OT: Talk to Me About Becoming a Vegetarian.

[XXtwindad]

Read this article the other day: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/11/opinion/sunday/animal-rights-cruelty.html

It really had a profound effect on me. Teaching my daughters to be moral citizens is a big imperative for me and I have some ethical "blind spots." One of them certainly is meat consumption. I'm a helpless and heedless carnivore. I'm also aware of the profound impact it has on the environment and workers, let alone cruelty to animals. I've read "Fast Food Nation." But I still haven't entertained the notion of making the transition. I'd like to try and start.

A few considerations: I know that anemia and bone density loss are mitigated by protein. But so does resistance exercises and I do plenty of those. Still, I do about an hour or so (at least) of intense cardio every day, and meat is the quickest and most efficient way of getting my protein needs met, so I would be concerned about that.

I'm interested if anyone here has made the "transition?" Was it incremental or did you go "cold turkey?" (haha) What about when dining out or traveling, where food is so intrinsically tied to culture? I know some recovering nicotine addicts loathe the smell of tobacco. Is it the same way with the smell of meat broiling? Do you miss meat?

I'd appreciate a little more in depth response, if possible. I know mtechnica has talked about being a vegetarian on the Forum, if I'm not mistaken. Others?

[jkbrwn]

This is not scientific.

I was a vegetarian from birth until I was around 19. I stopped because I wanted to test the waters of meat. I'm still a meat-eater 8 years later, but my meat consumption is incredibly low. I do not cook meat at home. If I didn't like burgers so much, I'd be a straight up vegetarian. Meat alternatives, whilst not as prevelant in the U.S. as they were in my English upbringing, have become widely available here and I think they are delicious. Impossible and Beyond Meat are great alternatives. Morning Star have been making great stuff since I was a kid. Whole Foods/Trader Joe's have a great selection but I know they're limited in some areas.

As a kid, it was hard in European countries being a veg. Still is in some parts. Try going into a French mountain restaurant and asking for something vegetarian. You'll get a salad or a fries. I would worry about this in some parts of the rural United States, but not in major metropolitan areas.

I think reducing meat consumption is more important than trying to cut it out entirely. If everyone reduced their meat consumption, it would be more effective than a handful of people going full vegetarian. IMO.

I don't eat much meat due to the treatment of animals and also it's environmental impact. In the same way that I try to reduce my carbon footprint wherever possible in other walks of life.

Edit: also knowing the where your meat, eggs and other dairy products come from.

[Jaybee]

I've been having a lot of similar thoughts lately, including the parts about ethics and parenting.

I don't have any suggestions, but id like to see where this goes.

[Onno]

I've been a vegetarian for about 35 years--fairly strict in the sense that I eat no animal products except for an occasional bit of cheese. I made the decision in grad school, together with my wife. It just seemed reasonable and ethical in lots of ways--for the animals, for those who have to do the horrible work of slaughtering the animals, for our health, and for the environment. The only reason for eating meat is tradition, and that's never a strong argument on its own. We relearned how to cook, and it certainly made us better cooks--more adventuresome and educated.

I'm sure that being vegetarian has helped with our overall health--that and lots of biking! I've never had any regrets or doubts about going vegetarian, although I suppose I'm less rigid in my thinking about it than I was as an early convert. I certainly don't miss meat at all. I find it repugnant for the most part, although the smell of frying bacon is still appealing and fills me with nostalgia for my parents' diner. I hate going to a restaurant where meat is seared, because that is like tobacco smoke, clinging to one's clothes and hair. And I don't like watching people dig into meat either, but I keep those feelings to myself...

[prototoast]

I became a vegetarian about 4 years ago. It wasn't very hard (note: I'm not vegan, and I think becoming vegan would be much harder).

1. I generally don't think about it, I just eat the stuff I was eating before that doesn't have meat in it.

2. Some meat alternatives are pretty good, others are disgusting.

3. In restaurants, I hate most dishes that are explicitly marketed as vegetarian/vegan. Too often, they try too hard, compensating for a lack of meat by just throwing the kitchen sink into the dish. I also hate vinegar, and often when a menu says "vegetarian" that's code for swimming in vinegar. But regular restaurant dishes that just don't have meat are fine.

4. The times and places when I "miss" eating meat the most are always the trashiest kinds of meat. I miss getting a hot dog at the ballpark more than I miss getting prime rib at a fancy restaurant. I miss getting a chicken burrito from the taco truck more than I miss turkey dinner on Thanksgiving.

5. Every once in a while, I will eat meat if their is no reasonable alternative (usually if I'm traveling with other people and they all want to go get food from a place that only serves meat-based dishes. particularly in other countries). I don't want to be a turd in the punch bowl.

[veloduffer]

After getting my prostate cancer diagnosis, I've gone mostly vegetarian. Red meat, chicken and eggs have a correlation to prostate issues. Also cut out sweets. Only developed country in which male population has low prostate issues (enlarged, cancer, etc) is Japan. Asian males (like me) in the US have same incidence as non-Asians due to western diet.

It's not hard, even for me who doesn't like many types of veggies and legumes; I do miss ice cream in the hot weather. My wife is very helpful with various recipes, and I have more fish, seafood and pasta these days.

I might have a steak once in a while (like once in 3 or 4 months - I do love a good ribeye) or chicken. I think if you try to taper at first, the transition is easier. See if you can do it a couple of times a week and eventually you can go full time - it's really about finding tasty alternatives.

