Slammed stem rant

[smead]

I can't count how many times I've seen a beautiful frameset, in just my size, for a good price, only to have the matching fork cut for a slammed stem. Come on folks, what the heck is wrong with running a few spacers on top? Another "looks dorky" discussion? Is it just me or are the most active sellers on this forum listing the sweetest high-end framesets the ones who usually slam the fork (those who ride a 56 know who I'm talking about :rolleyes: ).

Unless you think you are going to keep the frameset for yourself for a long time and not worried about aging, sheesh just cut the fork 2 cm higher and put on some top spacers. You will have a much easier time selling the frameset when it comes time for that.

Oh that felt good, thanks for listening!

[AngryScientist]

that's crazy. i buy bikes to ride and enjoy for myself, not curate for the next owner.

i would assert that if you are compromising some aspect of your bike in consideration of the next owner, you're doing it wrong.

IMO, of course.

[jkbrwn]

that's crazy. i buy bikes to ride and enjoy for myself, not curate for the next owner.

i would assert that if you are compromising some aspect of your bike in consideration of the next owner, you're doing it wrong.

IMO, of course.

Yeah, this, totally. If my fit dictates a slammed stem, I'ma slam that stem and cut the excess off the top. Life is too short to ride ugly bikes :-)

[cinema]

hear hear.

leave some steerer for the rest of us

‘it’s cool to be uncool’
-marge simpson to bart

[AngryScientist]

hear hear.

leave some steerer for the rest of us

‘it’s cool to be uncool’
-marge simpson to bart

in life, we all need to choose if we want to be the marge, bart or homer's of the world.

you have shown your cards cinema.

:hello:

[joosttx]

I can't count how many times I've seen a beautiful frameset, in just my size, for a good price, only to have the matching fork cut for a slammed stem. Come on folks, what the heck is wrong with running a few spacers on top? Another "looks dorky" discussion? Is it just me or are the most active sellers on this forum listing the sweetest high-end framesets the ones who usually slam the fork (those who ride a 56 know who I'm talking about :rolleyes: ).

Unless you think you are going to keep the frameset for yourself for a long time and not worried about aging, sheesh just cut the fork 2 cm higher and put on some top spacers. You will have a much easier time selling the frameset when it comes time for that.

Oh that felt good, thanks for listening!

Having you considered doing some yoga?

[Fixed]

The solution is to buy new
used is just what it is used
Cheers
I do not cut mine I always thought the fork was stronger with a couple of spacers the top

[ultraman6970]

I do get the op's rant and thats they reason you have to leave some 2 or 5 cm on top of the slammed stem. Because is frustrating to let a bike go because there's no room for a couple of cm of spacers.

[Plum Hill]

My steerer tubes have been left a bit long. One bike has a 5mm spacer; another 10mm; another 20+mm (I should cut that one down but too lazy to pull the fork).
I’m not compromising this aspect for the next owner, I’m doing it for me. It’s called the aging process. Yoga won’t help what I have going on.
I’ve walked away from a few primo bikes that didn’t have enough steerer tube for me. The last thing I want to do is buy a bike and then not be able to find a fork for it.
To each his own....

[KJMUNC]

Haha....this thread is perfectly timed for the discussion I had with my LBS this past weekend. I took my bike it to have the steerer trimmed as I had over 4cm above the stem. I’m also searching for a low stack headset dust cover so opted to keep 10cm of steerer left just in case. The Mech cut it and left 11....:butt:

So as soon as I find that dust cover I’m lopping off the rest. If you need more than a 220cm HT you should prob be riding another bike. :fight:

[OtayBW]

that's crazy. i buy bikes to ride and enjoy for myself, not curate for the next owner.

i would assert that if you are compromising some aspect of your bike in consideration of the next owner, you're doing it wrong.

IMO, of course.
The problem there - at least in some cases - is that an owner will slam the stem for his enjoyment and then later sell the bike, often expecting to get some high percentage of what he bought it for even though it is no longer in that same, unaltered condition.

[buddybikes]

Wait till you get old, and so wish you had kept that precious steerer

[Bentley]

I can't count how many times I've seen a beautiful frameset, in just my size, for a good price, only to have the matching fork cut for a slammed stem. Come on folks, what the heck is wrong with running a few spacers on top? Another "looks dorky" discussion? Is it just me or are the most active sellers on this forum listing the sweetest high-end framesets the ones who usually slam the fork (those who ride a 56 know who I'm talking about :rolleyes: ).

Unless you think you are going to keep the frameset for yourself for a long time and not worried about aging, sheesh just cut the fork 2 cm higher and put on some top spacers. You will have a much easier time selling the frameset when it comes time for that.

Oh that felt good, thanks for listening!

I don’t cut the steerer for a new bike, especially if I am just starting to ride it. If it’s a keeper I cut it, but always leave a little steerer above the stem just in case I lose a little flexibility.

I ride long distances, mostly on the hoods and my “fit” is based on riding “on top”. That said, when you buy the bike you own the right to do what you please, so I don’t see it as a “social responsibility”.

I agree, slammed stems, no bueno

Ray

[KJMUNC]

This also reminds me I need to just buy a Park SG-8 cutting guide....LBS charged me $45 and that's not the first time. I have all the other gear, but always think "this will be the last time I need to cut one of these"

[tomato coupe]

It's hard to tell whether or not this is a serious thread. I hope it's not...

[FlashUNC]

Core work and yoga yo.

Does wonders for off bike fitness as well.

[gngroup]

Having you considered doing some yoga?

This.
Or:
- buy a new fork
- don’t buy the bike

How can you possibly complain that a previous owner didn’t set the bike up for your fit??? Comical.

