Not to be rude to our host....

[pdxmech13]

......however there needs to be a change in the quality of the home-page. I had told someone how great Serotta's are and gave the rundown of the bike that they should purchase. Mind you its only a $9,000 purchase but a big one non the less. I ask them to visit the web site to get more of a FEEL for what Serotta could offer him and who they are as a company. The next day he calls me back only to tell me how disappointed he was and that he hopes that "the quality and craftsmanship would greatly exceed their website". Mind you I really don't go to the home-page all that often so today I looked at all its glory and tried to understand Serotta's brand and image.

Ultimately I really am not sure that the website lives up to all the great work that is being done in Saratoga and I can only hope that some attention to detail and work on the site will happen in the near future. I realize this is a difficult thing to keep up on but I believe if you are a premiere business in any industry you have to reflect yourself well on your home-page. This was even more reflected in the new pictures of the Meivici. Come on guys and gals is this really the best you can do for an image of your flagship model. When the Attack pictures were first displayed I thought the photography was stunning and represented the bike perfectly and I had hoped that more great images of other bikes would soon follow. Obviously I was mistaken.

Any-who I hope this doesn't piss anyone off, but rather helps clarify ones expectations.

[William]

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism.....imho of course.





William

[Wayne77]

I looooooove Sacha's site. Gorgeous pictures, beautiful theme that underscores the Vanilla brand/image, and very well laid out

[Serpico]

here's a link on anti-aliased fonts

http://webdesign.about.com/cs/antialiasing/a/aa051898.htm

looks like some of this isn't an aliasing issue (see the cnbc logo, looks like it was just sized wrong on the 'news' page)
.

[Fixed]

bro they are busy building bikes ..not web sites imho
cheers

[shinomaster]

bro they are busy building bikes ..not web sites imho
cheers

That's why you hire a designer to do it. The Vanilla site is beautiful. He is a busy guy too...all those wee little ones.

[davids]

I agree that Serotta's marketing could be better, top to bottom. It's better than it used to be, but is still not up to the standards of their competitors'. Just one small example - Seven, IF, and all the big guys have their '07 catalogs available in late fall '06. Serotta's '07 catalog? Someday...

When I first started exploring the high-end market, I barely considered Serotta based on the marketing material I could find - Both Seven and IF captured my attention almost immediately.

Fortunately, Serotta sponsors this Internet forum thingy. Once I experienced this community, I was willing to put Serotta back on my shopping list. And once I rode the bikes, met Ben, etc. I ended up with a different opinion, of course!

But I still find their public face a bit bland and unfocused. They need a professional. I'll be part of a focus group!

[Hysbrian]

Here is where I think this all gets a confusing.
Serotta would have to decide if they need better marketing or if more marketing would undermine their product. Someone like Trek clearly markets their product, while company's like Serotta, IF, Sven, the marketing is in their product.

You don't see ferrari marketing their product. They don't have to. But that doesn't mean that they don't have to have information available.

[Serpico]

more logowear/swag whatever you call it

order 100 addidas track suits and have whatshisname's nana sew serotta patches on them

wool jersey--seven had them two years ago, everyone has them now

all the one-man shops have tons of cool wearables

when someone wears your gear it's free advertising

[Serotta PETE]

Constructive input is always of value, if for no other reason then to match it to your Home Page Objectives. By this I mean, "what is the objective of the home page?" From the above notes,

I gather that some would like to see:

- more pictures of the various models...
We have the forum where various posting of owners pride and joy are
published and discussed.
Additionally folks can ask questions about what "they are thinking for
there special bike.
Seven does not allow non owners on their forum or to see other owners
pictures...(This is not good or bad just different) But it does not make
the Serotta site poor quality either.
- As to Catalog - -- yes it could have been published earlier. But did it
stop anyone from from buying a frame? I do not know, but there is a
large dealer network out there to not only support potential customers
but furnish demo rides.

I have been in IT for over 20 years and have managed outsourcing engagements of major US company WEB infra- structures. The only reason i mention this is that I am goint to state "that based on BUSINESS and IT practices I do not find the site inferior or lacking on a macro basis."

Yes, I am very biased toward the company and the great folks that work for it, so my view is slanted at most times. Could the site be better - - hell, anything has room for improvement and hopefully we always strive for better.

Serotta has brought improvements to the industry in both design, product, and fitting. This is where they have chosen to invest the $$s they have for improvements.

The WEB site tells you about the product, what models there are, prices, material discussion, and other general info, such as dealer locations.

