Cold TOES

[onekgguy]

this sucks...i was on a 90 minute ride today in 9 degree weather and my toes froze. i was fine until about 70 minutes into my ride when i noticed that my toes were becoming numb frozen stubs and i got this feeling that i really needed to get home and warm them. every other part of me was toasty and could've continued on for quite a while. i'm using chemical heat pads under my toes and PI shoe covers. i'm at a loss as to what else i can do to protect myself.

what are those of you riding in these sort of temperatures doing to allow yourself to stay out longer than 90 minutes? maybe i'm stupid for expecting to stay out longer.

Kevin g

[Len J]

Winter shoes.

http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=SH0357

I wear them without covers down to about 30......below 30 I'll put shoe covers on them. Buy them a little bigger.....wear wool socks....don't tie them too tight to ensure good circulation.

I ride all winter in Maryland and never have problems with my feet.

Len

[Louis]

Is this a joke? 9 frigging degrees. What should one expect?

By the way, what Len said - get some winter shoes. This is one area where I have no problem paying the LBS premium. Call around and find the shop with the best selection of winter shoes (many don't even bother to carry them around here in St Louis; MN may be better). Take some wool socks along and see what works for you. Don't forget, tight is bad.

Louis

[DRZRM]

The thing I learned from snowboarding and running in the winter was thin socks so your shoes are not too tight. That said, I went through the painful defrost after an hour at ~19 degrees yesterday, so clearly I have not perfected the method either. Was thinking about either the Lakes CXZ 301s or the Sidi Hydros, but have not jumped yet.

lickbikes.com has several models, including last year's Sidi Winter Freezes for $199.

[Climb01742]

i have a 70-90 minute limit when its single digits or less. wool socks help me a lot. but no matter what i put on my feet or hands, there just seems to be a time limit, then things go numb. i just try to make the most of that time and remind myself that the basement is worse. :beer:

[onekgguy]

i have a 70-90 minute limit when its single digits or less. wool socks help me a lot. but no matter what i put on my feet or hands, there just seems to be a time limit, then things go numb. i just try to make the most of that time and remind myself that the basement is worse. :beer:

yeah, i think maybe the 90 minute cutoff is a good rule of thumb in single digit temps...it's just that the rest of me is able to continue so it sucks to have to pack it in. i'll check with my LBS and see what they've got in stock for shoes and maybe get some suggestions from others more experienced living in my area.

Kevin

[dirtdigger88]

I feel your pain . . . really

last weekend jthurow and I rode- my feet were so cold when I finished that I sat down at my computer desk trying to thaw them out-

lets say that I was able to find a pair of Sidi Freeze shoes and order them before my toes quit hurting-

Ill let you know sunday how they work

Jason

[Kevan]

at those temps, I wouldn't expect a miracle. Here's what I do, taught to me by NY's greatest of all winter riders. We know him here as Mikemets. Anyway, the answer is in those chemical heating packs purchased at any hardware store. Here is what I've found:

1- Open the packs 30 minutes to an hour before you get yourself ready. This will enable the chemical reaction to get fully underway and nice and hot before you even walk out the door. Those things stay warm for hours so even if you opened the packet 2 hours before the ride, all the better.

2- I use both toe and hand warmers for my feet on the coldest days. The foot pads get applied to my soxes under my toes and ball of the foot. Now to be honest these pads do little to help keep the tootsies warm; there simply isn't enough air in the shoe to keep the chemical reaction really active once your foot is in the shoe and bootie. But every little bit helps.

3- The hand warmer gets placed on the top of my regular everyday bike shoes, above the toe where the breathable fabric of the shoe is. I hold the hand warmers in place using my toe warmers (shoe covers). I then put my booties on over that.

4- I have tried the plastic bag trick too, putting your socked foot into and baggy and then into the shoe, but honestly I can't say there is much of an improvement. The toe warmers get even less air and your foot is likely to sweat some, which isn't the best thing to happen during winter riding. But it's an option.

That's all I know if you don't go the way of a winter shoe. There are battery powered insoles too to consider.