[J.Higgins]

Good rant.

A couple years ago, I bought a 56cm Bilenky Tourlite from original owner. Yes, I ride 56cm! And yes, guess what? Slammed stem. :rolleyes:

Despite the slammed stem, matters got a lot worse when I realized that the fork was a 1" threadless fork. I sent it back to Steve Bilenky to get the steerer tube lengthened.

Meanwhile, I looked everywhere for a decent fork for that bike and came up with nothing. I looked because perhaps it was as simple as going with threaded forks. Everything I looked at was either carbon fiber, disc-brake, or cheap unicrown madness. I wanted a stylish fork worthy of being on a fine bike. The closest I got to was a Soma fork they stopped making.

[Allcarbon]

The problem there - at least in some cases - is that an owner will slam the stem for his enjoyment and then later sell the bike, often expecting to get some high percentage of what he bought it for even though it is no longer in that same, unaltered condition.

I think this in particular is what I'd have to agree with. Additionally, as someone else mentioned, what if some physical change to your body from age/injury requires some small adjustments? I get it, a slammed stem is sleek, but not worth the tradeoff IMO...

On the other hand, those people who don't cut and leave a foot of steerer tube... :no:

[Coffee Rider]

Although I buy bikes planning on keeping them indefinitely, I always leave room both just in case and with a realistic expectation that I will be tweaking my position with time and that it will involve moving the stem up instead of down.

[smead]

This.
Or:
- buy a new fork
- don’t buy the bike

How can you possibly complain that a previous owner didn’t set the bike up for your fit??? Comical.

You (and some others) are missing the main point. Not being self-centered here. What I'm saying is that the owner would be better off come for sale time having some steerer for a potential buyer to work with. And of course in some cases I might be happier for that too.

And I said "matching fork" on higher end frames. If I shell out 2 bills on a beautifully painted high end frame w/ color matched fork and then have to swap out the fork, I'll pass.

Sure cut your fork for your fit, you can get that fit with a spacer or two on top. If that's too dorky for you, well .... FWIW, I also think not clamping to the very top of a thin walled carbon fork tube is preferable.

[charliedid]

It's hard to tell whether or not this is a serious thread. I hope it's not...

I fear it is.

[Waldo62]

Having you considered doing some yoga?

On the other hand, if those with slammed stems suffer a back, neck, or some other injury, or reduction in flexibility caused by something else that leaves them unable to ride a bike with a slammed stem, they're out of luck on all their bikes, yoga or no yoga.

[Waldo62]

Core work and yoga yo.

Does wonders for off bike fitness as well.

Core work and yoga cut into my saddle time yo...
;-)

[Coffee Rider]

On the other hand, if those with slammed stems suffer a back, neck, or some other injury, or reduction in flexibility caused by something else that leaves them unable to ride a bike with a slammed stem, they're out of luck on all their bikes, yoga or no yoga.

In that case, they could just flip that -17 degree stem and raise the bars a lot. There's usually a way to tinker fit except with regard to something I have where the original owner not only cut the steer tube for slamming the stem, but cut it so short that it could only work with a very particular stem with a very low stack height. I ended up getting another fork.

[Dave]

I used 10mm of spacer on the two LOOK 585 frames, but newer frames often have a little taller head tubes, so my Colnagos have the stem slammed and use -17 stems to produce the 10cm or 4 inch saddle to bar drop that I want.

I can raise the bars up by about 2cm, just with a -6 degree stem and lot more if that stem was flipped up.

When I sell a frame, I list the height of the bars above the floor and the saddle to bar drop to expect with some common stem angles, so there are no surprises.

I've always sold frames quickly.

[charliedid]

On the other hand I might lay down for a nap and never wake up. Why would I set "my" bike up for the sake of some potential future owner? Silly IMO

It's not your bike.

[colker]

Cut the steerer all you want and be happy. Sell it at 25% and make the buyer happy w/ lots of cash to buy a new fork.
Win win.

[akelman]

Au contraire, Ryun's tendency to slam his stem has saved me thousands and thousands of dollars through the years. I'm incredibly grateful!

[pasadena]

I agree with the OP.
I would go further though.

First of all, why all the sizes and colors? I only ride one size, and only like black bikes. So, if they are planning to resell, keep that in mind.

Also what's with all the "minor scratches"? If they would just ride around in bubblewrap, they could sell it on the secondary market much easier.

So many fauxpas when people buy new bikes! Next time, consider my needs because I might just consider to look at an ad to maybe not buy that bike.

[BRad704]

I feel it's just as vain to refuse to consider a 0-degree or riser stem on a bike just because the steerer is cut to be slammed. Or get some Specialized Hover bars to raise it up... Good Lord there are so many decent options. :bike:

[smead]

au contraire, ryun's tendency to slam his stem has saved me thousands and thousands of dollars through the years. I'm incredibly grateful!

+1!!

[cgolvin]

in life, we all need to choose if we want to be the marge, bart or homer's of the world.

Come on, Nick, you know that there are a whole lotta Lisas on the Paceline…in fact, I think they outnumber the others.

Personally, I'll go with Maggie -- as the saying goes (roughly), better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[gbcoupe]

Trying is the first step towards failure. ;)

[mtechnica]

2cm??? Nah

[FlashUNC]

On the other hand, if those with slammed stems suffer a back, neck, or some other injury, or reduction in flexibility caused by something else that leaves them unable to ride a bike with a slammed stem, they're out of luck on all their bikes, yoga or no yoga.

Yeah but then you get to go buy new bikes, and that's the best gift of all.

