Drivetrain choice

[nortx-Dave]

Some of you might have seen my posts in the Custom Bike threads talking about my new Chris Bishop build. It's built as a road bike with room for 32's. I don't plan to ride any gravel, save for very short sections that connect paved roads.....also the fatter tires will help to smooth Texas chip seal.

So Chris is just about done with frame construction and it's time to move on with the build. BUT, I had planned on using mechanical SRAM Red. But I've learned that SRAM is soon to be discontinuing mechanical Red and now I'm stuck.

Backstory.....I was riding a 1993 Cannondale 2.8 with Campy C-Record downtube shifting when I bought my Lynskey in 2009, built with SRAM Rival. I've ridden nothing but the Lynskey since and with 69,700+ miles of great reliability and function, I was planning on continuing with SRAM on my new Bishop.

So I have no riding history with either Shimano or Campagnolo.

1. I want a mechanical drivetrain.
2. I'm leaning to either Campy Chorus or Record, or maybe SRAM Force (unless SRAM is phasing out all mechanical groups).
3. Not really a fan of Shimano for various reasons including the functionality, ergonomics and aesthetics.
4. Budget can accommodate any choice.

I know it comes down to personal preference......but are there any overwhelming reasons to choose a specific group over the other?

[Dave]

Whatever you choose, it should be 12 speed. There will soon be no 11 speed groups in j current production.

Record or Chorus mechanical seems like the obvious choice. Pick the chain ring and cassette combination that fits your needs.

If SRAM fails to produce mechanical 12 speed, they will limit themselves to those wanting the most expensive models.

[skiezo]

I have a campy '15 in 11 speed and with 20+K on the groupset it has been ultra reliable. I'm am biased tho as I have been on campy for 30+ years.
I do have a sram force 1x on a gravel bike and really like the way that it functions.
I don't think you can go wrong with any group these days tho. All seem to be great in form and function.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I, too, have been extremely happy with my SRAM mechanical groups (Red HRD, Force, Rival) and would be disappointed if they abandoned this segment.

Budget can accommodate any choice.

In that case I'd go with AXS.

[R3awak3n]

Yep, tell bishop to keep the frame clean, no silly cable stops and get sram axs. You like sram so why not keep with it. E-sram is fantastic.

But if you must insist on mech then of course get campy.

[FlashUNC]

Force AXS.

[joosttx]

I listen to Hambini

[prototoast]

Don't switch from Sram mechanical to Campagnolo mechanical without an extended test. I really like Sram mechanical, and have built up a few bikes here and there with Campagnolo and I always regret it. The thumb position just does not work with my hands, and compared to Sram, the lever throw is just way too long to be comfortable for me.

I know many people love Campagnolo and that's great, but it's a big leap to make cold.

[nortx-Dave]

Don't switch from Sram mechanical to Campagnolo mechanical without an extended test. .....................
I know many people love Campagnolo and that's great, but it's a big leap to make cold.

Unfortunately that's very difficult. I live in rural North Texas, miles and miles from a bike shop that would have a Campy Chorus or Record bike in stock.

[R3awak3n]

I mean you can always find the stuff you like on ebay...

[Wattvagen]

OP wants mechanical, does not want shimano and sounds like sram is going all electric - so the campy is the obvious choice.

i'm on chorus 12 mech now, rim brake and it's very good kit. i have no question it will have good reliability. that would be my vote.

[R3awak3n]

OP wants mechanical, does not want shimano and sounds like sram is going all electric - so the campy is the obvious choice.

i'm on chorus 12 mech now, rim brake and it's very good kit. i have no question it will have good reliability. that would be my vote.

Yes choice is obvious but I agree with prototoast, he could absolutey hate campy. Its very possible, some people are not into the thumb button. I can understand why. I started on campy and its still my favorite to this day but I can totally see if I had been running something else for years ai might not like it. I don’t like shimano for example and would also not want sram doubletap on my road bike (its fine on gravel bike in 1x but its not my favorite)

[oldpotatoe]

Some of you might have seen my posts in the Custom Bike threads talking about my new Chris Bishop build. It's built as a road bike with room for 32's. I don't plan to ride any gravel, save for very short sections that connect paved roads.....also the fatter tires will help to smooth Texas chip seal.

