Any ditch road bike for gravel all purpose?

[oldguy00]

Only have a tri bike and a MTB bike at the moment. I've been shopping around for another frame, and not sure whether to get a road frame, or a gravel frame as an all purpose. Seems like gravel/CX bikes pretty much give you the best of both worlds simply by switching out wheels/tires?

[peanutgallery]

Haven't had a road bike in like 6 years, gravel and mtb only. Set of road wheels as a just in case for a cancer ride or whatever. Have at least 4 mtbs in various states of repair. Considering a trail oriented gravel bike to balance the quiver

[thirdgenbird]

I went from a road bike and cross bike to the cross bike with two wheelsets. One wheelset is set up for road and the other is set up for gravel. I couldn’t be happier with the decision.

[Spdntrxi]

I tried but in the end I needed a road bike for fast group rides.

[dbnm]

I went from a Moots Vamoots RSL that can only run 25mm to a Alchemy Chiron with 38mm tires. I'm having so much fun and the options are almost endless.

[lugee]

I haven't had a road bike for quite a few years. I mainly have gravel or mountain bikes. My last 3-4 bikes have either been gravel, cross, or drop bar mountain.

I did the wheel swap thing for a while, but found myself always passing by unexplored trail heads, and wanting to head in. There are compromises when riding road with gravel tires, but I like having the flexibility to hop onto dirt road and trails at a whim.

[John H.]

I think it can be done depending on tires, gearing and how fast that you need to go.

Right now I am riding my Open UPPER as a road bike. It has a 34/50 crankset, road wheels, road tires, and the road wheels have an 11-32 cassette.

I would want a 36/52 if I was doing a competitive "race ride" type group ride, but what I have is perfect for COVID riding.

BTW- I am not entirely done with road bikes. I am waiting for a new road frame.
But if I was, this is not a bad way to go.

I feel like the Open is sort of "the road bike of gravel bikes".

I would not want a gravel bike with a 1x to be my only bike for pavement.

[thirdgenbird]

To add to the comments above, I am running a 52/36 crankset with a 11-29 on the road wheels and 11-34 on the gravel wheels. Maybe not ideal for everyone but it’s fairly flat here and I ride it on hard/packed surfaces most of the time.

[dbnm]

I'm running 2x on my all road.

Sram Red AXS cranks with 46/33 and a Sram Force AXS cassette with 11x33.

So far so good.

[R3awak3n]

it really depend on what you want to ride.

yes the gravel bike can do both but there is nothing like a road bike if what you want to ride is mostly road.

[doomridesout]

I had a Seven Axiom SL and a Rock Lobster gravel bike. Sold them both and got a Seven Evergreen S with a custom 650b road geometry with a second set of wheels. It works great. I do miss the top end speed of the rim brake road bike, even when I run skinny 700c tires on my Evergreen. If I get back in better shape I'll probably want to get a proper carbon road race bike, but I'm good for now. I'd say most people who aren't going on a lot of super fast group rides would get by about the same.

[AZR3]

3T Exploro 1x with 650b gravel and 700c road wheels. Haven’t touched my Cannondale Evo Hi-Mod in nearly two years.

[TAW]

Sold my road bikes when I moved and bought a fixie gravel bike. It's a lot of fun but I sure miss the "go fast" part of road cycling. I think you'd miss your road riding if you sold them.

[marciero]

My main bikes are 650b x 42 and 650b x 48. The two cover road, gravel, bikepacking, camping. I'd be fine with those two. But there is something very cool about the handling, ride, road feel, of a 700c x 28 (skinny for me) "road" bike, especially with tubulars. So I keep one close at hand.

[Hilltopperny]

it really depend on what you want to ride.

yes the gravel bike can do both but there is nothing like a road bike if what you want to ride is mostly road.


Agreed! A gravel bike is a great option and I have it a try, but nothing beats a pure road bike for road rides if you predominately want to ride pavement. A gravel bike leaning more towards road geometry like the Chiron or Drifter I have will get the job done and still be fun, but I definitely prefer my Eros on the road to the Drifter.

The Drifter can still be used for the road and is more akin to an endurance style bike, but I set mine up 1x and was road riding with 35s. It still handled and rode great, but my Eros with 25s and rim brakes is lighter and a bit more lively on the road. The Drifter with a couple of sets of wheels was still more than capable though.


