Ticks in the NE

[duff_duffy]

Anyone seeing an uptick in ticks in the north east (southern NJ area)? My wife, son, and I took 1 hour hike on a trail in the woods and found over 50 ticks on us, we stopped counting at that point, total number probably closer to 75. Going to have to invest in some bug/tick spray companies! Just sharing to keep an eye out for them if out in the woods. This crushed my old record, not the PR I was going for. Hope the rain today washes them all away. Cool trail though!

[echappist]

Doesnt surprise me one iota (i lived in the mid-Atlantic until last year)

Use permethrin to treat all exterior clothing (I use Sawyer’s spray that can be found at REI) and apply DEET on all exposed skin.

Ticks are no laughing matters, unfortunately.

[Hilltopperny]

We had a lot of wood ticks around this spring. Bought a bunch of chickens to free range around the yard and haven’t seen many around since. They were particularly bad from April to May though. The dog couldn’t go out without me finding some crawling around on her or already attached!


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[R3awak3n]

same here, ticks this year have been pretty bad. Had to pull one off me already and plenty been crawling on me, wife and dog.

[benb]

We supposedly have tons of them here (MA).

I have probably hiked more this year in the woods than any year in my life due to the pandemic and lockdown.

I haven't found a single one this year. I do avoid tall grass pretty darn hard though and I am constantly telling my kid to stay away from stuff.

My personal/family experience is by far the biggest risk factor with the ticks & lyme's disease is having a dog you take out on walks...

I have only gotten a tick on me once riding my whole life.. and that was on Martha's Vineyard of all places, MTBing near tall grass.

I got one one on my leg 10 years ago in North Carolina walking on the side of the road, super weird spot as there was no tall grass.

Haven't been bit yet.

The other one I found on me was in the house when I had a housemate... who had a dog. Pretty sure that one came in on the dog. It had not bit me, but that one was scary cause it was a deer tick.

I think biking (even MTB) is significantly safer than walking in terms of getting ticks.

[paredown]

We're in a hot zone in the lower Hudson--I have been diagnosed and treated for Lyme multiple times, one time for a co-infection that attacks your white blood cells...

Don't mess with ticks. Dog (brown) ticks are not the problem--it is the deer ticks that carry Lyme.

Permethrin treated clothing is available and is worth buying--even just tucking pant legs inside sprayed socks is a help. They can't hop, so they rely on you getting close so they can drop on you. Lawns are typically OK--but brush is bad. Any place that is a natural deer trail with brush is best avoided.

One of the things they love are Barberry bushes--which have naturalized all over this area--they are the perfect micro-climate for ticks to live in

[Allcarbon]

50 - 75 ticks?? :eek: No thanks....

[NHAero]

Lotsa ticks on Martha's Vineyard, and what's scary this year is that the Lone Star tick population seems to be on the rise. A friend was recently hospitalized for three days after a tick bite, and she had three different tick-borne diseases transmitted. I try to wear tights and long sleeve shirts as long into the summer as I can get away with. I use Bullfrog because it is both a sunscreen and a non-DEET insect repellent on all exposed skin. Knock on wood, no tick bites from MTBing.

We find it necessary that the dog have a tick collar. I'm convinced that the deer tick bites I've had in the past year came from the dog, because I found them on me in the morning after getting out of bed.

[Bruce K]

I’ve found a couple from being out in a field.

Nothing in our dog yet - good meds and good collar.

So far, so good.

BK

[Blue Jays]

Finding 50-75 ticks on me would put that area off-limits pronto! :banana:

[duff_duffy]

Yep, this trail is off limits from now on! At first we just picked 2 or 3 off us 10 minutes in, then a few more, and 30 minutes in we were all kinda grossed out. They seemed to multiply on way back. On ride home found a few still crawling and another two later at night...

[veloduffer]

I don't hike much but I do golf. If my ball goes into the woods (which happens often), I will only look from the grass edge. It's not worth getting Lyme disease, even if it is a $4/ball.

I have several friends whose health has been impacted significantly. It's like some sci-fi movie!