So Chris is just about done with frame construction and it's time to move on with the build. BUT, I had planned on using mechanical SRAM Red. But I've learned that SRAM is soon to be discontinuing mechanical Red and now I'm stuck.

Backstory.....I was riding a 1993 Cannondale 2.8 with Campy C-Record downtube shifting when I bought my Lynskey in 2009, built with SRAM Rival. I've ridden nothing but the Lynskey since and with 69,700+ miles of great reliability and function, I was planning on continuing with SRAM on my new Bishop.

So I have no riding history with either Shimano or Campagnolo.

1. I want a mechanical drivetrain.
2. I'm leaning to either Campy Chorus or Record, or maybe SRAM Force (unless SRAM is phasing out all mechanical groups).
3. Not really a fan of Shimano for various reasons including the functionality, ergonomics and aesthetics.
4. Budget can accommodate any choice.

I know it comes down to personal preference......but are there any overwhelming reasons to choose a specific group over the other?

Haven't read the entire thread but Record or Chorus 12s, or a mix, sounds like the way to go..sram is REALLY into electronic..so much so that there is NO 12s mechanical group at all. It's doubtful sram would 'back step' into a 12s mechanical group.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Don't switch from Sram mechanical to Campagnolo mechanical without an extended test. I really like Sram mechanical, and have built up a few bikes here and there with Campagnolo and I always regret it. The thumb position just does not work with my hands, and compared to Sram, the lever throw is just way too long to be comfortable for me.

I know many people love Campagnolo and that's great, but it's a big leap to make cold.

I'll second this. Campy hood shape feels really good. But I do not get along with the thumb button. Sure, I can use it, but it's not optimal. Best shifting from hoods and drops for me is SRAM.

[FlashUNC]

OP wants mechanical, does not want shimano and sounds like sram is going all electric - so the campy is the obvious choice.

i'm on chorus 12 mech now, rim brake and it's very good kit. i have no question it will have good reliability. that would be my vote.

Yeah, but if ergonomic concerns are the priority, nothing on that front is changing with SRAM. The hoods and lever shape remain the same. You're just running fewer cables for shifty bits and charging a battery once in a while. Going to Campy without any experience with it -- and Shimano being off the list immediately -- on a bike where price seems to be no object? AXS is really the obvious choice.

[R3awak3n]

Yeah, but if ergonomic concerns are the priority, nothing on that front in changing with SRAM. The hoods and lever shape remain the same. You're just running fewer cables for shifty bits and charging a battery once in a while.

exactly my thoughts. The hands like what the hands like and if you have been used to sram ergonomics (or lack there of ;o) then thats what you want. I am fine with sram and campy (campy ergos are by far the best imo and I love the thumb button) but say shimano, its just not my thing, ergonomics are fine but I hate the whole thing moving to shift, also its so light, I like the campy and sram very positive clicks. I also love etap/axs, its just great and I am not surprise sram is dropping mechanical... I think eventually they will have a "cheap" electronic group and its going to do really well, no one will be looking for mechanical sram anymore.

[thirdgenbird]

I’m AXS curious, but I wouldn’t consider it on an artisan lugged frame. Mechanical looks and feels right. Campagnolo especially so. I would be all in on record 12.

If this were a carbon frame, then I would be looking at AXS with Campagnolo cranks, cassette, chain and wheels.

[nortx-Dave]

Thanks.

Problem is the frame is 99% complete with cable stops in anticipation of a mechanical group. Going electronic now would be a big deal...no? And like thirdgenbird above, I really wanted to keep the classic yet modern vibe going with a mechanical drivetrain on this lugged steel frame.

I'm surprised as anyone that SRAM doesn't seem to be interested in marketing a 12 speed mechanical group. I guess that attitude is more of a reflection on me than anything.

I guess I really need to make the long drive into FT Worth or Dallas and at least check out a Campy mechanical (Chorus or Record) bike.

[thirdgenbird]

I would stay mechanical. Stick with your gut. Is this a rim or disc bike?

Edit:
Maybe I’m projecting. My dream stable would be a bishop road bike with direct mount brakes and Campagnolo 12 mechanical and then a fully modern all-road/gravel bike with discs and a 1x setup. Maybe electronic.

