More speed on a cyclocross bike

[konaman]

I am riding a Waterford X-22 (cyclocross) currently in fast city mode - on a set of riser bars, cantilever brakes, thumbshifters, 9-speed Ultegra and 28c continental gatorskin. I love the bike.

Other than training my own fitness, what would you suggest to help me gain some speed? would changing to a drop bar setup help significantly? I am constantly being smoked by Roadies and TT riders btw.

Or should i just get a proper roadie?

Thanks!

[charliedid]

Buy a road bike.

[AngryScientist]

any bike can be optimized for the primary function, but....

I am constantly being smoked by Roadies and TT riders btw.



what does that actually mean?

are you racing? doing fast group rides? just getting passed on the road by random people blowing by you?

what kind of riding? long road races? short group rides, sprints? crits??

what??

[konaman]

any bike can be optimized for the primary function, but....



what does that actually mean?

are you racing? doing fast group rides? just getting passed on the road by random people blowing by you?

what kind of riding? long road races? short group rides, sprints? crits??

what??


Not doing racing. I normally ride alone and could see fast bikes passing me. And i could not catch up. Was wondering if i could optimize my current setup to at least keep up.

[Bentley]

What is your current sustained speed? How is your bike set up, cross tires, 1X, what is your current cassette/chainring? How much does your bike weigh?

Honestly, there are some things to get faster... weight/fitness, but Tri-athletes on Aerobikes will always be a bit of a problem, also, there are always people that are faster than you are. Enjoy the ride, you are not in a race...

[colker]

Buy a road bike.

Yes. Instead of half azz measures do it once and do it right. A road bike is the faster bike.

[Peter P.]

While it would be easy for me to join the others and suggest you buy a road bike, I think you'll be disappointed.

It's your training and genetics, sir.

While you can't do anything about your genetics, you can certainly do something about your training.

You need to get spanked trying to hang with those roadies. Once you see you're starting to not get dropped by them, it will be time to reward yourself with a road bike.

You will have learned, Grasshopper.

[muz]

No matter how fast you get, there will be faster guys. I am a decent climber, but most local climb KOMs are 50% to 100% faster than my PR. My faster friends do a 14-hour Everesting, but the record is 7:02...

As the man said, "It is not about the bike!"

[robt57]

IMO, your biggest advantage is if you can get long and low, put out power, and tolerate the position.

Think about the frontal area of your chest and torso upright VS at even 50% less angle. [45^ VS 22.5^ example] Narrower bars also get you out of the wind a bit.

Way cheaper than a full aero bike would be getting yourself into a much lower profile to the air you are riding into. The faster you go the more watts you'll need to overcome what ever % of watts you are using moving into even still air. If it is dead still, you still are making a 20 MPH headwind @ 20 MPH, right?

Drafting with multiple riders helps a lot. Skill required, not to mention trust etc.

[charliedid]

Buy a road bike.

[Monsieur Toast]

I was riding a rigid Salsa El Mariachi while transitioning from MTB to road. The El Mariachi was definitely setup for speed on pavement, but on the road loop I've ridden hundreds of times there was no hanging with most decent roadies while on the cyclocross bike.

Once my Della Santa showed up I overnight went from getting dropped to being able to hang with all but the upper echelon of roadies around here. Hell, I took a year off due to injury, and came back with an Ottrott and beat all my Della Santa times before I even got into decent riding shape.

Sometimes certain tools are just better at certain tasks.

https://zerominuszero.net/000/bici/Salsa_ElMariachi.jpg

[Mark McM]

I disagree with those that say you need to get a road bike. The geometry of a cyclocross bike isn't much different from a road bike (and the differences that exist primarily affect handling, not speed). The key to speed on a road bike (other than the power and fitness of the rider, obviously), is the rider's position. Assuming the bike is properly sized, changing the riser bar to a drop bar should allow you to achieve just as good a position on a cyclocross as on a road bike (you may want to visit a good bike fitter to optimize your position). That, plus a good set of road tires, will get you 99% of the way towards what a true road bike will give. You'll have to change the handlebar and probably the stem, the brake/shift levers, and the tires, but it could be a less expensive option than buying a completely new bike

[CMiller]

Drop bars if you aren’t comfortable or feel like riding more aggressively. Other than that forget the fast people and have fun at your own speed!

[CMiller]

I agree with Mark, I don’t see a huge point in buying a road bike if you can set up a high quality cross bike like yours. You’ll see way bigger differences from just drop bars and good fit.