[polyhistoric]

Strict vegetarian (lacto-ovo) with Vegan wife - been this way for about 20 years. Whatever your reasons to reduce meat consumption, don't buy in to a lot of the misconceptions about protein requirements and sources. There are a lot of resources and a recent documentary about vegan athletes (Game Changers).

What I would suggest is finding ways to replace meat and re-focus what a "meal" requires. A grain bowl, with marinated grilled veg should = meat/potatoes. It is easy to simply replace meat with a processed product. Its true those quorn patties, Impossible burgers, and beyond meat sausages are all tasty... but they are not necessarily "healthy food." I would not rely too much on these processed alternatives.

I recommend getting 1-2 vegetarian cookbooks, focusing on comfort type foods and choosing a recipe or two a week to dip your toe. Thug Kitchen 101 is gimmicky, but the food is really tasty and typically a 15-20 minute cook. I also highly recommend Isa Does It - she ran the Post Punk Kitchen blog for years and her recipes are all flavor bombs. I was a really bad vegetarian for years (too much pasta, cheese, and processed soy). These types of books really help open your eyes to how flavorful and satisfying a god veg meal can be.

[zennmotion]

I've called myself a vegetarian for a couple of decades for reasons that include both health and ethics (planet and animal rights). But I'm not super strict, so I guess by some definitions I'm not a vegetarian, but the moderate attitude works for me. I travel (or used to pre-Covid) internationally a lot, to countries and under circumstances that would be difficult if I were absolute- I would need to carry my own food for weeks long trips. When I was younger I had work experiences on farms that included commercial poultry barns (the worst, OMG:eek:) and I've helped slaughter pigs, and I also grew up with hunting, and helped dress and butcher deer. As a result, I can't disconnect the source (and the pain and death) from the plate most of the time so I don't eat meat when there's alternatives which, in this country, is most of the time. When traveling, e.g., in places like rural Africa I eat what's put in front of me, sometimes with difficulty, but without ethical concerns- different rules apply there in many circumstances IMO. As far as health and fitness, there is no shortage of solid peer-reviewed research regarding the many benefits of plant-based diets. Nor is there any shortage of examples of successful high level vegetarian and vegan athletes. I was never an elite level cyclist (pack fodder cat 3 on the road and back of the pack cat 2 in CX) but I raced just fine on a veggie diet. Unfortunately there is also no shortage of crackpot youtube influencers and the like, espousing crazy bu11**** like living entirely on fruit (or chicken breasts for that matter). The diet and food industries have done a great job of controlling the conversation, everyone's an expert. For me, the decision to avoid meat nearly all the time, while allowing myself to indulge where necessary makes it pretty easy. I still love the smell of backyard BBQ and I do "cheat" there a couple of times a year when invited to the neighbors (a brisket guru lives a couple of doors away). So I don't feel like I'm somehow missing out as a result. I have also become a damn good vegetarian cook, and have no problem satisfying (most) carnivore guests with a plant-based tasty meal, though I occasionally make a second meat-version of the same dish just in case, which goes home with them as leftovers. I should say that in my experience, plant based diet and weight loss is not automatic, but certainly easier to do (for me) than it would be otherwise- I have to watch the nuts/nut butter, sugar (chocolate) and honey and cheese that I tend to overindulge. Take the cheese out and ride consistently and I can lose weight without much difficulty (a modest pound a week is quite do-able and sustainable without other diet changes)

[bicycletricycle]

I have been a vegetarian for about 20 years. tofu, beans, nuts for protein, I have no idea if I am doing enough to stave off bone density problems, etc.

I mostly did it because I think factory farming is really brutal and I just don't want to be a part of that. I do eat cheese though, I like to imagine the dairy farms are much nicer but I am really just selfish on this one.

Being a vegetarian is not necessarily more ethical than being an omnivore. When I started out that is what I thought but I am not so sure these days. Just depends on where your food comes from and how the people and animals and land involved are treated. As far as environmental concerns go, I used to think it was clear cut but I am also less sure now. Animals do take a lot of resources to raise but they do in turn provide a lot of nourishment. The case gets really blurry when you start thinking about the intense supply chain for processed foods, many of which are popular as meat replacements.

What I am trying to say is, if you just go to the market and buy what looks good it probably doesn't matter which diet you have (from an ethical/impact standpoint). On the other hand, if you learn more about the places your food is coming from and how it is made and make intelligent choices then you can make a big difference, meat or no meat.

Also, watch out for Vegan propaganda. Veganism has some very "enthusiastic" converts and they advocate very "strongly" for their side. Just try to check the facts first. I was Vegan for about 5 years so I am a little bit of an insider on this ;)

[Ralph]

My cardiologist (whom I see regularly since I had my heart attack this past Feb), tells me that people who restrict or avoid eating food from animals and reduce their sugar and salt intake have fewer cardio incidents and generally live longer.

That is good enough for me without making it too complicated. Of course.....you still have to make sure what you eat is good for you. I'm not perfect, but working on it. My goal is LDL about 50. (with a little help)

[Seamus]

I've been eating vegetarian for a year and half. My partner is currently vegan and had been vegetarian for around 10+ years, so obviously my meat consumption was fairly tapered/light prior to that and generally was just when eating out as I rarely felt like cooking meat for one.

So that clearly helped in easing into the transition and understanding nutrition requirements. If starting from scratch, it's a bit of a mind-shift in approaching a meal, but I believe you have a background in nutrition/sports performance so probably know that going in. I did run into a spell of iron/B12 deficiency (was completely wiped out), until I started taking a daily B12+iron pill. Have felt great since then. So just watch out for that as B12 is hard to find in veg/vegan diets.