[prototoast]

Thanks.

Problem is the frame is 99% complete with cable stops in anticipation of a mechanical group. Going electronic now would be a big deal...no?

And it seems that Force isn't going away anytime soon....so maybe mechanical Force 22?

You can still find Red 22 in stock in a variety of places. But if you run into problems with that, you could also mix Force 22 shfiters/derailleurs with Red 22 cranks/brakes/cassette/chain (the pieces that are the same with electronic groups).

[R3awak3n]

I’m AXS curious, but I wouldn’t consider it on an artisan lugged frame. Mechanical looks and feels right. Campagnolo especially so. I would be all in on record 12.

If this were a carbon frame, then I would be looking at AXS with Campagnolo cranks, cassette, chain and wheels.

but campy 12 does not really belong on an artisan lugged frame either if we go that way. That stuff is "ugly" and modern and looks about the same as axs as far as class goes. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind some of the ugly of new modern groupsets and campy 12 is growing on me (still can't with the RD, thats the last thing that bothers me, I even came around with the crank).

If we are going for looks then campy 11 is the winner, a nice mix btw mother and "classic" and at least it would be a cheaper experiment than pay 12 prices... Could even probably find some used in nice condition here on the forum.



but as far as brakes go, gotta go EE direct mount.

[thirdgenbird]

I agree that 11 is more classic, but 12 can look great.

https://lirp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/0417864f/dms3rep/multi/opt/espresso-inox-campagnolo-1920w.jpg

[R3awak3n]

it can but that is not a classic looking bike, it looks like a modern steel bike with a black carbon fork.

Don't get me wrong, I think campy 12 will look fine on the bishop with the nice crafter lugs and skinnier tubes but you know what I am saying, campy 11 with a 5 arm crank will look better and more appropriate and a cheaper entry to campy for someone who ever had it and might not even like it.


and then he can take some picture, have the best looking group on that bike and then take it off and go back to sram :P (or not and become just like the annoying campy guys we are)

[ColonelJLloyd]

I have exactly one custom frame so nothing like a lot of posters here. But, I can tell you that your frame is nearly finished and the train of component and other equipment innovation and evolution keeps on rolling and your frame will more-or-less be a relic of a point in time. If you keep your frame, and I suspect you will, then odds are you will eventually hang a wireless electronic group on it. Personally, I have no issue with a few braze-ons going unemployed at some point. It's just life. I understand your desire to stick with mechanical and the familiarity of SRAM and I understand your reluctance to electronic.

Nothing is forever and a decision you make on the group now can be changed later. Trying out Campy is a sound move if possible. To that end, I'd also try and give AXS a go which should be every bit as feasible.

[FlashUNC]

Thanks.

Problem is the frame is 99% complete with cable stops in anticipation of a mechanical group. Going electronic now would be a big deal...no? And like thirdgenbird above, I really wanted to keep the classic yet modern vibe going with a mechanical drivetrain on this lugged steel frame.

I'm surprised as anyone that SRAM doesn't seem to be interested in marketing a 12 speed mechanical group. I guess that attitude is more of a reflection on me than anything.

I guess I really need to make the long drive into FT Worth or Dallas and at least check out a Campy mechanical (Chorus or Record) bike.

Nah. I've got a Scarab with cable stops in the event I decide to run mechanical one day, but for now it's got Force AXS. No reason you can't give yourself some flexibility. Try AXS, hate it, sell it and get into a Campy mechanical group for pretty much what you sold the AXS for.

[Wattvagen]

yea, agreed. the beauty of the wireless stuff is (duh...) you dont have the wires to deal with, so you dont need any janky looking holes all over the frame and space to pass shifting wires through.

if i were getting a new custom steel bike, i would definitely have mech stops put on it, whethter i chose mech or not out of the box, just to keep future options open.

[thirdgenbird]

Don't get me wrong, I think campy 12 will look fine on the bishop with the nice crafter lugs and skinnier tubes but you know what I am saying, campy 11 with a 5 arm crank will look better and more appropriate and a cheaper entry to campy for someone who ever had it and might not even like it.

If the objective is strictly appearance, I would go with a 2015+ Campagnolo 11 speed group with a pre-15 5 arm crank and EE brakes. Yummy.

