OT: Is there an electric car on the horizon that you are excited about?

[Onno]

My wife has insisted (and I agree) that our next car must be electric. We have a couple of years to wait on this, but the only thing I like researching more than a next car purchase is a next bike purchase, so I've already begun digging around. This is what she wants in an electric car:

--range of 300 miles
--can hold 5 dogs (our pack)
--looks good (i.e. not boxy or heavy or transformery)
--has nothing to do with Elon Musk (whom she detests)
--does not have leather seats (she's vegan)
--does not break the bank

I have high hopes for the VW ID4 or ID5 (the Vizzion?). But who knows when they will be out. Anything else I should be looking at?

[BGW17]

Porsche Taycan if you got the $$. I’m a Porsche technician and they’re nice and fast. Just drove one this morning, very quick. And Vegan leather.

But Audi has the e-tron SUV which can fit the dogs and bikes easily.

[zetroc]

Honda e - but they have no plans to bring it to the US.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30690248/honda-e-u-s-market-why/

[slowpoke]

It's not completely electric, but the 2021 RAV4 Prime looks really promising.

[jds108]

Honda e - but they have no plans to bring it to the US.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30690248/honda-e-u-s-market-why/

That article says the range is 137 miles. Plus, I'd like to see somebody get 5 dogs and their significant other all in that... So I'm not sure this would be the best choice for the OP even it it becomes available.

[pasadena]

The only thing coming up soon is the Mustang Mach E. 4 door hatch crossover.

5 dogs could fit, depending on the size of the dogs. What do you drive now and what size vehicle would be ideal?

[Wattvagen]

what kind of dogs are we talking about? 5 dogs sounds like a lot of space to me!

i'm personally going to hold off as long as i can going in on an electric car. i really think we're getting close, but feel strongly that some type of universal battery or fast charging system is going to come, and that will be a game changer.

[OtayBW]

My wife has insisted (and I agree) that our next car must be electric. We have a couple of years to wait on this, but the only thing I like researching more than a next car purchase is a next bike purchase, so I've already begun digging around. This is what she wants in an electric car:

--range of 300 miles
--can hold 5 dogs (our pack)
--looks good (i.e. not boxy or heavy or transformery)
--has nothing to do with Elon Musk (whom she detests)
--does not have leather seats (she's vegan)
--does not break the bank

I have high hopes for the VW ID4 or ID5 (the Vizzion?). But who knows when they will be out. Anything else I should be looking at?I can't help you with a recommendation other than to suggest that with your wife's insistance about your next car, perhaps you can leverage your willingness to go along with the program toward some agreement on that next bike purchase.....:D

[Onno]

Five dogs do need a lot of space--especially the 2 greyhounds! The other 3 are smaller randomly bred dogs (i.e. mutts). I drive a Tiguan now, and my wife drives a Prius V. Both are big enough for the dogs with bikes and/or skis on the roof rack.

[Onno]

The only thing coming up soon is the Mustang Mach E. 4 door hatch crossover.

5 dogs could fit, depending on the size of the dogs. What do you drive now and what size vehicle would be ideal?

I've certainly read about this car, but it wasn't really on my radar. It actually fits the bill, doesn't it? And it looks pretty great!!

[pasadena]

Promising. Unknown quality of course.
It does qualify for the fed tax credits (which Tesla does not)
so you can save up to $10k off the price

I've certainly read about this car, but it wasn't really on my radar. It actually fits the bill, doesn't it? And it looks pretty great!!

[thirdgenbird]

Rivian without a doubt.

It’s the main thing keeping me from buying a bronco.

[Wattvagen]

Rivian without a doubt.

It’s the main thing keeping me from buying a bronco.

wooo

had not heard of them. looks cool!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/A9HaQ-c_gxs/maxresdefault.jpg

[bicycletricycle]

like most new cars, electric cars seem to be built to be leased and then thrown out, like iPads. The huge amount of bells and whistles added into most electric cars makes them even worse. The high price of repairs really does look like designed obsolescence to me. This makes me grumpy. I think the inherent cost of the battery is driving all of these cars into a price bracket that demands excessive luxury junk, hopefully lower battery prices in the future will allow more utilitarian models to flourish.

I would probably look into getting a plug in prius. You can run in EV mode for short trips (25 miles) and still have longer range when needed. The Prius batteries are not that expensive and those cars seem to last a really long time. The repairs are Toyota priced which means you can actually own this car out of warranty. A lot of third party companies have popped up that rebuild batteries and other powertrain components which makes these vehicles much lower impact in the end.

[Elefantino]

I drove the e-Tron last year and felt like James Bond in "Goldeneye," driving a tank.

Great pickup, tho.

[R3awak3n]

/\ give a a second while I go throw up. (this was about that robot smiley rivian thing, thats aweful)



2 years is a long time, I bet more options will come.

Of course the Taycan is cool but who has 150k to spend on a car? probably same guy that bought that $200 spurcycle bell.

I too do not like Elon Musk but tesla is ahead of the game right now, will they be in 2 years? who knows but they seem like decent cars are priced ok but I am with your wife, I would not give Musk a cent.

[zambenini]

My financial plan means I always drive old, paid-for cars or ride a bike, but I would happily buy a Cybertruck.

Elon is winning my heart with the Crew Dragon launch, commitment to US manufacturing, and the fact that Cybertruck is priced competitively compared to other trucks both domestic or imported. Tacomas are outrageously expensive for having once been the benchmark affordable truck. F150s, 250s, and 350s are awesome but bananas expensive when kitted out. I don't understand the truck market. $49k for the three motor 4x4 Tesla? Not calling that a bargain, but sheesh, GM and Ford have like $95K trucks now.

