OT:Espresso Machines - Manual/Lever

[William]

So I'm have an itch to get another machine. I don't mind repairing/refurbishing if it is a good quality machine. That said I've always wondered about manual machines. Cool retro aesthetic, but having never worked one are they worth the little bit of extra work to pull a good shot? We don't steam a lot here, mostly just pull straight shots, sometimes add a little milk.

An inquiring mind would like to know.:)






W.

[William]

Btw, not that it's a necessary thing, just getting the itch to try something else out. Even with my Seaco, a really good commercial grade burr grinder, fresh beans, and a naked non-pressurized portafilter, I've got it dialed in and I'm pulling some really good shots...


:banana:



W.

[Andreas]

https://www.olympia-express.ch/en/products/cremina

[William]

https://www.olympia-express.ch/en/products/cremina

Nice machine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=150&v=H71HXxe_qSU&feature=emb_logo







W.

[Tickdoc]

Totally Not what you are asking, but my wife and kids surprised me with this little gem for Father’s Day. It is not the one I was looking for but I have fallen in love with this little machine. Fast, easy, clean, makes a perfect cup and perfect froth every time.

https://assets.wsimgs.com/wsimgs/ab/images/dp/wcm/202012/0759/img56z.jpg

[William]

Totally Not what you are asking, but my wife and kids surprised me with this little gem for Father’s Day. It is not the one I was looking for but I have fallen in love with this little machine. Fast, easy, clean, makes a perfect cup and perfect froth every time.

https://assets.wsimgs.com/wsimgs/ab/images/dp/wcm/202012/0759/img56z.jpg

Nice! I haven't ruled anything out, just looking at options and was also curious about manuals.

Does that run a pressurized portafilter?


W.

[echappist]

Btw, not that it's a necessary thing, just getting the itch to try something else out. Even with my Seaco, a really good commercial grade burr grinder, fresh beans, and a naked non-pressurized portafilter, I've got it dialed in and I'm pulling some really good shots...


:banana:



W.

That's probably the most important component in your set-up. I have a so-so burr grinder and a more expensive machine, but I constantly get uneven extraction and sprays. This actually wasn't an issue a few years ago, but it happens a lot more frequently now. I think for better consistency, I probably need a better grinder.

Which segues into the discussion re: lever machines. One really needs everything as dialed-in and consistent as possible, b/c the manual pulling introduces more variables. So in that regard, you should be set to use lever machines.

[Tickdoc]

Nice! I haven't ruled anything out, just looking at options and was also curious about manuals.

Does that run a pressurized portafilter?


W.

I’m not qualified enough to answer that. I leave all that to Gail:

(Btw, I was ready to return this machine until I saw this review)

https://youtu.be/WJByklLa1ps

[9tubes]

It depends on what you're looking for and your budget. The Pavoni machines have a difficult time with temperature stability. The trend over the past 15 years or so has been to carefully control temperature to improve shot quality. On that basis I'd suggest an e61 machine with PID temperature control. If you don't steam much you can save a bit by using a single-boiler machine like:

www.chriscoffee.com/collections/single-boiler-espresso-machines/products/quick-mill-alexia-evo

That machine also gives the option of flow control, the greatest development since precise temperature control.

If budget is an issue, the Rancilio Silvia is still the best bang for the buck around, but with some tradeoffs:

www.chriscoffee.com/collections/single-boiler-espresso-machines/products/rancilio-silvia-m

[Gsinill]

So I'm have an itch to get another machine. I don't mind repairing/refurbishing if it is a good quality machine. That said I've always wondered about manual machines. Cool retro aesthetic, but having never worked one are they worth the little bit of extra work to pull a good shot? We don't steam a lot here, mostly just pull straight shots, sometimes add a little milk.

An inquiring mind would like to know.:)






W.


We have the upgraded “Professional” version and love it.
We bought it during our first vacation 20 years ago in Tuscany.
Works great and has been our only coffee maker until this spring when we got one of those built in Miele appliances as part of a kitchen remodeling project.
The Miele is fantastic and helps if you have folks over i.e. need to make more than 1 or 2 lattes or cappuccinos but I still use the La Pavoni a lot.
Just a great ritual to start the day...

Needs a $30 rebuild (seals and gaskets) every year or so but it’s easy and actually something I don’t mind doing.
There is literally nothing other than the heating element and the seals that can break, I am sure mine will outlive me and my wife.

Long story short, if you are a “mechanical” guy and don’t mind the little maintenance it requires, get one.
If you’re not in a hurry you can probably find one that needs new seals on CL relatively cheap.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200725/76270912644bca136742cefb0379f0fd.jpg

[grawk]

I've got a www.decentespresso.com de1plus and a niche zero grinder. I'm REALLY happy with that combo, tho it's as far from a lever machine as you can get.

[earlfoss]

I own a La Pavoni Professional. It's maybe ~20+ years old and works just as good as when it was new... Well, I bought it cheap off EBay and it was in need of a total overhaul which was actually a fun and quick process. I use it every day. Yes, it needs a good cleaning. That's on my to-do list :)

Mins hasn't had problems with temp stability or anything like that. It always produces excellent espresso. I think that the lever machines maybe require a little more attention to how finely ground the beans are, but not having had any other machine, I can't say if this is true.

Only maintenance required is to replace gaskets every 2 years or so. Even then a full regasket isn't required, just need to do the ones in the group head.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200725/061a259606e36fa50a88b750146e19ba.jpg

[jkbrwn]

I've got a www.decentespresso.com de1plus and a niche zero grinder. I'm REALLY happy with that combo, tho it's as far from a lever machine as you can get.

You are James Hoffman? ;)

Kidding. Nice set up!

[Steve in SLO]

I have a La Pavoni like earlfloss and agree with what he said. I made a few rotten shots with it before I got myself dialed into it, but it has been great since.
I like to think of it like an old Silca floor pump: a classic that needs a little maintenance and performs steadily over the years. It may may not be as quick as sexy as the latest, but a great workhorse especially for traditionalists.

[William]

Just something about those levers machines...so mechanical.:)



The search is on...





W.

[mtechnica]

Just something about those levers machines...so mechanical.:)



The search is on...





W.

I beat you to it. I found a cheap la pavoni professional that I think is 220v as a fixer upper because of this thread. Wish me luck lol

[Tim Porter]

We've had our Olympia Cremina for almost 34 years now and it's going strong with only some gasket changes here and there over that time, though I have upgraded the handles and the cap, plus the steam wand. The initial outlay is sorta stratospheric ($3,400 today), but divide that very conveniently over the time span during which we've been using it and you could have some killer espresso for $100/year, so far. It's a big expense that some might call crazy, I admit.

It's very satisfying to get the grind dialed in and then you learn the proper resistance and speed to produce the espresso. They're quite simple and impressively built Swiss machines. The steam wand makes great steamed milk for cappuccino, btw. Temps are stable. You do need a good grinder to work with. Good luck with your search!

[echappist]

There's also the Profitec 800. Dual boiler with PID (thus resolving some of the temperature instability found on La Pavonni machines)

https://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/2_profitec-pro800.png

[William]

I beat you to it. I found a cheap la pavoni professional that I think is 220v as a fixer upper because of this thread. Wish me luck lol

Nice!:cool:

Refurbish and ride report please!!:banana:






W.

[William]

There's also the Profitec 800. Dual boiler with PID (thus resolving some of the temperature instability found on La Pavonni machines)

https://www.home-barista.com/forums/userpix/2_profitec-pro800.png

I would love to try one of these babies, but alas Mrs William is not a coffee geek like me so unless I found one needing a rebuild (which I like to do actually) it's not in the cards.

"You paid HOW MUCH for a coffee machine?!!?!":D








W.

[fmradio516]

I just inherited this baby from my FIL. Moving in a few weeks so it's going in a box to be moved and then doing a thorough cleaning on it. It's not dirty but I'm obsessed with keeping the internals of things like this clean.

I can't wait till he gets sick of his Kamado Joe [emoji846]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200726/6e00fa588f2118cc0c67a1fbed4e2fb8.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grawk]

You are James Hoffman? ;)

Kidding. Nice set up!

He's copying me, tho his gear is newer...

[mtechnica]

Nice!:cool:

Refurbish and ride report please!!:banana:






W.

Will do. It might take a while because I’m not sure what I’m going to have to do to it. It appears to be a 1993-1997 professional model missing a couple parts and it has a euro plug which means it is probably 220v. I’m going to wait to get it before I try to order any parts for it. I’ll order what it’s missing, a rebuild kit, and change the element and power plug. It was $300 so hopefully I don’t have to sink too much into it.

[froze]

Or for $300 you could get the Flair Pro 2 mechanical espresso maker: https://www.flairespresso.com/pro

When you get ready for a real manly coffee, try Turkish coffee, you'll never go back to espresso once you tried that stuff...if you can handle it.

[benb]

That's probably the most important component in your set-up. I have a so-so burr grinder and a more expensive machine, but I constantly get uneven extraction and sprays. This actually wasn't an issue a few years ago, but it happens a lot more frequently now. I think for better consistency, I probably need a better grinder.

Which segues into the discussion re: lever machines. One really needs everything as dialed-in and consistent as possible, b/c the manual pulling introduces more variables. So in that regard, you should be set to use lever machines.


I've been wondering about this.. how often we start with so-so grinders and when they get upgraded we don't think about that we're comparing a so-so unit that may have lost consistency due to wear with a brand new more expensive one.

All it takes is a little bit of wear and a tiny amount of wobble in a burr.

[mtechnica]

Yeah I need to get a real grinder too. Too bad they’re so expensive lol.

[echappist]

I've been wondering about this.. how often we start with so-so grinders and when they get upgraded we don't think about that we're comparing a so-so unit that may have lost consistency due to wear with a brand new more expensive one.

All it takes is a little bit of wear and a tiny amount of wobble in a burr.

You know, that's a good point. Burrs do wear out, after all.

Personally, I just can't be arsed with spending extra money on it, even though new burrs are quite cheap.

Then again, I should still have a ways to go before needing new burrs. Recommended replacement is 500-1000 pounds of coffee beans processed; I'm at maybe 360 pounds (and that's being generous).

[flying]

There's also the Profitec 800. Dual boiler with PID (thus resolving some of the temperature instability found on La Pavonni machines)



That is one I also looked at long & hard years ago. I ended up with a profitec regular dbl boiler but at the time I really wanted either this Pro800 or the Bezzera Strega

Watch this video at 6:50 when Jim takes a sip.....Very funny as it looks as if he almost passes out with delight at the flavor of that shot :):)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9OUNXVLY_o&feature=youtu.be

Also more videos on same machine
https://www.home-barista.com/reviews/bezzera-strega-second-look-t18933.html

[Kentf14]

I ran a La Pavoni EPC-8 Europiccola daily for about 25 years before changing over last year to a Rocket R58. I honestly had a hard time making the decision to switch as I absolutely loved the La Pavoni.
Few words of wisdom echoed by others.