[slowpoke]

For a group of folks that refer to Gatorskins as a "garden hose", I'm surprised no one has suggested lighter tires. Continental GP5000s tires will offer a noticeable ride difference, while still providing puncture resistance, and are often on sale.

[Mark McM]

Oh, and speaking of the tires ...

There was another thread (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=255829) were it was discussed just how much extra speed could be gotten by switching from 28mm deep aluminum rims to 50mm deep carbon rims, and it turned out the number was pretty small - just a fraction of 1 mph which may not even be noticeable from the saddle. However, you are using some very slow tires (Gatorskins), and changing to lower rolling resistance tires will add a speed improvement which should be instantly noticeable.

In the other thread, Josh gave a link to Silca's Power Calculato (https://silca.cc/pages/power-calc)r, which can estimate the power to required to go a certain speed, based on the bike and rider. The coefficient of rolling resistance for a variety of tires can be found on the BicycleRollingResistance.com (https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/) web site. Plugging in the numbers for me and my bike, the calculator says that with 25mm Continental Gator Skins @80 psi it would take 186.71 Watts to go 20 mph (riding on the hoods). If I switch to 25mm Continental GP 5000s at the same pressure, at the same power output I would go to about 21 mph - a 5% increase in speed just by swapping tires. If I were to to use Latex tubes instead butyl, my speed would go up another 0.2 mph.

So, the thing that is slowing you down the most on your bike is likely your upright and wide position on your riser bar, and the next biggest thing slowing you down is your tires.

[sw3759]

well if your goal is to blow by other roadies...just skip all the above suggestions and get an E bike.problem solved

[weisan]

https://nitrocdn.com/oKkqydWPNyjuGClAZSpgfJkUVHZtumHE/assets/static/optimized/rev-2c5e9c5/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/diy-conversion-kit.jpg

[mtechnica]

Just set it up like a road bike and get some fast rolling 32c tires

[charliedid]

Buy a road bike.

[mtechnica]

I agree with Mark, I don’t see a huge point in buying a road bike if you can set up a high quality cross bike like yours. You’ll see way bigger differences from just drop bars and good fit.

Yeah, a cross bike with actual cyclocross racing geometry can be set up like a road bike and is basically just as fast as a road bike. If you keep the right size tires on them they handle good too, but if you slap small 23-25 tires on them they might feel weird versus 32-35c tires. My aluminum redline is actually quite sporty if you ask me.

[konaman]

Thanks very much for all the opinions. Gives me a lot to think.

I am trying not to spend more $ than needed. I am not looking to be the fastest, just wondering if the issue is only me (the engine) or the bike itself, or if I can narrow the gap with some tweaks. I got it that some quick wins are the drop bars for aerodynamics and the tyres.
Thanks all.

[Gummee]

Thanks very much for all the opinions. Gives me a lot to think.

I am trying not to spend more $ than needed. I am not looking to be the fastest, just wondering if the issue is only me (the engine) or the bike itself, or if I can narrow the gap with some tweaks. I got it that some quick wins are the drop bars for aerodynamics and the tyres.
Thanks all.

Unless you have take-off parts laying around the garage or are just buying an entire inexpensive group, skip that and buy a road bike. I have one of my CX bikes set up with 32c GP5ks at 60psi and love the ride, but it isn't a road bike. It gets close when I stick another pair of wheels on there with 25c GP5ks, but my road bikes are still faster.

My aero road bike with hidden cables and 45mm carbon rims is faster still.

...but... road bike or CX bike, I still get dropped when the road tilts upwards. I just don't have the build to be a climber and no bike out there is going to fix that

M

[charliedid]

Unless you have take-off parts laying around the garage or are just buying an entire inexpensive group, skip that and buy a road bike. I have one of my CX bikes set up with 32c GP5ks at 60psi and love the ride, but it isn't a road bike. It gets close when I stick another pair of wheels on there with 25c GP5ks, but my road bikes are still faster.

My aero road bike with hidden cables and 45mm carbon rims is faster still.

...but... road bike or CX bike, I still get dropped when the road tilts upwards. I just don't have the build to be a climber and no bike out there is going to fix that

M

Mark and others gave you good advice to eek out the best from that CX bike. It won't magically become a road bike but I agree that on a budget it's a good move.

Call me when you want to buy a road bike :)

[cgates66]

DROP THE GATORSKINS! GP5000s or equivalent.

It won't save you from getting smoked, but you'll be a bit faster and way more comfortable.

[.RJ]

For a group of folks that refer to Gatorskins as a "garden hose", I'm surprised no one has suggested lighter tires. Continental GP5000s tires will offer a noticeable ride difference, while still providing puncture resistance, and are often on sale.