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[choke]

The only time I ride pavement is to get to gravel or dirt. Other than the Strada Biancia, which I wouldn't really call a 'gravel bike', I mostly ride an 80's Losa or a '66 Frejus. The largest tire that the Losa will take is a 30mm but it's not been a problem for me. I've ridden lots of rough dirt FS roads on 26mm wide tires and while I would have preferred something wider I managed just fine.

[oldguy00]

Thanks all for the replies.

For those saying you prefer a road bike for the faster rides... aside from the wheels that you can swap out, what is it about the pure road bike that makes it noticeably faster?
Assuming you get by with a typical road crank setup like 50/34 or similar for either style riding, wouldn't the wheel swap take care of the rest? Or is the geo of a gravel bike that much different for handling etc?

Thx!

[Kirk007]

Thanks all for the replies.

For those saying you prefer a road bike for the faster rides... aside from the wheels that you can swap out, what is it about the pure road bike that makes it noticeably faster?
Assuming you get by with a typical road crank setup like 50/34 or similar for either style riding, wouldn't the wheel swap take care of the rest? Or is the geo of a gravel bike that much different for handling etc?

Thx!

I can't speak for everyone, but my 333FAB AirLandSea, designed around 650b x 48 tires but capable of taking up to 57mm tire, running Switchback Hill 650B x 48 tires and carbon wheels is a very nice riding bike on the road but for whatever reason my rides are always a bit slower on it. Not much, maybe 1 mph but its fairly consistent. Is it the bike? Is it me? The bike is also heavier, a 1x setup and the geometry is different than my road bikes. It is designed around that 650b tire so while I can put, and have, 700c wheels with 25mm tires on it, the significantly higher bottom bracket, the longer top tube/shorter stem - I think things add up to a discernable difference. And frankly it looks a bit goofy with a skinny tire, miles of clearance in the rear triangle and a big cross fork up front. Call me silly but how a bike looks effects how I feel about riding it.

Contrast this with my Spectrum ti disc, which I asked Tom Kellogg to design as an all road bike for the Pacific NW (which means among other things accomodation for fenders) which I can switch between a 700c x 35 barlow pass, but no bigger, and of course smaller (designed around a 28mm tire with room for fenders). The Spectrum is significantly better than the AirLandSea as a road bike and with 35mm tires is quite capable on most dirt. and gravel. And while I think the big tires ride incredibly well on the road, for a big tire, its a very different sensation than with a 25mm tubular. Not necessarily much slower in speed, but it rides/handles a little differently or at least I perceive it that way. Using this bike with multiple wheelsets does cover a very wide range of roads/trails that I encounter.

Final contrast - my "pure road bikes" - designed for me Spectrum steel and Hampsten carbon (and others past and present) with 25mm tubulars up to tires that measure out at 28mm. If I'm going to be solely on pavement I prefer these bikes to anything else. They just feel right. They were designed to be just right as a road bike without any necessary compromises or accomodations for big fat gravel tires or fenders etc.

If I had to live with one bike the Spectrum ti would suffice and without having other bikes around to compare/contrast I would probably forget what I was giving up by going n=1. In hindsight I wish I would have had Tom give me about 6 mm more clearance in the chainstays so I could get a 650b x 42mm tires in there.

If I was to reconfigure what I have, with a goal of simplifying and reducing the number of bikes, I would love to try a bike designed around a 650B x 42 with capacity to handle a 650B x 47 (which would also allow, with the right design, running a 700c 23-28 tire. Something like a Crumpton T-5 all road or a Firefly of this design. I will probably get some 42mm Baby shoe pass tires at some point and try them on my AirLandSea as I'm intrigued by the combination of width pluse a 700 x. 23mm equivalent diameter. This could perhaps be the goldilocks combination for me; as I get older and the roads around here get worse its kinda nice to have that extra width and volume when I inevitably miss one of the many dips or potholes on our roads.

Not sure any of this ramble answers your questions as to what's different other than the wheelsets. Maybe my short answer is "enough little things to make a noticeable difference when ridden back to back but maybe not enough to be meaningful if you weren't switching back and forth to have that comparative experience."

[oldguy00]

Thanks for the info, and would love to see a pic of the Spectrum!