Edit: I just saw the Musk problem, lol. Eh, well, someone detesting Elon Musk probably does more to them than it does to him, haha.

[Onno]

My cousin, in the Netherlands, does consulting for car dealerships on conversion to electric cars. He tells me that they are all terrified because electric cars will need a small fraction of the service that internal combustion cars need, and so dealerships will lose a lot of repair business. Makes sense to me.

[Polyglot]

Taking advice from people who have never experienced EV ownership and have never driven an EV is a very poor idea. I have been driving electric for 5 years now and can well understand the reluctance to buy any Musk product. We have absolutely loved the cars we have had and would not currently ever consider another ICE car.

You must however understand that an electric car is not like an ICE car and you should likely look at the selection using different search criteria than what you use for a gasoline car. If you have home charging, you will quickly find that you save an inordinate amount of time compared to ICE vehicles. Simply plug the car in every time you leave the car in the garage and virtually all Americans will be able to live with as little 150 miles range for 99.9% of their driving needs. For the exceptional trip that goes beyond 150 miles between parking/charging sessions in your garage, you can simply charge up at a fast charger. Overall, you will still be able to save an inordinate amount of time when compared to an ICE car. Most people think about range needs based upon how you are required to think with an ICE car. I would therefore question the need for 300 mile range. Our BMW i3 with range extender can do 200 miles plus out the door using the combined electric range and the recharge provided while driving using the gas-powered on-board generator. We have done a few trips in excess of 500 miles in a day, as well as a number of 400 mile days and have not found any inconvenience charging along the way and found the total travel times to be very close to what we would require in an ICE car. The biggest difference is that when recharging you can actually accomplish things instead of needing to stand with your car. So when on a long trip you can walk the dogs or go for a meal or the like. Since for most people these long trips are very rare, you shouldn't worry too too much about this rare need to recharge out in the wild. As far as what you will be able to buy in 3 years time, you will need a crystal ball to guess that.

[ERK55]

A while back I asked a co-worker with a Tesla how often they need servicing.
He hesitated a moment and said “Well eventually you’ll need to replace the brakes, and tires”.

[AngryScientist]

virtually all Americans will be able to live with as little 150 miles range for 99.9% of their driving needs.

haha. what a statement!

virtually all americans! this may be your opinion, but it is absolutely NOT true for virtually all americans and definitely not 99.9% of their driving needs.

[bfd]

My cousin, in the Netherlands, does consulting for car dealerships on conversion to electric cars. He tells me that they are all terrified because electric cars will need a small fraction of the service that internal combustion cars need, and so dealerships will lose a lot of repair business. Makes sense to me.

This is the same argument that is scaring the UAW and causing opposition to EVs. But reality is here. Yes, we don't need what 10 automatic transmission when a one-speed will do. These auto mfrs and their dealerships will have to adjust. What's that saying, innovate or die?!

As for the Elon Musk/Tesla haters, they're far out in front of the market, so you all need to get over it. Most traditional mfrs are aiming to "match" Tesla 300+ mile range by 2021/22 - Ford Mustang Mach-e, BMW i4, MBZ EQS and VW with its id.3 to name a few. The id3 is most frustrating as supposedly VW has built like 30k cars, but they are overwhelmed and can't get their software together. I think the over-the-air (OTA) updates that Tesla pioneered is killing them.

But they're like 2 years away and maybe longer and guess what, Tesla is not sitting around. Tesla is working on a cheaper, longer lasting battery (roadrunner), plus will have even more performance with its "plaid" powertrain. Finally, even if the trad mfrs can match Tesla's range, where are they going to charge? Tesla has the best charging network in the world, period. Yes, Electrify America (EA) is coming, but it is nowhere near Tesla.

So, good luck waiting!

[pasadena]

EV's account for 2% of the domestic car market
Even with fast growth, there are not a lot of choices. Repair shops are safe for a few decades at least.

People have an appliance mentality with EV's. They think of them like a iphone and are willing to pay $50-60k+ for a completely unproven, unknown company product.

EV's are more simple in theory but vehicles are very complex products.
ICE have 100 years of development. Ironically, some of the largest issues are now electronics and computer systems, so don't think EV = reliable, trouble free products.
EV's will require repair shops to specialize in different problems, but the motor is but one part of a vehicle.

Toyota hybrids are amazing right now. They have the thermal efficiency up to 40% on their latest motors and the hybrid technology is both highly efficient and highly reliable. Huge feat, considering it has two complex systems integrated.



My cousin, in the Netherlands, does consulting for car dealerships on conversion to electric cars. He tells me that they are all terrified because electric cars will need a small fraction of the service that internal combustion cars need, and so dealerships will lose a lot of repair business. Makes sense to me.

[bicycletricycle]

"will be able to live with" is an interesting way to say it :)

haha. what a statement!

virtually all americans! this may be your opinion, but it is absolutely NOT true for virtually all americans and definitely not 99.9% of their driving needs.

[pasadena]

Economies of scale.
Tesla needs to be ahead of the main players just to survive.

VW is all-in, but it takes a lot of time to change a juggernaut global titan like VAG. I think they are not ready, but they will and they will offer a better product for cheaper price.
Toyota hasn't even started seriously into the EV mainstream. They already have planned for it with the TGNA platform, and once they get serious, again, they will pump out EV Highlanders and Camry's at a price and equipment level that Tesla can't match.

Tesla has the market, the vast majority of which is sold in California.
EV's are urban commuters and leisure vehicles. They are not mainstream yet.

VAG, Toyota/Lexus and other mainstream players don't have a Tesla charging network. They have something else- a dealership in nearly every city in America. Do you know how difficult it would be to add charging stations in each dealership? 1 day installation.
It's a lot more attractive to charge up at a dealership than a Walmart Tesla lot behind a dumpster.