[mtechnica]

I do get the op's rant and thats they reason you have to leave some 2 or 5 cm on top of the slammed stem. Because is frustrating to let a bike go because there's no room for a couple of cm of spacers.

5cm??? At least you have the option of using it for a flag pole.

[Pegoready]

I can't count how many times I've seen a beautiful frameset, in just my size, for a good price, only to have the matching fork cut for a slammed stem. Come on folks, what the heck is wrong with running a few spacers on top? Another "looks dorky" discussion? Is it just me or are the most active sellers on this forum listing the sweetest high-end framesets the ones who usually slam the fork (those who ride a 56 know who I'm talking about :rolleyes: ).

Unless you think you are going to keep the frameset for yourself for a long time and not worried about aging, sheesh just cut the fork 2 cm higher and put on some top spacers. You will have a much easier time selling the frameset when it comes time for that.

Oh that felt good, thanks for listening!

I'm with ya.

I cannot believe how many serial bike buyers will slam that stem and ride the bike a handful of times and then be confused why it won't sell.

Sure, the bike is for the original owner first and foremost and they can do what they want, but I also question fashion vs. function. I mean really, every single bike from every manufacturer dictated a slammed stem with zero spacers magically? All of a sudden every manufacturer gets your stack correct to the mm, accounting for different stems, bars, headsets, etc? I don't think so. Slammed is a lifestyle.

[MikeD]

I can't count how many times I've seen a beautiful frameset, in just my size, for a good price, only to have the matching fork cut for a slammed stem. Come on folks, what the heck is wrong with running a few spacers on top? Another "looks dorky" discussion? Is it just me or are the most active sellers on this forum listing the sweetest high-end framesets the ones who usually slam the fork (those who ride a 56 know who I'm talking about :rolleyes: ).



Unless you think you are going to keep the frameset for yourself for a long time and not worried about aging, sheesh just cut the fork 2 cm higher and put on some top spacers. You will have a much easier time selling the frameset when it comes time for that.



Oh that felt good, thanks for listening!


Blame Velominati, rule #45 https://www.velominati.com


Slam your stem. A maximum stack height of 2cm is allowed below the stem and a single 5mm spacer must always – always – be stacked above. A “slammed down” stack height is preferable; meaning that the stem is positioned directly on the top race of the headset.

[boywander]

There are plenty of people who’s struggling right now. And there’s this rant about steer-tube cut too short from previous owner. You must be pretty well off. My bike is my prerogative. If I don’t want that chimney look then so be it. And if that day comes when I cannot bend down to reach the hood on the slammed stem then it’s my problem isn’t it.

That said there are steer tube extender available to accommodate your needs, this shouldn’t be a problem associating with the way it looks just as long as you’re happy with it.

Haha good laugh reading this thread..

Btw.. I have bikes with slammed stem and bikes with chimney and I can careless of what people think of how it look.

[Clean39T]

I have at times taken this to the extreme - not cutting anything off a new fork, just so I can go ride the frameset and see if it "works" before messing with it...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180421/611214ea250711654d406c2f09e35b59.jpg

I got some looks that day.

[d_douglas]

that's crazy. i buy bikes to ride and enjoy for myself, not curate for the next owner.

i would assert that if you are compromising some aspect of your bike in consideration of the next owner, you're doing it wrong.

IMO, of course.

I completely agree. I am also that person that preserves a few spacers out of caution, but I applaud those who are committed enough to chop that steerer :)

A bike is meant for the owner to ride as they like....

[d_douglas]

I have at times taken this to the extreme - not cutting anything off a new fork, just so I can go ride the frameset and see if it "works" before messing with it...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180421/611214ea250711654d406c2f09e35b59.jpg

I got some looks that day.

That'd be a stinger on the chest in a crash.

[cinema]

I have at times taken this to the extreme - not cutting anything off a new fork, just so I can go ride the frameset and see if it "works" before messing with it...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180421/611214ea250711654d406c2f09e35b59.jpg

I got some looks that day.

this the type of fred stuff we want to see. beautiful

[PacNW2Ford]

I have at times taken this to the extreme - not cutting anything off a new fork, just so I can go ride the frameset and see if it "works" before messing with it...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180421/611214ea250711654d406c2f09e35b59.jpg

I got some looks that day.

I think you are on to something here and missed an opportunity. You could have tried another bar shape or even flat bars by adding another stem!

[Clean39T]

I think you are on to something here and missed an opportunity. You could have tried another bar shape or even flat bars by adding another stem!

Sheldon you jest.

[MikeD]

this the type of fred stuff we want to see. beautiful


Flipping the bars upside-down would look better.

[charliedid]

Flipping the bars upside-down would look better.

Key West style!

Or this....always a solution to problem. Never fear the slammed stem!

https://archive-media-0.nyafuu.org/n/image/1493/66/1493662874131.jpg

[boywander]

I have at times taken this to the extreme - not cutting anything off a new fork, just so I can go ride the frameset and see if it "works" before messing with it...

I got some looks that day.

Haha.. you sure it wasn’t the jester hat on your head? JK

[KJMUNC]

Sheldon did it, so who are you to judge? :rolleyes:

btw, I came to this thread to be entertained.....I have not been disappointed

[thirdgenbird]

I completely agree. I am also that person that preserves a few spacers out of caution, but I applaud those who are committed enough to chop that steerer :)

A bike is meant for the owner to ride as they like....