[Fixed]

I love both
Kinda like a rally car and sports car
Cheers all

[Kirk007]

Thanks for the info, and would love to see a pic of the Spectrum!With 700c wheels and with 650b x 38 and fenders.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200719/18c0cad53a7a2d99cfbcafce10b749e9.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200719/881cfb0ec72faf9b6b87146333063f49.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200719/68ce1f344201d3298ff339b326a87b3d.jpg

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[Duende]

I’ve been on the all-road bike “only” trip for sometime now. I think Mosaic was among those at the forefront of this movement with their GT-1 model.

I still have my road bike... albeit in another city for when I visit... and the only thing I miss really is the weight savings and ride feel from the rim brakes. When on roads.. It just has a little more grace on flats and descents... a little more spring in its step if you will on climbs... But.. it’s very minor and not a deal breaker.

Very happy with my two wheelsets (road/gravel) and my GT-1. So much so, that in a few years... I’ll probably just get it painted then upgrade to a new frame (which is my norm).

[p nut]

Thanks all for the replies.

For those saying you prefer a road bike for the faster rides... aside from the wheels that you can swap out, what is it about the pure road bike that makes it noticeably faster?
Assuming you get by with a typical road crank setup like 50/34 or similar for either style riding, wouldn't the wheel swap take care of the rest? Or is the geo of a gravel bike that much different for handling etc?

Thx!

My road bike handles like razor-like precision. Gravel bike is slower in handling, which isn’t necessarily bad on gravel.

If I had a good amount of gravel or dirt roads close by, like Velotel, I’d probably sell the road bike and happily ride the gravel bike everywhere.

[robt57]

If like me you like to ride FTP [edge of fast fast] on your road bikes, going slower steering fat tire all road not my choice for pure pave.

I put new carbon wheels on my Strong All Road a week ago with Soma 38 Supple Vits and went for a 20 mile paved ride, mid PSI. Not rode it since. Prefer it with 48x650b and less blacktop really.

The Strong geom [front end] is middle ground between let's say Domane and Madone, so not particularly slow steering response.

Of course a 38mm lower PSI tire has a slowing effect on the steering response. Still love my 85 SLX lugged Nago for a fast road ride. Chorus, Zipp 404 resto build.

I lean disc Helix with 30mm toobies most of late when all paved routes. Fast road front geom with a little stretch on the WB chainstay, Sport road I guess, but race front end.

Take what you may from all that anecdotal drivel.

[Ozz]

I am surrounded by paved roads....I'd probably have to drive an half an hour to find a stretch of gravel longer than a mile...

One of the reasons I got a road bike was so I could step outside the front door and start my ride.

No gravel bike...thought about it....think about it....can't seem to justify it.

[Kirk007]

No gravel bike...thought about it....think about it....can't seem to justify it.

what about the rails to trails conversions from Monroe through Carnation Valley and up to Snoqualmie and up the pass? I've always been intrigued by these but not enough to get on a ferry and drive all the way out there.

Anyway, just trying to help help out on the justification front :)

[rain dogs]

Yup.

More versatile, more fun and you barely, barely give anything up if at all.

Unless you are racing, or riding at race conditions (not just riding fast, but race-like conditions) or you will drastically change your bike setup going from road to gravel/all-road you won't be any slower.

I've done a bunch of solo, road-only routes faster on my gravel bike than I ever did them on my CAAD10 with comparable wheels and thinner tires (the CAAD10 Which I sold because of this).

Now, that likely wouldn't be true for short rides (ie, sub 50miles/80km), but even then.... it's comparable/splitting hairs.

I've said it numerous times over the last year..... you give me 10 random people not looking to get into racing, but looking at road vs mtb, and I'm sure I would recommend a gravel/all-road bike to 7 maybe 8 of them before anything else. True road racing bikes for the masses is dead, or it should be.

[robt57]

I can't speak for everyone...650B x 48 tires and carbon wheels is a very nice riding bike on the road but for whatever reason my rides are always a bit slower on it. Not much, maybe 1 mph but its fairly consistent.

The longer the ride, the bigger the avg speed spread for me. ;)

Seems like 25 miles is when the fade begins, pure road at least 40, but I am an old slow fart. ;O Some days not so slow. ;)

To quantify, pure road = 28-30mm road tires @ 80-PSI +/- 5 PSI with a 200 lb rider.

"650B x 48 tires and carbon wheels is a very nice riding"

Agree, multi day riding... Yep!

[rain dogs]

The longer the ride, the bigger the avg speed spread for me. ;)

Here's why I don't think that's the case (at least for me)... because I was surprised - this is just my theory to explain what I see.