I agree that the HOME PAGE is important to SEROTTA marketing, but I do not think it is a detriment to their marketing. Folks want to know about the product but they also want a "hands on" before spending thousands of dollars. I am truly sorry that your friend was "put off" by the web site.

If you have recommendations on specific HOME PAGE improvements, I am sure that Ben and the gang would want to hear about them. Please feel free to send me your suggestion for WEB content and I will make sure they get to the right folks. pmckeon@bellsouth.net


I wish I could apologize for my "soap box" but I am very passionate about the folks at SEROTTA and the products they deliver. That does not mean that we should not always strive for better BUT it does not mean the "current" is inferior either.

PETE :beer:

[Steelhead]

Other killer sites:

Soulcraft
Sycip
Steelman
Moots
Ellsworth
Gunnar

And they all make cool logo wear. Sometimes I think the guys at IF are a little hip for even themselves. They try to hard to be "cool". But they make a sweet machine!

[Big Dan]

Pictures could be better, this is not only on Serotta's website.
Those fake white or black backgrounds reek.....
Get me some real pictures, with real people.

;)

[AgilisMerlin]

:crap:

HTTP://WWW.GiveSerottaAFrickinBreakYo.com Already


amerliN





next.


AmerliN

[CSIRider]

From any angle good marketing makes excellent business sense. That said, I am nonetheless, squarely in Fixed's corner on this. I'd rather Serotta staff continue to spend their time, energy, and resources on what obviously has worked for them so well for so long: building bicycles of such exquisite quality, that, to borrow a legal term "res ipsa loquitor," they speak so strongly for themselves they invariably rank high among the "master riders" - people in the know. These are men and women are quite adept - thank you - in distinguishing between marketing efforts, no matter how well-funded, and the experience-based, word-of-mouth endorsements of people who ride or have ridden these world-class bicycles.

[djg]

Seven does not allow non owners on their forum or to see other owners
pictures...(This is not good or bad just different) But it does not make
the Serotta site poor quality either.
- As to Catalog - -- yes it could have published been earlier. But did it
s:beer:

Well, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this facet of Seven's site and forum does make it worse. Sure there's a fan base here and respect for the sponsor's frames, a respect Serotta has earned. But this forum is for cyclists and cycling first. If it were just a "aren't we all special for buying the same kind of socks club" I'd be gone.

[AgilisMerlin]

:crap:



amerliN

[obtuse]

You don't see ferrari marketing their product. They don't have to. But that doesn't mean that they don't have to have information available.


yeah that $500 million dollar formula one program is done for for kicks.

obtuse

[AgilisMerlin]

a clear case of

post January holiday Depression going on here today.






amerlin

[bironi]

Without offense to the hosts of this fine site, I would agree that the promotional pictures of the Serotta frames on their home page is sorely lacking. I much appreciate the great service Serotta extends to the cycling community by allowing open discussion and great photos to be posted on Ben's forum. I might visit the home page to drool over the images there, if the images matched the clarity and closeups posted in the photo gallery.

Thanks Serotta for your generosity, but I think you are missing a great opportunity. Show us your finely engineered details.

Byron

[onekgguy]

serotta actually did spiff up their site and attracted more customers? thoughts of the dog actually catching the car or bicyclist come to mind...how do they handle the increase in demand for their product? do the folks at serotta want to become bigger? i guess i hadn't really noticed that the site was lacking. maybe i should look at some of the others to see what you're talking about. i think what's more important is the html coding behind the scenes as well as its indexing on search engines so that when people do an internet search on bikes the serotta name gets a high ranking.

Kevin

[Jason E]

I think there is a difference between saying the site is "lacking" and saying the site needs some Freshening.

They are in business, and should maintain their main exposure points that greet new customers. Changing their website will not increase their business by 50%, and if it did, well, I'd like to have those problems.

I have to agree that having a super hot Tease of the Meivici on the homepage only to open up to the Flagship model wearing Flashpoint clinchers and a Ultegra-ish compact crank with that saddle and geometry is less then sexy.

You want to show versatility of design, start with the white and put the other in a box to be blown up or opened in a different window.

The "freshening" argument is best brought to mind when you try to look at the Concours CX.... "Coming Soon"... for 2 years now.

Look, we all love Serotta, and some of us ride Serotta, so I do not think these comments are out of whack. I think it is friendly constructive bits all around.

Yadda yadda....

[Serpico]

...

Look, we all love Serotta, and some of us ride Serotta, so I do not think these comments are out of whack. I think it is friendly constructive bits all around.