At this point, I don't really miss meat, nor am I repulsed by it or anything; although there is a disconnect with the idea of personally eating meat. Very occasionally, I'll have a pang for a burger or steak or something, but nothing overpowering. A Beyond Meat burger scratches that itch every once in awhile.

As for eating out, I live in New York, so pretty much every restaurant (Pre-Covid) has multiple vegetarian options. More rural locales generally can be tougher. Some cuisines offer many more options than others (most any Asian cuisine can go with Tofu for Protein, Indian food, etc). I'll note, while I haven't traveled abroad since transitioning to vegetarianism, I've also decided to be flexible and pragmatic in approach to food while traveling.

I'd recommend getting some solid vegetarian/vegan cookbooks to start you off and kind of readjust to what a veg-based meal can be. It doesn't just have to be sad steamed vegetables and rice and unseasoned tofu. I can vouch for these:

-How to Cook Everything Vegetarian - Mark Bittman / Kind of like a Joy of Cooking for vegetarianism. Good all-arounder.
-Veganomicon - Isa Chandra Moskowitz / Bit more adventurous, most every recipe is a hit depending on tastes
-Plenty - Yotam Ottolenghi / Ingredients are more rare, generally more steps, but everything is crazy good.
-Street Vegan - Adam Sobel / Recipes can be complicated, but very good and satisfies any "diner-food" cravings.

When cooking like the above books, you might start to find some similar tricks and strategies (particularly introducing umami in unique ways). Coconut milk/manna and nutritional yeast seem to be steady go-tos. I happen to hate nutritional yeast, so those aren't must-dos.

Lots of good info in the posts above that I largely agree with. Good luck and kudos for giving it a try.

[paredown]

My sibs and I were raised as self-described vegetarians--but really, we exclude red meat and poultry from our diet. I do eat some fish, eggs and dairy, although fairly limited intake of those.

It is so automatic that I no longer think about it, although I have had periods where I have been near-vegan...

I absolutely agree with the "vegetarian" dishes in many restaurants--"vegetarian slop" my mum used to call it--and at hotel banquets/meetings for years they would send out a baked breaded tomato for a main course--not even a vegetable...

Lots of one pot/ one pot plus starch meals in every culture but the US--so we have found inspiration in Mediterranean and Asian cooking--and my standby cook book for fancy is the the Greens cookbook. (Bittman is great too.)

That said, it is easy to slip into bad habits and eat too much pasta/pizza/bread--and having easy access to a store that sells quality produce is a must. (I'm so bummed that we lost our Fairway, don't have a Whole Paycheck close--but we do have a good independent 'health food' store.) To get full nutrition you want to be consuming mostly vegetables, some fruit and carbs at the margin.

I think the argument is both ethical and health-based--but I have never proselytized my friends or my wife when they partake of meat

[bigbill]

My girlfriend is a pescatarian but mostly maintains a vegetarian diet. Most of the meals we share are vegetarian and I don't mind it one bit. You can mess up a steak just like you can mess up a vegetarian meal, but if done properly, it can be delicious. I haven't sworn off anything and still have an occasional In&Out double double, but way less frequently.

[OtayBW]

35+ years lacto-ovo. Very comfortable lifestyle for me. It's somewhat complicated in terms of where everyone chooses to draw the line - e.g., vegan, lacto-ovo, pescaterian, etc. Everyone has to work with whatever health and/or spiritual/moral rationale appeals to them. I decided to maintain use of leather and dairy/eggs, and that has worked for me, but there are gray areas. For me, the lacto-ovo has been compatible for the long-term, though not always perfect in every aspect.

[superbowlpats]

I've always wanted to switch to being a vegetarian but food allergies get in the way. I'm allergic to legumes which are typically a source of protein in the recipes. so i try to minimize my meat intake but I get lazy at times and just throw a burger on the grill. :help:

[Onno]

[-How to Cook Everything Vegetarian - Mark Bittman / Kind of like a Joy of Cooking for vegetarianism. Good all-arounder.
-Veganomicon - Isa Chandra Moskowitz / Bit more adventurous, most every recipe is a hit depending on tastes
-Plenty - Yotam Ottolenghi / Ingredients are more rare, generally more steps, but everything is crazy good.
-Street Vegan - Adam Sobel / Recipes can be complicated, but very good and satisfies any "diner-food" cravings.

[/QUOTE]

Isa Chandra Moskowitz is the best! I highly recommend Isa Does It--best Vegan cookbook ever, in my estimation. Lots of great and very easy recipes.

[Charles M]

My daughter started it. I just started doing it so we both ate the same things...

Not much else to it than that.

[twolve]

I'd recommend what most others are saying, learning a few new recipes and staples, then phase out as much as possible.

My mom was mostly vegetarian growing up and cooked most of our meals, so it was fortunately very easy for to became a vegetarian 8 years ago. I don't miss meat at all.

Also as others have said, vegetarian does not mean healthy. Find out where your food is coming from.

My recent kick has been an omega juicer I got. I've been making green juices with veggies from out garden, nut butters, and snacks. I just made cashew, date, chocolate chip balls that are delicious. Banana ice 'cream' is also very good and has mostly replaces ice cream for me.