There is definitely a learning curve w the machine. It takes some time to learn how to grind and tamp "just right" to get a decent shot/crema.
Quality beans make all the difference
You absolutely need a good burr grinder or your espresso will be garbage. I went w a Rancilio Rocky doserless after using a Capresso model for years. The Rancillio made a world of difference.
This is an important one. The La Pavoni is only good for 2 shots and a pitcher of milk. After this the machine and group head are way too hot and you cannot pull another shot even if there is water remaining in the machine. On top of this, it's unsafe to try and open the tank to add more water while it's hot. 2 shots only!

If you're cool w the above, you simply can't beat the full analogue experience w the Europiccola. While it's not for everyone, it is something that you should try at least once if you're any kind of coffee geek.

[William]

I have a line on a La Pavoni, stay tuned.


In the meantime this just popped up on the local CL. Just posting here because I don't want to start a new thread and it's...ah....different.:)

AnZa Espresso Machine




W.

[benb]

You know, that's a good point. Burrs do wear out, after all.

Personally, I just can't be arsed with spending extra money on it, even though new burrs are quite cheap.

Then again, I should still have a ways to go before needing new burrs. Recommended replacement is 500-1000 pounds of coffee beans processed; I'm at maybe 360 pounds (and that's being generous).

Burrs are one thing.. the other moving parts can wear too and create wobble.

I had some hand grinders.. the burrs never really had any noticeable wear but the other parts wore like crazy and messed everything up.

I give people a hard time here for megabucks level coffee gear but I think the big electric grinders people tend to have here are probably better choices... you go over to reddit and there's like a religion espousing the holy word of cheap hand grinders. The electric ones seem to almost always be an inherently more stable design with less chance the burrs move in and out of alignment.

Easy to forget people produce massive torque and not on-axis compared to an electric motor producing lower torque at way higher RPM... same problem as bottom brackets.

[froze]

Yeah I need to get a real grinder too. Too bad they’re so expensive lol.


They don't have to be expensive to get a great grind. I use the Hario Skerton grinder it works great, only cost $35; the other great option is the Silva Manual Coffee Grinder Hand Coffee Bean Grinder, only cost $30; both of these use Ceramic Burrs, both get high reviews across the internet, both will do what only a very few grinders will do and that is Turkish grind.

Fancy grinders are really nice, sure, but will you taste the difference between a $35 grinder and a $350 grinder? I highly doubt it, it's a lot like people claiming a tire they use on the bike is extremely fast, it's all BS and in their heads; people spend a lot of money on something think they got the best and all others are fails when that simply is not the case in some cases. Now if you have some sort of high-end designer kitchen, and you need to keep that presentation, then maybe you need a very expensive grinder to display.

[mtechnica]

Who knew picking a coffee grinder could be so difficult?

so far this seems like the best deal:

https://www.amazon.com/Baratza-Sette-30-Conical-Grinder/dp/B075G11F9N/ref=asc_df_B075G11F9N/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=216554116525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14563231218128640391&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9060388&hvtargid=pla-361589236013&psc=1

[9tubes]

There are many blind taste tests that show a grinder can make a big difference, particularly for espresso.

The Sette seems to get top reviews for a lesser-expensive grinder. The only common complaint is that it's noisy. Moving up from there, the Niche Zero gets top marks, and that's about the limit of what you need to spend for home espresso. Beyond that and it's about grinder longevity or bragging rights rather than taste.

[mtechnica]

There are many blind taste tests that show a grinder can make a big difference, particularly for espresso.

The Sette seems to get top reviews for a lesser-expensive grinder. The only common complaint is that it's noisy. Moving up from there, the Niche Zero gets top marks, and that's about the limit of what you need to spend for home espresso. Beyond that and it's about grinder longevity or bragging rights rather than taste.

Baratza was selling refurbished varios for $300 so I bought one. And a hand grinder to mess with because I’ve decided to take my aeropress to work.

[grawk]

People I trust rave about the ultra grinder. A coffee shop in Austin is starting to sell them in the us:

https://levercraftcoffee.com/collections/frontpage/products/levercraft-ultra-grinder

[mtechnica]

People I trust rave about the ultra grinder. A coffee shop in Austin is starting to sell them in the us:

https://levercraftcoffee.com/collections/frontpage/products/levercraft-ultra-grinder

Seems like a bargain at a mere $2200

[LongtailRider]

I've got a www.decentespresso.com de1plus and a niche zero grinder. I'm REALLY happy with that combo, tho it's as far from a lever machine as you can get.

I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Niche Zero. How do you like it? I really like the aesthetic and I already load my grinder one dose at a time.

[William]

Brought home this lever at a very good price today. Seals replaced less than a year ago. Owner demonstrated pulling shots, steaming milk, and making lattae art (on the back deck with proper distancing protocols :) ). He kept the tamper though so I need to get a 51.5mm tamper (need) and a bottomless portafilter (want) before I start pulling the lever.

So soon, very soon, I shall pull the lever!:banana:






W.

[mtechnica]

Nice pickup!

[Manolom21]

And I thought I was drinking the good stuff with my Clooney sponsored Nespresso machine[emoji23]. That machine just looks tasty!

[mwynne]

Gorgeous!

I'm currently trying to make the most out of a Rok GC. Seems like I need a better grinder to go with it for now...

[Louis]

He kept the tamper though so I need to get a 51.5mm tamper (need)

https://www.etsy.com/shop/Mussatampers?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=567977549

[William]

https://www.etsy.com/shop/Mussatampers?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=567977549


Oh man, you are going to get me in trouble!!!;):)






W.

[mtechnica]

https://www.etsy.com/shop/Mussatampers?ref=simple-shop-header-name&listing_id=567977549

Gonna pretend I didn’t see this. Mine is in the mail still and I don’t know what it needs yet.

[William]

Gorgeous!

I'm currently trying to make the most out of a Rok GC. Seems like I need a better grinder to go with it for now...

Yeah, a good grinder is going to an integral part of pulling a good shot with that ROK (or really any espresso maker).




W.

[mwynne]

Yeah, a good grinder is going to an integral part of pulling a good shot with that ROK (or really any espresso maker).


Given budget, space, and the amount of use our filter grinder gets, I'm leaning towards a manual grinder since it will see much less use. Got a short list, just trying to weight pros and cons... (Kinu Phoenix, 1zpresso JE-Plus or JX-Pro)

[mtechnica]

Given budget, space, and the amount of use our filter grinder gets, I'm leaning towards a manual grinder since it will see much less use. Got a short list, just trying to weight pros and cons... (Kinu Phoenix, 1zpresso JE-Plus or JX-Pro)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B083LKPG7L?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

[Gsinill]

Brought home this lever at a very good price today. Seals replaced less than a year ago. Owner demonstrated pulling shots, steaming milk, and making lattae art (on the back deck with proper distancing protocols :) ). He kept the tamper though so I need to get a 51.5mm tamper (need) and a bottomless portafilter (want) before I start pulling the lever.

So soon, very soon, I shall pull the lever!:banana:






W.

Congrats, you'll like it!

Might not apply to yours since you mentioned the PO demo'ed steaming and frothing milk.
Mine, with the original 3-hole nozzle had a hard time to produce the same kind of froth you get with a commercial machine.
It just seemed like it did not produce enough steam pressure and stem volume.
This is also the reason folks are selling 1-hole nozzle tips on eBay.

I changed mine from 3 to 1-hole and it is day and night...

[William]

Congrats, you'll like it!

Might not apply to yours since you mentioned the PO demo'ed steaming and frothing milk.
Mine, with the original 3-hole nozzle had a hard time to produce the same kind of froth you get with a commercial machine.
It just seemed like it did not produce enough steam pressure and stem volume.
This is also the reason folks are selling 1-hole nozzle tips on eBay.

I changed mine from 3 to 1-hole and it is day and night...


I've seen a couple of videos about this, and trying the machine out this morning I concur, I'm not a fan of the 3 hole tip. I pulled a half way decent shot on the first go but I'll still need to practice with this to get it dialed in.

<edit> The plastic tamper that comes with these really sucks, but I wanted to give it a go anyway. To temped to play with it while I'm waiting for a proper, correct sized tamper to arrive.




W.

[William]

Given budget, space, and the amount of use our filter grinder gets, I'm leaning towards a manual grinder since it will see much less use. Got a short list, just trying to weight pros and cons... (Kinu Phoenix, 1zpresso JE-Plus or JX-Pro)

The Ultimate Hand Grinder Showdown!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn9OuRl1F3k

I saw this pop up in my video travels this morning.





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[mwynne]

The Ultimate Hand Grinder Showdown!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn9OuRl1F3k

I saw this pop up in my video travels this morning.


I watched that earlier in the week ;) I'm currently mining the braintrust in the home-barista.com forums

[jpritchet74]

I'm close to pulling the trigger on a Niche Zero. How do you like it? I really like the aesthetic and I already load my grinder one dose at a time.

I absolutely love my Zero Niche!

[mtechnica]

Don’t sleep on the one I linked, it’s every bit as good as more expensive hand grinders. Everyone seems to have latched one to that one brand and they’re all sold out anyways.

[William]

I quick reminder to new La Pavoni lever pullers..."IT'S HAWT!! (www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeSwrFKFNFw)"

I was pulling the lever and resting my other hand on the top of the fill knob, relaxed my fingers which then touched the top of the steam/frothing bar...Whoa...that's hawt!!!:) Not burned or anything, just a quick reminder that much of this machine gets quite hot.:)

PS: Getting better even without a proper tamper...which is on the way.





W.

[mtechnica]

The good:

- It's indeed a professional, it was sold as a europiccola. I was correct in identifying the model and approximate age.

- It's in OK condition. Definitely not like new but overall fairly clean and seemingly undamaged.

The bad:

- It's 230v but I thought it probably was. Need a 110v element.

- It's missing the grate but I knew that already.

- It's missing the portafilter which I was 50/50 on since it wasn't pictured but also wasn't mentioned as being missing. I guess that means I'll just get a bottomless portafilter now so not really a big loss.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50193978997_b816e05f9f_b.jpg

[donevwil]

I absolutely love my Zero Niche!

Just received mine Monday, what a piece of machinery. Thank you for the detailed review that convinced me to buy one.

[William]

The good:

- It's indeed a professional, it was sold as a europiccola. I was correct in identifying the model and approximate age.

- It's in OK condition. Definitely not like new but overall fairly clean and seemingly undamaged.

The bad:

- It's 230v but I thought it probably was. Need a 110v element.

- It's missing the grate but I knew that already.