...

exactly. well said.

[andy mac]

You don't see ferrari marketing their product. They don't have to. But that doesn't mean that they don't have to have information available.


hello...

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=ferrari-en

http://www.thescuderia.net/

:beer:

[bcm119]

I was going to say, give serotta a break. But, that Meivici picture is MP. Its one of the leading carbon frames in the world and its set up for a 70 year old dude in the marketing material? Doesn't make any sense.

[Climb01742]

redoing a website isn't a walk in the park. to do it right takes much thought, time, resources and dough. perhaps a redesign is in the works. or perhaps serotta is allocating their resources elsewhere for now. with a new sales dude, perhaps he's methodically going through things, improving other aspects of the biz first and will tackle the website later. i'd cut them some slack here. building great frames, supporting their dealers, and doing R&D are three pretty full-time jobs. a couple of our clients are dealing with web redesigns and lordy, it's a lot to bite off.

that said, improving the photography might be a good, manageable project. the bikes are certainly worth eye-candy treatment. but just to give folks an idea...a really great photo shoot, with a talented photographer, shooting all or most of their bikes, with all the backend retouching and futzing could easily run $50-100k, more if you wanted action shots outdoors with riders (especially at this time of year.)

these are the kinds of choices a company faces: $100k for drool-worthy pix, or $100k on R&D, or $100k on production upgrades, or $100k to pay employees more? (don't let serotta andrew vote on this last point.) :D

[Ahneida Ride]

The site is definitely lacking.

Sacha's site is simpler and much cooler and easier on the eye.
Serotta's site is just too busy.
Tons' more pictures. Sacha is picture centric, Serotta is text centric.
I perfer more Picts. One Picture is worth 1000 words.

[Serpico]

.
Rivendell has some great photography (although the new website is lacking, imo), Vanilla's does also. I doubt either dropped $100k on photography.

I don't think anyone is suggesting Serotta needs to hire Chiat Day or Annie Lebowitz.

Look at Dave Thompson's new pics of his Tournesol, look at Ray Dobbin's website.

Saying it's a zero sum game (ie, photos = r&d budget = employee salaries) doesn't wash. Serotta obviously has various people working for them already(webmaster, photographer, etc), all anyone is saying is to bring things together in a more coherent way. Vanilla's site is a great example.

We're just asking for more pics, more information, etc. Being a company with dedicated, loyal customer base asking for more information is a good position to be in imho.

Props to Serotta. Much respect to the banana.
.
.

[Climb01742]

i'm not fighting or arguing here. for a company, budget is a zero sum game. what goes here, can't go there. serotta and vanilla are very different companies, with very different business models, and very different budget buckets where money must go. for builders like vanilla, their website is their marketing. for serotta, and others of their scale, their website is simply a part of their marketing. often a small part.

and as far as what drool-worthy photography costs, annie lebowitz doesn't get out of bed for $100k. i said it could cost between $50-100k. and that's for photographers not nearly on a vanity fair level. a full line shoot, with backend retouching and digital files and prints and usage fees and travel and models (if needed), your jaw would drop. again, i don't mean to pick a fight at all. just trying to put myself in serotta's (cycling) shoes.

[Wayne77]

these are the kinds of choices a company faces: $100k for drool-worthy pix, or $100k on R&D, or $100k on production upgrades, or $100k to pay employees more? (don't let serotta andrew vote on this last point.) :D

I agree with most of what you have said, but with all due respects, I doubt Sacha paid 100K, or even 50K for the photo's on his site. I have nowhere near your expertise in this area, but there are bike photos posted on this forum that are much easier on the eyes than many of the pics on the home page. Many journeyman photographers with an eye for bike aesthetics could produce a large improvement. I do agree with earlier comments that a carbon bike that is supposedly one of the best in the world (if not one of the most expensive) deserves better treatment.

To others that have implied such, if it were an either/or proposition (which it isn't), yes, I would heartily agree that Serotta should focus on building bikes vs spending $$ on marketing materials. :beer:

[Serpico]

I guess I see a website as a diy extension of a company. I think Vanilla, Zank, etc are doing brilliant stuff and making their websites more "interactive", Richard Sachs is doing this as well with blogs, original articles/essays, reviews, team photos etc. How do one man shops have such badass websites, but a industry behemoth like Serotta not?

I don't think Serotta's position in the industry precludes them from having some diy content on their site. Think of it as the 'extras' section on a DVD.