[merckx]

1. make sure your feet are warm before you begin your ride. take a hot shower before you leave if necessary. makes a big difference

2. airbloc socks a must

3. chemical toe warmers under toes and on top

4. very thin bootie over shoe

5. normal bootie over thin one

6. ride rollers

[DRZRM]

Hey Dirt,

Post a ride report when you get a chance, I hate buying stuff that does not work for me, but I'm thinking about the Freeze. Did you size up one? Let us know how they fit compated to the regular Sidi (if you use that shoe).

ZRM

PS Also, does anyone know if the Lake CXZ301 works with a Speedplay cleat? That looksl like a warm shoe!

[onekgguy]

...i like the idea of the chem pack over the toe between the shoe and cover...i haven't tried that.

Jason...i look forward to your review.

merckx...i've got a couple pair of the air block socks but i think they're overdue for the trash as i've worn holes in them. a new pair would no doubt help.

thanks all...

Kevin

[BarryG]

I definitely am on the peripheral circulation challenged end of the bell curve. What works for me in very cold weather are these layers:

1. Form a vapor barrier by wrapping your toes in a layer or two of plastic wrap (this may sound wierd, but it works. The Stephenson (http://www.warmlite.com/vb.htm) folks promoted vapor barrier use in extreme hiking back in the early 70's)
2. A thin wool liner sock
3. A wool bike sock
4. shoes and shoe covers

[93legendti]

Smartwool Adrenaline or DeFeet Blaze socks, Sidi winter shoes and toe covers worked for me 2 days ago on a sub 20 degree ride. Today it is around 10 so I will substitute PI booties for the toe covers. Nice wool socks and the Sidi winter shoes are the key...any covering over them will be sufficient.

[Len J]

PS Also, does anyone know if the Lake CXZ301 works with a Speedplay cleat? That looksl like a warm shoe!

I have speedplay's on mine & they work fine. You have to play a little when mounting the cleet.......I "carved" a little rubber on the walking cole to get them perfect.

Len

[stevep]

if i get chilled ill ride the rollers for maybe 20-25 minutes when i get home to get the core back up.
that said, i really never get cold on a mt bike...not as fast, less wind in the woods, much more other body activity than a road bike.

[coylifut]

People are really starting to concern me around here. Riding in single digits, 5 hour trainer sessions, publishing their power numbers in January. What ever happened to the weight room, rowing an erg, running, cross country skiing - all complimented by an hour or so on rollers here and there.

Since no one asked, here's your Dec-Feb training schedule

M - 45 minutes of circuit training followed by 15 minute of core work and 1/2 hour on the Erg

T - 1/2 hour of rollers am - 1 hour on Spinervals evening (1/2 hour of running can be substituted for morning or evening session)

W - 45 minutes of circuit training followed by 15 minute of core work and 1/2 hour on the Erg

TH - 1/2 hour of rollers am - 1 hour on Spinervals evening (1/2 hour of running can be substituted for morning or evening session)

F - 45 minutes of circuit training followed by 15 minute of core work and 1/2 hour on the Erg

Saturday - ride outside if you can for as long as you like. If you can't - skate or classic xc skiing works. If it's dry, but 9 degrees, take your cross bike (you do have one don't you) to your homemade cross course that forces a 15-30 second run every five mintues. 1/2 hour warm-up to the course, 1/2 hour on the course, 1/2 hour back. The running with the bike on the shoulder causes just enough friction to warm the feet. Go to the outdoor store and buy some cheap rag-wool hunting socks in the biggest size you can find for shoe covers since you'll be running a bit. When you get home, strip off the outer wear and do an hour to spinervals or your favorite tour stage.

Sunday - completely off and I mean completely. Spend the entire day with the family, cook them dinner, go to your house of worship, don't mention cycling, working out, bikes you want to buy, nothing.

There, you've got 10 hours in for the week. When spring rolls around the bod will be strong and well balanced and ready to go for the longer harder sessions. More importantly, your head will be screwed on tight and you'll be riding in August while everyone else is trying to figure out why their feet, knees and hips are giving out. I'm sure it had nothing to do with riding the trainer for 5 hours or cycling outside when it's 9 degrees.