[Mikej]

Permethrin is the way, ticks laugh at DEET, regardless of the %

[R3awak3n]

you def don't fux with ticks. I got bit a few years ago without even knowing. Woke up with fever, a gigantic bullseye on the side of my leg. Felt like I was really sick with the flu but no cough or other systems. Just tired and fever. Of course it was lymes. Took antibiotics for 21 days and felt fine.

I just got bit but it looked like the tick had not been there too long, was definitely a deer tick and I was gonna send it to the lab but at $50, everytime I get one, its gonna get expensive so I just kept an eye on it and I think it didn't get me this time.

[wc1934]

Yup - ticks are nothing to fool with.

And if that isn't bad enough, EEE virus was detected in mosquitoes sampled in two MA towns within the past week - expecting another active year.

[Robot870]

Ticks will destroy your life - used to live on Long Island and it was a disaster dealing with those things.......Lots of friends have major issues from limes!

[AngryScientist]

do you think it has to do with the swampy hot humid weather we have been having the last couple weeks?

i know it's july, but it seems like it has been more days in the really bad hot/humid zone than years before this season?

[slambers3]

do you think it has to do with the swampy hot humid weather we have been having the last couple weeks?

i know it's july, but it seems like it has been more days in the really bad hot/humid zone than years before this season?

Probably the abnormally warm winter we had

[daker13]

I have to say along with benb, I've seen far fewer ticks this summer than in past summers. I saw few last year as well. I live in a high tick area like a lot of other people posting, but I haven't seen one tick this summer, on either me or my dog. My parents live in northern NH, and there were never ticks there until about 20 years ago, then suddenly ticks (deer and dog) all over the place; this summer my dad hasn't seen any ticks.

I got lyme disease around 2000 (I'm pretty sure from mountain biking at Big River here in RI), thank god no lingering effects, but I'm super-tick obsessive and always pay attention to ticks. It's been very dry here, so that might have something to do with the lack of ticks in my area. But anytime I read an article about ticks, it always says that there are more ticks than ever and the tick population is doing nothing but growing. Having spent a lot of time in RI when you couldn't go out in the woods without a scene like the one the op describes, I find it weird that people around here seem to be acting like the tick population hasn't changed. (Now I'm sure to find a tick on me when I go out tomorrow.)

[djg21]

Permethrin is the way, ticks laugh at DEET, regardless of the %

Don’t use DEET on dogs; and it’s not a good idea to use Permethrin on you or your dogs if you have cats. DEET is toxic to dogs, as Permethrin is to cats.

I use a Picardin-based repellant, and I spray some in my hand and rub it on my dogs’ chest and the top of their heads before we venture into the woods. This is on top of Frontline.

[oliver1850]

I have only seen one here this year - on the kitchen counter presumably brushed off my arm while at the sink. Thickest I ever saw them was on a ride with buldogge (Mark) in west central IL several years ago. We were in a wooded area, trying to find a bridge/ford across a creek that was on the maps but which we never did find. At some point while walking in the woods, we looked down and saw hundreds/thousands of ticks on the ground and climbing.

[Mikej]

Don’t use DEET on dogs; and it’s not a good idea to use Permethrin on you or your dogs if you have cats. DEET is toxic to dogs, as Permethrin is to cats.

I use a Picardin-based repellant, and I spray some in my hand and rub it on my dogs’ chest and the top of their heads before we venture into the woods. This is on top of Frontline.

I thought we were talking people- but good advice on the household animals- I generally use the vet supplied Frontline. Ticks just aren’t repelled, they have to be killed with chemicals.

[R3awak3n]

I thought we were talking people- but good advice on the household animals- I generally use the vet supplied Frontline. Ticks just aren’t repelled, they have to be killed with chemicals.

yeah we use Frontline too and it works well.

[djg21]

I thought we were talking people- but good advice on the household animals- I generally use the vet supplied Frontline. Ticks just aren’t repelled, they have to be killed with chemicals.

Both sort of. Dogs are more likely to pick up ticks than people, given that they’re running through grass and vegetation and unable to remove ticks that have not yet embedded. You can use a Picardin repellent on your dog in addition to Frontline. Frontline kills ticks after they’ve embed, but before they can transmit pathogens that cause Lyme or other tick-borne diseases. It doesn’t repel ticks. If ticks get on your animal, they can drop off in your home before they embed.

