National Park Service - C’mon Man!

[Spaghetti Legs]

This summer as the heat and humidity have stifled, I’ve been spending more time on Skyline and Blue Ridge Parkway where it’s usually 10-15 degrees cooler. I’ve never seen , except maybe at fall colors time, as many people up there. Streams of cars, campgrounds all full. Past few rides have been on Skyline so today was first ride on BRP in a couple of weeks and looks like they’ve decided now is the right time to chip seal the north end. Great call! I rode a small road parallel to the Parkway and linked back 5 miles in and still thick, loose gravel and dust there too. My last experience with this further south a coupLe of years ago, they did about a 25-30 mile stretch at once and BTW, from the bike riding standpoint the road quality was worse when they were done than before they started.

I know these things are often planned and paid for years in advance but cmon, it’s clear this is where the mid Atlantic is going to get away from home this summer. These exceptional times demand better leadership than this. Someone at NPS should have been paying attention and stepped in.

[tomato coupe]

I'm surprised they didn't check with you before they scheduled road maintenance. That's not very considerate of them.

[RWL2222]

That's too bad but we wanna see your bike in the pic too!

[thwart]

Can't imagine descending the BRP on piles of road edge loose gravel from a recent chipseal... yikes. :eek:

Chipseal... cheaper than resurfacing... OK for cars... downright evil for bikes.

[charliedid]

Get a job!

[Spaghetti Legs]

I'm surprised they didn't check with you before they scheduled road maintenance. That's not very considerate of them.

I think you’d get the same sentiment from the drivers of the streams of cars passing by in the dust clouds. Large stretches of the Parkway were closed in April. Might have been a good time to get some work done then.

That's too bad but we wanna see your bike in the pic too!
Here ya go.

Get a job!

I have two.

[Hindmost]

If I had rolled out on that bike I'd be annoyed about the road surface too.

[Tickdoc]

sucks. I fought my city council for like 4 months before I could get them to replace chip seal with real asphalt. It has it's place, but not in town and not on highly trafficked roads.

At least you didn't go down or damage that beautiful bike.

[R3awak3n]

I know people often criticize all road/gravel bikes but this is the case where you woulda just rip through all that crap and probably actually enjoyed it. But yeah with that bike, its not going to be fun. Hell, even if you had a modern roadie. They are redoing the road that goes by my house and its all gravel now and getting out with the road bike its not fun and its probably like 1 miles of that.

[BobbyJones]

I see the problem. It's not a gravel bike.

Edit. ^^ beat me to it.

[Red Tornado]

I can commiserate.

A good while ago they repaved my road with asphalt. They did it right and and the road was like velvet. Everyone I spoke with loved driving on it and we cyclists loved riding on it. A year later they come through and put chip seal down, over the asphalt, with some of the largest stone "chips" I have ever seen. Basically destroyed a super nice road that was not showing any signs of damage or excessive wear to my untrained eye. It's taken probably 5-6 years for traffic to wear down the surface so that it doesn't feel like you're off-road while in your vehicle; still feels off road'ish on a bike because we're on the shoulder.

When questioned about the rationale, a buddy of mine that worked for TXDOT told me they probably had some excess material (hot mix or something like that, he called it) they needed to get rid of. Thought he was pulling my leg but he stuck to that story.

Happy riding!

[Spaghetti Legs]

I know people often criticize all road/gravel bikes but this is the case where you woulda just rip through all that crap and probably actually enjoyed it. But yeah with that bike, its not going to be fun. Hell, even if you had a modern roadie. They are redoing the road that goes by my house and its all gravel now and getting out with the road bike its not fun and its probably like 1 miles of that.

Actually this is one of my bikes I have “tuned” for gravel with 28 mm tires and a compact crank. It was going to be my Eroica bike this year. I did my own solo Eroica ride locally on it this year, including about 15 miles of gravel, hence the number tied to the top tube. Right at this spot the mostly paved side road I came up on turns into Dirt/rock pretty much MTB only down the mountain. I rode down it on my Colnago EPS last year. Won’t be trying that again. But no, this would not be fun, even on a gravel bike. Fine crushed completely dry gravel on top of a milled paved surface would be pretty dicey not to mention the dust and debris from cars passing by. Also kind of frustrating in that on previous rides it hadn’t crossed my mind that the asphalt was in bad shape.

[David Tollefson]

My county has a habit of doing a LOT of chip-seal every fall.

Why? Because if they don't use up the budget they have, it'll get cut the next year. Near my home town, they would do all the north/south roads one fall, and then all the east/west roads the next. :crap:

[johnniecakes]

Tough life you got there, hope the NPS compensates you appropriately.