There seems to be diy areas of Serotta's website that people are updating, creating ads on the frontpage and graphics for links, etc. I think you're talking about brand identity and larger things, I'm just saying "Show us the Meivicis you built this week". I'm saying buy an expensive digital camera and build some galleries. Show us the bike pr0n!

The references to Lebowitz and Chiat Day were both in jest.

It kills me the simple things that people in the cycling industry could do, but don't (typography is horrible in this industry, absolutely).

Checkout Hampsten/Tournesol, those are some sweet brand(s) with great design, great website(s), blogs, links to friends and creative people they respect, links to vendors they respect, thoughtful essays, shots from the shop, etc.

kirkframeworks.com is getting good. always had good photo galleries and lots of pics, now they're offering logowear and other stuff, Dave has some good articles up.

Sachs, Kirk, Zank, and any builder with a blog/pics--these guys get the reality tv show aspect of framebuilding--they understand the PROCESS and it's value to their clients.

Serotta might be different than the companies mentioned above, but they ARE trying to do parts of the site in house, and it isn't working. Anti-aliasing fonts is not a secret. It's been available for 10+ years and all you have to do is click a check box when you save an image.

btw, thanks for your expertise on the subject Climb--your perspective is always refreshing.

i'm not fighting or arguing here. for a company, budget is a zero sum game. what goes here, can't go there. serotta and vanilla are very different companies, with very different business models, and very different budget buckets where money must go. for builders like vanilla, their website is their marketing. for serotta, and others of their scale, their website is simply a part of their marketing. often a small part.

and as far as what drool-worthy photography costs, annie lebowitz doesn't get out of bed for $100k. i said it could cost between $50-100k. and that's for photographers not nearly on a vanity fair level. a full line shoot, with backend retouching and digital files and prints and usage fees and travel and models (if needed), your jaw would drop. again, i don't mean to pick a fight at all. just trying to put myself in serotta's (cycling) shoes.

[Steelhead]

I logged onto Soulcraft this am and saw that they have recently updated their site and it looks great. I have always loved their frames for road , cross and mtb. Their only downside in my mind is the owners condescending and almost rude tone in answering the FAQ section. Turned me off a bit.

[davids]

It kills me the simple things that people in the cycling industry could do, but don't...

bwt, thanks for your expertise on the subject Climb--your perspective is always refreshing.
I'm always struck by the grammatical mistakes made in cycling websites & catalogs - There is no excuse for a proofreader not to catch the difference between "its" and "it's"! :crap:

I'm disheartened by those here who think we're attacking Serotta. Let me be clear - I LOVE SEROTTA! I love their products; I love their confidence in sponsoring and tolerating this incredible forum; I love that they work with their customers and their shops to create community.

I just think their marketing could be better. I understand it costs money, and that there's a zero-sum game to be played. I understand that, with a network of dealers, their goals are different than Sachs or Vanilla or Kirk, who must use the web to get their brand out there.

But they are spending money on marketing, and I think it could be more focused, and that they could do a better job delivering their 'branding' message. Clearly, the 'lil guys aren't spending hundreds of K on their websites - but Sasha and Dave K. have created better websites, atmo.

That's my only point.

Now - who knows? - Maybe they've done their homework and made a conscious decision that this isn't a priority, and that their public face is exactly what they want. That doesn't change my opinion...

[stevep]

my take on the website.
for the slower 6 months of the year when the bill for the web hosting, etc comes due...ben thinks to himself..." why the 'ell am i paying for this anyway?"
andrew has to convince him to keep it going another month...

there are a lot of ad guys and assorted art guys , etc who come on here...who have a perspective...

as a small business person myself... dealing with this is an expensive pita.
you need to train staff and then pay them...you need to pay ansel adams to take the photos or guys complain about the quality of the photos and you need the customer service guys to do actual customer service in addition to this added task of breaking up fights between forum members...
you always need freakin hardware upgrades,
the software is always going out of date...
guys complain that its worse than the microsoft website even though they dont own a serotta...

its a no win imo.

let the poor guy alone.

[Ahneida Ride]

I'll take the Pictures !!!

For free !!!! Think Sacha's picts are perfect ?