Tesla needs to create a network because they are starting from zero. They need to be innovating because they know they are climbing Everest, and the giants haven't even woken up yet.



Tesla has the best charging network in the world, period. Yes, Electrify America (EA) is coming, but it is nowhere near Tesla.

So, good luck waiting!

[pjm]

This is the same argument that is scaring the UAW and causing opposition to EVs. But reality is here. Yes, we don't need what 10 automatic transmission when a one-speed will do. These auto mfrs and their dealerships will have to adjust. What's that saying, innovate or die?!

As for the Elon Musk/Tesla haters, they're far out in front of the market, so you all need to get over it. Most traditional mfrs are aiming to "match" Tesla 300+ mile range by 2021/22 - Ford Mustang Mach-e, BMW i4, MBZ EQS and VW with its id.3 to name a few. The id3 is most frustrating as supposedly VW has built like 30k cars, but they are overwhelmed and can't get their software together. I think the over-the-air (OTA) updates that Tesla pioneered is killing them.

But they're like 2 years away and maybe longer and guess what, Tesla is not sitting around. Tesla is working on a cheaper, longer lasting battery (roadrunner), plus will have even more performance with its "plaid" powertrain. Finally, even if the trad mfrs can match Tesla's range, where are they going to charge? Tesla has the best charging network in the world, period. Yes, Electrify America (EA) is coming, but it is nowhere near Tesla.

So, good luck waiting!

Tesla really needs to address its quality control issues. What you see in this video is unacceptable in a brand new car, and it seems to be fairly common.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=St8AiSjGpsc

[verticaldoug]

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/vehicles/passenger-cars/eqc/the-new-eqc/

I believe the EQC hit showrooms in the UK. Not sure when it will hit showrooms in US, but range is a little short. 259 mi and price will be like an existing GLC.

London has charge stations set up on the street in Belgravia and other neighborhoods.

I'd expect charging plug adapters to become available so if you wanted to pull into a I-95 service area you can charge your car regardless of brand.

I'm curious what the EQS will really look like next year.

The Mustang Mach E looks nicer than either the Y or 3 in my opinion with comparable range and price point.

Ford is supposedly building the F-150 E and be interesting to see if they deliver it before the Tesla delivers his truck.

[bfd]

Economies of scale.
Tesla needs to be ahead of the main players just to survive.

VW is all-in, but it takes a lot of time to change a juggernaut global titan like VAG. I think they are not ready, but they will and they will offer a better product for cheaper price.
Toyota hasn't even started seriously into the EV mainstream. They already have planned for it with the TGNA platform, and once they get serious, again, they will pump out EV Highlanders and Camry's at a price and equipment level that Tesla can't match.

Tesla has the market, the vast majority of which is sold in California.
EV's are urban commuters and leisure vehicles. They are not mainstream yet.

VAG, Toyota/Lexus and other mainstream players don't have a Tesla charging network. They have something else- a dealership in nearly every city in America. Do you know how difficult it would be to add charging stations in each dealership? 1 day installation.
It's a lot more attractive to charge up at a dealership than a Walmart Tesla lot behind a dumpster.

Tesla needs to create a network because they are starting from zero. They need to be innovating because they know they are climbing Everest, and the giants haven't even woken up yet.

Agree, if VW and Toyota/Honda can sell an EV with 300 mile range for $25K, then they will dominate. But according to this article, Toyota engineers say they are at least 5 years behind Tesla.

https://electrek.co/2020/02/17/tesla-teardown-6-years-lead-over-toyota-vw/

It also appears from the article that one thing they're concerned about is the parts supply line that they have developed?! Really, EVs need suppliers too? If this is true, then these suppliers also need to "innovate or die!"

Moreover, you earlier praised Toyota hybrid. As a Prius owner, they're pretty efficient for a gas-powered car. But I was surprised that Toyota has never updated the hybrid to use Li-on batteries instead of relying on the old NiMH that is currently used.

Tesla is a premium brand and is killing the luxury car market. Big expensive ICE vehicles like MBZ S-Class, BMW 7-Series and Lexus LS are dying as people are choosing a Tesla. As long as it continues to innovate, Tesla will be fine. Look at the up and coming Cybertruck, it will replace the Escalade and other big SUVs as "the status" car to get! LOL

[coreyaugustus]

I'm saving my pennies for the Cybertruck. It's a Giorgetto Giugiaro wet dream.

Will take a while for those pennies to stack up though.

[jtakeda]

haha. what a statement!

virtually all americans! this may be your opinion, but it is absolutely NOT true for virtually all americans and definitely not 99.9% of their driving needs.

For real.

I can’t even go round trip to target in 149 miles.

But I will admit that 75% of my driving could be accommodated by electric. But 75% could also be accommodated by a Honda CH80 which gets 100 mpg

The rivian is definitely interesting but I would need to be assured that it could be maintained close by and also would need to get some info about the battery and toxicity/environmental impact.
I think if we can figure out how to make the battery less toxic, than electric is an exciting proposition because there are so many ways to create electricity but until then it’s equally as polluting

Also OP: does 5 dogs mean 5 pomeranians?or 5 great danes?

[pbarry]

Chevy Volt should tick most of the OP's boxes. 260 mile range. Dealers were selling 2019's this summer for the mid 20k's.

[pasadena]

Toyota uses NiMH or LiON depending on application, supply and econoomics.

All Toyota plug-in hybrids use LiON because of the superior charging capability.
All AWD hybrids use NiMH because of the superior charge retention in cold weather.
Both have similar sudden charge capacity that hybrids need, so they pick based on application and other production factors.