Agreed. I typically cut my steel steerer tubes so there are no spacers above the stem. On my yeti, I kept one because I’ve got the stem slammed and I wasn’t comfortable having only enough room for a stem. Even changing the headset or stem can cause problems in that scenario. Add that it’s a cross frame that needs some form of a cable stop and you add all sorts of variables. In the end, I ended up with way more than needed. At least I won’t have to buy a fork if I decide to change things up. Alternatively, the fork could always see duty in a titanium frame or something else fun. turquoise and titanium sounds right if this frame ever gives up on me.

[charliedid]

Sheldon did it, so who are you to judge? :rolleyes:

btw, I came to this thread to be entertained.....I have not been disappointed

That is really something :)

[dbnm]

Winner of the best thread on paceline!!!

[tomato coupe]

The thing that really bugs me are really tall cyclists who buy large frames. There's nothing worse than finding a good used frame and then discovering it is a size 60. Why can't tall people just buy normal size frames and use a lot of spacers?

[tomato coupe]

Sheldon did it, so who are you to judge? :rolleyes:

btw, I came to this thread to be entertained.....I have not been disappointed

That's Team INEOS' bike for Paris Roubaix 2021.

[nobuseri]

I still don’t understand what the issue is.

Am I supposed to buy a bike and size it for the next person who buys it after me?

I am curious; OP, what is an acceptable amount of spacers under/over the stem?

[cgolvin]

I have at times taken this to the extreme - not cutting anything off a new fork, just so I can go ride the frameset and see if it "works" before messing with it...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180421/611214ea250711654d406c2f09e35b59.jpg

I got some looks that day.


Pretty sure that on Etsy you can buy a tiny flask to store a dram of whiskey in your excess steerer. Or, if not, there should be such a product

[tomato coupe]

I still don’t understand what the issue is.

Am I supposed to buy a bike and size it for the next person who buys it after me?

Yes. It might be your bike, but it's not about you.

[Dead Man]

i can totally empathize with the frustration, OP. but this topic goes no further than your own frustration.

[smead]

Amazing. I really couldn't have imagined all the hub-bub this would create. I think the OP conveys a sense of light-heartedness ("sheesh" "heck", and sarcastic faces), and like many rants, was off the cuff, but also trying to make somewhat of a point. If suggesting leaving 1-2 CM of spacers above a SLAMMED stem on a beautiful frameset that you know you might pass along some day is crazy self-centered humor of the year stuff, then wow this place is hard up for entertainment.

[charliedid]

Amazing. I really couldn't have imagined all the hub-bub this would create. I think the OP conveys a sense of light-heartedness ("sheesh" "heck", and sarcastic faces), and like many rants, was off the cuff, but also trying to make somewhat of a point. If suggesting leaving 1-2 CM of spacers above a stem on a beautiful frameset that you know you might pass along some day is crazy self-centered humor of the year stuff, then wow this place is hard up for entertainment.

Should I buy my kit two sizes too big just in case I get fat?

[boywander]

Should I buy my kit two sizes too big just in case I get fat?Hah..

Sent from my LG-M322 using Tapatalk

[MikeD]

Should I buy my kit two sizes too big just in case I get fat?


No because kits have a finite life and wear out.

[charliedid]

No because kits have a finite life and wear out.

But what if I get fat before they wear out?

[MikeD]

But what if I get fat before they wear out?


Then you ain't riding enough.

[palincss]

I can't count how many times I've seen a beautiful frameset, in just my size, for a good price, only to have the matching fork cut for a slammed stem. Come on folks, what the heck is wrong with running a few spacers on top? Another "looks dorky" discussion? Is it just me or are the most active sellers on this forum listing the sweetest high-end framesets the ones who usually slam the fork (those who ride a 56 know who I'm talking about :rolleyes: ).

Unless you think you are going to keep the frameset for yourself for a long time and not worried about aging, sheesh just cut the fork 2 cm higher and put on some top spacers. You will have a much easier time selling the frameset when it comes time for that.

Oh that felt good, thanks for listening!

Yes, that's an inherent defect in the threadless system.

[palincss]

The solution is to buy new
used is just what it is used
Cheers
I do not cut mine I always thought the fork was stronger with a couple of spacers the top

Or buy a system that doesn't require cutting off the steerer in order to fit the owner.

[charliedid]

Then you ain't riding enough.

I ride every day.

[tomato coupe]

But what if I get fat before they wear out?

No, no, no. You're missing the point. Someday you will donate your kit to Goodwill, and you need to consider whether the person who buys it is fatter than you.

[teleguy57]

I agree with the OP.
I would go further though.

First of all, why all the sizes and colors? I only ride one size, and only like black bikes. So, if they are planning to resell, keep that in mind.

Also what's with all the "minor scratches"? If they would just ride around in bubblewrap, they could sell it on the secondary market much easier.

So many fauxpas when people buy new bikes! Next time, consider my needs because I might just consider to look at an ad to maybe not buy that bike.

Yes.

I buy a bike for me; you buy a bike for you. If my bike isn't right for you, don't buy it.

Now can we get back to more important things about steerer length, like what kinds of spacers, how many, and what color work with a given aesthetic? :banana:

[cgolvin]

Should I buy my kit two sizes too big just in case I get fat?


No, you should buy kit two sizes too small as inventive to lose weight … then sell it NOS when you don’t

[Mike V]

Everyone needs to buy a 52/53cm bike for their next bike. Also don't go stealth. I would like to have something with color next time. PM me when your sell price is at least half the purchase price.

Ps don't slam

[colker]

What´s intriguing is how the OP´s irony is ignored and instead he is being taken srsly. Lol.

[colker]

No, you should buy kit two sizes too small as inventive to lose weight … then sell it NOS when you don’t

And write a rant on how buyers are lowballng an almost nos kit on the classifieds.