[NHAero]

We use Frontline and a tick collar

Both sort of. Dogs are more likely to pick up ticks than people, given that they’re running through grass and vegetation and unable to remove ticks that have not yet embedded. You can use a Picardin repellent on your dog in addition to Frontline. Frontline kills ticks after they’ve embed, but before they can transmit pathogens that cause Lyme or other tick-borne diseases. It doesn’t repel ticks. If ticks get on your animal, they can drop off in your home before they embed.

[54ny77]

yes it can be life altering. good friend had it very bad, from tick bite.

Ticks will destroy your life - used to live on Long Island and it was a disaster dealing with those things.......Lots of friends have major issues from limes!

[fmradio516]

Ugh i hate them. Ive never had one but my wife and MIL both had Lyme and it doesnt sound fun.

Whats weird is that Ive been going mountain biking pretty much every week, sometimes multiple times a week for the past two seasons and i fall into all kinds of stuff off the trail. ive never had one on me once. Really weird..

If I could go back in time and stop that ex-Nazi scientist on Plum Island....

[Toddtwenty2]

Ticks are aweful.

Our dog just almost died from Rocky Mountain Tick Fever, despite being on Tick prevention medicine. He was effectively paralyzed within three days of showing symptoms with a terrible fever and some vertigo/stroke symptoms. Heavy doses of Prednisone brought him back, but it seems to have aged him years.

We have been doing controlled burns in MI to try to help, but it doesn’t seem to be working particularly well. I believe we are better off than the NE, but doubtfully by any large measure. Perhaps we breed and release huge numbers of roads and guinea fowl next?

[daker13]

If I could go back in time and stop that ex-Nazi scientist on Plum Island....

Word. I was just describing some of the various tick-related conspiracy theories to my brother in law...

[paredown]

There was a study for tick prevention in the NE that was proving effective--IIRC the test site was Fire Island? The cycle is ticks pick up the infection from white mice, then they must feed on a large mammal to grow, so where you have mice and deer, you have ticks carrying Lyme. They set up salt licks for deer, with a set of paint roller type attachments, so that when the deer stuck their heads in to lick the salt, these rollers, treated with permethrin would brush across the heads/necks of the deer. Simple, cheap and as far as they studied--quite effective. But they got their funding pulled, and it was never studied in enough detail, nor did they have time to figure out if it would scale. It is not a conspiracy, just indifference.

Government conspiracies aside--the lack of effective treatment for Lyme is a public health scandal on the scale of the denial over AIDs, except the gay community forced the CDC to fund research for the latter.

For Lyme, the CDC and Center for Infectious Disease protocols rely on basic studies that were badly done, a blood test that is a titer (studies the byproducts of infection) that is not accurate and does not provide results in the critical first week or two as the infection takes hold, and a treatment protocol which works in most cases, but leaves others suffering residual effects.

After years (15-20?) of dismissing the concerns of thousands upon thousands of patients who had ongoing effects from Lyme infections (and who were being told by their doctors that they were more or less imagining their symptoms), and vigorously attacking other doctors who insisted that there were residual effects under the rubric of 'Chronic Lyme'--which the Center for Infectious Disease and the CDC insisted DID NOT EXIST--they changed their minds, except they had to rename the problem to save face.

So now the medical establishment are calling these lingering effects "post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome" (PTLDS)--and actually admitting that the doctors (who for years were attacked and reviled for pointing out that they had sick patients who had been healthy up to the point they got Lyme, who had been treated with standard protocols and yet had lingering and often debilitating health effects) had been right! Sort of.

And yet--we still have inadequate research, an inadequate test (Western Blot titer), a standard therapy (the full course of Doxy) which is not always effective--and apparently very little research that is ongoing. Part of this is that health insurance companies are all in when something can be provided cheaper. There is a better blood test but it is expensive for example.

For an example of bad science--the CID treatment protocol of a full course of Doxy relies on an early study where they excluded from treatment those who were infected with Lyme but DID NOT display the classic bullseye rash, and this has been the foundational study for the standard Doxy treatment. And yet--more recent studies have shown than only a small subset will get the bullseye rash (some studies put it as low as ~20% of infected people).