[Wayne77]

No one is picking on anybody here - nothing wrong with a little constructive feedback from loyal customers. This is no different from forumites critiquing Serotta's decision to end production of the CSI, or their preference for slopers, or why the Meivici costs so much, or the dearth of those heads-up thingys, or the jersey design, etc etc etc. The existence of the forum shows that Serotta values the opinion of its customers and is open to critique - they pay employees to pay attention to what is said here. Thus the willingness of many to provide feedback without feeling like they're dissing on Ben, IMO.

my take on the website.
for the slower 6 months of the year when the bill for the web hosting, etc comes due...ben thinks to himself..." why the 'ell am i paying for this anyway?"
andrew has to convince him to keep it going another month...

there are a lot of ad guys and assorted art guys , etc who come on here...who have a perspective...

as a small business person myself... dealing with this is an expensive pita.
you need to train staff and then pay them...you need to pay ansel adams to take the photos or guys complain about the quality of the photos and you need the customer service guys to do actual customer service in addition to this added task of breaking up fights between forum members...
you always need freakin hardware upgrades,
the software is always going out of date...
guys complain that its worse than the microsoft website even though they dont own a serotta...

its a no win imo.

let the poor guy alone.

[Serotta PETE]

There is "LOTS" of talent out there which makes constructive discussion/input of great value to SEROTTA. The folks on this forum over time have offered some valuable input to SEROTTA, that others would love to have in their business. The "other" non cycling job of the forum members that pays for the cycling habit affords SEROTTA invaluable input.

There was a thread on here sometime ago that really got into the nitty gritty of WEB design by some VERY SMART folks (no not me - - it was way over my head).

I just looked at the SACHA site and it is outstanding in photo lust and quality.

Need to find out who the photographer is and see if they would like to come to SARATOGA :) :) ;)


No one is picking on anybody here - nothing wrong with a little constructive feedback from loyal customers. This is no different from forumites critiquing Serotta's decision to end production of the CSI, or their preference for slopers, or why the Meivici costs so much, or the dearth of those heads-up thingys, or the jersey design, etc etc etc. The existence of the forum shows that Serotta values the opinion of its customers and is open to critique - they pay employees to pay attention to what is said here. Thus the willingness of many to provide feedback without feeling like they're dissing on Ben, IMO.

[pdxmech13]

I LOVE SEROTTA and currently own two bikes from them that I have purchased in the last 2 1/2yrs. I have also been visiting this stinkin hole for close to 3-4 years know and have aquired knowlegde that I would have never gotten with the kroonies I work with. In starting this thread I knew that there would be a little controversy and this really wasn't my intention to get a bunch a yahoos wound up before the morning coffee and BM. I was simply stating quotes from customers and some personal concerns about the LOOK of the website. I understand that it is expensive and a lot of work to make a site look good. However Serotta is at the top of the pile for quality,craftsmanship, and R&D. The people that buy the product also are folks who spend lots of money on other nice well made things. I just don't believe that Serotta is marketing themselves here very well.

[SoCalSteve]

my take on the website.
for the slower 6 months of the year when the bill for the web hosting, etc comes due...ben thinks to himself..." why the 'ell am i paying for this anyway?"
andrew has to convince him to keep it going another month...
there are a lot of ad guys and assorted art guys , etc who come on here...who have a perspective...

as a small business person myself... dealing with this is an expensive pita.
you need to train staff and then pay them...you need to pay ansel adams to take the photos or guys complain about the quality of the photos and you need the customer service guys to do actual customer service in addition to this added task of breaking up fights between forum members...
you always need freakin hardware upgrades,
the software is always going out of date...
guys complain that its worse than the microsoft website even though they dont own a serotta...

its a no win imo.

let the poor guy alone.

I am a webmaster for my wife's website...It is actually VERY inexpensive to own a website and have it hosted...

That being said, it does take some labor to get it looking good and keeping it up to date.

As for pictures, there is Jeff Weir right under their noses who would probably do a trade for services, etc...And his bike photography is amazing!

We also have "Zip" of Zip and Zap fame who is a web designer. I bet she could do a fabulous job and work for trade as well...(I'm just assuming on all this)....

I always say, UTILIZE YOUR RESOURCES...Its all here under their noses, if they extended a hand out, I bet they could have something really sharp for the cost of a couple frames....

Just a thought (not sure how good it is).

Steve

[Serpico]

Replies like Pete's below is what makes Serotta cool. You know Ben and Co. "get it" when they put someone like Pete in charge of owner/customer relations.

Great reply Pete!

There is "LOTS" of talent out there which makes constructive discussion/input of great value to SEROTTA. The folks on this forum over time have offered some valuable input to SEROTTA, that others would love to have in their business. The "other" non cycling job of the forum members that pays for the cycling habit affords SEROTTA invaluable input.

There was a thread on here sometime ago that really got into the nitty gritty of WEB design by some VERY SMART folks (no not me - - it was way over my head).