[charliedid]

No, no, no. You're missing the point. Someday you will donate your kit to Goodwill, and you need to consider whether the person who buys it is fatter than you.

Finally!

Someone has the guts to pull back the curtain and reveal the truth for all of us to see.

Thanks You.

[charliedid]

No, you should buy kit two sizes too small as inventive to lose weight … then sell it NOS when you don’t

Oh now I'm torn and confused.

Long legged version for bibs or regular?

[pdmtong]

Au contraire, Ryun's tendency to slam his stem has saved me thousands and thousands of dollars through the years. I'm incredibly grateful!

I feel the same way. Ryun's bar drop is just a bit too much for me. whew.

Speaking of bar drop, I have found that raising my bars any more than 1cm from my max drop feels way too high. I was very surprised my preferred bar drop range was so narrow at 1cm.

[Peter P.]

I'm with ya.

I cannot believe how many serial bike buyers will slam that stem and ride the bike a handful of times and then be confused why it won't sell.

Sure, the bike is for the original owner first and foremost and they can do what they want, but I also question fashion vs. function. I mean really, every single bike from every manufacturer dictated a slammed stem with zero spacers magically? All of a sudden every manufacturer gets your stack correct to the mm, accounting for different stems, bars, headsets, etc? I don't think so. Slammed is a lifestyle.

I agree. All of a sudden it JUST SO HAPPENS that everybody finds a slammed stem the fit they need. Nah; they're imitating those cool pro rider bikes. And for the record, I think those slammed stems on pro bikes with the ridiculous saddle-bar drops are just wrong. But even pro riders can be suckers for all this "aero" malarkey.

What´s intriguing is how the OP´s irony is ignored and instead he is being taken srsly. Lol.

Yeah; I get the OP's rant and take it with a touch of tongue-in-cheek. But I do agree that people who buy a bike, slam the stem, and cut off all the excess, are limiting their selling potential should the occasion arise. It's much like Speedvagens with their integrated seatmast. Beautiful frames but the seat tube length is cut for the first owner, and adjustment is limited when they try to sell. Again, not my problem.

[Waldo62]

Yeah but then you get to go buy new bikes, and that's the best gift of all.

Come on, you know that I buy bikes all the time, inflexibility or not...

[cmbicycles]

The thing that really bugs me are really tall cyclists who buy large frames. There's nothing worse than finding a good used frame and then discovering it is a size 60. Why can't tall people just buy normal size frames and use a lot of spacers?I hate when I find a nice used frame only to discover that it's a 60... and not big enough.

[mtechnica]

At least when you buy a bike with a slammed stem it saves you the trouble of cutting the steerer tube.

[Dead Man]

At least when you buy a bike with a slammed stem it saves you the trouble of cutting the steerer tube.

someone get this friend a beer.

/thread

[zero85ZEN]

Yoga, stretching and core strengthening. I’m 51 and ride 11+ cm of saddle to bar drop. I don’t think aging is inevitably tied to loss of flexibility. But it does require effort to maintain it.
I don’t leave much steerer above the slammed stem...usually a few mm. I’m not building my bikes for anybody but myself to ride.

[NHAero]

I felt very fortunate last year when Ari's Firefly came up for sale with a color matched painted fork and a couple of cm of spacers beneath the stem. Amazed that four owners previous to me hadn't cut the steerer to its minimum length. Replacing that fork with a like one that had a long enough steerer would have been a prohibitive cost. That said, I wouldn't ride around once my fit was dialed with too much spacer above the stem - even I have lines not to be crossed!

There's something to be said for threaded steerers and quill stems in this regard. There's a lot of latitude for changing one's fit over time if needed.

[pdonk]

When I had my bike built I specifically asked for a 1cm below and 5am on to so I could adjust over time - just in case.

Pretty much as soon as I got it I moved the 1cm to above the stem. With all the riding I've done this year, I'm considering slamming the stem, but am not sure about the aesthetics of that much steerer above the stem.

[stien]

And on the other hand, I’m one of the few here who can ride the Ryun fit. I’ll take the bullet guys.

[OtayBW]

And on the other hand, I’m one of the few here who can ride the Ryun fit. I’ll take the bullet guys.
For the record, I bought one of Ryan's bikes some years ago and spent 2 days trying to convince myself that I could 'cheat' the fit enough to make it work. After riding for a couple of weeks, I realized I couldn't and then bought a replacement fork.....:eek:

[C40_guy]

I can't count how many times I've seen a beautiful frameset, in just my size, for a good price, only to have the matching fork cut for a slammed stem!

Well, I know for a few of us, the slammed stem look comes from a measure none, cut once, cry twice situation.

It *was* the most popular response on the "bone-headed mechanical move" thread...

[jet sanchez]

I always think of the resale value whenever I do anything. House, car, bikes, everything.

[d_douglas]

No, no, no. You're missing the point. Someday you will donate your kit to Goodwill, and you need to consider whether the person who buys it is fatter than you.

ha ha - well done

[oldturd]

What's a Ryun fit look like?

[many_styles]

I always think of the resale value whenever I do anything. House, car, bikes, everything.


House I get.

For a car and a bike, I think my experience with it. Does it make me smile as I ride or drive it, or as I stare at it while sipping my coffee?

To be honest, if it garners that kind of happiness during my ownership, I don’t think it’ll be hard to sell, but it’s definitely not the first thing that comes to mind.

Different strokes for different folks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vincenz]

I don't care. I slam all of mine because it's for me, not for some future person. A 5mm spacer on top is the polite way to do it anyway, and that should be enough in case you need it.