S class and executive german sedan owners are not buying Model s's. Tesla is not a luxury vehicle. The interior space cannot compare, nor does it offer any of the features needed for an executive sedan.
Cybertruck is a 4 door pickup with limited range. Most that buy Navigator/Escalades are looking for a full size suv that can tow 5000k+.


Agree, if VW and Toyota/Honda can sell an EV with 300 mile range for $25K, then they will dominate. But according to this article, Toyota engineers say they are at least 5 years behind Tesla.

https://electrek.co/2020/02/17/tesla-teardown-6-years-lead-over-toyota-vw/

It also appears from the article that one thing they're concerned about is the parts supply line that they have developed?! Really, EVs need suppliers too? If this is true, then these suppliers also need to "innovate or die!"

Moreover, you earlier praised Toyota hybrid. As a Prius owner, they're pretty efficient for a gas-powered car. But I was surprised that Toyota has never updated the hybrid to use Li-on batteries instead of relying on the old NiMH that is currently used.

Tesla is a premium brand and is killing the luxury car market. Big expensive ICE vehicles like MBZ S-Class, BMW 7-Series and Lexus LS are dying as people are choosing a Tesla. As long as it continues to innovate, Tesla will be fine. Look at the up and coming Cybertruck, it will replace the Escalade and other big SUVs as "the status" car to get! LOL

[pasadena]

Volt is a 4 seat sedan with small trunk and is no longer being made.

Bolt based EV's are supposed to forthcoming, but nothing yet.

Chevy Volt should tick most of the OP's boxes. 260 mile range. Dealers were selling 2019's this summer for the mid 20k's.

[buddybikes]

Prius --- Not exciting but 100% reliable

[Moneywatch]

The new 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. Can go 42 miles on EV mode but has a hybrid gas engine for the long trips. 0 to 60 mph in under 6 seconds!
Unfortunately, the 2020 production to the US is 5,000 vehicles and 20,000 for next year.
Foerme, this vehicle offers the best compromise.

[pasadena]

I believe the Rav4 Prime is already sold out
This is the motor development I was talking about. Toyota really refined the technology here.
The Rav4 Prime really gives most drivers EV capability with none of the range downside.
I hope Toyota offers this in more models.

The new 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. Can go 42 miles on EV mode but has a hybrid gas engine for the long trips. 0 to 60 mph in under 6 seconds!
Unfortunately, the 2020 production to the US is 5,000 vehicles and 20,000 for next year.
Foerme, this vehicle offers the best compromise.

[pbarry]

My bad. The Chevy BOLT is a hatchback EV, introduced in 2017. Range is 260 miles. Updated model due in 2021.

I like the last two years of the VOLT, as I have a 40 mile round trip commute, so my commute miles would be all electric, yet they're would be no range anxiety on a long road trip, when it would be in hybrid mode after the first 50 miles on electric. :)
Volt is a 4 seat sedan with small trunk and is no longer being made.

Bolt based EV's are supposed to forthcoming, but nothing yet.

[Smitty2k1]

My in-laws (retired) own a Volt in rural NC and absolutely love it. As mentioned it won't fit 5 dogs and isn't being made anymore.

I grew up in the town that Rivian is going to be manufacturing their vehicles in (used to be the Mitsubishi factory) and people there seem to be pretty excited to have Rivian around. Seems like it isn't just "vaporware" especially with that huge 100,000 vehicle order from Amazon that was just announced.

I want nothing to do with Tesla, despite their great tech and the fact they are actually delivering vehicles these days.

[mistermo]

As for the Elon Musk/Tesla haters, they're far out in front of the market, so you all need to get over it. Most traditional mfrs are aiming to "match" Tesla 300+ mile range by 2021/22 - Ford Mustang Mach-e, BMW i4, MBZ EQS and VW with its id.3 to name a few. The id3 is most frustrating as supposedly VW has built like 30k cars, but they are overwhelmed and can't get their software together. I think the over-the-air (OTA) updates that Tesla pioneered is killing them.

But they're like 2 years away and maybe longer and guess what, Tesla is not sitting around. Tesla is working on a cheaper, longer lasting battery (roadrunner), plus will have even more performance with its "plaid" powertrain. Finally, even if the trad mfrs can match Tesla's range, where are they going to charge? Tesla has the best charging network in the world, period. Yes, Electrify America (EA) is coming, but it is nowhere near Tesla.

So, good luck waiting!

^Truth. You can hate Musk all you want, but you won't satisfy your 300mile requirement unless it's a Tesla. Outside of Tesla, which car has a range in excess of 300 miles? Tesla is 2yrs away from 400-450 range and Ford is still trying to achieve 300 miles! And you won't fit five dogs in a Mustang. Porsche, VW, Audi, Jag, Nissan, BMW, can't barely hit 250, let alone crack 275.

For sure, Tesla is overhyped as the most valuable car company in the world. For sure, Musk is polarizing. But the choice of an EV is really very simple at this point. Once range, charging network, and tech are factored into it, Tesla has a lead that won't be supplanted for at least five years, probably longer.

[weaponsgrade]

It's not fully electric, but I'm really excited about plunking down for the hybrid Sienna that's supposed to be coming out later this year. The CRV I have just doesn't have the room for hauling all the camping and bike gear for a 2-kid family.

[Toddtwenty2]

Rivian without a doubt.

It’s the main thing keeping me from buying a bronco.

This is EXACTLY where my head is at.

The whole package is beautiful, but I especially love the dashboards.

[54ny77]

I'm looking forward to the C8 Z06 with a 5+ liter flat plane crank. Should be incredible.

Long live dinosaur juice!

Oh wait, wrong thread....

:)

[mtechnica]

I want an electric car but they’re all bad besides Teslas.

