OT - distant TV reception via antenna

[smontanaro]

We're over in SW Michigan (Covert) for a few days at the beach house. We have a relatively modern TV, but just a stick-in-your-window "digital" antenna. I've noticed that the number of stations we can pick up varies dramatically from fewer than 10 to over 50. It seems to vary both by day and time of day. At the moment (mid-afternoon Saturday) I got nine. I've got the antenna propped up in the window looking west toward Chicago:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50151850643_e7d21ac5b0_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jpKkW4)

I'm not looking for solutions to improve reception (better antenna perched in a tree might be an obvious suggestion). I'm just curious about the variability in reception. I believe any Chicago broadcasts (essentially all we receive) are over the horizon, so I think the signal must be reflecting off something. What's going on with the signal en route to us? Any antenna engineers in The Paceline?

[wallymann]

has to do with atmospheric conditions, moisture, etc. certain condition cause distant radio-waves to refract so that signals that start out aiming above your head curve back down. the strength of that refraction can vary with weather conditions and the effect is also dependent on the frequency being transmitted. i'm sure an EE type can weigh in with the specifics.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sally_Garrett2/publication/305788876/figure/fig13/AS:667898750201859@1536250879420/Refraction-of-radio-waves-can-be-categorized-as-either-subrefractive-standard.png

[mcfarton]

Putting an antenna on the roof will make a huge difference. I didn’t care for the one that you could change the direction it was pointed with a motor. I found a website that told you what channels were in what direction from your address. I pointed a fixed antenna at DC and get plenty of channels regularly.


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[Hindmost]

There are some pretty cool websites that tell you exactly what direction and how far away the broadcasters are and how well you might receive them in your location. Might help one determine which signals likely be received.

[robt57]

Get a longer wire and put it on the gazebo thing so less bouncy bouncy...

[reuben]

I use a Mohu. It's would work a lot better if there weren't so many trees in the way, but I rarely use it. As mentioned, buildings, atmospheric conditions (e.g. rain), buildings, elevation, etc., will affect performance. Obviously some factors are constant but others are variable.

Here are a few antenna locators. They tell you where local antennas are located, etc.

https://www.antennasdirect.com/transmitter-locator.html

https://www.antennaweb.org/

https://www.tvfool.com/

[jlwdm]

I have a small antenna in my home office. If reception is poor on a network I want to watch I just move the antenna until I get reception. I think I am about 40 miles from the towers.

[Peter P.]

wallyman has it right.

Lower frequencies travel farther because they follow the curve of the earth better. Higher frequencies tend to travel more in a straight line from the antenna. Depending on the height of the broadcast antenna relative to your location, your antenna may not "see" the signal.

Signals will "bounce" off certain layers of the atmosphere, increasing their range. These atmospheric layers tend to vary, rising at night to effectively increase signal range, and decreasing during the day. There are also seasonal variations, as well as precipitation and fog can affect reception.

There is NO SUBSTITUTE for antenna height to improve reception. If you own the beach house and can do the work, install an external antenna as high on the house as possible. An omni-directional antenna would be the easiest to install and may meet your needs. To test, I would have someone hold an omni-directional antenna on a mast just outside that window and see how well it works. Once you prove the concept, mount it on the house.

The best option is to install a directional antenna and a rotor, to rotate the antenna in the direction of the TV transmitter.

If you don't have the skills or know-how to do such work, it's worth the money to hire a pro.

Channel Master makes a decent omni-directional antenna (https://www.channelmaster.com/OMNI_Omnidirectional_HDTV_Antenna_p/cm-3011hd.htm#reviewSection). See the reviews. I would mount it on an eave, or on a tripod on the roof. Don't mount it to a chimmey; wind loads shake the mast and eventually loosen the bricks. You can also mount it in an attic if available.

I'm an FCC licensed tech and antennas are my job.

[Buzz Killington]

What’s an antenna?

[verticaldoug]

I remember as a teenager in central Minnesota, once and a while on cold weather nights in winter, we'd pick up Chicago on the AM radio. Back then, Chicago was still cool compared to listening to the farm report on WCCO.

I always understood this to be from an inversion with cold weather trapped under warm air which reflected the AM signals back to ground

[reuben]

What’s an antenna?

Example.

[PSC]

We use a roof mounted antenna with a power booster to get Seattle stations in Tacoma. As a side note if you are getting a station and then lose it, it could be the station changed frequency, so you need to rerun your channel scan to pick up new frequency. I’ve had to do this a couple times.

[smontanaro]

I remember as a teenager in central Minnesota, once and a while on cold weather nights in winter, we'd pick up Chicago on the AM radio. Back then, Chicago was still cool compared to listening to the farm report on WCCO.

I remember listening to Wolfman Jack from the SF Bay Area as a kid at night when he was broadcasting from across the southern border (XERB) where FCC broadcast power limits didn't apply. I always thought it was only AM frequencies which could be affected by atmospheric conditions. Didn't they bounce off the ionosphere or something? I didn't think FM (or TV) could perform that same feat.

[Hindmost]

I remember listening to Wolfman Jack from the SF Bay Area as a kid at night when he was broadcasting from across the southern border (XERB) where FCC broadcast power limits didn't apply. I always thought it was only AM frequencies which could be affected by atmospheric conditions. Didn't they bounce off the ionosphere or something? I didn't think FM (or TV) could perform that same feat.

50,000 watts of soul power. Have mercy, baby.

The Wolfman was a thing. George Lucas must have heard him in Modesto; that's why he appears in American Graffiti.

[el cheapo]

Heard it on the X...ZZ TOP!

[Tommasini53]

I'm getting HD signals clearly from 65 miles away. The posters are correct, height matters. I used the following site for information and supplies. Denny is great about replying to questions. FYI, if you have a "cable" box on your house, simply run the antenna lead to the cable box and connect there. I'm happy to say that in my 55 years, I never subscribed to cable. :banana:
http://dennysantennaservice.com/

[mcfarton]

I did have to add a filter booster thingy that plugs into the wall. That made all the difference.


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[Mike Bryant]

I have a several year old Mohu Sky. It has a plug in power boost. Mounted it high up in the attic, out of sight and above aluminum foil sandwich insulated sheathing walls that blocks signals (cell too I think). Connects via coax so I just disconnected the cable and back fed it to all the cable connections in the house.


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