[wasfast]

I've seriously wondered the same thing. I ride with a group here in Vancouver on Saturday's. Last weekend's ride was an out and back to Crown Point, around 65 miles with a 20-25mph headwind all the way up the gorge. I bailed around Troutdale and came back. This weekend, our leader is planning an 80-85 mile ride with significant hills. This sounds like a July-August ride in my world. 85 miles of hills in February?

....I thought it was just me:-)

[znfdl]

I wimped out this year and purchased the hotronic heated insoles for $165.

http://www.hotronic.com/

The rechargeable lithium battery lasts up to 14 hours. I have cycled for 5 hours in 20 degree weather with a light pair fo wool socks and a PI amfib booty with no problems. With the heat setting on high my feet were sweating, on the medium setting my feet were just a little bit warm and on the lowest setting my feet were just a bit cold, but not to the point of being frigid.

[coylifut]

I wimped out this year and purchased the hotronic heated insoles for $165.

http://www.hotronic.com/

The rechargeable lithium battery lasts up to 14 hours. I have cycled for 5 hours in 20 degree weather with a light pair fo wool socks and a PI amfib booty with no problems. With the heat setting on high my feet were sweating, on the medium setting my feet were just a little bit warm and on the lowest setting my feet were just a bit cold, but not to the point of being frigid.

I wouldn't call that wimping out, I'd call that an investment. My pal Christoph needs those.

[Karin Kirk]

I agree with coylifut! Nicely put!

One might argue that the hardest part of racing or riding fast is the mental toughness required to push yourself. So why drain yourself and suffer all winter, only to be out of gas when the time comes to actually push yourself?

Use the winter to recharge, re-balance and to prepare for the harder work in spring/summer.

And watch out for the perennial cold and damp toes - you can get permanent nerve damage in your toes even if they don't get frostbite. I like the idea of mixing it up with running or poking around the wetlands on a mountain bike. Warm and fun!

[Kevan]

we keep doing what we're doing:

http://www.smilieland.com/graphics5/SnoopyDancing2.gif


I lack discipline.

[dirtdigger88]

Hey Dirt,

Post a ride report when you get a chance, I hate buying stuff that does not work for me, but I'm thinking about the Freeze. Did you size up one? Let us know how they fit compated to the regular Sidi (if you use that shoe).ZRM



yes I sized up one size- and yes anyone considering these should do the same-

the sizing up isnt due to using larger socks- it due to the inner liner of the boot-

and yes- they fit exactly like my other sidis do-

the package just came to my office about 10 minutes ago

Jason

[DRZRM]

Not to speak for anyone else, but I have not raced anything in years, I ride for the sheer pleasure of it, and to stay in shape. I'll ride the trainer if I have to in the winter, but any day that I can be outside on the road, I will be. I see your point if you are trying to get into shape for racing season, but that's not me (even when I raced it was sports class MTB, road racing is not my bag). If my body needs me too, I'll take some time off, but as long as I can, I'll be outside. Thus...the need for warm feet.



I agree with coylifut! Nicely put!

One might argue that the hardest part of racing or riding fast is the mental toughness required to push yourself. So why drain yourself and suffer all winter, only to be out of gas when the time comes to actually push yourself?

Use the winter to recharge, re-balance and to prepare for the harder work in spring/summer.

And watch out for the perennial cold and damp toes - you can get permanent nerve damage in your toes even if they don't get frostbite. I like the idea of mixing it up with running or poking around the wetlands on a mountain bike. Warm and fun!

[chrisroph]

People are really starting to concern me around here. Riding in single digits, 5 hour trainer sessions, publishing their power numbers in January. What ever happened to the weight room, rowing an erg, running, cross country skiing - all complimented by an hour or so on rollers here and there.