[Fixed]

Been on a plant based diet since I was 18
65 at 5”11 and 145 lbs My favorite part of riding ., climbing since moving to San Francisco And recovery from injury enough to start riding again I have fallen love with the hills of Marin .
My resting heart rate is in the upper 30”s
I may not be able control many things or need to but I can control what is going in my mouth
Once you find animal products disgusting it is easy to be a vegetarian
Imho
Cheers

[jemdet]

Beans are your friend. So too are the foods that can be the centerpiece of a meatless dish - sweet potatoes, eggplants, mushrooms. Tofus and seitans are great too.

Stir-fries are my weekday night go-to. I keep a jar of honey / soy sauce / chili paste / rice wine vinegar in the fridge for a quick high-heat cookdown after the saute.

[Louis]

I've been a vegetarian for the last 25 years or so. I actually decided to do it while on a bike ride – I was riding by some cows, and as usual I said “Hello, Mooo-Cows” as I rode by. It then occurred to me that it just wasn’t right to say hello to them one day, and be willing to eat them the next.

As I was growing up my father had a chicken farm, so I’ve seen lots of killing over the years, chickens and other animals too. I finally decided that I wanted as little of that done for me as possible, so ever since no meat, and no fish. I also do my best to avoid other animal products like milk and eggs (the killing is only the part of the horror show - industrial farming tends to be pretty bad even while they’re alive).

I think it’s actually easier to be a vegetarian than a meat-eater. You tend to eat healthier things, and don’t have to mess around with cooking the meat. And finally, it’s really easy to get enough protein in your diet, even if you’re exercising a lot.

Good Luck

[redir]

I've thought about getting back into this as well as full on vegetarian. For a few years I only ate meat or fish that I hunted myself and that was not a lot so it was mostly vegetarian. I could never stop eating dairy though and fish would be a real tough one too.

[XXtwindad]

I've called myself a vegetarian for a couple of decades for reasons that include both health and ethics (planet and animal rights). But I'm not super strict, so I guess by some definitions I'm not a vegetarian, but the moderate attitude works for me. I travel (or used to pre-Covid) internationally a lot, to countries and under circumstances that would be difficult if I were absolute- I would need to carry my own food for weeks long trips. When I was younger I had work experiences on farms that included commercial poultry barns (the worst, OMG:eek:) and I've helped slaughter pigs, and I also grew up with hunting, and helped dress and butcher deer. As a result, I can't disconnect the source (and the pain and death) from the plate most of the time so I don't eat meat when there's alternatives which, in this country, is most of the time. When traveling, e.g., in places like rural Africa I eat what's put in front of me, sometimes with difficulty, but without ethical concerns- different rules apply there in many circumstances IMO. As far as health and fitness, there is no shortage of solid peer-reviewed research regarding the many benefits of plant-based diets. Nor is there any shortage of examples of successful high level vegetarian and vegan athletes. I was never an elite level cyclist (pack fodder cat 3 on the road and back of the pack cat 2 in CX) but I raced just fine on a veggie diet. Unfortunately there is also no shortage of crackpot youtube influencers and the like, espousing crazy bu11**** like living entirely on fruit (or chicken breasts for that matter). The diet and food industries have done a great job of controlling the conversation, everyone's an expert. For me, the decision to avoid meat nearly all the time, while allowing myself to indulge where necessary makes it pretty easy. I still love the smell of backyard BBQ and I do "cheat" there a couple of times a year when invited to the neighbors (a brisket guru lives a couple of doors away). So I don't feel like I'm somehow missing out as a result. I have also become a damn good vegetarian cook, and have no problem satisfying (most) carnivore guests with a plant-based tasty meal, though I occasionally make a second meat-version of the same dish just in case, which goes home with them as leftovers. I should say that in my experience, plant based diet and weight loss is not automatic, but certainly easier to do (for me) than it would be otherwise- I have to watch the nuts/nut butter, sugar (chocolate) and honey and cheese that I tend to overindulge. Take the cheese out and ride consistently and I can lose weight without much difficulty (a modest pound a week is quite do-able and sustainable without other diet changes)

Really good responses so far. Lots of insight. Much appreciated. I should mention that my motivations are purely external as above, as opposed to internally driven, i.e. health concerns. I am not sure where the science comes down on a consciously integrated diet with meat.

[Kirk007]

We cut out red meat almost entirely around the beginning of the year, primarily due to environmental concerns. Three months later the blood work at my annual physical showed I was anemic. Put red meat back in the diet and blood work 6 weeks later showed normal iron levels, hematocrit etc while tests by gastroenterolgist showed everything normal. Her conclusion: your body likes meat.

Oysters, mussels and clams are alternatives but you need to eat a lot of them, and even more so with beans, spinach etc. I also have a genetic anomaly in he size and numerosity of my red blood cells which may make me more susceptible to anemia. So, less red meat than in the past , more beans etc., but red meat will stay as a component, predominately locally sourced.

[XXtwindad]

I have been a vegetarian for about 20 years. tofu, beans, nuts for protein, I have no idea if I am doing enough to stave off bone density problems, etc.

I mostly did it because I think factory farming is really brutal and I just don't want to be a part of that. I do eat cheese though, I like to imagine the dairy farms are much nicer but I am really just selfish on this one.

Being a vegetarian is not necessarily more ethical than being an omnivore. When I started out that is what I thought but I am not so sure these days. Just depends on where your food comes from and how the people and animals and land involved are treated. As far as environmental concerns go, I used to think it was clear cut but I am also less sure now. Animals do take a lot of resources to raise but they do in turn provide a lot of nourishment. The case gets really blurry when you start thinking about the intense supply chain for processed foods, many of which are popular as meat replacements.