- It's missing the portafilter which I was 50/50 on since it wasn't pictured but also wasn't mentioned as being missing. I guess that means I'll just get a bottomless portafilter now so not really a big loss.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50193978997_b816e05f9f_b.jpg


Nice!:cool:


Here are a few other sites to throw your money at...:D

https://coffee-sensor.com/product-category/la-pavoni/

https://www.espressocare.com/products/la-pavoni-home-machines/10/P20

https://www.bplus.biz/categories/la-pavoni-lever-machine-owners





W.

[Gsinill]

The good:

- It's indeed a professional, it was sold as a europiccola. I was correct in identifying the model and approximate age.

- It's in OK condition. Definitely not like new but overall fairly clean and seemingly undamaged.

The bad:

- It's 230v but I thought it probably was. Need a 110v element.

- It's missing the grate but I knew that already.

- It's missing the portafilter which I was 50/50 on since it wasn't pictured but also wasn't mentioned as being missing. I guess that means I'll just get a bottomless portafilter now so not really a big loss.


In case you can't find one, there is a guy in Hungary that makes them in exchange for your 230V one.
PM me if you need more info.

[mtechnica]

Nice!:cool:


Here are a few other sites to throw your money at...:D

https://coffee-sensor.com/product-category/la-pavoni/

https://www.espressocare.com/products/la-pavoni-home-machines/10/P20

https://www.bplus.biz/categories/la-pavoni-lever-machine-owners





W.

Thanks for the links!

[mtechnica]

In case you can't find one, there is a guy in Hungary that makes them in exchange for your 230V one.
PM me if you need more info.

I've found one, but it's a single element and mine oddly, is a dual element with a single switch. I think it will still work though? I'm not sure but I think on this one it's wired so the low power element is on when it's plugged in.

I'm considering just wiring on a U.S. plug and seeing what it does as-is, but also ordering a 110v element in the meanwhile.

EDIT: I think it might actually be a thermofuse not a secondary element...

[William]

Interesting Campy upgrade...:)





W.

[Louis]

Can't be the zip-tie, I have them all over the place on my bikes.

[William]

Can't be the zip-tie, I have them all over the place on my bikes.

Of course, only the best Campy zip-ties for my LP!!!






W.

[Pastashop]

Given budget, space, and the amount of use our filter grinder gets, I'm leaning towards a manual grinder since it will see much less use. Got a short list, just trying to weight pros and cons... (Kinu Phoenix, 1zpresso JE-Plus or JX-Pro)


I’ve tried to buy one of the fancy grinders, but everything unavailable. Finally settled for the available option — been using a 1ZPresso for about two months now. It grinds through the dose with incredible efficiency. 30 grams in about a minute, very little retention. The grind settings are easy to dial in, stays very consistent. It’s easy to take apart and clean, but no real need to. Has 3 quality bearings. Easy to hold and load... will hold up to 4 scoops of beans. I’m mostly doing Aeropress, but like an occasional Turkish and filter.... Recommend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mwynne]

I’ve tried to buy one of the fancy grinders, but everything unavailable. Finally settled for the available option — been using a 1ZPresso for about two months now. It grinds through the dose with incredible efficiency. 30 grams in about a minute, very little retention. The grind settings are easy to dial in, stays very consistent. It’s easy to take apart and clean, but no real need to. Has 3 quality bearings. Easy to hold and load... will hold up to 4 scoops of beans. I’m mostly doing Aeropress, but like an occasional Turkish and filter.... Recommend.

I've got a JX-Pro being delivered today! For the cost difference between that and JE-Plus, I think I can deal with the slightly less posh JX-Pro for my given uses.

[mtechnica]

It’s too early to declare victory but I did get a chance to test the machine.

The other day I cleaned the inside with espresso machine cleaner. Yesterday the bottomless portafilter and grate showed up in the mail, along with the seal kit, etc... I’m ignorant about this machine but it seemed like it didn’t do anything weird so I tried to use it without rebuilding it.

The first shot was a huge mess. When I lifted up the water, liquid started coming out. I bailed and turned the grinder to a finer setting then tried again. It only leaked a little this time and produced a shot in ~10 seconds which I have read was too short. It tasted sort of questionable but it was almost drinkable.

Then I switched to fresher beans, ground even finer, and went from 12 to 15 grams. I tamped it HARD. This time, no leaks when the lever was up. Pulled a 30 second shot with solid resistance. Decent crema (I think?). And best of all it tastes great! So then I steamed some oat milk and made a... well I’m not sure what you’d call it but there was about 6oz of steamed milk.

I’m going to try messing with it more this weekend.

[William]

It’s too early to declare victory but I did get a chance to test the machine.

The other day I cleaned the inside with espresso machine cleaner. Yesterday the bottomless portafilter and grate showed up in the mail, along with the seal kit, etc... I’m ignorant about this machine but it seemed like it didn’t do anything weird so I tried to use it without rebuilding it.

The first shot was a huge mess. When I lifted up the water, liquid started coming out. I bailed and turned the grinder to a finer setting then tried again. It only leaked a little this time and produced a shot in ~10 seconds which I have read was too short. It tasted sort of questionable but it was almost drinkable.

Then I switched to fresher beans, ground even finer, and went from 12 to 15 grams. I tamped it HARD. This time, no leaks when the lever was up. Pulled a 30 second shot with solid resistance. Decent crema (I think?). And best of all it tastes great! So then I steamed some oat milk and made a... well I’m not sure what you’d call it but there was about 6oz of steamed milk.

I’m going to try messing with it more this weekend.

Keep working with it, you will get it dialed in. I'm still waiting on a proper tamper for this thing (went the custom route), but that said I'm still pulling in some good shots. I just think you have to figure out the nuances of the machine...as well as beans, grind, and tamp.






W.

[William]

Since we are on manuals here, has anyone tried the Aram espresso machine? Spendy little bugger but seems to be well thought out and quality made. Came across the review and thought it looked interesting. I'm not in the market since I'm spending time with the La Pavoni for now but still looked cool.

In-depth Review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlUxtgM_Ipc




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[jkbrwn]

Speaking of James Hoffman, I was just about to share his Dialing in Espresso series relating to the few messages above. I found it really helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFwJF-_SUr0

[William]

Speaking of James Hoffman, I was just about to share his Dialing in Espresso series relating to the few messages above. I found it really helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFwJF-_SUr0


I saw that but hadn't looked at it yet, thanks for sharing!



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[William]

Just arrived in the mail yesterday... a custom Oregon Myrtlewood 51.5mm tamper from Thor Tampers. Fits the double shot basket like a glove and the light and dark gain patterns look great as well imo. The core is weighted so it has a nice solid heft to it. Great price, great product. Now we'll see how it does in the long term.

I was starting to get some decent shots by getting creative with the junk plastic tamper that came with the La Pavoni. Now I’m getting her dialed in…definitely a lever fan now.





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[grawk]

that looks fantastic

[William]

Btw, not sure if anyone has tried this here but since the Aeropress filters are so cheap I thought I would give it a go. Not saying I will keep doing this but it does seem to work well and minimize channeling. Supposedly it produces better extraction...

https://sprometheus.com/aeropressfilter/


Just rinse and reuse. You get a lot of pulls through a single filter.




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[William]

Very interesting results trying a filter on the bottom of the basket and one on top of the tamped puck. It allows one to go much finer on the grind then without resulting in more extraction. The ground espresso is no longer being restricted by being pushed into the holes in the basket. A grind setting that was causing firm resistance on the lever becomes much easier to pull through giving the ability to grind finer.

The filter on the top seems to cause better/more even dispersion of the water through the puck with the added benefit of drastically reducing any of the espresso flushing back into the shower screen. It also pretty much eliminates the possibility for channeling.

Flavor is very full and tasty to my pallet. Anyway, still playing with it but the results are good.







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[mtechnica]

I still suck at the pavoni but I made drinkable oat milk lattes today.

[scoobydrew]

To address channeling, try the WDT (Weiss Distribution Technique). Basically, before you tamp, give the grounds a stir using a needle, end of a straightened paperclip, toothpick, etc.

[William]

To address channeling, try the WDT (Weiss Distribution Technique). Basically, before you tamp, give the grounds a stir using a needle, end of a straightened paperclip, toothpick, etc.

Yup, used that method to good effect.






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[William]

I still suck at the pavoni but I made drinkable oat milk lattes today.

Takes practice for sure but keep at it, you'll get it dialed in. I think James Hoffman had a video about dialing in your espresso shots...might be worth a look.






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[jkbrwn]

It was only a matter of time. Hoffman on the La Pavoni

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKimj0vRM5A

[William]

It was only a matter of time. Hoffman on the La Pavoni

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKimj0vRM5A


Be back in 11 and a half minutes...






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[mwynne]

Oh, I would really like one of those...

[benb]

Yah that video makes me want one.

It looks simple enough I could tear it apart and service it no different than a Moka pot.

And if it's 60 years old and they still make it the same way you know it's not full of total head scratcher price point engineering that makes you go *** when you take it apart and find some piece that is broken and so poorly designed that you wonder if it was ever tested.

[William]

Nice basic video! I never noticed James Bond using one (badly) in a film.

It looks simple enough I could tear it apart and service it no different than a Moka pot.

And if it's 60 years old and they still make it the same way you know it's not full of total head scratcher price point engineering that makes you go *** when you take it apart and find some piece that is broken and so poorly designed that you wonder if it was ever tested.

I agree, super simple robust machine that is easy to service. That's one of the things I like about it. Plus there is a good following with numerous upgrades to add if you want to go that route.







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[William]

Italian machine -> Cycling forum -> Espresso -> Italian cycling company = Campy...they all go together!:banana:

https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/store/campagnolo_espresso_cups






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[jkbrwn]

Italian machine -> Cycling forum -> Espresso -> Italian cycling company = Campy...they all go together!:banana:


W.

It'll go marvelously with the Chorus 12 group I just ordered. Perhaps that's how I will convince my wife :cool:


In all seriousness, I like the manual aspect of my ROK but don't like the pre-heat cycle and whatnot. The LP is the solution to me. I have no issue with spending on something that lasts decades either so I definitely sense one coming to me in my future :)

[mwynne]

It'll go marvelously with the Chorus 12 group I just ordered. Perhaps that's how I will convince my wife :cool:


In all seriousness, I like the manual aspect of my ROK but don't like the pre-heat cycle and whatnot. The LP is the solution to me. I have no issue with spending on something that lasts decades either so I definitely sense one coming to me in my future :)

I'm still meh on my ROK personally (I do like the manual experience though). Cafelat Robot has a lot of appeal (and reportedly a bit less preheating faff). Honestly the biggest draw for me with the LP is the option of steaming milk on occasion (this is ZERO budget for one, but I might tuck that away in the back of my mind).

[scoobydrew]

Speaking of cycling branded/related coffee gear, anyone have a Chris King tamper they want to part with?

