Scratches inside chain stay, first ride

[Herder]

Not sure how these happened? Is the cassette to close to the frame? There is a few mm gap. The scratch right beside the end of the cassette is a little bigger and go in more, can't fully see it in the pics

Not sure on that second bigger scratch, was thinking the chain but it wouldn't line up. Chains not to big, standard 110 links for the new campag

[robt57]

Sure it was not incurred upon wheel insertion??

[Herder]

Sure it was not incurred upon wheel insertion??

No, it wasn't during wheel insertion

[cinema]

flex? limit screws set properly? looks like the cog is sitting against the inner plate of the chain link instead of directly on the roller. which would indicate limit adjustment is pulling the upper pulley too far out. but could just be the angle of the pic

in the second pic the angle makes it look like the upper pulley is quite out of alignment with the cog teeth

[Hindmost]

Lovely frame, I'd probably be freaking out a little bit too. And chrome what a fine detail. BITD chrome was used on frames to deal with routine wear and tear, especially in the area of the chainstays and dropouts. In this case it appears the chainstay, where chain slap occurs, is chromed and the dropout is painted.

Can we see a picture of the entire bike?

[Herder]

flex? limit screws set properly? looks like the cog is sitting against the inner plate of the chain link instead of directly on the roller. which would indicate limit adjustment is pulling the upper pulley too far out. but could just be the angle of the pic

in the second pic the angle makes it look like the upper pulley is quite out of alignment with the cog teeth

Limit screw was set properly I believe. I'll redo it. The first 2 pics have bad angles so I added extra pics to be able to see it better.

Something must be off. I also experienced vibration first ride. Was gonna ask about that until I noticed this

[fijichf]

Did you fully tighten the cassette lock ring?

[Herder]

Lovely frame, I'd probably be freaking out a little bit too. And chrome what a fine detail. BITD chrome was used on frames to deal with routine wear and tear, especially in the area of the chainstays and dropouts. In this case it appears the chainstay, where chain slap occurs, is chromed and the dropout is painted.

Can we see a picture of the entire bike?

Yeah looks like it was chromed and paint on top. A lot of extra paint in that are. Just doesn't look right after one ride

[OtayBW]

Bent derailleur hanger?

[yinzerniner]

Limit screw was set properly I believe. I'll redo it. The first 2 pics have bad angles so I added extra pics to be able to see it better.

Something must be off. I also experienced vibration first ride. Was gonna ask about that until I noticed this

The vibration is very concerning. Was the chain routed through the derailleur jockey wheels correctly? Some RDs have intermediary tab or flange between the upper and lower jockeys that the chain can rub and get caught on if not threaded in the proper manner. Ask me how I know! ( aka bike budge)

[Herder]

Lockring on tight. Hanger is built in

[Herder]

The vibration is very concerning. Was the chain routed through the derailleur jockey wheels correctly? Some RDs have intermediary tab or flange between the upper and lower jockeys that the chain can rub and get caught on if not threaded in the proper manner. Ask me how I know! ( aka bike budge)

It was routed correct. The record RD has a big tab. Can't miss it.
The only thing I am not sure of is the A screw. I think I followed there manual correctly.

Anyway let me try again. First time doing Campagnolo. I've done quite a few Shimano bikes with no issues.

Don't know if it's anything to do with the horizontal dropouts? I used the screw so it's aligned half way up the dropout

[many_styles]

That’s my fear with having paint close to drop outs, and the bottom bracket area.

On my upcoming build, I’m def going with a raw finish in these areas, and use paint in others.

Hopefully you’re able to figure out the source of this.


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[Mark McM]

The scratches could possibly be from the chain while shifting. A bicycle's gear shifting system is quite primitive, literally yanking the chain (derailling it) off of one sprocket, and shioving it toward the adjacent sprocket. The chain generally catches the teeth of other sprocket quickly, but there will always be a portion of the chain that is neither here nor there, and may ride up over the top of the teeth, and could momentarily contact the dropout.

(There's a reason why Frank Berto's book on the history of the derailleur bicycle is called The Dancing Chain (https://www.cyclepublishing.com/cyclingbooks/dc.html). Particularly on earlier designs, the chain can dance about a bit on its way from one sprocket to the next.)

[cinema]

if horizontal drop outs be sure you are using internal cam skewers. shimano or campy. not saying this is causing your problem and you likely are already aware of the issues with modern skewers and non-vertical drop outs. extreme flex and wheel pulling will happen if not. like i said i'm sure you probably know this but just reiterating.

(obvious stuff make sure freehub is all the way pushed into the hub body if it's something like a 240s. lockring good, spacers in right area, dropout spacing is proper.)

[weisan]

rock chip or some kind of debris kicked up from the road....

[Herder]

if horizontal drop outs be sure you are using internal cam skewers. shimano or campy. not saying this is causing your problem and you likely are already aware of the issues with modern skewers and non-vertical drop outs. extreme flex and wheel pulling will happen if not. like i said i'm sure you probably know this but just reiterating.

(obvious stuff make sure freehub is all the way pushed into the hub body if it's something like a 240s. lockring good, spacers in right area, dropout spacing is proper.)