What I am trying to say is, if you just go to the market and buy what looks good it probably doesn't matter which diet you have (from an ethical/impact standpoint). On the other hand, if you learn more about the places your food is coming from and how it is made and make intelligent choices then you can make a big difference, meat or no meat.

Also, watch out for Vegan propaganda. Veganism has some very "enthusiastic" converts and they advocate very "strongly" for their side. Just try to check the facts first. I was Vegan for about 5 years so I am a little bit of an insider on this ;)

I thought the scientific evidence on that was pretty compelling. What makes you feel otherwise?

[mtechnica]

I would consider myself an aspiring vegan - that will sometimes eat fish. Fish is mostly just good for you and it tastes good. It’s less gross than factory farming and unlike mammals I don’t think the fish suffer. That said from a health perspective a plant based whole food diet is obviously ideal. Protein is a non issue, they’re called beans, they’re cheap and full of protein and if you’re vegetarian or vegan you’d better get used to eating them. There’s also vegan junk food and things like fake meat which are still a lot better for your health and the environment if you are craving something dank. I would also say if you’re in a situation where someone gives you food for free and you think those wings are lookin good, just eat them. But don’t go out and spend money by choice on meat. Some people have the willpower to go fully vegan but I think it’s OK to cheat every now and then if it keeps you sane. It’s not really an all or nothing thing. Lastly just go vegan instead of vegetarian. Cheese is pretty much the worst thing you can eat health wise and milk never did anyone any favors either so just don’t. If anything you would be better off eating 1lb of chicken than 1lb of cheese.

[rlanger]

I've been vegan for 8 years and now at 53, I'm fitter, leaner and healthier than I was when I was in my 20s. And while I became vegan for health reasons, I remain vegan for ethical reasons.

If you are truly interested in the ethical side of plant-based eating, I urge you to look into the disaster that is the dairy industry. There is more animal suffering in a glass of milk than a steak, and I would sooner eat meat again than consume dairy.

Having said that, I also gained far more health benefits from giving up dairy than meat. My weight dropped, my skin cleared up, my GI issues stopped. It was a complete game changer for me.

If you want to learn more about the ethical aspects, I would suggest listening to The Joyful Vegan Podcast (you can go back many years as the subjects she covers are just as relevant today as they were when I started listening 8 years ago). I haven't personally listened to it in a few years, but Colleen Patrick-Goudreau is an incredible advocate, super smart, articulate and a joy to listen to.

[rnhood]

My doc says eat more red meat since I'm borderline anemic. That's exactly what I do. In fact I had a 1/2 lb sirloin burger today for lunch. I"m not cut out to be a vegetarian.

[HenryA]

A long time ago I was vegetarian (for several years). And doing lots of hard training and racing during that time. I felt I hit a wall in getting faster and added in red meat 2 - 3 times a week and almost immediately got faster. So I eat meat, but I can also enjoy vegetarian only meals for days, or a week -no problem.

Probably the worst thing about being strictly vegetarian is being a pain in the ass to the people in your life who don't have the same desires. Being the special one who can only eat vegetarian meals brings some conflict with it. That is probably less so today as more restaurants serve more vegetarian food.

[GonaSovereign]

I’ve been veg for 25 years. The reason was pretty simple: I like animals and dislike cognitive dissonance.

The cookbooks recommended above are great, and nailing a half-dozen of your favourite recipes will make you a star in your household.

Protein is a non-issue: there are tons of high protein sources available.

Being veg does force you to think more about your food, and that is a huge upside. Thinking ensures I put less crap in my body. I eat very little processed food, and have no interest in things like desert. Real food tastes so much better and I feel better, too.

Ultimately, diet plays a big role in health and fitness. I stand on the occasional podium, so know veg doesn’t slow me down. My GP confirms I’m doing everything right health wise.

It’s a good decision for many people. It’s a welcome decision for animals and the environment, too.

[OtayBW]

I would consider myself an aspiring vegan - that will sometimes eat fish. Fish is mostly just good for you and it tastes good. It’s less gross than factory farming and unlike mammals I don’t think the fish suffer. That said from a health perspective a plant based whole food diet is obviously ideal. Protein is a non issue, they’re called beans, they’re cheap and full of protein and if you’re vegetarian or vegan you’d better get used to eating them. There’s also vegan junk food and things like fake meat which are still a lot better for your health and the environment if you are craving something dank. I would also say if you’re in a situation where someone gives you food for free and you think those wings are lookin good, just eat them. But don’t go out and spend money by choice on meat. Some people have the willpower to go fully vegan but I think it’s OK to cheat every now and then if it keeps you sane. It’s not really an all or nothing thing. Lastly just go vegan instead of vegetarian. Cheese is pretty much the worst thing you can eat health wise and milk never did anyone any favors either so just don’t. If anything you would be better off eating 1lb of chicken than 1lb of cheese.
B-12 is the limiting factor here, but it's easily obtained in a vitamin if that works for you.

[pelicanrando]

I have been vegetarian for 7 years, for ethical reasons. My partner and I enjoy cooking and have dived into a variety of cuisines that have excellent & ancient vegetarian traditions. Especially fun have been vegetarian Indian, vegetarian Sichuan and vegetarian Japanese. I especially recommend the cookbooks "Lord Krishna's Cuisine" for Indian, "Kansha" for Japanese, and "Every Grain of Rice" for Sichuan. There are infinity great restaurants in San Francisco for vegetarians, and we generally stay away from veg-specific places, opting for great regular restaurants that prepare veg dishes.