I could go on--but anyone who knows someone who has suffered with Lyme, the best book I have read--not a quack, but a solid thinking MD who is a good clinician:
"Why Can't I Get Better? Solving the Mystery of Lyme and Chronic Disease: Solving the Mystery of Lyme and Chronic Disease" (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1250019400/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

[Veloo]

We have them up here in Toronto too.

[NHAero]

A couple of years ago two leading Lyme researchers based at Johns Hopkins gave a presentation here on MV. Ten years of research, all privately funded, impossible to get any federal funds.

There was a study for tick prevention in the NE that was proving effective--IIRC the test site was Fire Island? The cycle is ticks pick up the infection from white mice, then they must feed on a large mammal to grow, so where you have mice and deer, you have ticks carrying Lyme. They set up salt licks for deer, with a set of paint roller type attachments, so that when the deer stuck their heads in to lick the salt, these rollers, treated with permethrin would brush across the heads/necks of the deer. Simple, cheap and as far as they studied--quite effective. But they got their funding pulled, and it was never studied in enough detail, nor did they have time to figure out if it would scale. It is not a conspiracy, just indifference.

Government conspiracies aside--the lack of effective treatment for Lyme is a public health scandal on the scale of the denial over AIDs, except the gay community forced the CDC to fund research for the latter.

For Lyme, the CDC and Center for Infectious Disease protocols rely on basic studies that were badly done, a blood test that is a titer (studies the byproducts of infection) that is not accurate and does not provide results in the critical first week or two as the infection takes hold, and a treatment protocol which works in most cases, but leaves others suffering residual effects.

After years (15-20?) of dismissing the concerns of thousands upon thousands of patients who had ongoing effects from Lyme infections (and who were being told by their doctors that they were more or less imagining their symptoms), and vigorously attacking other doctors who insisted that there were residual effects under the rubric of 'Chronic Lyme'--which the Center for Infectious Disease and the CDC insisted DID NOT EXIST--they changed their minds, except they had to rename the problem to save face.

So now the medical establishment are calling these lingering effects "post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome" (PTLDS)--and actually admitting that the doctors (who for years were attacked and reviled for pointing out that they had sick patients who had been healthy up to the point they got Lyme, who had been treated with standard protocols and yet had lingering and often debilitating health effects) had been right! Sort of.

And yet--we still have inadequate research, an inadequate test (Western Blot titer), a standard therapy (the full course of Doxy) which is not always effective--and apparently very little research that is ongoing. Part of this is that health insurance companies are all in when something can be provided cheaper. There is a better blood test but it is expensive for example.

For an example of bad science--the CID treatment protocol of a full course of Doxy relies on an early study where they excluded from treatment those who were infected with Lyme but DID NOT display the classic bullseye rash, and this has been the foundational study for the standard Doxy treatment. And yet--more recent studies have shown than only a small subset will get the bullseye rash (some studies put it as low as ~20% of infected people).

I could go on--but anyone who knows someone who has suffered with Lyme, the best book I have read--not a quack, but a solid thinking MD who is a good clinician:
"Why Can't I Get Better? Solving the Mystery of Lyme and Chronic Disease: Solving the Mystery of Lyme and Chronic Disease" (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1250019400/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

[fmradio516]

Whats also incredible is that it has stayed pretty confined to the Northeast. I talked to my manager who is a big outdoors guy in Utah and he knows nothing about Lyme.

Whenever I take the ferry from Orient Point to New London, we pass by Plum island and I just get an eerie feeling about whats happened there.

Moving to CT in a month or so and we'll have 10 acres of land that I definitely want to build a small bike trail on. If I move the leaves/branches away from the path and its just dirt and at least two arms length wide, should I be ok? As long as there isnt any protruding branches I could rub up against?

[benb]

I have to say along with benb, I've seen far fewer ticks this summer than in past summers. I saw few last year as well. I live in a high tick area like a lot of other people posting, but I haven't seen one tick this summer, on either me or my dog. My parents live in northern NH, and there were never ticks there until about 20 years ago, then suddenly ticks (deer and dog) all over the place; this summer my dad hasn't seen any ticks.