I'm using the campag skewers that came with the Zondas. Do I need to do them up extra tight?

[robt57]

Let's see the whole bike. Color is #baller, bet the bike is too!!

[Herder]

Let's see the whole bike. Color is #baller, bet the bike is too!!

Sorry not home. It's a colnago master and it does look sweet. Just trying to avoid any more damage. Although I expect issues in this area

[cinema]

I'm using the campag skewers that came with the Zondas. Do I need to do them up extra tight?

i think they're good to go. maybe it's unrelated to your ride and it was damaged by pulling the wheel forward or back with the chain on. or some kind of debris. what i would do is tape that area with painters tape. maybe 2 layers. ride it. see if its marking. make sure dropout screws are even and wheel is straight.

next, unrelated, tape that little area where the housing on the RD meets the frame eventually it will create rub.

[e-RICHIE]

You have a compatibility issue that’s causing the squeeze. Those dropout castings, and probably the frame too, were designed long before 12 speed transmissions were an option. That many cogs places the first one perilously near the frame. To remedy this, either a washer (spacer) is added to the inner bearing face OR a more up to date casting is used.

ps

arrange disorder

;);):cool:
:cool::cool::)
;);):p

[Herder]

You have a compatibility issue that’s causing the squeeze. Those dropout castings, and probably the frame too, were designed long before 12 speed transmissions were an option. That many cogs places the first one perilously near the frame. To remedy this, either a washer (spacer) is added to the inner bearing face OR a more up to date casting is used.

ps

arrange disorder

;);):cool:
:cool::cool::)
;);):p

Ive seen many of these frames with 11 speeds on with no issues but I see what your saying. Very little clearance

Is there flex when I ride? I have the bike in the stand right now and I'm aggressively throwing it to tht bottom chain ring and I can't see anything wrong. Also trying the 3 shift right to the bottom and still look good

[e-RICHIE]

Ive seen many of these frames with 11 speeds on with no issues but I see what your saying. Very little clearance

Is there flex when I ride? I have the bike in the stand right now and I'm aggressively throwing it to tht bottom chain ring and I can't see anything wrong. Also trying the 3 shift right to the bottom and still look good

Not enough clearance.

[Hilltopperny]

I have had it happen when my bottom bracket was a little loose causing the chain to rub the inside under load. May be worth checking out?


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[fignon's barber]

A lot of good feedback here. Three other things to check:
Did you measure the rear spacing to be exactly 130mm?
If you are new to Campy, the peening of the chain is new as well. Be sure that the links move freely.
Is the lockring used the one that came with the cassette? 11 tooth and 12 tooth are different.
Once you figure this out, don't be bummed about the scratches, adds to the history of your machine.

[mktng]

Looks alot like mine. I've put alot of kms on this bike though. The damage seen is most definitely, at least for me, wheel removal and reinstallation. Cleaning/transport or anything.

Sucks. But it's signs of use. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200726/cca8ce930ed6ff2e0f22171ec1dbeb67.jpg

[djdj]

This ^. It looks like there is (barely) enough clearance. Assuming your lower limit screw is preventing the chain from going past the small cog, then I don't see how you would get any rubbing from the chain while riding.

[duff_duffy]

As someone else mentioned, you could throw small washer in there. Real mechanics may say otherwise but did it on mine before to buy a bit of space and worked fine. Probably through stuff a bit out of line but I could not tell and had the space I needed.

[Big Dan]

You guys sprinters?
I never use my 11 or 12 whatever gear.

[Herder]

I have had it happen when my bottom bracket was a little loose causing the chain to rub the inside under load. May be worth checking out?


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Not sure if this is my issue but the drive side cup came loose. Thanks for bringing this up.

I tightened it up but only lasted 15km. The thread locker that comes with the cup is completely gone

[Hindmost]

Outboard Ultra Torque bottom bracket cup came loose? Those come with a bit of thread compound on them and they're usually installed with grease applied to the threads. With proper torque they should stay put.

(Was the bottom bracket faced?)

[cinema]

that is about how much clearance i have on my 90s colnago with campy 10s. when the frame was built it was probably 8sp. where does one place the spacer?

[oldpotatoe]

Not sure if this is my issue but the drive side cup came loose. Thanks for bringing this up.

I tightened it up but only lasted 15km. The thread locker that comes with the cup is completely gone

Italian threads and the BB shell MUST be faced to ensure the two BB 'faces' are parallel. Then, grease and teflon tape on the cups and make sure they are TIGHT, installed with a proper, good fitting tool. Don't use glue, use a faced BB shell, grease, teflon tape and TIGHT.

[Hilltopperny]

Not sure if this is my issue but the drive side cup came loose. Thanks for bringing this up.

I tightened it up but only lasted 15km. The thread locker that comes with the cup is completely gone


Sounds like you found the culprit to me! Hopefully you won’t have anymore issues!


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[Big Dan]

Oops Italian threads.....again.

[oldpotatoe]

Oops Far Superior Italian threads.....again.
FIFY

:)

Just a joke, don't go all ballistic

[jpw]

It looks like chain on paint.

[Big Dan]

FIFY

:)

Just a joke, don't go all ballistic

Do me a favor and don't play with my quotes.

Ok?