I think all bikes should be slammed, anyhow. If you're buying a race bike, the right-sized bike should allow you to slam it. If you're not going as low as the geo allows, either the bike is not the right size or you need a different style bike. If you can't slam it, then get an endurance geo bike so that you can slam it.

Slam it.

:banana:

[pdmtong]

When I had my bike built I specifically asked for a 1cm below and 5am on to so I could adjust over time - just in case.

Pretty much as soon as I got it I moved the 1cm to above the stem. With all the riding I've done this year, I'm considering slamming the stem, but am not sure about the aesthetics of that much steerer above the stem.

having spacers above the stem IMHO is better than having spacers below the stem :-)

seriously, who cares? I left a few above my slammed stem in case my L5-S1 ever comes back (hasn't yet)

As for bar drop, it's an interesting how much our physiology varies. my saddle is 75cm and I ride with more bar drop than my friend whose saddle is at 81cm. Really depends on flexibility and torso and arm dimensions

[colker]

seriously, who cares? I left a few above my slammed stem in case my L5-S1 ever comes back (hasn't yet)

As for bar drop, it's an interesting how much our physiology varies. my saddle is 75cm and I ride with more bar drop than my friend whose saddle is at 81cm. Really depends on flexibility and torso and arm dimensions

Certain group rides won´t allow spacers above the stem.

[colker]

Originally Posted by jet sanchez
I always think of the resale value whenever I do anything. House, car, bikes, everything.

I never slam the door in my house.

[AngryScientist]

haha, my vehicle strategy has been to buy cheap and drive until the resale value reaches pretty much zero.

my last few trucks have reached the end of life and been donated since they had literally no resale value.

[Coffee Rider]

Certain group rides won´t allow spacers above the stem.

I hope you are joking about that. If not, is it any spacers are banned or just above a certain (reasonable) amount?

[Lionel]

Hilarious thread. Used bike resale value is ridiculous, slammed stem or not.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by jet sanchez
I always think of the resale value whenever I do anything. House, car, bikes, everything.

I never slam the door in my house.

:)

[barnabyjones]

There was a study in the Journal of Cycling Physiology about slammed stems. They concluded that the benefits of yoga for cycling fit are negligible and that 87.4% of cyclists who slam the stem on a race bikes are either registered to Weight Weenies, don't race or average about 5 hours per week on the bike. I don't recall the term they used but it was analogous to Freds. It may have been Coffee Shop Riders. There's also a correlation between stem slammage and very stylish and expensive cycling apparel. Not causation; stems don't compel the purchase of slim fitting, body conscious apparel because as mentioned, yoga and physical fitness are not associated with bicycle aesthetics.

[voir dire]

I hope you are joking about that. If not, is it any spacers are banned or just above a certain (reasonable) amount?

Like any other club it all depends on the stridency of the club bmocs vis a vis the docility of the common members. Some clubs are very extreme in maintaining "standards" and boat-rockers flaunting even a mere 1mm of spacer above the proscribed limits are quickly shown the door, good riddance and all that....

[reuben]

There was a study in the Journal of Cycling Physiology about slammed stems. They concluded that the benefits of yoga for cycling fit are negligible and that 87.4% of cyclists who slam the stem on a race bikes are either registered to Weight Weenies, don't race or average about 5 hours per week on the bike. I don't recall the term they used but it was analogous to Freds. It may have been Coffee Shop Riders. There's also a correlation between stem slammage and very stylish and expensive cycling apparel. Not causation; stems don't compel the purchase of slim fitting, body conscious apparel because as mentioned, yoga and physical fitness are not associated with bicycle aesthetics.

I think I read the same study, or at least an excerpt. I believe the term they used was "Cappuccino Cyclists".

[barnabyjones]

I think I read the same study, or at least an excerpt. I believe the term they used was "Cappuccino Cyclists".

Yes, that's correct! Which reminds me of one of the limits of the study. I believe there were issues with the population sample as the majority of respondents lived in Australia, the West Coast of the United States, Spain and Instagram.

[gbcoupe]

There was a study in the Journal of Cycling Physiology about slammed stems. They concluded that the benefits of yoga for cycling fit are negligible and that 87.4% of cyclists who slam the stem on a race bikes are either registered to Weight Weenies, don't race or average about 5 hours per week on the bike. I don't recall the term they used but it was analogous to Freds. It may have been Coffee Shop Riders. There's also a correlation between stem slammage and very stylish and expensive cycling apparel. Not causation; stems don't compel the purchase of slim fitting, body conscious apparel because as mentioned, yoga and physical fitness are not associated with bicycle aesthetics.

What did that study say about seat level. ;)

Just poking... whatever gets us down the road is fine by me.

[paredown]

I'n not going to criticize because when we were in our prime we were drilling holes in components to save "weight" (and critical components at that!).

It seems to me (geezer in training) there was a confluence--threadless stems, manufacturers deciding everyone could get by with S-M-L-XL frame sizes, a failure to consider that not everyone was a racer--and fashion--riding smaller and slammed.

So then you have manufacturers lengthening head tubes for "comfort" geo (so now you have a choice between two frames) everyone else struggling with swapping out stems where translating degrees to reach is a black art, fussing with spacers, and the permanence if you cut too short. And fashion, always fashion--where I think a number of people look ridiculous on their bikes, and 'aero' gains don't make up for bad weight distribution...

And people wonder why I miss the days of full size ranges in frames, quill stems and all that. Maybe even drilled components. Life was just easier--want higher--quill up. Want lower--quill down. Want precision--pick a different frame--sized by the CM.

I tell you; it worked better.