Take Scenario 1 - My Niner RLT vs my CAAD10 in a 50km all out ride. I can ride that first hour at nearly threshold and then high tempo from there. I'll be gassed at the end, but the CAAD being faster, will make a bigger difference from me squeezing out every watt, that I just cannot equal on the Niner, because I can push myself deeper (for shorter duration)... the bike aint holding me back.

Scenario 2 - A 200km ride on the same wheelset. Here, I'm in for 7,5-8hrs rando time if I'm doing a 200 brevet. I cannot ride anywhere near threshold for more than little surges or I will blow. I ride endurance pace/tempo either way. So I settle into a comfortable rhythm. Here, I think it's me and my comfortable rhythm that is determining 95% of my time and 5% or less, maybe 2% is the bike. Or maybe nothing!

Now, little specifics either way. The Niner is more stable, I can descend faster on it, I can tuck more aggresively, I can ride in a TT stance easier and longer. So I think I catch up a lot. Depending on the route I'm faster. It's basically all the same components, a little less drop and an extra ~900-1000g.

For sure, with wider tires (like 650bx45mm) vs a road setup 700x25 the longer the ride the bigger the spread..... that's just pushing and pushing and pushing and you lose a little chunk of time every km and it adds up huge.

No doubt, racing..... the CAAD would be faster, not even close. But solo fast rides, nothing. I'm just not fast enough to see any huge aero advantages, and the weight doesn't make any measureable diff climbing. If I could hum along the flats solo at 40-45kmph for hour after hour.... for sure, but I don't have the watts for that.

[Kirk007]

But is it all about speed? For me that's the lesser important factor to the quality of the ride experience.

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[R3awak3n]

Thanks all for the replies.

For those saying you prefer a road bike for the faster rides... aside from the wheels that you can swap out, what is it about the pure road bike that makes it noticeably faster?
Assuming you get by with a typical road crank setup like 50/34 or similar for either style riding, wouldn't the wheel swap take care of the rest? Or is the geo of a gravel bike that much different for handling etc?

Thx!

depending on the gravel bike and the road bike, I don't really think one would be MUCH faster if the equipment was EXACTLY the same. Sure the geometry matters but I don't think you would be getting a crazy advantage. However I prefer my road bike be different than my gravel bike. I want 50/34 on my roadie with a 28 or 32T cassette in the back, my gravel bike I want MUCH lower gearing. Road bike will also always be lighter if decent components and rim brakes, with a gravel bike you will most likely have discs which will add like 2 lbs to the bike. Also have a much different position on roadie, a bit more drop and like the bike to be a lot stiffer. Some people want their gravel bike to be exactly like the road bike and some gravel bikes can weight about the same as roadies

[rain dogs]

But is it all about speed? For me that's the lesser important factor to the quality of the ride experience.

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But the only advantage of a road racing bike is all out speed. Otherwise its no contest. That's why I talk about that, because people worry they'll become "slow" Gravel bike/all road bike wins out every time in every other measure.... which is why I said I would recommend a true road bike to maybe 1 out of every 10 people asking (unless they want to race)

[peanutgallery]

2 anecdotal points I've noticed this season

1. In the time of covid, the only bikes that Specialized has in stock are road bikes

2. According to my Nextdoor app, the number of complaints of large groups of MAMILs riding aggressivly on the MUT are pretty high this summer. A few little old ladies are taking a break from the sidewalk committee and devoting their summer to bring the Lycra clad villians to justice

What that tells me... the Roadies are going graveling

[Spdntrxi]

for me it was mostly a gearing issue..

what was bearly passible for the road did not work well for gravel in my area. I need a really low gear for sustained 15% in the dirt. Getting a true road bike allowed me to make my gravel bike more capable for the type of gravel I ride, which made it more fun in the end.

Road needed to be race ready... for actual racing and race scenarios. I dont claim to be a good racer, but the gravel bike in road mode just lacked something. I already know I'm lacking :cool:

[Gummee]

I tried but in the end I needed a road bike for fast group rides.

Most of my riding in on a CX bike with 32c GP5K TL tires, but if I want to go hammer with the fast guys, I still ride a road bike.

Luckily, I'm single and don't have to dump anything. Course, I'm darn near at maximum density in the garage so I probably should sell a few bikes

M

[robt57]

But is it all about speed? For me that's the lesser important factor to the quality of the ride experience.