[sg8357]

I see the problem. It's not a gravel bike.

Edit. ^^ beat me to it.

Blame the Gravel Bike Cabal, they're going around the country
chip n' sealing to drive g-bike sales.

[CNY rider]

You can't chip seal without cars to drive the stone in.

Here we run into the opposite issue than the OP has: The town highway department waits til fall to do chip seal on a rural road with few cars, it gets chilly out, and we end up with loose stone sitting all over in piles forever because it never got seated properly.

[charliedid]

I think you’d get the same sentiment from the drivers of the streams of cars passing by in the dust clouds. Large stretches of the Parkway were closed in April. Might have been a good time to get some work done then.


Here ya go.



I have two.

LOL of course you do....maybe I should get one :)

[unterhausen]

Doesn't Skyline cost $20 a pop? Or is there a yearly pass?

They chip sealed one of the roads near here, but the way they did it there was no loose gravel. I was impressed. Wish they would charge large trucks tolls on that road, it's ridiculous they can't drive 10 miles over on the hugely expensive interstate that they are avoiding for no good reason.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Doesn't Skyline cost $20 a pop? Or is there a yearly pass?

They chip sealed one of the roads near here, but the way they did it there was no loose gravel. I was impressed. Wish they would charge large trucks tolls on that road, it's ridiculous they can't drive 10 miles over on the hugely expensive interstate that they are avoiding for no good reason.

Annual pass for $55. Pays for itself in 3 visits. Skyline is spared the repaving for now.

Just to be clear for other posts, I wasn’t particularly ranting about the inconvenience to me - I’m up here pretty much year round. It’s choosing to do it at an unusually busy time and a time when it’s hard for folks to find a quality pandemic escape.

[unterhausen]

chip seal works best when it's hot. There have been some nearby roads that were chip sealed out of season and that is not good. Loose gravel until it's swept away by the snow plows

[Ralph]

It's bad enough on that road with all the cars.....having to deal with that would annoy me also.

[reuben]

I know these things are often planned and paid for years in advance but cmon, it’s clear this is where the mid Atlantic is going to get away from home this summer. These exceptional times demand better leadership than this. Someone at NPS should have been paying attention and stepped in.

C'mon, it's clear that they have to do their job. They can't pave in the winter. And not all people go to the forests/hills/mountains. Some go to beaches and other areas.

Yeah, it sucks for cyclists. A lot of things suck for a lot of people, a lot of the time, and in ways that are far more important.

I've got construction where I ride, too. Such is life.

First World Problem.

[tomato coupe]

I know these things are often planned and paid for years in advance ...

Just to be clear for other posts, I wasn’t particularly ranting about the inconvenience to me - I’m up here pretty much year round. It’s choosing to do it at an unusually busy time and a time when it’s hard for folks to find a quality pandemic escape.

You're right. They should have foreseen the pandemic and planned the repaving around it.

[tomato coupe]

First World Problem.

That's an understatement. The inconveniences caused the government keeping the roads in good condition is something a lot of the people in the world fantasize about.

[FlashUNC]

Paving is a long lead time kinda project. City here missed an entire year paving cycle on city streets because the town's project manager left for another job, and they didn't get RFPs out to the construction companies in time. Everyone booked their business for the year and the city was left with only minor patch jobs for 12 months.

Yeah, sorry the ride was slightly uncomfortable, but deal with it.

[pasadena]

Actual infrastructure maintenance and improvements. Tax dollars directly benefiting taxpayers.
The audacity.

[tctyres]

I don't know this exact location, but if it's in the NPS, they are required to spend the money when it is allotted.

Chipseal is difficult to ride on road tires. I get that. I went down several years ago on unsprayed chipseal and had rocks embedded in my skin from my ankle to my shoulder blade. It's not fun.

[reuben]

Everyone has bad days. Today was such a day for Spaghetti. My guess/hope is that he'll calm down and write it off. Might take a coupla days, though.

[jamesdak]

Well I'm not going to rag on you like some of the others. Every road is ride is crap chipseal. Each summer I have to deal with the freshly laid crap and when poorly done it can mean avoiding an area for months until it's wore in. The responsible companies will put it down, go over it with rollers, sweep up the excess gravel, and then seal it. Unfortunately that's not the norm. You get loose gravel with big tire sucking piles of it on the shoulders. I hate the stuff.

And don't even get me going about what it does to your car. You just can't keep a nice car if you have to deal with this crap all the time. Paint get's beat to hell and yearly windshield replacements are common.

