the S5, and even Cervelo themselves have gone in a different direction with their newest release, the Caledonia (granted it's only for brake cables):
https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Cervelo-Caledonia-5-first-ride-review-cyclingtips-25.jpg

[junkfood]

The expert models come with standard alloy round bars. It still allows for some pretty clean routing although they are not as hidden. https://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/Specialized/?layer=0&wid=1920&hei=640&fmt=jpg&src=is{Specialized/pdp-product-bg-dark?wid=1920&hei=640}&layer=1&src=is{Specialized/94920-30_TARMAC-SL7-EXPERT-UDI2-LTSIL-SMK-BLK_D2-BAR?wid=920&hei=600&$hybris-pdp-hero$}

[reuben]

As someone who started riding/racing in the mid 80s, into the 90s, and then stopped for 2 or 3 decades, I find threads like this to be an odd juxtaposition of confusing and enlightening. Overall, they're rather fascinating.

Sometimes I have no idea what the heck y'all are talkin' about, such as this thread (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=256433).

Other times I do know what you're talking about and wonder, "When did riding a bike become so damn complicated? And expensive?"

Shoes, helmet, tires, go.

[Mark McM]

Again you're incorrect. The bars and stem are integrated with each other in two different ways: first the small removable tabs on the back of the bar, which fill in the gap to the stem:

That's very neat and clean cable routing, but not what most refer to as "integrated". On my "traditional" bike, the cables run from under the hoods through grooves along the handlebar, which are covered by the tape for a smooth appearance - are my handlebars and levers "integrated"?

I don't see anything in those photos indicating that other handlebars couldn't be used. And they probably don't even need to be internally routed aero bars - a traditional round handlebar could work with that stem. I agree that the Tarmac has very smooth and clean cable routing, and you could even say the stem has integrated cabling routing, but the stem and handlebar are no more integrated together than on other bikes.

[mcteague]

What are the odds that the proprietary stems/seat posts etc will be available in 5 to 10 years? I keep my bikes for a long time and like to keep my options open. Sometimes the standards change, BBs and HS sizes, so that can make things difficult. All these special in- house parts do give me pause. However, it seems the industry just wants us to replace our bikes every couple of years. Cars too I suppose,I try to keep them 8-10 years before replacing. Bikes even longer.

Tim

[RKW]

I just finished building mine today the exact same way I have my venge built. 140mm s-works venge/aero/whatever stem and 40cm enve aero bars.

There is nothing integrated about the front end, just how there is nothing truly integrated with the venge. It's cleverly hidden and routed, but definitely not integrated.

[reuben]

.

[Macadamia]

Ahem. $21,900 for the "entry level" aluminum Specialized Allez PMSM (whatever that is) with 8 speed Shimano Claris.

https://www.specialized.com/mx/en/allez/p/171311

looks like that's the mexican site?

[reuben]

looks like that's the mexican site?

Well, that's what I was wondering, but it refers to dollars (US?), not pesos.

[swiftytoenails]

I'm fairly new to road cycling and recently picked up a 2011 S-Works Tarmac SL3. Compared to my Felt F100, it was lighter, faster, stiffer, which in my limited experience, made it more comfortable for longer group rides. It also, unfortunately, was much more fragile. It's running a Campagnolo Super Record 11 speed groupset and the rear derailleur broke at the mounting bolt during a casual ride. It'll be out of action as I source a replacement, but for the short time I was able to ride it, it was awesome to say the least.

I paid $1800 for it, so right about 82% of it's original MSRP. I can see why they cost so much, although for me, buying one new just isn't financially feasible.

[54ny77]

I like my SL2 better. ;)

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1698008884&stc=1&d=1600235883

(Gratuitous post of recently fresh re-paint....and one of these days I'll get around to building it up.)

[eippo1]

That is rather shocking. The failure mode you describe, though, doesn't make sense: the rotor is rotating in a way that would force the caliper down under braking, not lift it up. Further, the caliper is "clamped" onto the rotor under braking by pads, meaning that it literally can't twist (e.g., if only one bolt came off) or slide to one side or the other. And on Shimano, the bolts themselves are clipped after install, so even if loose, the worst thing that can happen is that the caliper rattles a bit - but only when the brakes are "off". The design is pretty robust. I'd be surprised if Campy was much a much different design.

For this to have happened as described:
1) both bolts would have to come off of the caliper somehow, meaning both under-torqued and unclipped;
2) while the brake pads were clamped hard on the rear disc, the caliper would have had to miraculously slide forward off of the disc, and then twist into the wheel;
3) hydraulic brake hoses aren't noodles, so the slide forward part would take some force, and it would need to come forward ~1.5" or more, which is a lot.

This is a very strange accident and I'd love to see pictures, and learn what the actual failure mode was (as a disc brake user!).

I wonder if there wasn't a frame defect or damage and something broke in the vicinity of the caliper. That makes a lot more sense than the caliper coming loose under braking, which I don't think (as described above) can physically happen.