Like others, I occasionally consume meat if there's not another good option, usually while traveling. Also, I do randonneuring and sometimes on long rides I will eat chicken soup or something like that if it seems appetizing. I had meat a couple times during Paris-Brest-Paris as the vegetarian food gets very repetitive in France.

Reducing the amount of meat you eat is the first step, and easy to do. Then you can decide if you want to go full veg or not. Even if you don't, you are making an impact with your reduced consumption!

[Ozz]

My family has been pescatarian for 20+ years...mostly my wife's thing, but I go along. I eat red meat maybe 5 times per year...chicken a couple times per month. Lots of sustainable fish (Alaskan salmon and cod).

Don't really miss the meat..but do miss the BBQ!

"Plenty" by Ottolenghi referenced above is excellent!

[Mastaci]

Being vegetarian was a good option for me.

[reuben]

I can't directly answer the OP's question, but for a healthier and much more human source of protein, consider this. They live their entire lives 100% in the wild, feeding on grass, until the very last second. I buy one of the package deals or whatever's on sale, and I've got enough for months.

Dan didn't start out trying to be a buffalo rancher. He wanted to help restore the prairie grasses, which unexpectedly led him to become a rancher.

https://wildideabuffalo.com/

I eat plenty of meat and seafood, but I also grow a lot of my own vegetables.

[CZ413]

I’ve also been a vegetarian for ~35 years, since I was in my mid-teens. I’m not vegan, but have been very close to one for the last dozen or so years. For me the choice to become vegetarian was mostly about the cruelty of a meat-based diet, though environmental and health reasons have always factored into the decision as well. I don’t miss the smell or taste of meat; in fact, the moment I stopped eating meat was when I realized I just couldn’t take a bite of the steak fajitas in front of me. I live near, and often ride by, various small dairy farms, and I agree that dairy is profoundly cruel, whether large or small scale.

I’ve always thought that protein is mythologized in this country. (Many other parts of the world have subsisted for centuries on far less protein than Americans consume. And as those countries have turned toward more western-style diets in recent years, some predictable effects have followed.)

I’ve never calculated or attempted to account for how much protein I eat. I try to eat sensibly, and to eat nuts, grains, beans, and vegetables of all kinds, but I still eat too many veggie burgers (amazing how far they’ve come since the 80s) because sometimes I don’t have a lot of time for dinner prep.

That all said, I’ve never felt that my diet holds me back in any way from cycling or other sports, or that I’d be faster/stronger on the bike if I ate a little meat.

[mdeth1313]

I gave up meat about 2 years ago. Still love cheese and eat fish from time to time. It was easy for me because my wife has been a vegetarian since she was 11 and my daughter went vegan in 8th grade. My wife cooks all the time so there's plenty of really good vegetarian dishes. My poor son is the last meat eater in the house. He has different meals.



I saw some posts about being borderline anemic - I had the same issue and found pumpkin seeds have a higher iron content than most nuts. Making sure I get a couple of servings solved that problem for me.

I don't miss meat at all.

[joevers]

This is an old thread but I'll add anyways. Josh I'd say the bay is one of the easier places in north america to be vegetarian. Some folks have trouble accessing vegetarian/vegan food in grocery stores or restaurants but that's not really a concern somewhere like the bay. I've been vegan for about 7 years and never felt my diet really held me back. The last week of December was a 350+ mile week for me. Even then, thinking about my protein intake took exactly 0 minutes of my time that week.

For whatever reason probably not worth getting into here the US eats more protein than anywhere else in the world. If you're scared that cutting out meat is going to negatively affect your health or performance on a bike, then all the millions of dollars spent on advertising and lobbying by meat and dairy industries is working.

Some people have a rocky time the first month or two just figuring out what to eat or what to buy at the grocery, but after a while you just stop seeing meat as food. As someone who quit smoking a year ago, I often do miss it, but I have never once missed meat. In fact I probably only find it more repulsive every year.

When I'm riding or training heavily, I guess I tend to eat more beans, but that's because they're cheap, fast, and fill me up quickly. Sometimes I'll just throw a bunch of canned chickpeas in a mixing bowl, add tons of vegan mayo and seeds, a lemon, some herbs, salt, and onion and eat it for days on end. EF Pro Cycling sometimes posts recipes on their instagram or site, and they're almost always vegan. Their veggie burger is grear. Allen Lim from Skratch has quite a few cookbooks too, for both on the bike and off the bike food. He does use meat and dairy, but has a huge number of vegetarian or vegan recipes. Dana from Minimalist Baker has hundreds and hundreds of easy and quick recipes without meat, lots of which are full of beans, nuts/seeds, sweet potatoes etc. Definitely enough protein and fat to ride as much as you want.

[Hilltopwalters]

After working as a cook for awhile I live and die by this mantra:

MEAT IS A TREAT.

Don't be cheap with it. Get to know your butcher, don't eat it all the time. If you're a hunter, use everything you can.

[5oakterrace]

I changed my nutrition 7 years ago (at 57) because of my doctor. Either change diet or consider a statin. Statins have side effects and sometimes they work, sometimes not.

The China Study and Preventing and Reversing Coronary Artery Disease by Caldwell Esselstyn are key reads. Engine 2 Diet as well. Nothing with a face, very limited oils, no dairy. Eat whole foods, fruits.

