Scary interaction in Fl

[vav]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/stay-f-off-road-cyclist-164215592.html

and the comments never fail to disappoint of course

[Macadamia]

florida leads the US in cyclist deaths, doubling second place.

so much of this near me, people screaming, veering into the bike lane right after they pass you as some sort of threat. I personally haven't seen a gun but a family member did. If you want to see the worst in people, just get on a bike...

[eddief]

what's the thread that runs throughout?

florida leads the US in cyclist deaths, doubling second place.

so much of this near me, people screaming, veering into the bike lane right after they pass you as some sort of threat. I personally haven't seen a gun but a family member did. If you want to see the worst in people, just get on a bike...

[Peter P.]

what's the thread that runs throughout?

The replies run the gamut. You've heard them all before, both pro and con. After the first ten or so comments your eyes glaze over.

[C40_guy]

The whole thing makes me want to throw up, post all my road bikes on PL Marketplace and go for a ride in the woods.

Seriously.

But maybe I missed something. I watched the entire video with the sound off. The motorist casually waving a pistol, the two well-muscled cyclists pointing fingers at him.

If I were the cyclist, I'd be concerned that Florida man would shoot. Stand your ground defense.

If I were the motorist, I'd be concerned that these two crazy sweaty people mean to hurt me.

No win. Frankly, I think the cyclists made a bad situation worse...and could have gotten shot in the process...

[Monsieur Toast]

The whole thing makes me want to throw up, post all my road bikes on PL Marketplace and go for a ride in the woods.

Seriously.


In my 40 years on Earth I've had a shotgun and I've had a handgun pulled on me. Both in the BFE woods. Try Mars, less humans.

[dbnm]

"a florida man..."

enough said.

[fried bake]

He brandished a Gun, which is illegal in many places. Not gonna bother checking Florida law, cause...Florida...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[54ny77]

Is that Dave Letterman's younger & paunchier doppelganger?

Moral of story, if you feel you're in the right, pull aside, call the police, don't say a word to the object of your ire. Not a single word until LEO arrives.

[Toeclips]

I watched the video

I'm sorry but if your riding, cars come much closer than that, I would not even had raised an eyebrow

In fact I had to watch twice because I thought I missed something, a different SUV maybe

I would never even think of stopping my ride for an almost close call...driver should have been alarmed

[rustychisel]

I watched the video... driver should have been alarmed

Alarmed to the point of casually brandishing a firearm?

That's appalling behavior and appalling entitlement. FUBAR. (the video suggests neither party acted well, but that's not my neighbourhood and not my world).

[Toeclips]

Fire arms is why I would never chase someone down

Then he could have gone much worse

I'm not saying the driver didn't come close, yes he did
it would have taken a lot more for me to confront someone

[vincenz]

I watched the video

I'm sorry but if your riding, cars come much closer than that, I would not even had raised an eyebrow

In fact I had to watch twice because I thought I missed something, a different SUV maybe

I would never even think of stopping my ride for an almost close call...driver should have been alarmed


Videos often don’t fully capture this well. By the time the car is in the frame, it’s already past the point of being next to the rider and doesn’t seem as close as it really was. You can look up other videos of close encounters and see the exact same phenomena.

[Toeclips]

Yeah I understand that the swerve in was closer than the sweep out as it appears on the video

I also do not want to appear insensitive to the cyclist I wasn't there but I would not have pursued the motorist

[biker72]

WHY why why would you try to reason with his driver??
You know what the outcome is going to be.
The cyclists are fortunate they didn't get shot.

[Peter P.]

I don't think the driver rose to the level of "brandishing" the gun as has been suggested.

I do think the driver knew what he was doing deliberately "inadvertently" making the gun visible when he was confronted with the cyclists.

He never threatened them with it or pointed it at them. It was a coy move, but I think intentional. The driver was likely a gun nut and the "Florida Stand Your Grounder".