[jkbrwn]

I'm still meh on my ROK personally (I do like the manual experience though). Cafelat Robot has a lot of appeal (and reportedly a bit less preheating faff). Honestly the biggest draw for me with the LP is the option of steaming milk on occasion (this is ZERO budget for one, but I might tuck that away in the back of my mind).

I’m okay with mine. It was a means to an end. The robot didn’t exist yet, I didn’t love the look of the flair and I didn’t want a great big espresso machine. I think I’ll go one of two avenues next - something like a gaggia classic/rancillio silva or the La Pavoni. They’re all supposedly relatively easy to maintain. All I know is I don’t want to be boiling the kettle to make espresso!

I do have decent results with the ROK though. Good extraction, relatively syrupy, tasting notes seem to come through and decent cream. It’s difficult to tell just how decent it is though as I’ve not used these coffees in anything but the ROK. But, for $70 in an open box deal, I really can’t complain.

[William]

I like it...but it does scare me a little.:)




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[Louis]

I like it...but it does scare me a little.:)

I bet that at night, when no one else is around, that thing walks around the kitchen. Be careful if you ever go down for a midnight snack...

[Miller76]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Drc064TvQ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mtechnica]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Drc064TvQ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now THIS guy coffees!

[William]

Now THIS guy coffees!

That video was the first time I noticed the Campy upgrade option.:banana:






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[mwynne]

I am slowly convincing myself that something like a Europiccola would be the perfect setup here... I know we don't have it in the budget, but oh do I want one now.

[William]

I am slowly convincing myself that something like a Europiccola would be the perfect setup here... I know we don't have it in the budget, but oh do I want one now.

I don't know what your budget is but I'm seeing them pop up on CL from time to time. Prices generally in the 300 - 400 range. Being such a robust machine all that you ~might~ need to do is change seals which isn't hard.






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[mwynne]

I don't know what your budget is but I'm seeing them pop up on CL from time to time. Prices generally in the 300 - 400 range. Being such a robust machine all that you ~might~ need to do is change seals which isn't hard.

There's one nearby-ish for $600 (CAD), but I did just set up an alert to keep an eye out... Being in a smaller city on an island definitely makes it a bit trickier to track one down.

[mtechnica]

So I replaced my 220v heating element with a 110v one and now it reaches 1 bar in about 8 minutes versus almost 30 minutes. It didn't seem to leak so maybe I didn't screw it up. Tomorrow I'm going to really get into making shots and see how it goes when I don't have to wait forever for the heat. I think I have a clue how to use it at this point so we'll see.

[mtechnica]

I don't know what your budget is but I'm seeing them pop up on CL from time to time. Prices generally in the 300 - 400 range. Being such a robust machine all that you ~might~ need to do is change seals which isn't hard.


W.

Don't forget minimum $100 for a hand grinder or $300+ for an electric one. It doesn't seem like it would work very well at all without a really good grinder.

[mtechnica]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf87AkjBrn8

lol...!

[William]

Our son walked into the kitchen this morning when I was in the process of steaming some milk and asked if the espresso machine was channeling the Nazgûl? LOR refrence if anyone doesn't get it. Never thought about it but once he said it...yup, sounds just like that.:)

Speaking of steaming milk, here is a good video on the topic if you are into milk drinks. Goes into detail about the process and also covers latte art at the end if that intrests you.

Sunergos Milk Training Video..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5nOFirDRTo


I'm getting better with the three hole nozzle that comes with the Europiccola. I'm finding the key (with hints from the above Sunergos video) is to get the nozzle into the milk closer to the side and back of the container. Submerse the tip and let it get the milk swirling around the container so that as the current comes around and hits the back of the nozzle its like a boulder in a stream. The area in front of the nozzle dips and allows the steam jets to just break the surface so you get that intermittent paper tearing sound, not continous tv static sound. Then just pay attention and adjust as the froth expands. A forum friend offered to send a single hole nozzle so I'll try that when it arrives, but in the meantime I'll keep trying to perfect my technique with the three hole.









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[mwynne]

Don't forget minimum $100 for a hand grinder or $300+ for an electric one. It doesn't seem like it would work very well at all without a really good grinder.

I've got a 1Zpresso JX-Pro (hand grinder) and it does an incredibly good job for a pretty reasonable price. I'd suggest anyone looking for a manual grinder to check them out (they also have a JE-Plus model that is a bit pricier/nicer).

[William]

Don't forget minimum $100 for a hand grinder or $300+ for an electric one. It doesn't seem like it would work very well at all without a really good grinder.

True, you will need a good burr grinder to really get the most out of the La Pavoni.

Here is a $495 Europiccola candidate if you don't mind one of the pre milineum models. Completey gone through by the Voltage 110 team and comes with a double basket and bottomless portafilter so not a bad deal at all...

https://www.voltage110.com/product-page/78-la-pavoni-europiccola





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[mtechnica]

True, you will need a good burr grinder to really get the most out of the La Pavoni.

Here is a $495 Europiccola candidate if you don't mind one of the pre milineum models. Completey gone through by the Voltage 110 team and comes with a double basket and bottomless portafilter so not a bad deal at all...

https://www.voltage110.com/product-page/78-la-pavoni-europiccola





W.

That seems like a good deal. They keep saying it’s ugly but I don’t think it is.

[mwynne]

That seems like a good deal. They keep saying it’s ugly but I don’t think it is.

Agreed, if it was local (or at least no international shipping) I'd jump on it.

[William]

Yes, I think that is a pretty good deal. I think those folks are used to dealing in more esoteric lever machines but have had a lot or requests for the La Pavonis.




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[William]

I'm getting better with the three hole nozzle that comes with the Europiccola. I'm finding the key (with hints from the above Sunergos video) is to get the nozzle into the milk closer to the side and back of the container. Submerse the tip and let it get the milk swirling around the container so that as the current comes around and hits the back of the nozzle its like a boulder in a stream. The area in front of the nozzle dips and allows the steam jets to just break the surface so you get that intermittent paper tearing sound, not continous tv static sound. Then just pay attention and adjust as the froth expands. A forum friend offered to send a single hole nozzle so I'll try that when it arrives, but in the meantime I'll keep trying to perfect my technique with the three hole.


Recieved the single hole nozzle yesterday from one of our forum buds and installed it last night. 100% MUCH easier to get better foam with the one hole nozzle. It might take slightly longer to heat up the milk but I noticed right away I'm using less water than before. I would highly recommend making the switch if you are going to be steaming milk even a little bit.




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[William]

Fyi, not mine and no connection to the seller. Came up on my radar and it's a good price!

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/for/d/seattle-la-pavoni-europiccola-pre/7184995752.html






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[mwynne]

I've got a Europiccola on the way soon. Cannot wait!
Already planning some functional upgrades (steam wand tip, temperature stuff), but I also kind of want this.... https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/774387705/campagnolo-steam-knob-la-pavoni

[William]

I've got a Europiccola on the way soon. Cannot wait!
Already planning some functional upgrades (steam wand tip, temperature stuff), but I also kind of want this.... https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/774387705/campagnolo-steam-knob-la-pavoni

Nice, and that's a cool upgrade!

I got a campy QR from OP that I'm going to modify for the same purpose.





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[mwynne]

Nice, and that's a cool upgrade!

I got a campy QR from OP that I'm going to modify for the same purpose.


Keep us posted on how it turns out. The one I linked to just doesn't feel quite elegant enough. If you come up with a good solution...

[mwynne]

At last!

On inspection, it looks good. little bit of surface rust and grime. Did a cleaning cycle, but may still need to properly descale...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50310582352_f17a2ef7c3_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jDLTkE)

[mtechnica]

At last!

On inspection, it looks good. little bit of surface rust and grime. Did a cleaning cycle, but may still need to properly descale...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50310582352_f17a2ef7c3_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jDLTkE)

Congrats, it’s fun to try to figure out how to use it.

[William]

At last!

On inspection, it looks good. little bit of surface rust and grime. Did a cleaning cycle, but may still need to properly descale...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50310582352_f17a2ef7c3_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jDLTkE)


Congrats! Looks like a nice score.


Enjoy the journey getting it dialed in. There will be ups and downs but when you get it...you'll be glad you got it. :)





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[mtechnica]

I'm only just now getting decent at this thing. I've had the best luck with the finest grind setting or near it, then somewhat hard tamp pressure. I've made 4 shots today and they were all good and consistent.

[mwynne]

I am extremely excited.

[William]

I'm only just now getting decent at this thing. I've had the best luck with the finest grind setting or near it, then somewhat hard tamp pressure. I've made 4 shots today and they were all good and consistent.

I've got my grinder dialed into the point if I take it down one more setting it will choke the Europiccola. It's takes roughly 25 - 28 seconds with firm pressure on the lever to pull a shot. They have been very consistent and tasty. I can actually take the grind down finer if I use the Aeropress filter method and place one on the bottom of the basket before filling the portafilter. It does work well but I've gone back to the traditional method.







W.

[William]

I am extremely excited.

Have fun!!:banana:





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[fmradio516]

Howdy all. So I just was handed down this Pavoli from my father in law. He had it for a bunch of years and it was always very finnicky with him. If the beans absorbed too much moisture from the air, he said the grind would need to be adjusted. And if it wasnt the beans, then the machine would have a problem with something like the piston coming loose, etc...

He thinks its mechanically sound now, but he's gone to a semi-automatic machine. So I got this.


Does anyone have any foolproof method to figuring out grind size(i think ive got this one down), and how much actual grounds to put in the portafilter? Like, if theres an imaginary line I should roughly shoot for?

It seems that sometimes I will get a little bit of espresso start to drip when I have the piston up. I leave it up for about 10 seconds then start pressing but if it leaks, then i just press as soon as I see it leak. With my method now, I get the leak 50% of the time. Is it my grind size, am I not tamping hard enough, or is there too little espresso?

Grinder below. Thanks!

https://i.imgur.com/XdgV6eC.jpg

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81MFNyowoKL._AC_SY879_.jpg

[scoobydrew]

I'm not familiar with lever machines, but generally for espresso that Capresso Infinity grinder cannot grind consistently and fine enough to produce an acceptable shot. I have one, but it's used only for non-espresso brew methods.

For starters, you can try setting the grind size to the finest setting. Otherwise, I'd start looking at espresso grinders.

[mtechnica]

You need to use a scale and single dose through the grinder. I would use 12-13g of beans, tamp hard, and grind close to as fine as you can for a starting point.

[mwynne]

Assuming it's a double basket, I'd look at 14-15g of espresso in. If you're getting liquid coming out with just the lever fully raised (no downwards pressure), sounds like you should try and grind finer. You might be able to compensate with a harder tamp, but dialing in grind size is more important.

I'll also say there's a LP owner's group on Facebook where I have learned a LOT from.