I'd be inclined to agree with you. This seems much more like something is wrong with the frame. Also from having worked in a shop, there are only certain mechanics that would be assembling a bike like this. They are the best and know of any potential issue, and you can bet that the person assembling the newest of the new will be their best mechanic and have attended all the relevant Specialized training.

Otherwise, I'm still enjoying my lowly 10r SL5. Such a good ride and rim brakes.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201016/82f5fff5da6d7428d508d6202c3d97eb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201016/cbd17827e4b193fb493cbaa1c72a9005.jpg

[dthbystereo]

I ordered mine in september recieved the frameset in november, still waiting for my aero fly 2 bars since they've been on backorder
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50730546223_5b07160c48_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2khTiY4)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2khTiY4) by spawniev (https://www.flickr.com/photos/77571341@N07/), on Flickr

[Fidelio]

Happy new year!
I was looking for a Venge frameset but it seems impossible to get one. So, I am now looking for a SL7. There are some available in my area, but I am struggling with the sizing of the Tarmac. 186 cm height 79 cm from saddle to BB. What size do you recommend, 56 or 58. Maybe someone with same height and inseam can help me.
Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[old fat man]

Happy new year!
I was looking for a Venge frameset but it seems impossible to get one. So, I am now looking for a SL7. There are some available in my area, but I am struggling with the sizing of the Tarmac. 186 cm height 79 cm from saddle to BB. What size do you recommend, 56 or 58. Maybe someone with same height and inseam can help me.
Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm same height and ride 79.5cm saddle height. I ride 58cm Cannondale race bikes and would get a 58 sl7.

[rnhood]

You're right between a 56 and 58, so could ride either. If you ride with a lot of drop, go with the 56. If you only ride with 6 or 7 cm of drop, go with the 58. I'm on a 58 Tarmac with a 79 cm BB to saddle and can ride either, but prefer the taller head tube.

[rnhood]

Nice looking bike there "dthbystereo". They don't get any better.

[NorthWestDork]

I think my favorite thing about the newest super bikes is the great paint work. I hope all the glitter and flake paint jobs make their way to lower end framesets. Some of the sworks paint schemes are garish, some of them are brilliant.

[Fidelio]

You're right between a 56 and 58, so could ride either. If you ride with a lot of drop, go with the 56. If you only ride with 6 or 7 cm of drop, go with the 58. I'm on a 58 Tarmac with a 79 cm BB to saddle and can ride either, but prefer the taller head tube.


That is the point. I am riding a BMC Teammachine 56 size with 10 cm of drop. SL7 56 size’s stack is 1 cm lower than my BMC. Maybe it will be too much drop.
Thanks for the response. I will make the decision in the store.
I like 56’s look more than 58


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tepextate]

I ordered mine in september recieved the frameset in november, still waiting for my aero fly 2 bars since they've been on backorder
Dang. Some of you guys have impressive levels of patience. I would've built it up with a different handlebar to ride it while waiting for the Aeroflys to come in.

[SpeedyChix]

I ordered mine in september recieved the frameset in november, still waiting for my aero fly 2 bars since they've been on backorder
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50730546223_5b07160c48_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2khTiY4)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2khTiY4) by spawniev (https://www.flickr.com/photos/77571341@N07/), on Flickr

Stunning!!! Is that the sunset paint color?
I've been looking at the SL7, Aethos and BMC URS....all very different bikes. Also at Ekar. Clearly a result of this past year and wanting to do something different.

[joevers]

Dang. Some of you guys have impressive levels of patience. I would've built it up with a different handlebar to ride it while waiting for the Aeroflys to come in.

Everything is a little different when routing is internal and hydraulic and handlebar swaps cost 100$+ at a shop or a full day wrenching at home. As a mechanic in a shop setting it probably takes me at an absolute minimum 1:30 to swap handlebars on a setup like this. Often quite a bit more. Also, people ordering the newest S-works certainly have other nice bikes they're more than happy to ride in the time being, especially in the winter especially in a year without racing. Some people would rather just get it right the first time.

[Red Tornado]

As someone who started riding/racing in the mid 80s, into the 90s, and then stopped for 2 or 3 decades, I find threads like this to be an odd juxtaposition of confusing and enlightening. Overall, they're rather fascinating.

Sometimes I have no idea what the heck y'all are talkin' about, such as this thread (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=256433).

Other times I do know what you're talking about and wonder, "When did riding a bike become so damn complicated? And expensive?"

Shoes, helmet, tires, go.

Glad I'm not the only one that feels this way!

[dthbystereo]

Nice looking bike there "dthbystereo". They don't get any better.

Thank you

Dang. Some of you guys have impressive levels of patience. I would've built it up with a different handlebar to ride it while waiting for the Aeroflys to come in.
I did'nt have a choice

Stunning!!! Is that the sunset paint color?
I've been looking at the SL7, Aethos and BMC URS....all very different bikes. Also at Ekar. Clearly a result of this past year and wanting to do something different.

Dusty blue metallic, it looks purple but with a bronze tint https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50731276841_c70e418289_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2khX49V)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2khX49V) by spawniev (https://www.flickr.com/photos/77571341@N07/), on Flickr