Unless there was contact between the cyclists and the driver's vehicle, or the driver exhibited repeated, malicious movements with his vehicle to scare or harm the cyclists, there's not much that can be done. Those would be the only ways he'd be charged with violating Florida's 3 foot rule. THEN the camera footage would have been useful.

Yeah, it sucks, but the cyclists shouldn't have bothered to confront him.

[Jef58]

I watched the video

I'm sorry but if your riding, cars come much closer than that, I would not even had raised an eyebrow

In fact I had to watch twice because I thought I missed something, a different SUV maybe

I would never even think of stopping my ride for an almost close call...driver should have been alarmed

I'm on the other coast, on the beach, and this didn't look as bad as I thought before seeing the video. I, for the most part, have good luck with drivers giving me as much clearance as they can. Occasionally I get buzzed but never had anyone intentionally try to swerve into me. The 'get off the road' mentality is pretty rare too, though it does happen everywhere...not just busy Florida roads. I also would not approach any driver to start a confrontation just because...

Florida driving problems stem from poor light management and the lack of infrastructure keeping up with increased traffic. This has a tendency to make drivers a little more aggressive trying to beat the traffic. Not an excuse for inconsiderate driving though...

[oldpotatoe]

I don't think the driver rose to the level of "brandishing" the gun as has been suggested.

I do think the driver knew what he was doing deliberately "inadvertently" making the gun visible when he was confronted with the cyclists.

He never threatened them with it or pointed it at them. It was a coy move, but I think intentional. The driver was likely a gun nut and the "Florida Stand Your Grounder".

Unless there was contact between the cyclists and the driver's vehicle, or the driver exhibited repeated, malicious movements with his vehicle to scare or harm the cyclists, there's not much that can be done. Those would be the only ways he'd be charged with violating Florida's 3 foot rule. THEN the camera footage would have been useful.

Yeah, it sucks, but the cyclists shouldn't have bothered to confront him.

Can't see the video(taken down?) but if the gun is visible, it's 'brandishing' and in most cases is illegal.
If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in

[el cheapo]

Perfect example of why I moved away from Florida. The people in that state get worse and worse the more south you go. Anywhere from Palm Beach to Miami you are just a target on the road.

[Bruce K]

Not sure what the law is in FL (Stand Your Ground state) but if he didn’t actually threaten the cyclists with the firearm it is probably not brandishing.

FL has had issues for years along that part of A1A. There is a bike lane along a fair part of it but where it disappears cyclists can use the whole lane and driver’s don’t like it. One of our members was even nudged off the road by a police cruiser years ago when the officer decided he was not keeping to the right enough.

There is no way I would follow a driver in that area and confront them unless someone had been injured.

BK

[oldpotatoe]

Not sure what the law is in FL (Stand Your Ground state) but if he didn’t actually threaten the cyclists with the firearm it is probably not brandishing.

FL has had issues for years along that part of A1A. There is a bike lane along a fair part of it but where it disappears cyclists can use the whole lane and driver’s don’t like it. One of our members was even nudged off the road by a police cruiser years ago when the officer decided he was not keeping to the right enough.

There is no way I would follow a driver in that area and confront them unless someone had been injured.

BK

Not sure either but(deputy/local LEO??), if the cyclists call the cops and say, 'he took out his gun', taking out the gun, can be perceived as 'threatening them with a gun'...At the very least the guy will be taken in, lose his gun for at least some amount of time, may be charged, maybe not but a trip 'downtown' certainly would result, IMHO..He can say he was threatened but w/o any 'weapon' by cyclists, that would be a tough one. Just yelling at somebody doesn't trigger the 'stand your ground' law..w/o any 'touching/hitting/grabbing', involved. IMHO..not a lawyer or LEO..

[Bentley]

I see law enforcement as “enablers” with respect to drivers attitudes regarding cyclist. In my experience they do not enforce the laws that are written when they observe drivers being aggressive towards cyclist. Clearly a few “warnings” or tickets would likely change behavior.