[mwynne]

I think I have a plan for my Europiccola steam lever mod. But which lever do I want to pick up...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50338842692_bdd0f6a909.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jGgJ9U)

or

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50338842662_5ba7e4e407.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jGgJ9o)

[William]

New La Pavoni resource site with tons of great info...

www.lpowners.org





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[foregroundmusic]

Mildly OT to the actual machines, but I’m interested in what beans everyone is liking. I lean more to pour overs, but I’m always looking for good independent roasters to buy from if anyone has suggestions.

[William]

Mildly OT to the actual machines, but I’m interested in what beans everyone is liking. I lean more to pour overs, but I’m always looking for good independent roasters to buy from if anyone has suggestions.

These are the two roasters I'm hitting right now. Both somewhat local to me so when I cruise through a couple times a week I'll stop and grab some fresh beans.

https://www.caffeladro.com

http://www.victorscelticcoffee.com/coffee.htm






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[fmradio516]

What does everyone use under/around their espresso station? We just moved and our new kitchen has some really nice, white quartz countertop. If there is a spec of coffee grind on the counter, im in trouble.

I have a small hand towel there now, but it seems i still cant keep the counter completely clean. Any coffee mats of some kind that people like?

[William]

No relation to seller...cat optional:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/app/d/olympia-vintage-la-pavoni-professional/7192766138.html





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[William]

I call this one..."Hallelujah!!" :D





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[mtechnica]

No relation to seller...cat optional:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/app/d/olympia-vintage-la-pavoni-professional/7192766138.html





W.

That is a good deal

[jkbrwn]

Ha, cute^^

I’ve finally committed to buying a Robot before the end of the year. I’ve obviously read everything there is to read about them from critics - but does anyone here have one? Any nuances that others might not have discovered/reported?

Also, I’ll need a better grinder than the Oxo one I currently have. Anyone hand grinding for espresso? Pain in the arse? Not too bad? I hand ground for V60 for years, but that wasn’t so bad due to the grind size.

[William]

Ha, cute^^

I’ve finally committed to buying a Robot before the end of the year. I’ve obviously read everything there is to read about them from critics - but does anyone here have one? Any nuances that others might not have discovered/reported?

Also, I’ll need a better grinder than the Oxo one I currently have. Anyone hand grinding for espresso? Pain in the arse? Not too bad? I hand ground for V60 for years, but that wasn’t so bad due to the grind size.

You've probably seen this, but just in case you haven't I'll post the link...

James Hoffman review...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11ZSXVZbQbA

Otherwise I've never used one so I can't add anything other than it looks interesting and I would consider one if I didn't already have the LP.




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[jkbrwn]

I’ve watched it probably five times since he first posted it :)

Really do like his videos a lot.

I don’t really do many milk drinks so it just seems like the perfect machine for me. If and LP was closer in price to the Robot, it’d be LP all day, but the price is hard to beat for the product IMO.

[mwynne]

I'll just say that I was able to get a used LP for basically the same price as the Robot. But the Robot was top of my mind before finding that. I use a 1Zpresso JX-Pro to hand grind for my LP and it works great.

[jkbrwn]

I'll just say that I was able to get a used LP for basically the same price as the Robot. But the Robot was top of my mind before finding that. I use a 1Zpresso JX-Pro to hand grind for my LP and it works great.

Thank you for pointing this out. I’m obviously aware of the Comandante and Helor’s etc but hadn’t heard of the 1Z. It looks perfect.

Just read this in a review: ‘ Grinding 20 grams of medium roast for espresso takes about 45 seconds, which is pretty solid.’

If that’s accurate, that’s pretty great.

I know I could get a used LP for close to the price of a Robot... but... Robot’s are just so cool. Obviously LPs are too, but the Robot speaks to me on so many levels.

[mwynne]

I can time myself this afternoon, but I do not find it all onerous.

[mtechnica]

I have a nice hand grinder that I use for my aeropress at work, it takes maybe 20 seconds for ~20g but for espresso grind it might take longer.

[jkbrwn]

I can time myself this afternoon, but I do not find it all onerous.

Don’t worry about it. Thanks though. In fact, might pick one of these up prior to the robot just to see if it’s transformative for my ROK. I don’t mind the ROK. It pulls some decent shots but my grinder is absolutely my weakest link.

[mwynne]

Don’t worry about it. Thanks though. In fact, might pick one of these up prior to the robot just to see if it’s transformative for my ROK. I don’t mind the ROK. It pulls some decent shots but my grinder is absolutely my weakest link.I got it to do the same with my ROK. Which I replaced with my LP ;)

[jkbrwn]

I got it to do the same with my ROK. Which I replaced with my LP ;)

Heh. All in due course ;) I got an Amazon voucher from my pet insurance provider that I've been sitting on. I'll at least get 2/3's of the grinder for free :)

[William]

Popped up locally, an Elektra S1C Chrome Micro Casa A Leva...


W.

[William]

Also a Ponte Vecchio Lusso 2 Group Spring Lever Espresso Machine...but really overkill for my needs.





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[fmradio516]

I opened up my Pavoni last night due to me noticing that the entire machine was moving left/right in the base. Undid the one screw, popped off the cover, and there is a great amount of rust inside.. Removed a bunch with sandpaper and used rust converter on the remaining, but man, that was a surprise.

https://i.imgur.com/31Znxyv.jpg

[Gsinill]

I opened up my Pavoni last night due to me noticing that the entire machine was moving left/right in the base. Undid the one screw, popped off the cover, and there is a great amount of rust inside.. Removed a bunch with sandpaper and used rust converter on the remaining, but man, that was a surprise.

https://i.imgur.com/31Znxyv.jpg

Probably made by Alfa Romeo ;)

[William]

I opened up my Pavoni last night due to me noticing that the entire machine was moving left/right in the base. Undid the one screw, popped off the cover, and there is a great amount of rust inside.. Removed a bunch with sandpaper and used rust converter on the remaining, but man, that was a surprise.

https://i.imgur.com/31Znxyv.jpg

Years of condensation created by the hot and cold cycling of the machine during use?




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[fmradio516]

Years of condensation created by the hot and cold cycling of the machine during use?




W.

Yeah I guess so... The copper line also has some corrosion on it as well. Not sure if theyre related, but the machine itself is less than 10 years old.

[William]

Yeah I guess so... The copper line also has some corrosion on it as well. Not sure if theyre related, but the machine itself is less than 10 years old.

Apprently not an uncommon thing on the metal based machines. Cleaning recommendation, though it sounds like you already handled it...

http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/La_Pavoni/Faidate/r_sottobase_ruggine_eng.htm







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[William]

I'll just leave this here...:)






W.

[mwynne]

^^^ That's my machine ;)

Much nicer woodwork to come and replace my quick and dirty proof of concept later. Also working to figure out what shapes I want for lever handles and boiler cap...

[William]

^^^ That's my machine ;)

Much nicer woodwork to come and replace my quick and dirty proof of concept later. Also working to figure out what shapes I want for lever handles and boiler cap...

Nice job!:cool:

Looking foreward to seeing how your concept plays out.





W.

[William]

Speaking of mods, I've been mulling over changing my Rossi over from dosser to dosser-less. The dosser works great if you are making a lot of coffee, what you lose in comparison to what you make is no big deal. If you aren't making a lot then what gets wasted seems like a fair amount over time to me.

I have seen some people use stainless steel fudge funnels to mod and turn it into a dosser-less maching but I wasn't crazy about the look of it. I did recently find a source that makes a chute that fits the curve of the grinder and it bolts right on. I think I'm going to give this a go first over fabbing something. The hopper is also huge and the same guy selling the chute also makes an attachment to use a much smaller hopper.

The Rossi is definitely over kill for my recreational espresso making. It's really a commercial machine with a hopper that holds about five pounds or so of coffee. Thing is a buddy that owns a coffee shop back in NE gave me a deal I couldn't pass up and he had just gone through it and replaced the burrs and refurbished it. No way I'll ever wear this thing out. Very consistent grind and I can easily grind down for Turkish coffee if I wanted.








W.

[jkbrwn]

After being very impressed with the JX Pro, but still not satisfied with the output of the ROK after much dialling in (flavour and crema great, but it just didn’t have the viscosity I look for in espresso) I ordered a like new Robot from eBay for $395 shipped with upgraded tamp, robot hands and pressure gauge. Very very excited. Feedback to follow.

[William]

After being very impressed with the JX Pro, but still not satisfied with the output of the ROK after much dialling in (flavour and crema great, but it just didn’t have the viscosity I look for in espresso) I ordered a like new Robot from eBay for $395 shipped with upgraded tamp, robot hands and pressure gauge. Very very excited. Feedback to follow.



Nice! Ride report and photos please.:cool:






W.

[jkbrwn]

This thing literally looks unused. Very happy with the condition of it. The build on this thing is mad good. That's where you're spending the money over something like a ROK/Flair. Well, that and that it requires far less thermal management.

Almost outta beans so I managed to just about get a close to dialed in shot with what I had. Workflow is quite strange having come from a ROK where I was very used to preheating etc and a traditional portafilter. I don't love the portafilter on it versus a traditional portafilter but I've only made three shots with it so I am guessing it'll become far more natural over time.

From the outset I used the same 16gr of coffee as I did for the small 49.7mm basket on the ROK. I ground two clicks finer on my JX Pro than I did for the same coffee using the ROK. This was to compensate for the 58mm basket (versus the ROKs 49.7mm basket) and the wider, but flatter, coffee bed. In hindsight, I should probably have started at 17g given the size of the basket. Unfortunately, my Hario scale doesn't fit under the legs of the Robot so I am waiting for a smaller scale to turn up tomorrow, therefore I was estimating output weight.

The grind was still too coarse. I just about reached 6 bars of pressure but the flow was far too fast at 6 bar. I think the total shot time after preinfusion was only about 19 seconds.

Pulled another shot changing only the grind size but it was too fine and I reached 10+ bar trying to get any espresso out -- hard work and tasted awful.

Not wanting to change more than one variable at a time, I dialed the grind one click coarser than the previous shot and flow time was good. My final recipe with the coffee I had was 16gr in, 10 second preinfusion at 2 bar, then a 27 second press at 6 bar, guestimated around 34gr out. Tasty, but still lacking mouthfeel and in hindsight was definitely too short of a shot.

I suspect the following would be better: same grind as final recipe above, but 17gr in instead of 16, a 15 second preinfusion at 2 bar and 27-30 seconds at 6+ bar.

Lots of experimenting to be done and no doubt coffee to throw away! FWIW, I was using Santa Barbara's Handlebar Coffee's Gibraltar blend. Mainly because I know it relatively well and I've been drinking it from the ROK all week and also had a shot of it at Handlebar a couple of weeks ago.

I also think my basket prep could be slightly better. I was using a lone toothpick to break up any small rocks in my grounds but I could probably do with fashioning something out of paperclips. I reckon my favourite thing about prepping this basket is not needing to worry about coffee flowing out of the sides. It's so deep that there's no concern of that happening.