[mtechnica]

A bolt is probably the next best thing, besides that you’re gonna spend 60+ on a polestar, 80-90 for a rivian you can’t buy, 100 for some of the fancy stuff.

[Morgul Bismark]

My wife is getting a new MINI Electric. It's been built and now on a ship. Range is ~125 miles, but that works perfectly with our needs. This will be a third car and will be a commuter car for her (round trip commute is ~30 miles).

Hopefully it will be here in late August.

[dan_hudson]

Surprised no one mentioned Lucid (https://lucidmotors.com). Only checks the first few boxes though and I gather fails the last one pretty spectacularly (but not as badly as the Porsche).

My wife has insisted (and I agree) that our next car must be electric. We have a couple of years to wait on this, but the only thing I like researching more than a next car purchase is a next bike purchase, so I've already begun digging around. This is what she wants in an electric car:

--range of 300 miles
--can hold 5 dogs (our pack)
--looks good (i.e. not boxy or heavy or transformery)
--has nothing to do with Elon Musk (whom she detests)
--does not have leather seats (she's vegan)
--does not break the bank

I have high hopes for the VW ID4 or ID5 (the Vizzion?). But who knows when they will be out. Anything else I should be looking at?

[alancw3]

I think that once the manufacturers can achieve an honest 400+ mileage range electric cars will become much more accepted as an alternative to ICE powered cars by the general car buying public. from what I read that might be w/i 2-3 years. with fast easy charging i.e. drive over capabilities at a comparable price. then I would not be buying BIG OIL company's stock.

[paredown]

<snip> Simply plug the car in every time you leave the car in the garage and virtually all Americans will be able to live with as little 150 miles range for 99.9% of their driving needs. For the exceptional trip that goes beyond 150 miles between parking/charging sessions in your garage, you can simply charge up at a fast charger. Overall, you will still be able to save an inordinate amount of time when compared to an ICE car. Most people think about range needs based upon how you are required to think with an ICE car. I would therefore question the need for 300 mile range. Our BMW i3 with range extender can do 200 miles plus out the door using the combined electric range and the recharge provided while driving using the gas-powered on-board generator. We have done a few trips in excess of 500 miles in a day, as well as a number of 400 mile days and have not found any inconvenience charging along the way and found the total travel times to be very close to what we would require in an ICE car. The biggest difference is that when recharging you can actually accomplish things instead of needing to stand with your car. So when on a long trip you can walk the dogs or go for a meal or the like. Since for most people these long trips are very rare, you shouldn't worry too too much about this rare need to recharge out in the wild. As far as what you will be able to buy in 3 years time, you will need a crystal ball to guess that.
Thanks for sharing your real world experience with the I3--I have to say, I have had a crush on those cars, and when they were coming off lease a couple of years ago, I could not believe the bargains.

And for us--yes, range in that magnitude would work just fine for most of what we do.

[Marvinlungwitz]

.

[CNY rider]

It's not fully electric, but I'm really excited about plunking down for the hybrid Sienna that's supposed to be coming out later this year. The CRV I have just doesn't have the room for hauling all the camping and bike gear for a 2-kid family.

What's the allure of this hybrid combination?
I get internal combustion.....and why we should move away from it.
I get all electric. Especially when you look at all the maintenance problems associated with IC engines that go away when you go electric.
But doesn't this Toyota platform give me the worst of all worlds? I still have to service an IC engine, burn gasoline, change oil etc. PLUS I have complex electronics that my local repair guy probably won't deal with which will force me to shlep back to the dealer's service department.

Help me out here.:confused::confused:

[AngryScientist]

What's the allure of this hybrid combination?
I get internal combustion.....and why we should move away from it.
I get all electric. Especially when you look at all the maintenance problems associated with IC engines that go away when you go electric.
But doesn't this Toyota platform give me the worst of all worlds? I still have to service an IC engine, burn gasoline, change oil etc. PLUS I have complex electronics that my local repair guy probably won't deal with which will force me to shlep back to the dealer's service department.

Help me out here.:confused::confused:

i think for 2021, the sienna is only going to be offered as a hybrid. no gas only option.

it's a gamble for toyota, and they are hoping the additional (potential) 10 mpg will be enough to sway shoppers to buy them.

i have no interest in a hybrid minivan. under best case scenario, an extra 10 or so mpg is not worth the additional cost and complexity of hhe hybrid drivetrain. if i remember reading about it too, i think the new van is down something like 30 hp from the outgoing v6 van, and probably heavier with the batteries.

As we know, as the vehicle ages, and goes through different seasons, the battery efficiency drops significantly, and eventually needs replacement.

i guess for a person who is into a vehicle for short-term ownership. like a lease when the van is always under warranty - the additional mpg might be worthwhile.

for people like me that keep a vehicle until they are dead dead dead - the hybrid is a negative.

[Onno]

What's the allure of this hybrid combination?
I get internal combustion.....and why we should move away from it.
I get all electric. Especially when you look at all the maintenance problems associated with IC engines that go away when you go electric.
But doesn't this Toyota platform give me the worst of all worlds? I still have to service an IC engine, burn gasoline, change oil etc. PLUS I have complex electronics that my local repair guy probably won't deal with which will force me to shlep back to the dealer's service department.

Help me out here.:confused::confused:

I really agree with this. Hybrid cars solve some problems (range), but at the cost of huge added complexity. I'm sure they've gotten better than my wife's current Prius V (2013), which can basically only coast in EV mode, but hybrids strike me as a Rube Goldberg solution, and one that luxury vehicle makers (Lexus, Volvo) seem to be jumping on as a form of green washing, and as a way of justifying ever higher price tags. I don't need electric motors to get me up to 400 hp; I need them to get me 300 miles efficiently.