That said, I always try to wave cars by, move to the side, but I have had my share of drivers running me off the road.

Exposing, brandishing a gun... I think it would as a minimum qualify as an assault, likely would not be enforced.

[josephr]

Fire arms is why I would never chase someone down

Then he could have gone much worse

I'm not saying the driver didn't come close, yes he did
it would have taken a lot more for me to confront someone

agree...this was your basic a-hole driver buzz. Not really worth the confrontation and likely to push the driver more aggressive towards cyclists.

[pobrien]

I watched the video a few times and it looks to me like there was evidence of two riders riding side by side and about three feet over the white line when the vehicle in question passed them.

I do not ride outside the white line whenever possible. To me, it looks like they were outside the line and not just a quick over and back to behind the line.

I take care when going outside the line where I ride and check for traffic as I drive as well and try to see both sides of any situation I am in or that I create.

Patrick

[572cv]

I get to ride A1A in that area once a year, down visiting family in Jan or Feb. It is one of the most heavily cycled and heavily patrolled roads I have ever seen, and at the same time the only redeeming feature of the trip, aside from the family thing. ANY driver, particularly one with a residence on or near the road, knows d*@n well that there will be tons of cyclists, landscaping vehicle convoys parked along the side of the road, and a serious speed limit on A1A. There are even signs, here and there, reminding motorists of the shared road. So, virtually anyone on this road, from at least Boca to Palm, might be reasonably expected to have adjusted expectations for getting somewhere fast, and for having to deal with things calmly. But as many posters have said, Florida can be lovely but strange, seductive and deadly, a place of massive contradictions and trade offs for someone like me. But lots of people are not like me, or Florida wouldn't be so popular.

[Bentley]

I watched the video a few times and it looks to me like there was evidence of two riders riding side by side and about three feet over the white line when the vehicle in question passed them.

I do not ride outside the white line whenever possible. To me, it looks like they were outside the line and not just a quick over and back to behind the line.

I take care when going outside the line where I ride and check for traffic as I drive as well and try to see both sides of any situation I am in or that I create.

Patrick

Just to be clear, in Florida that is known as the “Fog Line” that area is not a “Bike Lane” those are actually marked with a “Bike”. I tend to agree with the point of riding inside the “Fog Line” so as not to aggravate drivers, but in Florida if there is no marked bike lane you ride in the road and are legally allowed to use the whole lane, which I do not endorse.

Problem with riding inside the “Fog Line” is they can “disappear” in a minute and then you are fighting for your life with drivers.

[Toeclips]

Ok so I'm glad we all seem to agree on the video

So if I were to turn this into a teachable moment what could be done differently and still get the two bikes their say

Knowing that everybody is possibly armed, I would have waited for the driver to go shopping and just leave a note under his windshield wiper.

"To whom it may concern, I don't like the way you drive"

But I really don't pack spare memo pads and a pen with me, so I would have kept on

[Dino Suegiù]

I did not see any saints in that video.

Both parties were equally aggressively passive-aggressive, "last word" type jerks it seemed. The cyclists don't get absolution simply because they are cyclists. They escalated too.

Fortunately the incident didn't conclude in some more harmful manner for anyone involved.

[Dead Man]

I did not see any saints in that video.

Both parties were equally aggressively passive-aggressive, "last word" type jerks it seemed. The cyclists don't get absolution simply because they are cyclists. They escalated too.

Fortunately the incident didn't conclude in some more harmful manner for anyone involved.

never been in a situation where you felt righteously indignant? criticize both parties all you want, but the situation wouldnt have even happened if one asshole hadnt screwed with another asshole.

i can tell you if it'd been me coming around that corner and saw the same dickhead that just buzzed me holding a gun its quite likely i would have put two through his chest before waiting to see what his intentions were, and the good citizens of the state of florida wouldnt have had any reason to think that was unreasonable.

call me a "keyboard tough guy."

just leave people alone. let people ride their bikes. dont pull guns on people after making them think youre gonna run them over. if you do, expect really ****ty things to come of it. this stuff just isnt that hard.