^ This

Gatorskins are the worst tire ever created. They ride awful, they're heavy, they're slow, they're treacherous over frozen surfaces and I dont think they are even that much better with punctures. Just turrible. TURRIBLE.

Start there, and then add some drop bars and you'll be fine.

[Hellgate]

How fit are you? Have you been riding for a while?

I regularly ride my CX bike on the road. With a nice set of Corsas it's fast, and that's with cantilevers blowing in the wind. Even with limited gearing I can ride with most groups.

The bike, excluding department store bikes, usually isn't the issue. It's fit and fitness.

Oh, and a good set of tires. [emoji6]

[thirdgenbird]

I’m in the drop bar camp.

A good cross frame set up with a road compact, wide range cassette, and good 30-32mm slicks is a fantastic do everything bike.

[robt57]

I’m in the drop bar camp.

A good cross frame set up with a road compact, wide range cassette, and good 30-32mm slicks is a fantastic do everything bike.

^^This, and as I said, get your Barquentine to catch the least amount of wind, unless a tail wind of course...

Suggestion for the tire help from me would be 28mm Conti GP4000 with Latex tube. May give you some extra fuel left on longer rides. Some 28-32mm tires have terrible rolling resistance, choose well.

That said I have been on ride and been dropped on my Addict with 25mm GP4/Latex tubes, by a guy on a CX Fuji with low knob CX tires.

[nalax]

Riser bars on a Waterford CX bike is just wrong. Put the drop bars back on it with better tires and you'll pick up speed. Sounds like you turned the Waterford into a cruiser.

[carpediemracing]

Thanks very much for all the opinions. Gives me a lot to think.

I am trying not to spend more $ than needed. I am not looking to be the fastest, just wondering if the issue is only me (the engine) or the bike itself, or if I can narrow the gap with some tweaks. I got it that some quick wins are the drop bars for aerodynamics and the tyres.
Thanks all.

If you're looking for a quick, inexpensive "speed" upgrade, I'd get old school (?) bar end, cut down the bars, and try to mimic a road bike position by getting a longer stem (and dropping it a bit).

It's not just aero. When you lean over you recruit your glutes so you have more power.

I found that I could go quite quickly on my mountain bike with narrow bars and bar ends. My torso was pretty flat, my arms extended but not very wide, and I could hold the position for a while. It's very similar to a road bike position if you were on the hoods. I "determine" where to cut the bars by moving the levers in until the bar bulge prevents any more inward movement, cut the grips down to my hand width, put the bar ends on, and cut flush with the bar end.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UrW-qxcqVCw/UfXhhdFNRGI/AAAAAAAAFWQ/a2dI9gaSlNo/s800/20130727_Cockpit.jpg

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10441099_10152867773528824_7284758648283587464_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=XNgVVPjlAcoAX9CKGUN&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=ad0e68bd3a76feb7e16d933fd3af7a3c&oe=5F4D1F2A

[wallymann]

before going whole hog with a road-bike you could go quicker on current bike if you can tolerate a position based on drop-bars, to reduce your body's aero drag as robt57 suggests.

also lighter tyres and maybe even aero-ish wheels will also help quite a bit as well.

beyond that, get a road bike. but if your body still prefers a "riser-bar" position on a road bike, you'll still find some limitations on how much faster you'll go.


I am riding a Waterford X-22 (cyclocross) currently in fast city mode - on a set of riser bars, cantilever brakes, thumbshifters, 9-speed Ultegra and 28c continental gatorskin. I love the bike.

Other than training my own fitness, what would you suggest to help me gain some speed? would changing to a drop bar setup help significantly? I am constantly being smoked by Roadies and TT riders btw.

Or should i just get a proper roadie?

Thanks!

[oldpotatoe]

I disagree with those that say you need to get a road bike. The geometry of a cyclocross bike isn't much different from a road bike (and the differences that exist primarily affect handling, not speed). The key to speed on a road bike (other than the power and fitness of the rider, obviously), is the rider's position. Assuming the bike is properly sized, changing the riser bar to a drop bar should allow you to achieve just as good a position on a cyclocross as on a road bike (you may want to visit a good bike fitter to optimize your position). That, plus a good set of road tires, will get you 99% of the way towards what a true road bike will give. You'll have to change the handlebar and probably the stem, the brake/shift levers, and the tires, but it could be a less expensive option than buying a completely new bike

Mee too
:banana:

4 things make you 'faster'..

Fit-bike fit you? See position above
Fitness-being cycle 'fit'
Fat-lack there of on you
Finesse-riding and training smart.