[coreyaugustus]

If the objective is strictly appearance, I would go with a 2015+ Campagnolo 11 speed group with a pre-15 5 arm crank and EE brakes. Yummy.

Same. You can always hoard cassettes in prep for the future.

[Tony Edwards]

Highly personal question. I personally greatly prefer Campy, but I've been using it for 30 years. As others have said, though, it has to work for you.

[sparky33]

I listen to Hambini

Hambini hates everything, so what does this leave for choices?

[R3awak3n]

Hambini hates everything, so what does this leave for choices?

Well he would need to give me the bishop and buy a LOOK. I think hambini likes shimano so he would have to have that and then I would put campy on the bishop.

[nortx-Dave]

I would stay mechanical. Stick with your gut. Is this a rim or disc bike?

Edit:
Maybe I’m projecting. My dream stable would be a bishop road bike with direct mount brakes and Campagnolo 12 mechanical and then a fully modern all-road/gravel bike with discs and a 1x setup. Maybe electronic.

We dream alike!

My Bishop is going to have direct mount eebrakes, Bora WTO 45's, and either Record or Chorus 12 speed mechanical.

[JMWC]

Looks like you found your answer!

[thirdgenbird]

We dream alike!

My Bishop is going to have direct mount eebrakes, Bora WTO 45's, and either Record or Chorus 12 speed mechanical.

Perfect. I would go with record unless you need the subcompact crank.

[nortx-Dave]

Or.....for another $500....I could go with Super Record! I mean, what's another $500 when I'm already spending.....this much?

Definitely need to have another discussion with the head of household finances.

[zero85ZEN]

I have Super Record 12 on my Lynskey Helix Pro running standard 39/53 with 11-32 cassette. Absolutely fantastic gearing range and the cog sizing is perfect in that the gaps grow more pronounced in the larger cog range so that you don’t lose the nice small steps between gears in the mid and high range.
I’m also a HUGE fan of 2015+ Chorus. I have it on a couple bikes and it is absolutely flawless.

[Coffee Rider]

Or.....for another $500....I could go with Super Record! I mean, what's another $500 when I'm already spending.....this much?

Definitely need to have another discussion with the head of household finances.


At this point, you might as well go all in and get SR. It’s vanity, but there are worse ways to spend money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[YesNdeed]

I'm not sure if this is possible with other group sets, but maybe it will help to know that Campy 12 brake lever settings are adjustable for larger or smaller hands. In the rare event the thumbie either doesn't work for your hands or you just don't like it, there isn't much you can do about that. But, I figure knowing about the settings might make the jump a little easier. Personally, I love the thumb shift.

Or.....for another $500....I could go with Super Record! I mean, what's another $500 when I'm already spending.....this much?


That's exactly what I think every time I build a new road bike. Just finished a build with, you guessed it, Super Record 12 mechanical.:banana:

[Elefantino]

Whatever you pick will be a fine choice. Enjoy the new steed.

[g00se]

And post up a few pics when it's built...

[nortx-Dave]

OK...I just emailed Chris - and with my wife's enthusiastic OK, asked him to build it with Super Record 12 speed mechanical.

Overkill? Most certainly.
Vanity? Of course.
Necessary? Absolutely not.

Will it result in hours and hours of fun, enjoyment, fitness and pride of ownership whenever I look at it much less ride it? Oh hell yes!

Of course pics to follow!

[AngryScientist]

Good choice Dave.

Ordinarily, i would say Super Record is not worth it over Record, but for a person like you who has one good bike and enjoys it for years and many many miles - may as well spring for the best!

I am excited for you.

[zero85ZEN]

Fine choice. I think you are going to love it.
I just rode my SR 12 speed bike today. Truly an excellent group! Fantastic ergonomics and outstanding gearing range and steps throughout the cassette.

[Wookski]

Record/ super record 12 is sublime if the thumb shifter and ergonomics work for you. Swap out the brakes for ee’s: superior clearance, modulation and weight.

[nortx-Dave]

Record/ super record 12 is sublime if the thumb shifter and ergonomics work for you. Swap out the brakes for ee’s: superior clearance, modulation and weight.

Direct mounted eebrakes for sure!!!