I just looked at the SACHA site and it is outstanding in photo lust and quality.

Need to find out who the photographer is and see if they would like to come to SARATOGA :) :) ;)

[gt6267a]

i for one think the website is straight forward and easy to use. this is good. the design itself is not super flashy, but i don't care for that. i will agree that the photos on the website are stinkypoo. whether via barter or actually dropping a few dollars, they could be bike-porn-central which is probably all the customer who was disapointed with the serotta website wanted.

[obtuse]

i like serotta's website; it's informative and easy to navigate. but even if it was the worst site in the world what other website has a forum like this?

obtuse

[Kevan]

have ever purchased a Serotta without ever seeing one? I would image the percentage would have to be extremely low; 5% seems too high. The point here I'm trying to make is...almost everyone who buys a Serotta already has a pretty good understanding of the product's quality and looks.

Leave them poor folk alone.

[davids]

What percentage of Serotta buyers have ever purchased a Serotta without ever seeing one?

Leave them poor folk alone.
But how many never see one because they're underwhelmed with the marketing materials?

...and I don't consider the fine people at Serotta "poor folk". They can take this.

gt6267a,

"bike-porn-central" - There's a marketing vision statement I could get behind!

[Hysbrian]

yeah that $500 million dollar formula one program is done for for kicks.

obtuse

Yeah this was the KGSN cycling team when they rode serottas. I should have said that you don't see them running ads in car and driver. Which I guess would be the same as Serotta having an ad in bicycling.

Plus I never thought that their homepage was lacking. It was probably the person who was trying to find the information that was lacking something...

[stevep]

I am a webmaster for my wife's website...It is actually VERY inexpensive to own a website and have it hosted...

That being said, it does take some labor to get it looking good and keeping it up to date.


im thinking more about the employee costs... more than just the hosting.
the time... the time... the staff.
its relentless... today, tomorrow, the next day.
never a rest... poor andrew.'
poor ben...has to pay him.

[catulle]

i like serotta's website; it's informative and easy to navigate. but even if it was the worst site in the world what other website has a forum like this?

obtuse


+1. Besides, how many 20 y.o. will be buying a Meivici, atmo...?

[SoCalSteve]

im thinking more about the employee costs... more than just the hosting.
the time... the time... the staff.its relentless... today, tomorrow, the next day.
never a rest... poor andrew.'
poor ben...has to pay him.

All true, BUT (and this is a big but) once its up and running, unless you are making updates, its practically labor free.

Its the initial launch thats the big labor intense part, after that its just drips and drabs....

Its not ebay, its a pretty static website for the most part.

And, the beauty is, the infrastructure is already in place, just needs a bit of "tweaking".

Steve

[rpm]

A few random thoughts about the Serotta site:

1. Its strong points are that it gives you the information you need about models and navigation is relatively straightforward.

2. But buying a high-end bike is not just a rational, look-at-the-facts sort of decision. It's an emotional decsion as well. (Because bikes embody art, personal statements, means to experiences). And the current Serotta site doesn't do enough to engage the emotions. Choosing a top of the line builder involves building a relationship with the builder that's more complex than it might appear (case in point: the recent Pegoretti discussion)

3. Part of the relationship building is helping the customer (who in this case is better referred to as the client) develop a fantasy around the bike, such that the client can envision himself or herself doing great things on the bike (yes, my Legend will take me to Tuscany!).

4. Appealing to the emotions is done through both words and images. The words can do more to talk about the special care and craftsmanship that goes into the Serotta, and the things that people do with the bikes. And the photos need to show many more bikes in many more places. The Competitive Cyclist site does a good job of building the word fantasy, as does Rivendell, and now Hampsten, with some of dbrk's eloquent contributions.

5. I agree that this forum is special and speaks volumes about the company, but it could be more directly leveraged as a marketing tool. For example, to see the attached pictures, you must join the forum, which many prospective customers would be reluctant to do. Why not invite the people who've posted some great pictures of their Serottas on the forum and sung their praises to join a customer gallery, where their bikes can be shown and their stories told? You don't necessarily need great, expensive photography; you can use your customer base to give you many authentic and credible pictures. I have pictures of my Strong's in Carl's customer gallery, along with word pictures that do a little marketing. There are lots of people here who would be happy to do that for Serotta.

6. I don't know the mechanics of how Serotta maintains its site, but content management programs on outsourced servers have a lot to recommend them because they make updating really easy, and you are relieved of the burden of maintaining your own server.