[Columbus SLX]

I went through this entire discussion cycle a couple years ago, with my 50 mile r/t commute (less relevant today in the quarantines) and this is where I wound up. 20 years old, 58mpg, runs like new after 200k, never rusts.

You can't fit 5 ferrets in it, not to mention 5 dogs—so this thread is of interest again as our family wagon (Saab 93 manual in the background) continues to age, and its plastic parts begin to crack and fail.

[NHAero]

I bought a plug-in hybrid 2 years ago with some reluctance, in the sense that as others have said it's a dual fuel drivetrain. As with Angry, I tend to keep cars a long time (others are a 2008 Fit and 2001 base Ranger!). We had a surplus of solar electricity for which I can't be paid, and we live on an island. So the PHEV is essentially an EV on the island, and a 50+ mpg hybrid on the highway when we leave. I ended up with a Hyundai Ioniq after considering four cars. Same outside dimensions roughly as the Chevy Volt but much better interior space because it has 1/2 the battery (and range). The Prius version's CVT - I hate it. I had a Prius, it was like driving a miniature Oldsmobile. Great car technically but zero fun to drive.

The Hyundai after tax credits cost me $20K. I also liked that Hyundai has the longest warranty in the business.

So very specific set of requirements and ended up with a PHEV. Would have liked a pure EV, but almost every time I leave the island (pre-Covid) I'm going farther than any EV except a Tesla S, and I am not owning a $100K car.

[oldpotatoe]

My cousin, in the Netherlands, does consulting for car dealerships on conversion to electric cars. He tells me that they are all terrified because electric cars will need a small fraction of the service that internal combustion cars need, and so dealerships will lose a lot of repair business. Makes sense to me.

I wouldn't be 'terrified' quite yet. As long as gas is in the sub $3 range, that around 2% of so of electric vs gas cars is probably going to stay the same for quite a while. 255 million+ gas/diesel fueled vehicles on the road today. Until range and recharge gets dramatically improved, I just don't see it for a decade or more. People buy convenience, not having to search for a charging station when trying to drive to Grandma's. E-car gotta be as convenient as a gas car. Few buy one cuz 'it's good for the environment'. Now, the Netherlands could very easily 'mandate' all e-cars by such and such date..not gonna happen in the US.

[whateveronfire]

A while back I asked a co-worker with a Tesla how often they need servicing.
He hesitated a moment and said “Well eventually you’ll need to replace the brakes, and tires”.

I wish that had been my experience. I had a very early Model S and it just started to have totally rando things go wrong with it. For example, it just started opening its rear door. When I asked the tech if the other doors were going to start doing it, he said probably. I had an extended warranty, but was laying out $250 deductibles every few months (at best) and more often every few weeks.

[Spaghetti Legs]

^Truth. You can hate Musk all you want, but you won't satisfy your 300mile requirement unless it's a Tesla. Outside of Tesla, which car has a range in excess of 300 miles? Tesla is 2yrs away from 400-450 range and Ford is still trying to achieve 300 miles! And you won't fit five dogs in a Mustang. Porsche, VW, Audi, Jag, Nissan, BMW, can't barely hit 250, let alone crack 275.

For sure, Tesla is overhyped as the most valuable car company in the world. For sure, Musk is polarizing. But the choice of an EV is really very simple at this point. Once range, charging network, and tech are factored into it, Tesla has a lead that won't be supplanted for at least five years, probably longer.

I 100% agree. Another consideration is charging infrastructure which Tesla has locked up with their Supercharger network. Other makers, you’ll have to rely on a disorganized network of lower capacity chargers and widely spaced Chademo chargers. That’s only a consideration for road trips of course, but if you’re not doing that, then just get a Leaf or i3. A year or so ago, after seeing one on the road, I looked into the Audi eTron - same price as a Model S with something like a 200 mile range and no Superchargers. No comparison.

I ordered my Model S in 2012 because I’d long wanted 100% BEV that I could drive to the next town and back and fit 1 or 2 bikes inside. I still have it and love it, will probably replace it with another in a year or two. Before that I drove a Plug In Prius (wife still drives that one) and it’s a great car but it would drive me ape***** when the gas engine would turn on to warm up the battery in winter or if I wanted to use heat or AC. That being said, from pure personal economic standpoint, especially with gas as cheap as it is, plug in hybrid is the way to go.

Musk is a nut job now and I get the animus toward him but you could probably find reasons for personal/political dislike of CEOs of many of these other automakers. No question in my mind for now, Tesla is the way to go for a do everything electric car. At some point I think Tesla will license out their charger network, so that will broaden appeal of other brands.

[pdxharth]

Who knows what the actual timeline will be, but GM has said they are introducing a crossover version of the Bolt:

https://electrek.co/2020/03/04/chevy-bolt-euv-announced-with-supercruise-longer-wheelbase-and-improved-design/

[p nut]

EV would have to be a 3rd or 4th car for us. Things are a bit more spread out here in the west. Plus, not many charging stations at places we like to frequent...

https://i0.wp.com/blog-assets.thedyrt.com/uploads/2018/09/shutterstock_1124129954-compressor.jpg?resize=1000%2C750&ssl=1

[William]

EV would have to be a 3rd or 4th car for us. Things are a bit more spread out here in the west. Plus, not many charging stations at places we like to frequent...

https://i0.wp.com/blog-assets.thedyrt.com/uploads/2018/09/shutterstock_1124129954-compressor.jpg?resize=1000%2C750&ssl=1


We pretty much fall under that umbrella as well. Maybe eventually one for putzing around town but much of what we do these days is far and wide with little to no charging stations around.





W.