I lost 50 pounds to 205 at 6'4". Cholesterol dropped from 220 to 130. I cheat. A bit of chicken in a casserole, fish once a month. Pizza once a year. Sometimes yogurt, sometimes ice cream. I go months without touching ice cream and then cave for a few weeks.

Never red meat which can lead to lots of cancers and heart issues. My father died from heart issues. Friends have been told to cut out red meats after they have heart issues. Well.... why wait.

Protein? The view is we have too much of it in the typical diet. I use a vegetarian protein powder, beans, quinoa, - there is protein in lots of whole foods.

As I consider how animals are treated - that is just another incentive.

I have been cycling 6k miles a year for a decade, Mt. Mitchell, Mt. Washington. I am slow but I usually get there. If anything, the diet has been a huge help. Maybe I live a little longer. The wife is not into this so we eat different stuff and, frankly, that creates temptation.

[jkbrwn]

Since the last time I posted here I've arguably become even more vegetarian and arguably am eating the least amount of meat I ever have since quitting being a full time vegetarian a decade ago. The ease of finding really great vegetarian food in SoCal has definitely contributed to this. Unfortunately, I still love a good burger, which truly is my weakness. But I'll have a burger maybe twice a month.

My wife is the manager of a nice restaurant here in Pasadena and their menu is still heavily meat orientated, with only one entree out of nine being vegetarian on their current seasonal menu.

Until restaurants really embrace vegetarianism in this country (IMO the U.K. and some other 'Western' countries have already done this), it's hard to enlighten carnivores on how good vegetarian food can be.

[Beldar77]

I'm not fully vegetarian but a big reduction in red meat consumption has certainly helped me lose 60 pounds in the last 12 months.

What I would add if you are changing your diet for health reasons / weight loss cutting out added sugars and processed grains are potentially even bigger ideas to get a hold of. It can be hard at first if you like baking / baked treats. But there are ways to overcome that.

And as someone else said in this thread frozen banana "ice cream" is pretty good (frozen avocado too but it does have more added sugars).

My wife / kids love white rice and I'm trying to get them to move to red, brown or black rice. I find the taste better anyway.

[pelicanrando]

With the pandemic, more cooking at home, and fewer opportunities to grab fast food, now is a great time to try out going vegetarian. If you do it for a month and you hate it, you can always go back to eating meat. Most likely, you will learn a lot of veg dishes you like, and if/when you add meat back in, it will be much reduced.

[XXtwindad]

Since becoming a Father, I (sadly) don't have too many vices left. I've never really had a sweet tooth, love a really good IPA every so often, and have replaced a few of my more carnal desires with ...bike frames.

But meat is a tough one. I love the taste of it. I'm sure reduced meat consumption is healthier. Not convinced that going full-bore vegetarian/vegan is healthier. For me, the decision would be prompted by environmental concerns and ethical concerns over the treatment of animals.

[djg21]

Read this article the other day: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/11/opinion/sunday/animal-rights-cruelty.html

It really had a profound effect on me. Teaching my daughters to be moral citizens is a big imperative for me and I have some ethical "blind spots." One of them certainly is meat consumption. I'm a helpless and heedless carnivore. I'm also aware of the profound impact it has on the environment and workers, let alone cruelty to animals. I've read "Fast Food Nation." But I still haven't entertained the notion of making the transition. I'd like to try and start.

A few considerations: I know that anemia and bone density loss are mitigated by protein. But so does resistance exercises and I do plenty of those. Still, I do about an hour or so (at least) of intense cardio every day, and meat is the quickest and most efficient way of getting my protein needs met, so I would be concerned about that.

I'm interested if anyone here has made the "transition?" Was it incremental or did you go "cold turkey?" (haha) What about when dining out or traveling, where food is so intrinsically tied to culture? I know some recovering nicotine addicts loathe the smell of tobacco. Is it the same way with the smell of meat broiling? Do you miss meat?

I'd appreciate a little more in depth response, if possible. I know mtechnica has talked about being a vegetarian on the Forum, if I'm not mistaken. Others?

I gave up red meat after living in the West for a while and learning how the cattle industry damages the environment and impacts the water table. I still eat fish and poultry, though I’m pretty selective about the type of poultry I purchase and I avoid brands that engage in factory farming in favor of local farmers and “free-range” chicken when possible.

It’s been 30 years. I still crave red meat occasionally, and from time to time, but very, very rarely, I might indulge and sneak a bite. When I do have a craving, it’s usually not for a good steak or roast beef, but rather for a fast-food burger.

Meet broiling smells delicious. It always will.

[jacrider]

Like many in this thread, we have seen our meat consumption drop significantly in the past 5-7 years. It has been easy to make the change. We eat meat only at dinner really, and only 2 or 3 times a week. At these meals, the portion size is now smaller as well. My wife's heritage has a strong affinity for pork, so it is our most common protein along with a bit of chicken and fish.

We feel healthier. We are all fit and within 5 lbs our target body weights - but we aren't weight obsessed. We all slowly lost a few pounds along the way, but it wasn't the reason for the change in diet.

We think having a reduced carbon footprint is important. It has caused us to become more creative and expand our cooking range. This we have really enjoyed.

[Turkle]

I was a vegetarian for 7 years. Still ate eggs and dairy, so "lacto-ovo vegetarian" for those keeping score at home.

I never felt better than I did during those 7 years. I truly do think it's the best way to keep yourself healthy, wealthy, and wise.

My significant other absolutely refuses to eat a vegetarian diet, so meat is back on the menu. Can't say I'm thrilled about it, but who wants to cook 2 separate dinners each evening?