I've had to change my main route for the past week due to the crap being put down on a one mile section. Too dangerous to ride on right now. Keep the complaining coming, chipseal is a total curse from the biking gods! :mad::mad:

[Peter P.]

I know people often criticize all road/gravel bikes but this is the case where you woulda just rip through all that crap and probably actually enjoyed it.

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

Word is the bicycle industry paid the Park Service to lay down the gravel. Next come the ads to sell gravel bikes! ;)

You do have an option-Become a Belgian hardman and eat chipseal for breakfast.

[Matthew]

Wow. You would have thought spaghetti brought up Ben Serotta, Campy vs Shimano, Lance, Greg Lemond, politics, race, disc brakes, and posted a bunch of half naked women pics the way he's gotten clobbered in this thread. Must be lousy attitude Wednesday. At least there's positive attitude Friday soon. I agree, chip seal sucks no matter the time of year.

[rccardr]

Spaghetti Legs is the Best Kinda Guy. ER doc, so if you come in after a bad spill, covered in chip seal road rash, this is the fella who cleans you up.

Nice guy. Even if he refers to me as ‘The Machine’.

[el cheapo]

Crashed on chip seal about twelve years ago. It was like being shredded by a wood chipper. Still have scars on my elbow. Kit was destroyed. Colnago survived almost unscathed except for bent shifter. Here in Texas somebody is making a hell of a lot of money on this crap they call a road surface.

[merckxman]

In my Township they have been trying a new process: first putting down a pretty nice skim coat of asphalt, that is followed by oil and chip sealing a few weeks later.
I can commiserate.

A good while ago they repaved my road with asphalt. They did it right and and the road was like velvet. Everyone I spoke with loved driving on it and we cyclists loved riding on it. A year later they come through and put chip seal down, over the asphalt, with some of the largest stone "chips" I have ever seen. Basically destroyed a super nice road that was not showing any signs of damage or excessive wear to my untrained eye. It's taken probably 5-6 years for traffic to wear down the surface so that it doesn't feel like you're off-road while in your vehicle; still feels off road'ish on a bike because we're on the shoulder.

When questioned about the rationale, a buddy of mine that worked for TXDOT told me they probably had some excess material (hot mix or something like that, he called it) they needed to get rid of. Thought he was pulling my leg but he stuck to that story.

Happy riding!

[Tickdoc]

Crashed on chip seal about twelve years ago. It was like being shredded by a wood chipper. Still have scars on my elbow. Kit was destroyed. Colnago survived almost unscathed except for bent shifter. Here in Texas somebody is making a hell of a lot of money on this crap they call a road surface.

one of my favorite (then) routes my group does towards the end of summer is a 70 mile route out to a lake and back. very hilly, very fast, fun ride.


They chip sealed it two years ago and I rode on it once it was first completed once. the loose gravel was everywhere on the un-tarred sides of the road where, say a bike rider would be.

I haven't ridden that ride since. Ruined a perfectly good road. It is tolerable at best after a few years of heavy car travel, but that is only in the tire lane where you will be hit by a car.

I'm with Spaghetti here...chip seal sucks no matter how you slice it.

I've got plenty of gravel options but that is not my bag.

[Blue Jays]

That is a very frustrating news update to learn about, @Spaghetti Legs.
BRP and Skyline Drive have both been famous for smooth asphalt in the past.
I'd prefer to see maintenance delayed rather than "half-step" of lousy chipseal.

[smontanaro]

Past few rides have been on Skyline so today was first ride on BRP in a couple of weeks and looks like they’ve decided now is the right time to chip seal the north end. Great call!

I'm not sure there is a good time for chip seal, even on country roads. I recall the Dairyland Dare folks in Wisconsin having to routinely make last-minute route changes to skirt around fresh chip seal.

Chip seal was applied to the Blue Star Highway in the Covert/South Haven MI area in 2019. No fun riding it for the entire summer. The cars compressed/sprayed the stuff off the highway proper, but they never did anything to clean up the shoulder where the bikes ride. We are only up here a few times a year, but the Blue Star between St Joe and South Haven is a popular training route for the local triathlete types. I'm sure they were pissed.

This summer it's (relatively speaking) fine. It's still rough, but at least it appears the loose stuff is gone. Offhand, I don't recall what I brought with me last summer. This time around I have my Eisentraut Limited (https://flic.kr/s/aHsmLAJgT5) with 32mm Gravel Kings, so I'm better prepared.

[Tickdoc]

I understand why they do it....it is cheaper than asphalt by a factor of like 10, but it doesn't wear as well or last as long. keep it rural. folks.

[Mr. Pink]

I can commiserate.