7. Finally, it's easy to be seduced into developing a truly awful site that's all about flash introductions, jazzy effects, and artsy photos, while neglecting the basics of easy navigation and good, timely factual information. Sports equipment sites in general, and European sites in particular, tend to fall into this trap. Some of the European bike and component manufacturer sites are textbook examples of form over function. Again, the Competitive Cyclist site is a nice example of good form and function.

Again, though, great bikes, great forum!

[Serotta PETE]

Thanks for the great input.......

.I know that the lady who does the WEB is working on updates...I have seen some of her work and it is GOOD!!

Unfortunately this is only one of her MANY jobs........

this is VERY good info,

PETE (RPM - if you drink RED, come to OPEN house and have a glass (or two) with me.)

A few random thoughts about the Serotta site:

1. Its strong points are that it gives you the information you need about models and navigation is relatively straightforward.

2. But buying a high-end bike is not just a rational, look-at-the-facts sort of decision. It's an emotional decsion as well. (Because bikes embody art, personal statements, means to experiences). And the current Serotta site doesn't do enough to engage the emotions. Choosing a top of the line builder involves building a relationship with the builder that's more complex than it might appear (case in point: the recent Pegoretti discussion)

3. Part of the relationship building is helping the customer (who in this case is better referred to as the client) develop a fantasy around the bike, such that the client can envision himself or herself doing great things on the bike (yes, my Legend will take me to Tuscany!).

4. Appealing to the emotions is done through both words and images. The words can do more to talk about the special care and craftsmanship that goes into the Serotta, and the things that people do with the bikes. And the photos need to show many more bikes in many more places. The Competitive Cyclist site does a good job of building the word fantasy, as does Rivendell, and now Hampsten, with some of dbrk's eloquent contributions.

5. I agree that this forum is special and speaks volumes about the company, but it could be more directly leveraged as a marketing tool. For example, to see the attached pictures, you must join the forum, which many prospective customers would be reluctant to do. Why not invite the people who've posted some great pictures of their Serottas on the forum and sung their praises to join a customer gallery, where their bikes can be shown and their stories told? You don't necessarily need great, expensive photography; you can use your customer base to give you many authentic and credible pictures. I have pictures of my Strong's in Carl's customer gallery, along with word pictures that do a little marketing. There are lots of people here who would be happy to do that for Serotta.

6. I don't know the mechanics of how Serotta maintains its site, but content management programs on outsourced servers have a lot to recommend them because they make updating really easy, and you are relieved of the burden of maintaining your own server.

7. Finally, it's easy to be seduced into developing a truly awful site that's all about flash introductions, jazzy effects, and artsy photos, while neglecting the basics of easy navigation and good, timely factual information. Sports equipment sites in general, and European sites in particular, tend to fall into this trap. Some of the European bike and component manufacturer sites are textbook examples of form over function. Again, the Competitive Cyclist site is a nice example of good form and function.

Again, though, great bikes, great forum!

[rpm]

Hey, Pete--

I would love to lift a glass with you at an open house, showing off a new Ottrot! Little issues of budget, spouse, and the like are currently holding me back, but someday I hope I'll do that. Bike lust is a chronic and incurable condition!

Ron

[Serotta PETE]

you can bunk in my room...will bring a sleeping bag for you

:D ..YOU will have to put up with SPOKES though... (but he does not drink much red)

PETE

[Ahneida Ride]

Maintain a gallery of about 50 bikes,
Mostly customer frames/bikes.

I am sure that plenty would send in pictures.

Have a bike of the day or week .....

The stock photo's inspire no romance. Yuck !!!!
Now take a peek at Sacha's site for passion.
The site just needs to be touched up, not a major revamp.

[dwoodard]

One of the key things I explain over and over again to my clients (when integrating their online strategy into their overall business strategy) is they have to forget one statement they believe to be true. That statement is, "Because I build it, people will come."

I can't tell you how many customers I have worked with that never could see beyond that. Ultimately what happens is that while they get a message across, it does not convey their true identity, it is a shallow representation of the "spirit" of their product and their customers drift away due to a lack of engagement.

Whether companies (and people) want to admit it or not, the web has a huge impact on their business and their brand. Serotta's site did not make me want to purchase one of their bikes. Honestly, I was uninspired when I looked at it. What made me want to purchase the bike was the dealer (who I felt comfortable with and felt understood my goals) and this forum. What if I had not happened upon my dealer or never joined this forum? My guess is that I would now own a Seven, Look, Cervelo, Ridley, etc. Why? Because when I did my research online I found sites that helped me form that emotional element required for me to make an investment in the purchase of one of those frames. I was excited to go shopping and look at those frames. Ultimately, the Serotta was a happy accident.

