Mystery bike--help with ID?

[dziehr]

I was extremely fortunate to have a very cool, purportedly 1970s Cinelli passed along to me by a member of the Harvard University Cycling Association. He reported the bike had been raced (unsuccessfully, no doubt) against John Allis in the '70s. It doesn't strike me as a Cinelli, though I could be wrong.

The bike either seems to have been repainted with the addition of 531 water transfers--or to have lost the original decals. It has fastback seatstays, distinctive headtube lugs, and clover-shaped lug and bottom bracket shell cutouts. The lugs were clearly carefully shaped and thinned; not amateur work. Campagnolo fork and frame dropouts as well as bottom bracket cable guides. The bottom bracket seems to have been stamped "327626"--suggesting work by a larger/more prolific company/builder? It's built with mostly Nuovo Record, Cinelli stem, bar, and cool pleated leather Unicanitor, and a heavy layer of dust and grime. It appears straight and true, with some corrosion and flaking but no structural issues or dents.

While the patina is impressive, I plan to clean it up with the ultimate direction likely depending on what it is. I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts on what this is (our could be)!

(I have since done significant weeding around the yard.)

[dziehr]

Wait, is this an Eisentraut?!

[ultraman6970]

Has a head on crash or mi wrong?

Cool gift man :) I would just rescue as mas as posible and then maybe give away the frame.

BTW the lugs have like a T carved, ive seen that shape before but cant remember the name :/ italian tho.

[buddybikes]

Poor thing...

[charliedid]

Has a head on crash or mi wrong?

Cool gift man :) I would just rescue as mas as posible and then maybe give away the frame.

BTW the lugs have like a T carved, ive seen that shape before but cant remember the name :/ italian tho.

Sure looks like it was crashed doesn't it?

[choke]

BTW the lugs have like a T carved, ive seen that shape before but cant remember the name :/ italian tho.They look similar to Tommasini cutouts but it's really hard to tell from that angle. I can't tell if they are Ts or three connected circles like the BB cutout.

To the OP, some better shots of the lug cutouts would be helpful.

[dziehr]

Wasn't crashed; that's an unfortunate angle and a bubble in the paint where there's a bit of corrosion. Nothing on the other side, no downtube wrinkle, and looks totally straight.

[dziehr]

They look similar to Tommasini cutouts but it's really hard to tell from that angle. I can't tell if they are Ts or three connected circles like the BB cutout.

To the OP, some better shots of the lug cutouts would be helpful.

I'll take some additional pictures. Three intersecting circles, not so much like the Tommasini cutouts

[gbcoupe]

The seat and chain stay ends would lead me to think it's English. Other than that, I've got nothing.

Does look like front end damage. Other than that, nice looking work.

[dziehr]

The seat and chain stay ends would lead me to think it's English. Other than that, I've got nothing.

Does look like front end damage. Other than that, nice looking work.

I'll take better pictures; unfortunate angle in the ones posted that make it look like there's a wrinkle in the top tube (there's not). Thanks for your thoughts!

[charliedid]

I swear I've seen that seat lug before.

[oliver1850]

Hey Dave, glad to see that you are still with us. Are you still in Boston?

Were there braze-on TT brake cable guides or was the frame built for clamps? Seems a bit unusual that it has DT shifter bosses but lacks braze-on brake cable routing. Campagnolo dropouts? Is that a 531 decal on the fork?

I don't see any details that would pin down the builder, but that round hole in the seat lug is something that strikes me as unique/unusual.

[dziehr]

Hey Dave, glad to see that you are still with us. Are you still in Boston?

Were there braze-on TT brake cable guides or was the frame built for clamps? Seems a bit unusual that it has DT shifter bosses but lacks braze-on brake cable routing. Campagnolo dropouts? Is that a 531 decal on the fork?

I don't see any details that would pin down the builder, but that round hole in the seat lug is something that strikes me as unique/unusual.

Hey! Still in Boston, and will be for the foreseeable future! You as well?

No evidence of cable guides on the top tube--must have been built for clamps, which likely dates it. 531 water transfers on the fork legs and frame. Fork and frame dropouts are Campagnolo, rear look to be 1010(A?). I think I misspoke earlier--I actually don't recall seeing Campagnolo stamped on the cable guides on the BB, another reason making me think this could be an Eisentraut (that, and the head tube lugs and fastback seat stays).

[choke]

The head tube lugs are Prugnat, like in this Hurlow. https://www.facebook.com/HilaryStoneCycles/posts/a-1964-bill-hurlow-built-with-prugnat-lugs-i-think-the-are-in-some-ways-more-bea/1895467280710787/

And this Holdsworth. http://www.nkilgariff.com/HoldsModelPages/SuperMistral.htm

Here's a similar seat lug on a different Hurlow. http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=174794

I'm not saying that it's a Hurlow though, as the other details....cutouts on lugs, BB cutout, don't match. It's possible that the seat lug came with the hole.

It does make one think that it could be English though.

[oliver1850]

Hey! Still in Boston, and will be for the foreseeable future! You as well?

No evidence of cable guides on the top tube--must have been built for clamps, which likely dates it. 531 water transfers on the fork legs and frame. Fork and frame dropouts are Campagnolo, rear look to be 1010(A?). I think I misspoke earlier--I actually don't recall seeing Campagnolo stamped on the cable guides on the BB, another reason making me think this could be an Eisentraut (that, and the head tube lugs and fastback seat stays).

No, though I'd like to visit family sites (from 250 years ago) in the area before I croak. I bought some parts from you around 10 years ago at the Madison swap meet.

I agree about the fastback stays being another possible clue. I'd put the frame in the late 70s time frame based on the details. Fastback stays weren't very common. I have a Bob Jackson frame that is similar in having fastback stays/clamp brake cable routing/braze on DT shifter bosses, but I haven't been able to pin down year of production. Guessing late 70s.

Hope that it turns out that you have an Eisentraut, would be a nice find.

[Steve in SLO]

Wait, is this an Eisentraut?!

Not an Eisentraut, IMHO, because headtube lugs and BB cutout are wrong.
Whatever it is, it was likely top of the range in it's time.

[Tandem Rider]

Thinned lugs, fastback stays, selection of braze ons, and domed ends at the dropouts says late 70s USA frame. There were bunch of builders back then too. Looks like a nice frame no matter who built it.

[Tz779]

well Allis use to hang out at Belmont Wheelworks, he was co-owner with Mooney. maybe still is, idk.

[dziehr]

Head tube is pretty similar to this:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/kfe11.jpg

(And similar seat stays to this bike.)

I thought about Mooney, though this didn't seem in line with his past work.

I'll take a few more pictures and see if there's a serial number on the steerer tube.

[Tz779]

no, did not mean to imply it was a Mooney. If the dude raced with Allis, he may recall the bike or prev owner. i have seen exactly *one* albert e frame. it had an “E” with serial number, fwiw.

[roguedog]

I'd post to the Bike Forums Classics (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/) section. Amazing group of knowledgeable people in here.

[dziehr]

Thanks for the thoughts. I'll definitely post over in Bike Forums (am a member and just discovered that my last login was in 2011...)

A few findings that likely place the bike in England (or made from English bits):

- the bottle cage bolts are engraved Andrew Hague--who apparently supplied framebuilding materials to the UK and some builders in Massachusetts... (http://www.smontanaro.net/2006-10/html/msg01006.html)

- the seat post binder hex bolt is imperial, not metric

- a few more pics:

[ultraman6970]

There was a guy in chile that made that same seatpost clamp, and honestly would be mental if one if the frame is one of his.