I got lyme disease around 2000 (I'm pretty sure from mountain biking at Big River here in RI), thank god no lingering effects, but I'm super-tick obsessive and always pay attention to ticks. It's been very dry here, so that might have something to do with the lack of ticks in my area. But anytime I read an article about ticks, it always says that there are more ticks than ever and the tick population is doing nothing but growing. Having spent a lot of time in RI when you couldn't go out in the woods without a scene like the one the op describes, I find it weird that people around here seem to be acting like the tick population hasn't changed. (Now I'm sure to find a tick on me when I go out tomorrow.)

So the weird thing about me not finding any this year and I have no idea if it's at all related to what you're seeing.

- I have not seen a single deer this year
- I have seen multiple coyotes, foxes, etc.. I saw a Coyote on my street this spring.. and I am considered to basically "live in the village" in our town, in the least suburban part of town. (Can walk to almost everything.)

I don't think Coyotes ever take deer, and Foxes definitely don't, but I don't know what is up with the deer population.

The deer tick population is supposedly tied with the deer. I have no idea where the deer are.

To have not seen any this year is nuts. I went for a ride yesterday along a route I have done hundreds of times for 20 years now. I have seen 25+ deer on a single day on this ride before in past years. I never saw a Coyote till the last 5 years, and now I'm in this bizarro world where I'm seeing Coyotes and not deer.

I think people would be freaking if we started having wolves in Eastern MA/RI/CT but anything that helped control the deer would probably be good. Hard to say anyway cause they say our Coyotes are bigger than normal anyway from cross breeding with wolves/dogs.

edit: Guess I was totally wrong.. just did a Google search and it sounds like Coyotes do take even healthy adult deer, local wisdom here is wrong. The hunting community seems to think a healthy coyote population will take 75% of fawns.

[sparky33]

A couple of years ago two leading Lyme researchers based at Johns Hopkins gave a presentation here on MV. Ten years of research, all privately funded, impossible to get any federal funds.


Did they mention lone star ticks? I’m picking up more of those this summer riding by the grasses and scrub brush of the MV woodlands. The lone star carries lesser known maladies.

Seeing deer frequently but not many deer ticks.

[paredown]

Whats also incredible is that it has stayed pretty confined to the Northeast. I talked to my manager who is a big outdoors guy in Utah and he knows nothing about Lyme.

Whenever I take the ferry from Orient Point to New London, we pass by Plum island and I just get an eerie feeling about whats happened there.

Moving to CT in a month or so and we'll have 10 acres of land that I definitely want to build a small bike trail on. If I move the leaves/branches away from the path and its just dirt and at least two arms length wide, should I be ok? As long as there isnt any protruding branches I could rub up against?
Probably. They can't jump, only drop on prey, which requires you brushing against or being under vegetation. And they don't climb very high because they want to eat...

One simple add--get some permethrin treated cotton batting, and some left over TP tubes, stuff said tubes with clumps of the cotton, and scatter those around in places where you see field mice/small critters. Mice take the cotton back to make nests cozy, and the permethrin kills ticks. Simple and cheap. (there are commercial versions).

Spray with cedar oil--eco and apparently helps. Eradicate Barberry bushes--they have naturalized all over the NE, but apparently provide the perfect microclimate for tick production. Or get Guinea fowl who eat ticks like crazy, as has been mentioned.

Most of all, practice good hygiene--wear trousers while working, along with long sleeves, permethrin treated clothing (or at least spray-yourself socks pulled over the trousers), and a permethrin treated neck scarf while working in the bush. Returning inside, clothes into a hot dryer for a short cycle, and then washed. Shower immediately and get your partner to do a tick check on the parts you can't inspect yourself.

Sadly-- it took me too long--and getting knocked on my ass--to get serious about them.

And the thing is, these are small critters--about the size of a grain of rice when adult, even smaller when already infectious in the nymph stage. And I can't emphasize too much--some estimates think as few as 25% will show the bullseye--which is usually how people realize that they have been bitten--so that leaves a lot of people out there who have been infected and don't know it.