It doesn't matter my age, if I am a tech geek, the industry I work in, etc. Instead, keep this one key item in mind. My buying and research habbits are an indication of where we are headed as consumers. These suggestions to Serotta, while a distraction from building frames, provide the opportunity for the emotional bond the consumer looks for before the sale as well as after.

My two cents.

[Serotta PETE]

Mr. Dwoodard that is good input and definitely worth more than 2 Cents......


Thanks PETE

Come to OPEN HOUSE for some red... :beer:

PETE

[pdxmech13]

There are some really exceptional writers here and all have expressed my thoughts much better than I could have ever done. I hope that some of what has been said goes to the top and a few changes here and there take place. Thanks again to Serotta for letting me post plain ol' garbage as I am truly grateful to have this resource.

[manet]

... Thanks again to Serotta for letting me post plain ol' garbage as I am truly grateful to have this resource..

[dwoodard]

Mr. Dwoodard that is good input and definitely worth more than 2 Cents......

PETE

You are too kind.

[Jason E]

They've already replaced the Meivici picture. I guess they do read the board. Now about those white bikes on white backgrounds.... :D

[petitelilpettit]

+1. Besides, how many 20 y.o. will be buying a Meivici, atmo...?

I might, if I happened to fall into, i don't know... maybe eleven grand in the next year and a half. I got time.

I like the points that are being made, and all hold truth. I like Ahneida Ride's idea of the "bike of the week". I think that would go over really well.

Pettit

[Serotta PETE]

The "white" M is now the HOME PAGE MODEL. I am sure that JAMES and Ms JACLYN had some to do with that....

THey are great folks and work hard in support of the product and customers.... :D

[sg8357]

They've already replaced the Meivici picture. I guess they do read the board. Now about those white bikes on white backgrounds.... :D

Time for Andrew to go to Home Depot for a new garage door. ;-)

Scott G.

[swoop]

soon there will be pictures of paris hilton doing lines off a meivici.
i thought i saw a few shots of jessica alba in bikini at some st barts resort with an ottrott. she was lubing the chain.

that's the website i want to see.. celeb gossip with bikes.

[Serpico]

.
imho, cranky framebuilders rock!

bg1 (http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Events/Cirque/2005/yard-party/gordon3.JPG)

bg2 (http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/tech/features/nahmbs061/Bruce_Gordon_orange_bike.jpg)

bg3 (http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/images/BruceGordonRando.jpg)

sincerely

I logged onto Soulcraft this am and saw that they have recently updated their site and it looks great. I have always loved their frames for road , cross and mtb. Their only downside in my mind is the owners condescending and almost rude tone in answering the FAQ section. Turned me off a bit.
.

[Fixed]

bro this site ain't mcdonalds ..if you want fancy web stuff go to trek or cannondale .
that is what i like about this it's kind of like coming in the back door .kinda folksy imho that is a good thing
cheers

[05Fierte TI]

Posted by Serpico .
imho, cranky framebuilders rock!

bg1


Who makes the fenders for the bike in bg1?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . to shoot some pics for Ben once the weather warms up. It's pretty ugly around here right now, but when spring hits there is no shortage of beautiful location right around Saratoga . . . You don't need a full film crew and thousands of $$, a la L.L. Bean, to get flattering photos. Just get some local owners together and take 'e, out on a ride.

BBD

[pdxmech13]

BBDave in the catalog may scare a few clients from ever thinking of riding a bike :banana: :banana:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I meant photographing other people riding Serottas. I was an award-winning news photographer, once upon a time . . . :rolleyes:

BBD

[pdxmech13]

:banana:

Mr 6,000 your still my hero :banana:

[BumbleBeeDave]

Shucks! . . . :p

BBD

[erikbrooks]

Posted by Serpico .
imho, cranky framebuilders rock!

bg1


Who makes the fenders for the bike in bg1?

Those are Honjo fenders. Venders like Jitensa and Velo Orange and other can supply them.

[neil h]

I am a webmaster for my wife's website...It is actually VERY inexpensive to own a website and have it hosted...

To be fair, cost = traffic+bandwidth+transfer. Serotta will be getting plenty of traffic thanks to this forum, the level of posting and browsing will keep the bandwidth highand every image posted adds to transfer volume totals. Believe me, I know...

[Serpico]

.
that white meivici is smokin'!
.