[barnabyjones]

I love these old-timey retro bikes. If I lived in England it's what I would ride!

[old_fat_and_slow]

I'n not going to criticize because when we were in our prime we were drilling holes in components to save "weight" (and critical components at that!).

It seems to me (geezer in training) there was a confluence--threadless stems, manufacturers deciding everyone could get by with S-M-L-XL frame sizes, a failure to consider that not everyone was a racer--and fashion--riding smaller and slammed.

So then you have manufacturers lengthening head tubes for "comfort" geo (so now you have a choice between two frames) everyone else struggling with swapping out stems where translating degrees to reach is a black art, fussing with spacers, and the permanence if you cut too short. And fashion, always fashion--where I think a number of people look ridiculous on their bikes, and 'aero' gains don't make up for bad weight distribution...

And people wonder why I miss the days of full size ranges in frames, quill stems and all that. Maybe even drilled components. Life was just easier--want higher--quill up. Want lower--quill down. Want precision--pick a different frame--sized by the CM.

I tell you; it worked better.

+1 You be preachin' to the choir BRO !

(Drillium was kinda stupid though.)

[reuben]

And people wonder why I miss the days of full size ranges in frames, quill stems and all that. Maybe even drilled components. Life was just easier--want higher--quill up. Want lower--quill down. Want precision--pick a different frame--sized by the CM.

I tell you; it worked better.

This. Cinelli XA quill is the ne plus ultra stem. Forever.

[reuben]

What did that study say about seat level. ;

It said get a Selle Italia Turbo, Selle San Marco Regal, or Selle San Marco Rolls. Level? Whatever.

[reuben]

Yes, that's correct! Which reminds me of one of the limits of the study. I believe there were issues with the population sample as the majority of respondents lived in Australia, the West Coast of the United States, Spain and Instagram.

West Coast
https://forums.thepaceline.net/picture.php?albumid=143&pictureid=670

Australia
https://forums.thepaceline.net/picture.php?albumid=143&pictureid=669

But - there's a precedent!!
https://forums.thepaceline.net/picture.php?albumid=143&pictureid=671

[soulspinner]

Having you considered doing some yoga?

:p:p:p:p

[soulspinner]

I'n not going to criticize because when we were in our prime we were drilling holes in components to save "weight" (and critical components at that!).

It seems to me (geezer in training) there was a confluence--threadless stems, manufacturers deciding everyone could get by with S-M-L-XL frame sizes, a failure to consider that not everyone was a racer--and fashion--riding smaller and slammed.

So then you have manufacturers lengthening head tubes for "comfort" geo (so now you have a choice between two frames) everyone else struggling with swapping out stems where translating degrees to reach is a black art, fussing with spacers, and the permanence if you cut too short. And fashion, always fashion--where I think a number of people look ridiculous on their bikes, and 'aero' gains don't make up for bad weight distribution...

And people wonder why I miss the days of full size ranges in frames, quill stems and all that. Maybe even drilled components. Life was just easier--want higher--quill up. Want lower--quill down. Want precision--pick a different frame--sized by the CM.

I tell you; it worked better.

Yes it worked better...way less " compromise".

[Toeclips]

Too old to slam
Not young to try

[Wookski]

There was a study in the Journal of Cycling Physiology about slammed stems.

You’re missing the point- highlighted by your obvious speed/ strength/ fitness (the SRAMano is a dead giveaway of a preference for performance > aesthetics). Regardless of performance and fit slammed stems always look better. Im surprised at how many people are afraid of slamming, most bodies will eventually adapt.

[R3awak3n]

You’re missing the point- highlighted by your obvious speed/ strength/ fitness (the SRAMano is a dead giveaway of a preference for performance > aesthetics). Regardless of performance and fit slammed stems always look better. Im surprised at how many people are afraid of slamming, most bodies will eventually adapt.

Not sure slammed stems always look better. I actually think a 5mm spacer under the stem looks the best. Slammed can look good but doesn't always.

I disagree that the body will eventually adapt, that depends on a lot of things and cannot be said in absolute. Some people need to slam so that is that but a lot do it for looks and because that is what the pros do and that is just silly.

[cinema]

Not sure slammed stems always look better. I actually think a 5mm spacer under the stem looks the best. Slammed can look good but doesn't always.

I disagree that the body will eventually adapt, that depends on a lot of things and cannot be said in absolute. Some people need to slam so that is that but a lot do it for looks and because that is what the pros do and that is just silly.

definitely. spacers are normal and 5mm at least. if i see someone with completely slammed stem i figure they do not plan on keeping the bike very long. what if the stem breaks or theres a recall or it sucks and you need something else with a different stack? or needs a new headset with a different stack? fit changes over time? a few spacers look better than none and means you’re actually thinking about the build now and in the future. you can always move the 5mm spacer to the top, in fact i remember lots of manufacturers recommending this in tech docs so as to not load the stem directly for whatever reason. i see some people out there where no spacers at all top or bottom. i figure it is vanity

[R3awak3n]

definitely. spacers are normal and 5mm at least. if i see someone with completely slammed stem i figure they do not plan on keeping the bike very long. what if the stem breaks or theres a recall or it sucks and you need something else with a different stack? or needs a new headset with a different stack? fit changes over time? a few spacers look better than none and means you’re actually thinking about the build now and in the future. you can always move the 5mm spacer to the top, in fact i remember lots of manufacturers recommending this in tech docs so as to not load the stem directly for whatever reason. i see some people out there where no spacers at all top or bottom. i figure it is vanity

absolutely vanity (and thats fine, their bike, their money, whatever). If the pros were putting 10mm of spacers that would be the thing to do. Don't pros, after they retire actually raise their handlebars a tiny bit?