[Kirk007]

Just ordered an e mini copper, primarily for my wife. Doesn't meet OP's critieria but for Bainbridge Island + it should be perfect. Performance is supposed to be very close to the Cooper S. Fun to drive, easy to park in the City and good for the economy = winning.

[Morgul Bismark]

Just ordered an e mini copper, primarily for my wife. Doesn't meet OP's critieria but for Bainbridge Island + it should be perfect. Performance is supposed to be very close to the Cooper S. Fun to drive, easy to park in the City and good for the economy = winning.

We really enjoyed our test drive a few months ago. Hope to have ours in about a month. My wife basically rebuilt her gas MINI Cooper as an Electric MINI (same colors and options). It will join our 2020 JCW Clubman.

[mistermo]

It's really more simple than people admit. If you intend to use the car solely as a commuter, then there's lots of choices. If you intend to drive more than 200 miles at once, Tesla has the ONLY viable charging network that allows this. Tesla is the ONLY car that will allow you to drive cross-country and charge along the way (in reasonable times). Not only is their battery technology superior, their charging network is too.

Again, hate Musk all you wish, but Tesla is MANY years ahead of the rest. I have trouble seeing how their market valuation represents reality, but their market valuation reflects their overwhelming lead on other car companies, in many, many areas.

[Steve in SLO]

I leased a Fiat 500e for three years and they had a brilliant add-on: Two weeks of free car rental each year so that you can take a family vacation without having to have a second car. That was a great commute machine. I am sold on electricity as the future of cars. I have no interest in buying another gas car, but will wait a few years to buy an electric, since battery pack range/weight will come down fairly rapidly as the tech advances. Would love to see the holy grail of an at least partially exchangeable battery so that on road trips you can exchange batteries as you go, rather than charge.

[verticaldoug]

It's really more simple than people admit. If you intend to use the car solely as a commuter, then there's lots of choices. If you intend to drive more than 200 miles at once, Tesla has the ONLY viable charging network that allows this. Tesla is the ONLY car that will allow you to drive cross-country and charge along the way (in reasonable times). Not only is their battery technology superior, their charging network is too.

Again, hate Musk all you wish, but Tesla is MANY years ahead of the rest. I have trouble seeing how their market valuation represents reality, but their market valuation reflects their overwhelming lead on other car companies, in many, many areas.

Without doubt he had the vision, the issue is once the model is working, it should be straight forward to copy.
https://www.petro-canada.ca/en/personal/fuel/canadas-electric-highway

FORD alone has 11,000 dealers which are mostly independently owned. These local businesses should be able to adapt.

Plus just think the number of service stations that may change and be a mini-mart + supercharge. At some point, the charging connector becomes standardized.

[pdxharth]

This is what we have now, too. We own a Leaf that my wife uses daily. Last fall we added a Ford C-Max Energi plug in hybrid that gets 18 miles all electric. My commute is 30 miles round trip, so when I need to drive to work, my wife takes the Ford and I take the Leaf and we don’t use any gas. In fact, we filled up the Ford in early October and just had to put gas in again in late July for our trip to Crater Lake.

We’ve been camping in the Ford a few times now - including a great mountain biking trip to Mt Hood last weekend - and it’s great. Fully loaded with two bikes on the back, we got 38mpg after the electric miles are used up, holds all our camping gear (which was a concern), and it drives way better than my old 97 Subie wagon.


I bought a plug-in hybrid 2 years ago with some reluctance, in the sense that as others have said it's a dual fuel drivetrain. As with Angry, I tend to keep cars a long time (others are a 2008 Fit and 2001 base Ranger!). We had a surplus of solar electricity for which I can't be paid, and we live on an island. So the PHEV is essentially an EV on the island, and a 50+ mpg hybrid on the highway when we leave. I ended up with a Hyundai Ioniq after considering four cars. Same outside dimensions roughly as the Chevy Volt but much better interior space because it has 1/2 the battery (and range). The Prius version's CVT - I hate it. I had a Prius, it was like driving a miniature Oldsmobile. Great car technically but zero fun to drive.

The Hyundai after tax credits cost me $20K. I also liked that Hyundai has the longest warranty in the business.

So very specific set of requirements and ended up with a PHEV. Would have liked a pure EV, but almost every time I leave the island (pre-Covid) I'm going farther than any EV except a Tesla S, and I am not owning a $100K car.

[Bob Ross]

I misread the thread title and thought OP was asking about "electric guitars"!

I just got this solid Padouk body custom made from Warmoth Guitars, and a matching neck with ebony fingerboard is incoming shortly.

https://i.postimg.cc/wBfXg78G/Padouk-body.jpg

Will flesh it out with (3) Seymour Duncan Vintage Rail pickups, Schaller M6 tuners, and a Schaller 475 fixed bridge.


But cars, geez, no... I haven't been excited about a car in probably decades. Or at least, not excited enough to actually think about buying one.

[spank]

I leased a Fiat 500e for three years and they had a brilliant add-on: Two weeks of free car rental each year so that you can take a family vacation without having to have a second car. That was a great commute machine. I am sold on electricity as the future of cars. I have no interest in buying another gas car, but will wait a few years to buy an electric, since battery pack range/weight will come down fairly rapidly as the tech advances. Would love to see the holy grail of an at least partially exchangeable battery so that on road trips you can exchange batteries as you go, rather than charge.

BRILLIANT!

We currently are leasing a Fiat 500e; sadly, it did not come with that. But I really do like that concept of an included 2-week rental car (should be another chrysler product, I'd think, to continue promoting the brand).

We are in the final 6 months of our lease. I've read where the next generation of 500e will have a 200+ range.

The things that suck about the 500e are that the seats are way too high so even someone under 6' cant sit up straight and see comfortably out of the windscreen and 2, the back seat is garbage for anyone over 5'.