A good while ago they repaved my road with asphalt. They did it right and and the road was like velvet. Everyone I spoke with loved driving on it and we cyclists loved riding on it. A year later they come through and put chip seal down, over the asphalt, with some of the largest stone "chips" I have ever seen. Basically destroyed a super nice road that was not showing any signs of damage or excessive wear to my untrained eye. It's taken probably 5-6 years for traffic to wear down the surface so that it doesn't feel like you're off-road while in your vehicle; still feels off road'ish on a bike because we're on the shoulder.

When questioned about the rationale, a buddy of mine that worked for TXDOT told me they probably had some excess material (hot mix or something like that, he called it) they needed to get rid of. Thought he was pulling my leg but he stuck to that story.

Happy riding!

Oh man, that happened to me about five years ago. Town came in and nicely paved a back road that was in really bad shape, transformed it into an awesome downhill through trees from something I'd only ride uphill before, then, the next summer, chip sealed it! I actually drove through it when they were doing the gravel part, and stopped and whined at them, why, why?? Then, two years later, they paved it over again! I mean, I was happy again, but, ***? How much money went under the table on that one?

[benb]

There are so many great super quiet roads off the parkway/skyline that parallel it I'd probably just get off and ride those for a change.

The cars and motos are annoying enough without paving issues.

It definitely sucks they're chipsealing any section of those great roads though.. they were always so amazing with the well engineered surfaces & curves/bankings.

I've never gotten to bike down there but motorcycled all the way down Skyline & the BRP and a lot of the other roads down there.

We have family off the BRP and the whole county is just full of great roads that always made me want my bike.

[jb_11]

I can commiserate.

A good while ago they repaved my road with asphalt. They did it right and and the road was like velvet. Everyone I spoke with loved driving on it and we cyclists loved riding on it. A year later they come through and put chip seal down, over the asphalt, with some of the largest stone "chips" I have ever seen. Basically destroyed a super nice road that was not showing any signs of damage or excessive wear to my untrained eye. It's taken probably 5-6 years for traffic to wear down the surface so that it doesn't feel like you're off-road while in your vehicle; still feels off road'ish on a bike because we're on the shoulder.

When questioned about the rationale, a buddy of mine that worked for TXDOT told me they probably had some excess material (hot mix or something like that, he called it) they needed to get rid of. Thought he was pulling my leg but he stuck to that story.

Happy riding!

It wouldn't have been hot mix. That's the good stuff. There are indeed times when they have excess hot mix they may lay down to use it up, but I wouldn't think they'd need to with chip seal as the components are separate.

[Blue Jays]

My sense is most folks would contend with an extra year or three of poor road surface in exchange for a proper milling followed by poured/steamrolled asphalt.

[PacNW2Ford]

Several challenges here:
Short paving season due to weather
No trucks allowed, so the road doesn't see continual compaction which helps durability
If any cracking happens in a freeze-thaw climate, the road is going to deteriorate rapidly
Deferred maintenance just means much more costly repairs or reconstruction if and when they ever happen and much longer construction closures
The paving season always overlaps the cycling season

[bigbill]

I was in Grand Canyon NP two weekends ago, which really isn't a cycling destination, but was happy to see them taking advantage of the reduced number of tourists to fix several outstanding issues on the roadways. I'm tempted to take my road bike and ride the length of the park while there's very little traffic. Around 11am, California arrives and the roads are once again packed.

[RWL2222]

I hope the group that was forming here last week to consider the idea of traveling to ride the Parkway--sees Spaghetti's post. I would want to know.

[Spoker]

I ride the Parkway weekly. All I can say is the all Strava records are safe forever after the “upgrades”.

[Blue Jays]

There must be an actual price tag associated with emergency response to loss-of-control crashes involving cars, trucks, RVs, motorcycles, and bicycles.

While I am not a statistician or actuary, the volume of these types of accidents simply must be higher on unpredictable and changing terrain, right?

[redir]

IT must be more busy the further North you go. Not to bad down hear closer to North Carolina and last I was up there, two weeks ago, the campgrounds were still closed.

[GregL]

Upstate NY is chip seal country. Or as we call it around here, "oiled and stoned". It's just a fact of rural life. Members of the local cycling club post updates on their e-mail list and Facebook page to help everyone's awareness of recently treated roads. This year, the highway departments seem to be using smaller stones, which allows the roads to smooth out more quickly. After a week of vehicle use and (hopefully) some rain, the roads are rideable again. A winter of snow plowing further compacts the stone and pushes any loose stone off the sides. On a positive note, loose stone contributes to your bike handling skills...

Greg