[mdeth1313]

Just had this whole argument wrapped in with some other fit issues on another site.

If you're into sub - 700 gram frames they don't come with tall head tubes, so I have a decent amount of spacers on that bike. Thing is, I just figured out my whole position on it and I'm riding with the most comfort and able to put out a lot more power than I've ever done in the past. I've done rides of 116, 125 and at least 5 rides just over 100 miles all with faster times/speed than anything I've done over the past 4-5 years.

I posted a picture of the bike and it started:

1. Get rid of some of those spacers, you should be able to get lower.
2. Your old seatpost looks better, put that one on with a longer stem (completely ignoring what I had already said about needing more offset than the original post could provide for correct position/balance)
3. Too many spacers, an 80 mm stem is too short .

It's astounding. I think it's too much internet these days.

[rallizes]

@mdeth1313

what size is the bike? and what bike?

edit: answered in PM. thanks!

[kramnnim]

Maybe they used a stem that “needs” the steerer to be cut flush with the top so the top cap sits properly against the stem, like the Enve aero or PRO Vibe

[tomato coupe]

I have a (retired) Colnago frame hanging in my garage. It still has the original -17° stem without any spacers underneath. Does that make me vain?

[mdeth1313]

I have a (retired) Colnago frame hanging in my garage. It still has the original -17° stem without any spacers underneath. Does that make me vain?

No, but you could be vein:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YRU0B0iisc

[carpediemracing]

Tossing gasoline into the embers.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vYq5_L3FWK4/WmP2_O_7I-I/AAAAAAAAJkk/VgI8ceiFqZAt7bliPrDaZfIVP16lk45KwCLcBGAs/s800/20170915_Tsunami-Black-ISM-stem.jpg
Black bike with my least favorite wheels, set up for a training ride, 2017? It now has a first gen ISM saddle on it. I have a red bike with the same geometry (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-egA_eTUnX9c/XKGQVl2-MFI/AAAAAAAAJqA/gHmyjnjtLZIMpupQ4D6rL4grWOP0TYOvQCLcBGAs/s800/20190330_ChrisHinds-Bikes.PNG) / set up.

I'm not young, I'm not flexible at all, I'm not skinny anymore, I've had a bad back for decades. I don't train that much now but I did a lot before.

I also have weird proportions so my bike doesn't really reflect an aggressive posture - in fact I'd consider it pretty conservative. My back isn't that flat although I'm small on the bike (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TbmplkIYLx8/TU9e6IiOkJI/AAAAAAAADPU/zc0_UQlf9xM/s800/DSC_0772.JPG) (normally I'm not on the hoods but this is actually a short hill and I was redlined enough I didn't want to move my hands).

I don't cut the steerer all the way down because some stems have a higher stack height than others, and I don't want to be limited to stem options.

I definitely don't consider "the next owner" when doing stuff to my bike. I'm going to keep my bikes until they're done, and the custom geometry means a very limited used bike market.

Someone in car world said something about "not driving your car to save it is like not having sex with your gf to save her for the next guy". I thought that was pretty funny, esp since I bought a practically new, heavily modded, 24k mi car that was 14 years old (I drive it semi regularly in warmer weather; I got shamed into not driving it in the winter). The same applies for bikes, I suppose.

Obviously I have a lower stem also, but that's because my bike was initially fitted to me using a normal 12 cm stem with normal crit bend bars. When I went to compact, I had to go to a longer, lower stem to put the drops in the same place as before. Given the choice I'd have planned for a much shorter head tube so I could use an off-the-shelf stem to put the drops in the right place. But I had two identical-geometry frames built before I went to the compact bars.

Me on the bike, with the normal 12 cm stem, crit bend bars, first race on the bike (an "away" race so no race wheels), in Feb 2011. I was experimenting with a camelbak to eliminate bottles, decided bottles were better:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TbmplkIYLx8/TU9e586PpEI/AAAAAAAADPM/mfCKn9CJf0M/s800/DSC_0797.JPG

[mokofoko]

I don't like cutting steerers, and if I do I like to leave a healthy amount for spacers. I totally get wanting to have a bike setup perfectly for myself, but I like the idea of being able to pass a good bike along to another owner who might really enjoy it. Having a little extra steerer hasn't ever inconvenienced me any. And if it helps give a little extra life to a good fork (and makes someone else happy), all the better.


I've got 3 bikes equipped with F3 forks, and I honestly feel like it would be absolutely criminal to cut those steerers down any.

[cinema]

Obviously I have a lower stem also, but that's because my bike was initially fitted to me using a normal 12 cm stem with normal crit bend bars. When I went to compact, I had to go to a longer, lower stem to put the drops in the same place as before. Given the choice I'd have planned for a much shorter head tube so I could use an off-the-shelf stem to put the drops in the right place. But I had two identical-geometry frames built before I went to the compact bars.


interesting i never thought about how changing the reach and bend of handlebars could also potentially warrant a change at the steerer/stem. another reason to leave a bit of steerer on the bone depending on which direction you end up going.

[pdmtong]

I don't like cutting steerers, and if I do I like to leave a healthy amount for spacers. I totally get wanting to have a bike setup perfectly for myself, but I like the idea of being able to pass a good bike along to another owner who might really enjoy it. Having a little extra steerer hasn't ever inconvenienced me any. And if it helps give a little extra life to a good fork (and makes someone else happy), all the better.


I've got 3 bikes equipped with F3 forks, and I honestly feel like it would be absolutely criminal to cut those steerers down any.


F3 is a unicorn now. Chapeau to you for future considerations