One of the points/factors is 'yes'. That it is for a lot of riders, old habits die hard perhaps in a lot of cases.

But isn't it really just all good. ';)

[Kirk007]

But the only advantage of a road racing bike is all out speed. Otherwise its no contest. That's why I talk about that, because people worry they'll become "slow" Gravel bike/all road bike wins out every time in every other measure.... which is why I said I would recommend a true road bike to maybe 1 out of every 10 people asking (unless they want to race)Agree to disagree on that. A "road racing bike" is a great bike for road riding even if you don't have a number pinned on.

I don't know a good way to express it, if you've felt it you know it. Suffice it to say that on my old Peg Marcelo or my Hampsten or Spectrum Steel or Sachs, on the right day I'm tempted to start signing Italian operas like the character in Breaking Away. Never so moved on my old aluminum rlt nor my AirLandSea not the Spectrum disc with 35mm tires. A pure road bike is just different, and in a good way. It's not a huge difference but it's there, at least for me.

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[robt57]

A pure road bike is just different, and in a good way. It's not a huge difference but it's there, at least for me.

For a lot of us it seems. Not a case of who is wrong or right either.

Ride what makes you feel that magic, what that is for you.

Still totally dig rolling my SLX Nago, 97 Ti Super, Look 585 still a fav that not much comes close either, in it's own timeless fashion.

Can't wait to get my 90s 753 road frame painted and rolling again.

It is ALL so very good. ;)

[rain dogs]

Agree to disagree on that. A "road racing bike" is a great bike for road riding even if you don't have a number pinned on.

I don't know a good way to express it, if you've felt it you know it. Suffice it to say that on my old Peg Marcelo or my Hampsten or Spectrum Steel or Sachs, on the right day I'm tempted to start signing Italian operas like the character in Breaking Away. Never so moved on my old aluminum rlt nor my AirLandSea not the Spectrum disc with 35mm tires. A pure road bike is just different, and in a good way. It's not a huge difference but it's there, at least for me.

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"If you've felt it you know it" :confused::confused::confused:

I've never said a race bike isn't a great ride, but what if I "feel it" more on my current (Gravel) bike than any of my race bikes? Why is that impossible?

[mcteague]

I am surrounded by paved roads....I'd probably have to drive an half an hour to find a stretch of gravel longer than a mile...

One of the reasons I got a road bike was so I could step outside the front door and start my ride.

No gravel bike...thought about it....think about it....can't seem to justify it.


what about the rails to trails conversions from Monroe through Carnation Valley and up to Snoqualmie and up the pass? I've always been intrigued by these but not enough to get on a ferry and drive all the way out there.

Anyway, just trying to help help out on the justification front :)

Same here, the only gravel nearby is the rails to trails path. Tried that twice on my road bike and was bored after 10 minutes. As much as I gripe about hills they do help make things fun.

Tim

[Spdntrxi]

Most of my riding in on a CX bike with 32c GP5K TL tires, but if I want to go hammer with the fast guys, I still ride a road bike.

Luckily, I'm single and don't have to dump anything. Course, I'm darn near at maximum density in the garage so I probably should sell a few bikes

M

Shop rides I could manage, although I average 20+ watts more the usual to keep up.. fast group rides, I barely hang on with a road bike.. so gravel was a drop city. Since getting another road bike though, it has allowed me to just go all out gravel and make it suitable for the trails around me.... so its up'd that enjoyment exponentially.

[Kirk007]

"If you've felt it you know it" :confused::confused::confused:

I've never said a race bike isn't a great ride, but what if I "feel it" more on my current (Gravel) bike than any of my race bikes? Why is that impossible?

ride whatever makes you happy, no one is judging and there's no right or wrong answer as to what's the right or best bike for someone as it's an idividual thing - nor is it likely to be an either/or thing. Diversity is good.

P.s. I love wearing my Cima coppi jersey on a cool spring or fall day on my 333fab; it's the right combo [emoji106]

[Fixed]

Being A t.b.i.suvivior I ride a cross bike ( specialized crux)most days ,it is the most stable and forgiving bike I have ever ridden
My road bike is a 31 year old bottecchia adr replica that I have kept in mint condition
It is a road race bike and rides like one
about once a week we go out together and do a solid road workout
That balance works well for me now at this point in my life .