[pobrien]

Thank you for clarifying this for me Bentley. I am in Vancouver in Canada and our road markings are not the same as in Florida.

I can see how unclear it all is now.

Please remind me not to visit Florida on a bicycle! Holy cow.

Patrick

[pncguy]

I did not watch the video. I started by reading the text below it and saw:

"Broglia followed the SUV into a parking lot where he and another cyclist had a verbal altercation with the driver."

This won't ever happen to me because I consider it my responsibility to be as safe as I can, assume that cars NEVER see me, and would NEVER try to educate someone on how they should be driving their vehicle.

It may be that the driver did lots of things that are "bad," and it may be that what the cyclists did was completely legal. I wouldn't allow myself to get into that situation in the first place.

[Robot870]

I did not watch the video. I started by reading the text below it and saw:

"Broglia followed the SUV into a parking lot where he and another cyclist had a verbal altercation with the driver."

This won't ever happen to me because I consider it my responsibility to be as safe as I can, assume that cars NEVER see me, and would NEVER try to educate someone on how they should be driving their vehicle.

It may be that the driver did lots of things that are "bad," and it may be that what the cyclists did was completely legal. I wouldn't allow myself to get into that situation in the first place.
I agree - I don't confront drivers anymore - Nothing good comes from it.....Plus in my hood its just not a good idea!

[shoota]

He brandished a Gun, which is illegal in many places. Not gonna bother checking Florida law, cause...Florida...



Dude did a lot of things wrong but he did not "brandish a firearm". He was putting it in his pocket well before the first cyclist rolled up.

[Mikej]

I have learned to let it go. That type of person is not going to change their opinion. And you could get really hurt. There are some messed up people that may be on the verge out there, just dont give them a reason.

[ultraman6970]

Im like mike, you have to let that go. Sucker screwed up, yes... but they should have let the guy go, or just see where the car is getting parked, and then comeback to check how deep the paint is :p

One thing is for sure, that old man got scared... probably he wont do it again.

Example, my street the speed limit is 25, when im back from the rides is uphill and it gets me out of my nerves that the drivers are passing me pretty much half car in the other line instead of keeping it closer to me. Which is a good thing but not that im used to you know.

[ddtn]

I can understand why the cyclists chased the driver down – it's two guys on an adrenaline rush and thought their lives were threatened. I can imagine myself doing the same, but it's a no win situation really, especially in Florida. What do you expect from the driver? Sincere apologies and a promise to never do it again? I would've tried very hard to let it go.

[NHAero]

I followed a driver in VW van a couple of weeks ago after a very close pass into the parking lot at the Chilmark Store (so right away you know he's not armed :) Got his attention before he got out, and said, I would appreciate it if you gave me more space when passing. His wife pops out of the passenger side and says, I told him he was too close! He was quite contrite.

If you're going to film an interaction, be nice on yr part. Gold standard is the bird watcher filming Amy Cooper in Central Park.

And I'd never do this in FL...

[bigbill]

Dude did a lot of things wrong but he did not "brandish a firearm". He was putting it in his pocket well before the first cyclist rolled up.

That was my impression too. The gun was in the car and he took it out after he parked. It was in his hand and he put it away in his pocket. I don't see brandish in any way. In AZ, you can carry a weapon in your car but it has to be in a holster even if it is in a seatback pocket.

[benb]

Do you follow someone into a parking lot like that cause you're so frustrated at how horrible it is to be a cyclist in Florida?

I am not sure what I would do instead but if I was forced to live in Florida I highly doubt I could continue to be a cyclist. Maybe get a boat or start scuba diving or something.

So what if the drivers are horrible.. make all the cars vanish and it would still not be a great place to be a cyclist considering the lack of altitude & the roads being dead straight.