In summary, I have no doubt this thing is gonna be capable of making some killer espresso without too much trouble.

[William]

Very nice! Did you get the wired controller and VIR enhancement goggles as well?;)


All kidding aside, I'm interested in hearing about your dialing it in and overall longterm impressions of the robot.









William

[jkbrwn]

Ha! Very good effort indeed.

One of the main reasons it stood out to me in the first place was how it looked. In an apartment that mostly contains mid century furniture, it blends right in :)

Dialing in itself was very straight forward - it was scary easy to get some great results. A pretty standard recipe of 17g in, 40g out seems to be the sweet spot. I think it’s common knowledge that manual levers get better extraction with a slightly higher than 2:1 ratio.

For me, now, it’s more about experimenting with different pressures and pull time to get different results, along with temperature control. Lots of people on home-barista.com report that they pull very long shots (time wise) at low pressures and get fantastic results, so yes, lots of experimenting to be done!

[William]

Anyone in the Paceline land ever give an Orphan Espresso hand grinders a whirl?

https://www.oehandgrinders.com/OE-Manual-Coffee-Grinders_c_1.html




W.

[earlfoss]

There are some pretty amazing looking manual machines out there! My LaPavoni is still kicking, but I'm glad there's other cool options out there when the time comes to replace it.

[mwynne]

I am currently being tempted by a spring lever machine...

[William]

If you go to change the o-rings in a Europiccola Milineum you may find a teflon sleeve that requires a special tool to remove. You can buy that special tool, or if you are like me and never throw any tools out, use that little alan wrench that comes with your Ikea furniture purchase. That alan key used in conjuction with a crescent wrench and a pair of pliers will get it out easy as cake...pie, easy as pie. :) Just lay it across the slot, grab the center with the crescent wrench, then grab the wrench with the pliers and turn.





W.

[simplemind]

[/quote]
In summary, I have no doubt this thing is gonna be capable of making some killer espresso without too much trouble.[/QUOTE][/SIZE]

Can you update your recent findings? I’m reading that too fine is a bad thing for the Robot. Mine should be here tomorrow, so I’m trying to get a head start! :)

[Cantdog]

Anyone in the Paceline land ever give an Orphan Espresso hand grinders a whirl?

https://www.oehandgrinders.com/OE-Manual-Coffee-Grinders_c_1.html




W.

I have a Lido ET ive used for drip and pour over for about about a year and will try it with espresso in the coming days. My only complaint as I don’t travel much the handle will sometimes fold in with harder light roast beans. Been great so far though. No complaints.

[jkbrwn]

Can you update your recent findings? I’m reading that too fine is a bad thing for the Robot. Mine should be here tomorrow, so I’m trying to get a head start! :)

Sure. I recently wrote this on a Reddit post. Bear in mind this discussed my experience with the Robot as well as the JX Pro grinder.



‘The JX Pro is a fantastic grinder. It is so, so well made. I don’t see why it won’t last forever. The burrs will need to be replaced at some point in the future but that’s a long way away. I don’t see the hand grinder as a pain. Once you dial in one coffee, I haven’t found that the required grind for any other coffee is drastically different. The most I’ve had to adjust by is a single click. It’s very easy to tell if the grind is too coarse or too fine in my experience. I find that there’s only one spot on the grinder that is right. Either I’m reaching 10+ bar and the shot takes waaaaay too long and I’m pressing way too hard, or I can’t even get it to 6 bar. The former is obviously too fine and the latter too coarse. Therefore the spot between them is the appropriate grind.

The first time I used the grinder, it took me three shots to dial a coffee in. Since then, it’ll usually take me two shots to dial a new coffee in. It’s honestly painless. This is coming from someone who has an electric grinder for filter where I’m used to a 12 second grind time.

For 17g of coffee, it takes about me between 30-45 seconds to grind depending on the coffee in use.

The darker the roast, the less I care about thermal management, so if I’m using a darker medium roast, I can go from boiling the kettle to having espresso in literally two minutes. Boil kettle>weigh and grind beans>prep basket>pour boiled water into basket>pull shot. It’s honestly a really nice workflow.

It only becomes slightly more arduous when you have to preheat, but in my experience, unless you’re using really lightly roasted coffee, you don’t need to preheat. You need to preheat all of the other manual press makers so it’s nice that this is not a requirement with the Robot. Even when I do preheat with the robot, I only run it under hot tap water. This wasn’t effective with my ROK as the thermal loss was much greater than the Robot.

Oh, regarding recipe. I don’t really deviate from 17g in, 40g out. I feel it works well and tastes good. I preinfuse for generally 10-15 seconds and pull shots in 30ish seconds. So my timer usually reads 40-45 seconds by the time I reach 40g. I preinfuse at 2 bar, ramp up to 9 and ramp back down to 6 until the shot is complete.’



Outside of all that stuff, it’s probably one of my favourite purchases of anything, ever. It’s incredibly satisfying to use, I absolutely love the way it looks but most importantly it makes absolutely fantastic espresso without much work or effort. I always read ‘home espresso has to be a hobby to get good results’ and to me the Robot removes some of that full time hobby aspect. It’s so much more straight forward than having a good full sized single boiler machine and obviously cheaper. I am using it twice a day and it’s just a joy to use.

Good luck with your machine. I feel like I’ve used mine enough now to be able to offer advice if you run into any funky behaviour so feel free to PM me with any questions.

[flying]

Anyone in the Paceline land ever give an Orphan Espresso hand grinders a whirl?
W.

Oh yes had a Lido 3 for a long time. Used it for everything from pour over, AeroPress and even a double boiler espresso machine I had.

Excellent Product ;)

[Dfishboy]

Following.

[William]

For those of you that have purchased from Orphan Espresso, have you had any issues with communicating with them? I ordered a full o-ring rebuild kit for my Europiccola millenium from them. The kit showed up in a timely manner so no issue there. Upon changing them out the last one I went to install was for the shower screen, but I discovered that the new o-ring has a flat side and a rounded side, the old one was fully rounded. I attempted to put the new one in but it would not go in and stay in. I used the portafilter to seat it but no matter how many times I tried it would just fall out. I ended up putting the old one back in since that wasn't where I was having an issue, but I would still want to replace it. This machine has the Millenium sticker on the bottom and uses a 51mm portafilter basket so I'm sure I ordered the right kit.

I emailed them to describe the situation to see if they had any suggestions or to see if they possibly included the wrong shower screen o-ring in the kit. So far we are going on a week and a half with no response. They were able to process my order and get it sent out within a day so they are on top of that end of things. I tried resending an email yesterday so I'll wait a while and see but so far I'm not imressed with support side of things.








W.

[mwynne]

I have a memory rattling around my brain that for a few years the millennium models did use an o-ring that didn't have a flat side...

[William]

I have a memory rattling around my brain that for a few years the millennium models did use an o-ring that didn't have a flat side...

It would seem that I landed one of those. Works great though.






W.

[Cantdog]

I’ve never gotten a reply when I’ve tried to contact Orphan Espresso.

[William]

I’ve never gotten a reply when I’ve tried to contact Orphan Espresso.

Well that's great, looks like I may be SOL. If that's the case it will be the first and last time I order anything from them.






W.

[flying]

Well that's great, looks like I may be SOL. If that's the case it will be the first and last time I order anything from them.
W.

I have spoken with them before but it was thru using PM on a coffee forum.
I am pretty sure it was Home Barista (https://www.home-barista.com/forums/)

Just checked and they were active 50 minutes ago
https://www.home-barista.com/member/orphanespresso/

So they are there ;)

[mtechnica]

Well that's great, looks like I may be SOL. If that's the case it will be the first and last time I order anything from them.






W.

Try Stefano's espresso care in Portland.

https://www.espressocare.com/

[William]

I have spoken with them before but it was thru using PM on a coffee forum.
I am pretty sure it was Home Barista (https://www.home-barista.com/forums/)

Just checked and they were active 50 minutes ago
https://www.home-barista.com/member/orphanespresso/

So they are there ;)

Thanks for the heads up. If they won't respond to the email they tell you to use on their own website, yet may respond on a forum most customers probably don't know about, it doesn't inspire confidence in their business model.







W.

[William]

Try Stefano's espresso care in Portland.

https://www.espressocare.com/


Thanks, this was my next action if I ultimately didn't get a response from Orphan Espresso.






W.

[flying]

Thanks for the heads up. If they won't respond to the email they tell you to use on their own website, yet may respond on a forum most customers probably don't know about, it doesn't inspire confidence in their business model.

W.

True That ;)

[jkbrwn]

Can you update your recent findings? I’m reading that too fine is a bad thing for the Robot. Mine should be here tomorrow, so I’m trying to get a head start! :)

Any update on your Robot's arrival?

[simplemind]

Any update on your Robot's arrival?

Well yes, it’s still in the birthing stage...not really out of diapers. So far I’m struggling with getting a good puck. Shots are short, low pressure build up, some tunneling, some bitterness, you know the drill. By the time my 10 sec pre-infusion is done, the arms are almost down. I have a lot to learn. WDT is next.

[jkbrwn]

Well yes, it’s still in the birthing stage...not really out of diapers. So far I’m struggling with getting a good puck. Shots are short, low pressure build up, some tunneling, some bitterness, you know the drill. By the time my 10 sec pre-infusion is done, the arms are almost down. I have a lot to learn. WDT is next.

Absolutely sounds like a grind issue rather than distribution. Remind me - which grinder are you using?

And what is your dose?

[simplemind]

Absolutely sounds like a grind issue rather than distribution. Remind me - which grinder are you using?

And what is your dose?

Baratza Forte’ BG, which has the steel burrs. Used for my pour-overs, but thought I could get away with it since many Robot users claim they don’t use a typical espresso (ex fine) grind. It’s well aligned, but it could be just the style of the burrs. I may just have to get an inexpensive manual grinder dedicated for espresso use.
What are you using?

[fmradio516]

Baratza Forte’ BG, which has the steel burrs. Used for my pour-overs, but thought I could get away with it since many Robot users claim they don’t use a typical espresso (ex fine) grind. It’s well aligned, but it could be just the style of the burrs. I may just have to get an inexpensive manual grinder dedicated for espresso use.
What are you using?

Did you try going finer?

[jkbrwn]

Baratza Forte’ BG, which has the steel burrs. Used for my pour-overs, but thought I could get away with it since many Robot users claim they don’t use a typical espresso (ex fine) grind. It’s well aligned, but it could be just the style of the burrs. I may just have to get an inexpensive manual grinder dedicated for espresso use.
What are you using?

Fancy. I’m almost 100% sure you’ve seen this but if not this is worth a watch.

https://prima-coffee.com/learn/article/reviews/can-you-make-espresso-with-the-baratza-forte-brew-grinder-/forte-bg-espresso

I have a 1zpresso JX-Pro.