Since no one asked, here's your Dec-Feb training schedule

M - 45 minutes of circuit training followed by 15 minute of core work and 1/2 hour on the Erg

T - 1/2 hour of rollers am - 1 hour on Spinervals evening (1/2 hour of running can be substituted for morning or evening session)

W - 45 minutes of circuit training followed by 15 minute of core work and 1/2 hour on the Erg

TH - 1/2 hour of rollers am - 1 hour on Spinervals evening (1/2 hour of running can be substituted for morning or evening session)

F - 45 minutes of circuit training followed by 15 minute of core work and 1/2 hour on the Erg

Saturday - ride outside if you can for as long as you like. If you can't - skate or classic xc skiing works. If it's dry, but 9 degrees, take your cross bike (you do have one don't you) to your homemade cross course that forces a 15-30 second run every five mintues. 1/2 hour warm-up to the course, 1/2 hour on the course, 1/2 hour back. The running with the bike on the shoulder causes just enough friction to warm the feet. Go to the outdoor store and buy some cheap rag-wool hunting socks in the biggest size you can find for shoe covers since you'll be running a bit. When you get home, strip off the outer wear and do an hour to spinervals or your favorite tour stage.

Sunday - completely off and I mean completely. Spend the entire day with the family, cook them dinner, go to your house of worship, don't mention cycling, working out, bikes you want to buy, nothing.

There, you've got 10 hours in for the week. When spring rolls around the bod will be strong and well balanced and ready to go for the longer harder sessions. More importantly, your head will be screwed on tight and you'll be riding in August while everyone else is trying to figure out why their feet, knees and hips are giving out. I'm sure it had nothing to do with riding the trainer for 5 hours or cycling outside when it's 9 degrees.

Well said my friend. Our 2 fixie sessions per week go hand in hand with the strength work.

[chrisroph]

I've seriously wondered the same thing. I ride with a group here in Vancouver on Saturday's. Last weekend's ride was an out and back to Crown Point, around 65 miles with a 20-25mph headwind all the way up the gorge. I bailed around Troutdale and came back. This weekend, our leader is planning an 80-85 mile ride with significant hills. This sounds like a July-August ride in my world. 85 miles of hills in February?

....I thought it was just me:-)

This is perfect if you want to win banana belt and be burned out by the time June rolls around. BTDT.

[KevinK]

I don't have winter shoes, so I use my regular road shoes. On cold days I slip a Subway sandwich bag over my shoes and then put on my size med. PI booties. On really cold days, I put a wool sock w/cutout over my shoes, then the Subway bag, then size lg. PI booties. I have two sizes of booties because my commuter shoes are bulkier than my road shoes.

It's also important to keep your core warm, because your body will restrict blood flow to your extremities if your core is getting cold.

Kevin

[coylifut]

Not to speak for anyone else, but I have not raced anything in years, I ride for the sheer pleasure of it, and to stay in shape. I'll ride the trainer if I have to in the winter, but any day that I can be outside on the road, I will be. I see your point if you are trying to get into shape for racing season, but that's not me (even when I raced it was sports class MTB, road racing is not my bag). If my body needs me too, I'll take some time off, but as long as I can, I'll be outside. Thus...the need for warm feet.

I should be banned for thread drift. Take care, stay warm, enjoy.

:beer: :beer: :beer:

[chrisroph]

I wouldn't call that wimping out, I'd call that an investment. My pal Christoph needs those.

Thinking about buying a pair..

[wasfast]

Back to the actual topic, I've been fortunate this winter to be able to keep my feet warm. I'm stil considering the hotronic warmers though. It's only the price the slows me down. A much better value I think than the Sidi's that just came out at a much higher price.

I've not had much success with the chemical warmers (under toes, on top of toes, on top of shoe under the booties etc). As soon as they get wet if it's raining they're worthless as well. I've been experimenting with them this winter to avoid spending the money for the hotronics.

[Karin Kirk]

Not to speak for anyone else, but I have not raced anything in years, I ride for the sheer pleasure of it, and to stay in shape. I'll ride the trainer if I have to in the winter, but any day that I can be outside on the road, I will be. I see your point if you are trying to get into shape for racing season, but that's not me (even when I raced it was sports class MTB, road racing is not my bag). If my body needs me too, I'll take some time off, but as long as I can, I'll be outside. Thus...the need for warm feet.

Sounds like a fine plan to me!
My point was more geared at the aforementioned folks doing marathon roller sessions, super long rides, intervals, or whatever during the winter.
I agree that riding for pleasure, riding outdoors and staying happy is the way to go.
Stay warm! :)