Cheers to All

[nmrt]

+1
in a road bike, the ride sensation is very different than a gravel bike with almost the same equipment. i chalk it to the difference in geometry.

a road bike surges like a cheetah and twists like an antelope. the bike reacts to twitches in the fibers of your muscle with urgency. the ground is yours and you floats above it while the scenery just blurs when your eyes water at speed. you realize in that instant that this is a race bike meant to go fast.

the gravel bike, well, it feels...ummmm...sluggish on the road even with 28 mm tires.

two entirely differently beasts for two entirely different purposes. for me on cannot replace the other.

Agree to disagree on that. A "road racing bike" is a great bike for road riding even if you don't have a number pinned on.

I don't know a good way to express it, if you've felt it you know it. Suffice it to say that on my old Peg Marcelo or my Hampsten or Spectrum Steel or Sachs, on the right day I'm tempted to start signing Italian operas like the character in Breaking Away. Never so moved on my old aluminum rlt nor my AirLandSea not the Spectrum disc with 35mm tires. A pure road bike is just different, and in a good way. It's not a huge difference but it's there, at least for me.

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[rain dogs]

ride whatever makes you happy, no one is judging and there's no right or wrong answer as to what's the right or best bike for someone as it's an idividual thing - nor is it likely to be an either/or thing. Diversity is good.

P.s. I love wearing my Cima coppi jersey on a cool spring or fall day on my 333fab; it's the right combo [emoji106]

I'm mistaken then in what I was reading, cause on the bolded we have absolute agreement.

and to the PS.... awesome, good to hear!

[R3awak3n]

I agree with kirk, ride whatever the hell you want and I do believe its possible to feel better on a gravel bike than a road bike, even. on. the. road lol

that said, I know the feeling he is talking about and when I am ridding road and I am on my road bike, it just feels better to me than being on the gravel bike, probably mental but I feel it.

[benb]

I had a Seven Axiom SL and a Rock Lobster gravel bike. Sold them both and got a Seven Evergreen S with a custom 650b road geometry with a second set of wheels. It works great. I do miss the top end speed of the rim brake road bike, even when I run skinny 700c tires on my Evergreen. If I get back in better shape I'll probably want to get a proper carbon road race bike, but I'm good for now. I'd say most people who aren't going on a lot of super fast group rides would get by about the same.

Seems like a plan I could go for, I quoted you cause I'd very likely end up with a Seven Evergreen something as well.

Right now I have an All City Space horse with Mini-Vs and 32c tires, though I have often used more like 38c tires. It's a really fun bike but it's like 26lbs with the 32c tires and goes up to 27lbs when the fenders go on.

And I have a Trek Domane with rim brakes that comes in under 17lbs. It is WAY faster. But I don't even necessarily ride it as much unless I'm really fit. At least for me it's a totally different mindset getting on that bike.

I have a MTB as well, the MTB is very long in the tooth. The Space Horse is almost 8 years old, but the frame is so overbuilt it is not showing much wear.

I can easily see as I get older and having less days I'm trying to cause my heart to explode being totally fine with just having one all around bike like the Evergreen with Disc brakes and two wheelsets. It's a better bike, it would very much close the gap in outright speed between my Space Horse + Domane. The weakness of this plan would be if the bike is down for maintenance.. 2 bikes is better than one.. but that's only an issue if you are in a situation where you can't miss a ride for training reasons... which seems less of a big deal as I get older.

I would just be really conscious of whether Seven or whoever could really nail the geometry to make the bike handle really well with say 25c tires and 38c-42c tires. My Space Horse can take a huge range of tire sizes but it handles a lot better with big tires.. I don't go back and forth with 2 wheelsets on the Space Horse because it doesn't really work that well with the rim brakes on it. If I was going to be spending a lot on an expensive bike with the intention of swapping wheelsets I would really want the bike to be satisfying with either wheelset.

[DRZRM]

I have a rim brake Firefly that I love deeply, but it hardly gets ridden. Roads have narrow shoulders and drivers are hardly respectful in central PA. The gravel loops are awesome and the Parlee Chebacco gets most of my ride time. I doubt I'd sell the FF, but I wish it was a gravel bike.

[hellvetica]

Opposite here.

Got rid of my "gravel" bike and have 2 road bikes and 2 mountain bikes (rigid SS, and cross country FS). The gravel bike was fine, but it was not great on the road, or on the trails I prefer to ride. It just didn't fit in.