Highly recommended. Price to performance is really good IMO. Very quick to grind and consistency is fantastic. As well as the ridiculous number of clicks.

[simplemind]

Did you try going finer?

It’s just off of touching, so it’s as fine as it will safely go. :no: It’s (the grind) is really the only thing I haven’t changed since I started with the Robot. It’s funny how easy the Youtube videos make it look!

[simplemind]

Fancy. I’m almost 100% sure you’ve seen this but if not this is worth a watch.

https://prima-coffee.com/learn/article/reviews/can-you-make-espresso-with-the-baratza-forte-brew-grinder-/forte-bg-espresso

I have a 1zpresso JX-Pro.

Highly recommended. Price to performance is really good IMO. Very quick to grind and consistency is fantastic. As well as the ridiculous number of clicks.

That’s exactly the grinder I had in mind.

[fmradio516]

It’s just off of touching, so it’s as fine as it will safely go. :no: It’s (the grind) is really the only thing I haven’t changed since I started with the Robot. It’s funny how easy the Youtube videos make it look!

Interesting! I dont know how the Robot works, but did you try tamping harder?

[simplemind]

Fancy. I’m almost 100% sure you’ve seen this but if not this is worth a watch.

https://prima-coffee.com/learn/article/reviews/can-you-make-espresso-with-the-baratza-forte-brew-grinder-/forte-bg-espresso

I have a 1zpresso JX-Pro.

Highly recommended. Price to performance is really good IMO. Very quick to grind and consistency is fantastic. As well as the ridiculous number of clicks.

Also, thanks for that video link. I had watched it before I bought the Forte’ and was instrumental in my decision.

[jkbrwn]

Also, thanks for that video link. I had watched it before I bought the Forte’ and was instrumental in my decision.

No prob. Out of interest, what dose are you using? You might get a better result with a slightly larger dose and a harder tamp to create more resistance. (that could of course result in channeling, though) If you did this, you could try a longer pre-infuse while holding the arms in place to allow the puck to swell to it's max size before continuing with the pull of your shot. Might also create some resistance.

[simplemind]

No prob. Out of interest, what dose are you using? You might get a better result with a slightly larger dose and a harder tamp to create more resistance. (that could of course result in channeling, though) If you did this, you could try a longer pre-infuse while holding the arms in place to allow the puck to swell to it's max size before continuing with the pull of your shot. Might also create some resistance.

I was at 17.5 gms with ~ 40 gms h2o. I upped the dose to 20 gms and got better pressures and longer times as you would expect. Cup was not any better though.

I decided to order the ceramic burrs instead of buying another grinder to see how that works. I really like the Forte’ with its weight and time grind choices so we’ll see how the burrs changes things.

[simplemind]

I know I’m over thinking this, but re grinds and extraction times I’m wondering if grinders that offer a larger distribution of particle size within a grind setting will produce a tighter puck with longer extraction times.
Here’s where I’m coming from: the steel burrs on my Forte’ BG are supposed to produce a mostly uniform particle size, which benefits V60 type extraction. On the other hand, the ceramic burrs on the Forte’ AP are supposed to produce a slightly finer particle size, but also more fines...or larger distribution of particle size for a given setting.
If you have smaller particles filling in between (interstitial) the larger particles, it stands to reason that he resistance to flow will be increased...no? I’m just trying to figure out why I cannot build pressures that other Robot users are getting.

[jkbrwn]

Yes, I agree with what you are saying in principle.

If it helps... here's my current grind. I know it's coffee dependent but photo's always help regardless IMO.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1698013425&stc=1&d=1606012659

This is a grind for a 17g in, 40g out. I go for a 10-15 second preinfuse at 2 bar, ramp up to 9 and back down to 6/5 bar by the end of the shot.

This is the finest my Oxo burr grinder can do for comparison sake. I would agree that there are far less fines in here and even though it looks pretty fine, the espresso grind is still much finer. And the grinder itself can also go much, much finer.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1698013422&stc=1&d=1606012436

[simplemind]

Yes, I agree with what you are saying in principle.

If it helps... here's my current grind. I know it's coffee dependent but photo's always help regardless IMO.

This is a grind for a 17g in, 40g out. I go for a 10-15 second preinfuse at 2 bar, ramp up to 9 and back down to 6/5 bar by the end of the shot.

This is the finest my Oxo burr grinder can do for comparison sake. I would agree that there are far less fines in here and even though it looks pretty fine, the espresso grind is still much finer. And the grinder itself can also go much, much finer.


Well, you gave me an idea...I did a grind on my old Capresso conical burr grinder which produces a lot of fines as it’s really old. On the finest setting, I was able to get a 7 bar pull taper to 5, 15s pre and 35s total for a 45 gm shot. Impressive results from a "crappy grinder". If it weren’t for most of what I do is pour overs, the Forte’ would be on the auction block! I’m thinking the flat ceramic burrs will do the trick, at least hopeful!
I think we’re onto something! :)

[Rueda Tropical]

1698014798

Just finished a resto-mod on a 1978 La Pavoni Europiccola. Before and after image above. The powder coat was done by ArcaneMoto in Brooklyn. Just need to tighten the boiler flange and it's good to go.

[fmradio516]

Just finished a resto-mod on a 1978 La Pavoni Europiccola. Before and after image above. The powder coat was done by ArcaneMoto in Brooklyn. Just need to tighten the boiler flange and it's good to go.

Wow that looks great! The inside of my base is rusted pretty bad. Wonder if I should get it powder coated!

[crankles]

1698014798

Just finished a resto-mod on a 1978 La Pavoni Europiccola. Before and after image above. The powder coat was done by ArcaneMoto in Brooklyn. Just need to tighten the boiler flange and it's good to go.

we can hang

[William]

1698014798

Just finished a resto-mod on a 1978 La Pavoni Europiccola. Before and after image above. The powder coat was done by ArcaneMoto in Brooklyn. Just need to tighten the boiler flange and it's good to go.


Oh yeah, I like what you have done there!:cool:





W.

[William]

Yes, I agree with what you are saying in principle.

If it helps... here's my current grind. I know it's coffee dependent but photo's always help regardless IMO.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1698013425&stc=1&d=1606012659

This is a grind for a 17g in, 40g out. I go for a 10-15 second preinfuse at 2 bar, ramp up to 9 and back down to 6/5 bar by the end of the shot.

This is the finest my Oxo burr grinder can do for comparison sake. I would agree that there are far less fines in here and even though it looks pretty fine, the espresso grind is still much finer. And the grinder itself can also go much, much finer.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1698013422&stc=1&d=1606012436

I understand that it could look very different up close and in person and I could be very wrong...but the grind in those photos look quite course to me.







W.

[William]

I might have posted this previously...but this is a dangerous site to keep tabs on. I check it regularly and things tend to go very quickly.

Voltage 110
https://www.voltage110.com/machines-1





W.

[crankles]

Thanks for the heads up. If they won't respond to the email they tell you to use on their own website, yet may respond on a forum most customers probably don't know about, it doesn't inspire confidence in their business model.







W.

to be fair, probably 99.9999% of their business comes from the home-barista crowd ;-)

[crankles]

I might have posted this previously...but this is a dangerous site to keep tabs on. I check it regularly and things tend to go very quickly.

Voltage 110
https://www.voltage110.com/machines-1

W.
I don't live far from the Voltage Folks!

Whenever I'm depressed I head on over to Paul Pratt's instagram page.
https://www.instagram.com/cafelatco/

Someday I will own a San Marco Disco Volante! Someday.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BUrEHX5DViT/ Video of said machine in action.

[Rueda Tropical]

The Disco Volante is a beauty. The La San Marco Lollobridgida preceded it. Named after the actress Gina Lollobridgida because of its curves. I think they used the same group.

1698014864

1698014865

1698014866

1698014867

[crankles]

The Disco Volante is a beauty. The La San Marco Lollobridgida preceded it. Named after the actress Gina Lollobridgida because of its curves. I think they used the same group.

1698014864

1698014865

1698014866

1698014867

Interesting to see how they moved from the art deco Lollo, to the 50's curves of the Volante to the 60s linear designs seen in the 65 and 75.

[William]

I decided to do a little personalization...

The sun, carved and color filled with metallic gold powder. I also considered using golf leaf but over time this will hold up much better. Why the sun? Because I'm usually making espresso around the time the sun comes up. Also because after drinking my espresso I'm usually fully charged...like the sun.:)

I still need to clean it up a little more, I started to but it was still a little soft. It will be fully cured by tomorrow and will hold up really well.






W.

[crankles]

I decided to do a little personalization...

The sun, carved and color filled with metallic gold powder. I also considered using golf leaf but over time this will hold up much better. Why the sun? Because I'm usually making espresso around the time the sun comes up. Also because after drinking my espresso I'm usually fully charged...like the sun.:)

I still need to clean it up a little more, I started to but it was still a little soft. It will be fully cured by tomorrow and will hold up really well.


W.

Nice! and I like the little homemade wdt.

[William]

As an aside, does anyone use or recommend any type of after market (if there is such a thing) single dose hopper? The current hopper on my grinder holds three to five pounds of coffee easy. I just pour in enough beans for what I need each morning, but it would be nice not to have this giant hopper that I don't use staring at me every day.

Oh, and I've added a couple more additions to my LP.:)







W.

[benb]

Okay so "Volante" got me curious.

I didn't realize it was an Italian/Spanish word. It means Steering Wheel apparently. Which makes no sense to me for an Espresso machine.

Also the use of the word Volante the last year or two has mostly made me think of this:

https://media.sweetwater.com/api/i/q-82__ha-3a0062738c4555a6__hmac-cbb3f8fbc9b8c1ab9544b0384accca731f291a0c/images/items/750/Volante-large.jpg

In that case that device simulates an old music device which used a rotating drum.. so you can kind of jump from steering wheel to a rotating drum I guess.

Is there some kind of rotating part inside the espresso machine since the design doesn't seem to call back to a steering wheel?

[jkbrwn]

William, no word on a single dose hopper, but your LP looks mighty fine!

[Gsinill]

1698014798

Just finished a resto-mod on a 1978 La Pavoni Europiccola. Before and after image above. The powder coat was done by ArcaneMoto in Brooklyn. Just need to tighten the boiler flange and it's good to go.

Nice work.
Not getting though what that 2nd pressure gauge on top of the plunger is for, can you enlighten me?

[Gsinill]

If your machine has a pressure gauge, what pressure do you have it set to?
Mine is at the lower end at around 0.6 bar and I was thinking about cranking it up close to the max at 1.0 to improve frothing for almond milk.
Apparently high pressure might impact taste and flavor though based on what I read.