[weisan]

I was raised as a buddhist by my parents. We ate a lot of vegetarian meals at home and outside. A lot of their friends were vegetarians. Some were gamblers, womanizers, and swindlers.

During a visit to China, my mum stayed at a hotel that was next to a slaughter house. She heard the screams all day/night long, after that trip, she swore off from eating pork. After several years, the memory wore off and she went back to her old diet. She can't give it up.

If you switch to vegetarian diet for ethical reasons, make sure you harmonize and align the rest of your values accordingly. What I mean by that is, don't be a vegetarian that treats people poorly or violate other areas of ethics. It defeats the purpose.

[jkbrwn]

During a visit to China, my mum stayed at a hotel that was next to a slaughter house. She heard the screams all day/night long, after that trip, she swore off from eating pork.


This is why I was a vegetarian from birth till I was 18 or 19. My mum was in India in the 70s and saw loads of sheep being slaughtered. She vowed to never eat or cook an animal again and she hasn't. Quite impressive really. But my at-the-time girlfriend introduced me to burgers and the rest is history...

[XXtwindad]

I was raised as a buddhist by my parents. We ate a lot of vegetarian meals at home and outside. A lot of their friends were vegetarians. Some were gamblers, womanizers, and swindlers.

During a visit to China, my mum stayed at a hotel that was next to a slaughter house. She heard the screams all day/night long, after that trip, she swore off from eating pork. After several years, the memory wore off and she went back to her old diet. She can't give it up.

If you switch to vegetarian diet for ethical reasons, make sure you harmonize and align the rest of your values accordingly. What I mean by that is, don't be a vegetarian that treats people poorly or violate other areas of ethics. It defeats the purpose.

This is an excellent point.

[felipz24]

my father became a vegetarian after having a close call with a heart issue. the surprise has been that he's seen a major change in his general health afterward. he sleeps better, feels more flexible, leaner, and has more controlled energy throughout the day. it's been a real eye opener for everyone around him

[verbs4us]

The Why
In the 1980s, when I was a medical writer, I convened a group of cardiologists for a discussion about anti-arrhythmic therapies. During one of the breaks, I asked the group a question I had been wondering about: In the primary literature about coronary artery disease and atherosclerosis, there is always a disclaimer along the lines of "these longitudinal data do not apply to Jains, Seventh Day Adventists and some Buddhists..." And I asked why. Everyone in the group said, "Oh, they're mainly vegetarian, and they meditate, so they don't get much heart disease."

Since I have four grandparents who had all dropped dead in their 60s, I thought, "Oh..!" And transitioned to vegetarianism.

The How
If you eat a SAD (standard American diet) you may not feel satisfied as a vegetarian. There are three things to watch for: B-12, iron and calcium. If you're including dairy, you probably get enough calcium and B-12. Iron is tougher, since non-heme iron found in plants is absorbed less well than heme- iron found in animals. It is also blocked by calcium -- so have calcium-rich and iron-rich foods at different times. Acids almost enhance iron absorption (eg, tomato juice, vinegar, lemon juice) and cooking pasta in an iron pot increases its calcium content by something like 400%. B-12 is not found in plants (except by contamination). Plenty available by supplement in nutritional yeast and cereals.

I found that if I eat enough to maintain weight, I don't crave protein of dairy or meat. Beans are hard to come by in the SAD (even though the rest of the world lives on them!) so eating at home is easier than eating out, but there is always Mexican, Indonesian, Korean, Vietnamese, Thai, Chinese, etc.

Overall, I have more energy and more even energy as a vegetarian. My eyes are not glued shut in the morning, and my asthma is minor compared to what it once was. The key, I found, if listening carefully to your body and cravings. At first, it might seem like a lot of work. After a time, it becomes like breathing.

[marciero]

Vegan for the last several years. No animal products with rare exception that include sardines once in a blue moon, or New year's breakfast of french toast. I used to have an exception for local and humanely-raised, grass-fed, etc. beef, but stopped that a couple of years ago.
Health, ethics, and environment; i.e. climate change, all provide very strong arguments

[wc1934]

There was a post (beyond meat) awhile ago and this was my reply:

"Many many moons ago (40+) we were in a restaurant in Portugal. Upon the suggestion of the waiter I ordered filet mignon. I was never a big meat eater despite my Italian lineage (raised on meatballs, salami, prosciutto, capocolla, braciola etc).

To my surprise the filet was outstanding and I told the waiter so. He stated the the cow was grass fed and was butchered the day before (unlike the process in the US) thus accounting for the tenderness and flavor. Little did I know that years later his explanation would be borne out in documentaries such Modern meat produced by Frontline, films like Food Inc., and books like How not to die by Michael Greger, M.D".

As a result I have been a pescatarian for over 20 years and I believe I (along with the animals) am better off because of it. But now even the fishing industry/farms are questionable. The salmon pens they are so crowded that they can barely swim and as a result are very fatty, not to mention what they are fed - disgusting!!!

Try going meat free for a month. You can always go back to eating nitrates at any time -:no:

[OtayBW]

I was raised as a buddhist by my parents. We ate a lot of vegetarian meals at home and outside. A lot of their friends were vegetarians. Some were gamblers, womanizers, and swindlers.

During a visit to China, my mum stayed at a hotel that was next to a slaughter house....
I worked in a slaughterhouse for less than 1 shift 35 years ago, and among other things, that was the precipitating factor that led to my veggie lifestyle to date.