I tried to convince my wife that we should have leased the Kia Soul electric, for it's 4-doors, storage space, similar price and range, but they didn't have it in ... Orange. (sigh).

I would encourage you to look at the Kia Soul electric. The US was SUPPOSED to receive an improved range 200+ mile version in late 2019, but that never happened. They actually released it to the rest of the world but not the US market because they were meeting the US demand with the lower range cars and were using their production resources to supply the greater range models in markets that demanded them.

[enr1co]

I misread the thread title and thought OP was asking about "electric guitars"!

I just got this solid Padouk body custom made from Warmoth Guitars, and a matching neck with ebony fingerboard is incoming shortly.

https://i.postimg.cc/wBfXg78G/Padouk-body.jpg

Will flesh it out with (3) Seymour Duncan Vintage Rail pickups, Schaller M6 tuners, and a Schaller 475 fixed bridge.


But cars, geez, no... I haven't been excited about a car in probably decades. Or at least, not excited enough to actually think about buying one.

Beautiful figure on that Padouk! What are the tonal characteristics of this wood, i.e. similar to mahogany , alder or swamp ash? Tele style bodies are my fave- Just picked up a used 2006 MIJ 72’ reissue Tele custom from Dave’s Guitars, Lacrosse WI and loving it! Have fun w/ your build!

To stay on topic have had my Model S since 14’. Best car purchase experience and lowest total cost of ownership ever. Lifetime supercharger use with a couple stations 2 miles from home so no gas expense. Got new tires at 45k miles. Brakes pads still good. May pick up some new wipers for the fall.

[Bob Ross]

Whats the tonal characteristics of this wood, i.e. similar to mahogany , alder or swamp ash?

From all reports (having never played a solid Padouk body myself, this was my Leap Of Faith project) it should be similar to none of those; rather, more like those solid rosewood Telecasters that Fender offered in very limited numbers and/or that Schecter built back when they were a bespoke American brand.

In other words, very bright, twangy, spanky. At least I hope so.

[AngryScientist]

ok, just found an electric car to get excited about. bugatti baby II. projected to cost under 35k. now we're talking!

https://s.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/1049x590/quality/80/https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2020/07/24063656/bugatti-baby-2-724-5.jpg

[bikinchris]

Tesla really needs to address its quality control issues. What you see in this video is unacceptable in a brand new car, and it seems to be fairly common.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=St8AiSjGpsc

Tesla was named the lowest quality vehicle company by J.D. Power this week.they had far and away the most complaints from owners.

[bikinchris]

I like the Morris van. Not cheap, but cute.

[Tickdoc]

There’s only been one electric vehicle I’ve ever been truly excited about. So much so I put a refundable deposit down on it. Thank god It was refundable because when pricing was announced it more than doubled. It wouldve been the perfect vehicle for me and my dog.

Maybe some day one will pop up used at a reasonable amount. Maybe.

Sorry to ruin the thread with the gargantuan pic. The jpeg info says small but I don’t know how to resize other than that.

https://bollingermotors.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/06-small.jpg

[pasadena]

I saw the Bollinger in person and spoke to the owner of the company (or maybe a rep)
It's the perfect truck/suv for people that really use them. It would make a fantastic work truck, camping and wheeling rig... just very well thought out work truck. Plenty of easy access to modify and customize easily...really impressive, and the quality simplicity that trucks no longer are anymore.

The packaging is revolutionary, and every EV needs to study this because they are the only ones who truly innovated packaging.

The real issue is battery technology. It's max is 200miles, and that automatically keeps it in the urban or farm worktruck market. It's just too expensive for those types and not enough range for the high-profit leisure crowd.

Impressive though, and they were smart to keep prices high and maintain quality. They need to compete with the Icon's of the world as a niche EV, until they can get that range up.

There’s only been one electric vehicle I’ve ever been truly excited about. So much so I put a refundable deposit down on it. Thank god It was refundable because when pricing was announced it more than doubled. It wouldve been the perfect vehicle for me and my dog.

Maybe some day one will pop up used at a reasonable amount. Maybe.

Sorry to ruin the thread with the gargantuan pic. The jpeg info says small but I don’t know how to resize other than that.

https://www.tfltruck.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/bollinger-b1-sut-pass-through.jpg

[pbarry]

I like the Morris van. Not cheap, but cute.

Want! :)

[bfd]

ok, just found an electric car to get excited about. bugatti baby II. projected to cost under 35k. now we're talking!

https://s.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/1049x590/quality/80/https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2020/07/24063656/bugatti-baby-2-724-5.jpg

Lol, it is a nice looking car, but that Bugatti will need a lot of work make it legal to drive here in CA! Things like bumpers, smog, windshield, side mirrors and probably other things will be needed. By the time they're done, that car will probably be in excess of $60k here in CA....Good Luck!

[AngryScientist]

Lol, it is a nice looking car, but that Bugatti will need a lot of work make it legal to drive here in CA! Things like bumpers, smog, windshield, side mirrors and probably other things will be needed. By the time they're done, that car will probably be in excess of $60k here in CA....Good Luck!

yea, that's a good point - except the smog part! :banana::banana:

[pasadena]

Not exactly road worthy size... it's a fancy kids pedalcar
https://assets.bugatti.com/fileadmin/_processed_/sei/p419/se-image-d5dd60d54d718c639c72041e4b1d2840.jpghttps://img.autoplus.fr/picture/2020/07/24/1549290/photo_5_d2be2-1200-800.jpg

[tigoat]

Tesla Cybertruck and Rivian R1T truck are on my wish list.

[alancw3]

I am not a truck person but that being said I wold be interested in the cyber truck