[crankles]

As an aside, does anyone use or recommend any type of after market (if there is such a thing) single dose hopper? The current hopper on my grinder holds three to five pounds of coffee easy. I just pour in enough beans for what I need each morning, but it would be nice not to have this giant hopper that I don't use staring at me every day.

Oh, and I've added a couple more additions to my LP.:)

W.

These are awesome. Seriously...side gig over on home-barista!

[William]

William, no word on a single dose hopper, but your LP looks mighty fine!

Thanks, just having fun!:banana:



These are awesome. Seriously...side gig over on home-barista!


I'm ashamed to admit...I've never been there. I will check it out.






W.

[earlfoss]

Thanks, this was my next action if I ultimately didn't get a response from Orphan Espresso.






W.

I have always bought from Stefano's and been happy with their service. I recommend! He's helped keep my pre-millenium Professional in service for a few decades.

[mtechnica]

If your machine has a pressure gauge, what pressure do you have it set to?
Mine is at the lower end at around 0.6 bar and I was thinking about cranking it up close to the max at 1.0 to improve frothing for almond milk.
Apparently high pressure might impact taste and flavor though based on what I read.

Mine is set a little over 1 bar but I’m assuming I should turn it down.

[mwynne]

Someone got a newly powdercoated base installed - was a great excuse to do a complete teardown. Custom woodwork is slowly coming along.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50923969458_da669c9d9a_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kzYDXq)

[William]

Someone got a newly powdercoated base installed - was a great excuse to do a complete teardown. Custom woodwork is slowly coming along.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50923969458_da669c9d9a_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kzYDXq)

I like what you did there!:cool:




W.

[mwynne]

Partial update/teaser. Woodwork is complete (but not in hand yet). This photo is from my woodworker of my parts fitted up on his personal machine. Cannot wait to install them here!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMwwDTHjmAu/

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51079007141_da33012089_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kPFgfV)

[William]

Partial update/teaser. Woodwork is complete (but not in hand yet). This photo is from my woodworker of my parts fitted up on his personal machine. Cannot wait to install them here!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMwwDTHjmAu/

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51079007141_da33012089_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kPFgfV)


Very nice! It looks like something photographer/woodworker Andrew Szeto would do. He repurposes laminated skateboards and creates all kinds of cool furniture and other odds and ends.

https://faircompanies.com/videos/uses-old-skateboards-for-stunning-a-frame-furniture-canoes/







W.

[mwynne]

Very nice! It looks like something photographer/woodworker Andrew Szeto would do. He repurposes laminated skateboards and creates all kinds of cool furniture and other odds and ends.

https://faircompanies.com/videos/uses-old-skateboards-for-stunning-a-frame-furniture-canoes/

Andrew is the guy making it! (I have a link to his IG reel in my earlier post). I really wanted to get someone in Canada to work with and have been a fan of his for a while.

[William]

Andrew is the guy making it! (I have a link to his IG reel in my earlier post). I really wanted to get someone in Canada to work with and have been a fan of his for a while.

Ha! I thought it looked like his work! I didn't click on the IG link since I've been minimizing my IG/FB exsposure as of late. Anyway, I watched the KD video a number of weeks back and really dig his style. I think that's awesome you are working with him to really personalize your LP. Very cool.






W.

[crankles]

Oh hell yes!
Partial update/teaser. Woodwork is complete (but not in hand yet). This photo is from my woodworker of my parts fitted up on his personal machine. Cannot wait to install them here!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMwwDTHjmAu/

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51079007141_da33012089_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kPFgfV)

[bobswire]

It depends on what you're looking for and your budget. The Pavoni machines have a difficult time with temperature stability. The trend over the past 15 years or so has been to carefully control temperature to improve shot quality. On that basis I'd suggest an e61 machine with PID temperature control. If you don't steam much you can save a bit by using a single-boiler machine like:

http://www.chriscoffee.com/collectio...ill-alexia-evo

That machine also gives the option of flow control, the greatest development since precise temperature control.

If budget is an issue, the Rancilio Silvia is still the best bang for the buck around, but with some tradeoffs:

http://www.chriscoffee.com/collectio...cilio-silvia-m

[William]

So, was that the real Bob, or the fake "Bob" commenting there???:confused:





W.

[LarryBSky]

My son moved back into our home during Covid. Glad that he brought his high tech espresso machine - Decent DE1

Sorry no levers

https://decentespresso.com/img/de1plus_home_1.jpg

https://decentespresso.com/img/de1plus_home_1.jpg
That's a stock photo but same model

[jkbrwn]

Very cool. How do you find using it? My dad is considering buying one and selling his Lelit Bianca.

I think it'd be a mistake as the Bianca is incredibly beautiful, but he seems keen on pressure profiling.

[crankles]

Very cool. How do you find using it? My dad is considering buying one and selling his Lelit Bianca.

I think it'd be a mistake as the Bianca is incredibly beautiful, but he seems keen on pressure profiling.

I like the idea of using pressure profiling as a 'fracturing' diagnostic, but I'm really keen on some temp profiling that this thing is capable off. As a chemist, temperature matters far more than pressure w.r.t to flavor component extractions. Get him interested interested in that please! ;-)

[jkbrwn]

Yeah, I said pressure, I just meant profiling in general. I worry about the software ceasing to be developed and propriety parts.

[mwynne]

Glamour shots in the next few days. Spot the bike content ;)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51117863502_8a9dc412ff_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kT7pUb)

[rwsaunders]

+1.

[mtechnica]

Glamour shots in the next few days. Spot the bike content ;)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51117863502_8a9dc412ff_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kT7pUb)

Baller!

[William]

Glamour shots in the next few days. Spot the bike content ;)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51117863502_8a9dc412ff_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kT7pUb)


Well done!:cool: I'm seriously digging it!



W.

[Louis]

Glamour shots in the next few days. Spot the bike content ;)

Coffee maker equivalent of splash handlebar tape? ;)

[mwynne]

Coffee maker equivalent of splash handlebar tape? ;)It makes the espresso 16% sweeter, the microfoam 9% more velvety, and is both laterally stiff and vertically compliant.

[mwynne]

Woodwork is done, installed, and I snuck in a little photo shoot!

Small album here (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189781308@N06/albums/72157719021846930), with a couple of excerpts below. Woodwork done by https://www.instagram.com/szetoszeto/.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125540439_1d3caf8d13_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kTMKZa)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125705268_0d98034197_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kTNAZ3)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125710918_5d3f9ace1f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kTNCEs)

[flying]

Woodwork is done, installed, and I snuck in a little photo shoot!


Wow!
How cool is that!

:beer: Congrats

[LongtailRider]

[QUOTE=mwynne;2914759]Woodwork is done, installed, and I snuck in a little photo shoot!

Love the Campy shifter on the steam valve- bellissima!!

[William]

I'm just going to say, I've had mine for a while now and I'm finally dialed in...great beans from a local roaster, grind just right, tamp down...and the syrupy goodness coming from this machine lately tops anything I've had in the past. Simply amazing when all aspects are dialed in.:cool:






W.

[mwynne]

I'm just going to say, I've had mine for a while now and I'm finally dialed in...great beans from a local roaster, grind just right, tamp down...and the syrupy goodness coming from this machine lately tops anything I've had in the past. Simply amazing when all aspects are dialed in.:cool:
W.

Agreed - once you reach an agreement, it's a magical little machine! Do I still want something a bit more.... robust? Yes, but not instead of this beaut.

[William]

Woodwork is done, installed, and I snuck in a little photo shoot!

Small album here (https://www.flickr.com/photos/189781308@N06/albums/72157719021846930), with a couple of excerpts below. Woodwork done by https://www.instagram.com/szetoszeto/.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125540439_1d3caf8d13_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kTMKZa)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125705268_0d98034197_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kTNAZ3)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51125710918_5d3f9ace1f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kTNCEs)



Imo, the topper would be to have Mr. Szeto make you a custom tamper like the Thor tamper I had made.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2776647&postcount=72

Something like that in the laminated turned Szeto style would look great.





W.

[mwynne]

Imo, the topper would be to have Mr. Szeto make you a custom tamper like the Thor tamper I had made.



Something like that in the laminated turned Szeto style would look great.



Tempting to do both the tamper and grinder handle in fact. And maybe a WDT tool. But also that might be too much....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210509/52acb2aea6a9939f5668292497407095.jpg

[William]

Morning pull, mmmmmmmm....





W :)

[mwynne]

Lovely. Here's mine from yesterday.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210814/5cc1cc5f2409621bc685af7ab75f377f.jpg

[William]

Lovely. Here's mine from yesterday.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210814/5cc1cc5f2409621bc685af7ab75f377f.jpg


Delicious, well done!


W

[jkbrwn]

Some sensational lever machines in Hoffman's new upload. Great video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kv1e00rCbc

[Tim Porter]

Some sensational lever machines in Hoffman's new upload. Great video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kv1e00rCbc

Thanks for posting this. My 1987 Olympia Cremina lever machine has been in regular use since we got it new. It's not really vintage, I don't think, but it's fun to see its antecedents with J. Hoffman. Tim

[benb]

Yes that video was amazing.

If he gets something up and going I'd definitely put a trip to his cafe on my list if and when we get to London.

[tctyres]

Some sensational lever machines in Hoffman's new upload. Great video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kv1e00rCbc

That restoration shop is amazing. I'm sure that his business from NA will see an uptick thanks to Hoffmann's interview.

[ERK55]

Yes that video was amazing.

If he gets something up and going I'd definitely put a trip to his cafe on my list if and when we get to London.

Does Hoffman have his own business in London?
First I’ve heard that.

[benb]

He owns a coffee roasting business Square Mile Coffee Roasters.. it's a little murky but I think he has cafe(s) too.

It's weird he talks so little about that part. I've been watching his videos 3-4 years maybe, he used to reference his actual "work" more.

[tctyres]

The IG of the shop Hoffman visits: Officina Maltoni's IG (https://www.instagram.com/officina_maltoni/), is impressive.

[jkbrwn]

He owns a coffee roasting business Square Mile Coffee Roasters.. it's a little murky but I think he has cafe(s) too.

It's weird he talks so little about that part. I've been watching his videos 3-4 years maybe, he used to reference his actual "work" more.

He has been a Director at Prufrock Coffee - one of London's foremost 3rd wave coffee shops - on Leather Lane since 2017 but yes, he founded SM. Not sure what it's like nowadays, but when I left London in 2018, a shed load of cafe's still used SM beans. Like. Loads.

[jkbrwn]

Lifted from the Officina Maltoni instagram. It's all full circle! Coffee ≈ cycling.

[daughterofgirl]

Lovely. Here's mine from yesterday.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210814/5cc1cc5f2409621bc685af7ab75f377f.jpg
So great, like pro barista! What coffee machine do you use? Can you recommend some budget pick for similar tricks? (Does worth as an example?)