Even if that was a close pass... no way in hell it would ever cross my mind to confront a driver for that. They already got by me without killing me.. things can only go downhill from pulling in the parking lot.

I would be "SMH" at myself way more if I had taken the bait and confronted the driver than I would have been over the pass itself.

[Dino Suegiù]

never been in a situation where you felt righteously indignant? criticize both parties all you want, but the situation wouldnt have even happened if one asshole hadnt screwed with another asshole.

i can tell you if it'd been me coming around that corner and saw the same dickhead that just buzzed me holding a gun its quite likely i would have put two through his chest before waiting to see what his intentions were, and the good citizens of the state of florida wouldnt have had any reason to think that was unreasonable.

call me a "keyboard tough guy."

just leave people alone. let people ride their bikes. dont pull guns on people after making them think youre gonna run them over. if you do, expect really ****ty things to come of it. this stuff just isnt that hard.
:eek:
Well, if you're gonna be putting "two through his chest before waiting to see what his intentions were" because some "dickhead" buzzed you, I personally wouldn't call you a "keyboard tough guy" or even a "tough guy" or even a "guy" really...I would just call you effing crazy.
:rolleyes:

[Dead Man]

:eek:
Well, if you're gonna be putting "two through his chest before waiting to see what his intentions were" because some "dickhead" buzzed you, I personally wouldn't call you a "keyboard tough guy" or even a "tough guy" or even a "guy" really...I would just call you effing crazy.
:rolleyes:

have you ever had a gun pulled on you? or had one involved in any kind of altercation? not even being there, just watching via video, when i saw that gun in his hand definitely NOT going immediately into his pocket, i absolutely expected to see it coming up and possibly going off in the cyclists direction. thats not crazy, its self preservation. and the law would absolutely be on my side, especially in florida.

[Bruce K]

Getting the feeling this has mostly run its course.

If there’s nothing new to add we should move on ....

BK

[Dino Suegiù]

have you ever had a gun pulled on you? or had one involved in any kind of altercation? not even being there, just watching via video, when i saw that gun in his hand definitely NOT going immediately into his pocket, i absolutely expected to see it coming up and possibly going off in the cyclists direction. thats not crazy, its self preservation. and the law would absolutely be on my side, especially in florida.

Yes I have. It scared the hell out of me.
I do not advocate gun violence anywhere, especially when couched as "machismo", let alone on a cycling forum.
Really....:rolleyes:

[Dino Suegiù]

Getting the feeling this has mostly run its course.

If there’s nothing new to add we should move on ....

BK
Please, yes.
Unbelievable.

[gdw]

He brandished a Gun, which is illegal in many places. Not gonna bother checking Florida law, cause...Florida...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

have you ever had a gun pulled on you? or had one involved in any kind of altercation? not even being there, just watching via video, when i saw that gun in his hand definitely NOT going immediately into his pocket, i absolutely expected to see it coming up and possibly going off in the cyclists direction. thats not crazy, its self preservation. and the law would absolutely be on my side, especially in florida.

Time to step away from the computer and get out of the house for awhile. Fresh air and exercise will do you a world of good.

[redir]

According to this article it was indeed brandishing under Florida law.

https://www.husseinandwebber.com/crimes/weapons-crimes/improper-exhibition-of-a-firearm-or-weapon/

My wife and I visit Florida just about every year and bring our bikes. Maybe they treat us different as we are in street cloths and often times riding to the fish market or the beach. But I've never had a problem down there.

It's really sad that so many Americans find it so easy to solve all thier problems with a gun. It's like they don't realize the repercussions of actually killing another human being.

If I was that cyclist I would be contacting the police.

[OtayBW]

I work in GA often where (at least in some counties) open-carry is permitted. Gives a whole nuther concept to what is 'brandishing', especially when you're sitting in a restaurant trying to have a peaceful meal....

[Bruce K]

Alright, now we’re drifting towards a discussion about guns and carry laws and that is not going to happen.

We’re done.

BK