Take-away: There is no such thing as "summer flu"--so if you have been outside in the summer in the NE--and you have flu-like symptoms--get tested for Lyme, even if you have to pay.

I have a cooperative doctor and an infectious disease guy now, but in the past I have argued for--and had included--a Lyme test while they were drawing blood for normal blood panels, sometimes having to pay, other times they have included it, so if you think you may have had a past infection and are having random health problems that include a stiff neck, pseudo-arthritis and a host of other stuff, get tested.

[ddtn]

I was on a hike in a wooded area in Kent, here on the southeast coast of the UK last summer and ended up with a tick on my inner thigh. This happened in mid-July, I had no symptoms other than fatigue until September, when half of my face went from numb to frozen in a matter of days (Bell's Palsy). Tested weak positive for Lyme, been having central nerve related issues since.

It's no joke. I had no idea ticks were a thing here, and most NHS doctors had no idea either. Medical people here tend to think it's a hoax.

[daker13]

So the weird thing about me not finding any this year and I have no idea if it's at all related to what you're seeing.

- I have not seen a single deer this year
- I have seen multiple coyotes, foxes, etc.. I saw a Coyote on my street this spring.. and I am considered to basically "live in the village" in our town, in the least suburban part of town. (Can walk to almost everything.)

I don't think Coyotes ever take deer, and Foxes definitely don't, but I don't know what is up with the deer population.

The deer tick population is supposedly tied with the deer. I have no idea where the deer are.

To have not seen any this year is nuts. I went for a ride yesterday along a route I have done hundreds of times for 20 years now. I have seen 25+ deer on a single day on this ride before in past years. I never saw a Coyote till the last 5 years, and now I'm in this bizarro world where I'm seeing Coyotes and not deer.

I think people would be freaking if we started having wolves in Eastern MA/RI/CT but anything that helped control the deer would probably be good. Hard to say anyway cause they say our Coyotes are bigger than normal anyway from cross breeding with wolves/dogs.

edit: Guess I was totally wrong.. just did a Google search and it sounds like Coyotes do take even healthy adult deer, local wisdom here is wrong. The hunting community seems to think a healthy coyote population will take 75% of fawns.

Interesting! Well, I've seen deer this spring/summer, and my town has had a 'coyote problem' (not actually a problem, in my view, though one did maul my dog a few years ago [his fault]) but I've seen few if any this summer. Also seen a few foxes. And I know that coyotes definitely will take down a deer...

But, I agree with your hypothesis: I do think that the presence of coyotes might lead to less ticks. Either by killing/driving away deer that carry ticks, or eating the field mice that many experts say are the real carriers of ticks. There is supposedly a study of an island in Maine that was crazy with deer and Lyme disease; when they invited hunters back to get rid of the deer, the ticks went away and Lyme disease disappeared. And, anecdotally, I used to walk my dog on the abandoned property mentioned above (about 40 acres), and I noticed that as the place fell into disrepair and was 're-wilded,' there were actually less ticks rather than more.

[NHAero]

Yes.
Friend was recently hospitalized at MVH for three days from a tick bite, and was diagnosed with three separate tick borne diseases! Another friend, landscaper, ran into the local tick expert in Aquinnah and he says Lone Star have been more numerous in his collection efforts this season.


Did they mention lone star ticks? I’m picking up more of those this summer riding by the grasses and scrub brush of the MV woodlands. The lone star carries lesser known maladies.

Seeing deer frequently but not many deer ticks.

[C40_guy]

I try to wear tights and long sleeve shirts as long into the summer as I can get away with.

When I'm trail running I wear slightly higher socks and calf sleeves. If it's not too hot, I'll also wear arm sleeves...

And I'm spending less time on the single track now as the grasses and underbrush are starting to overgrow the trails.

I usually jump right into the outdoor shower after a run, or ride, and hope that any little passengers will get washed off before I ever get into the house...

[Mikej]

Throw your clothes in the drier right after being in the woods. 10 minutes kills those little bastards.

[djg21]

With the warmer winters we’ve had in the NE lately, the populations of small mammals like rabbits, squirrels, chipmunks, etc. seem to have exploded where I am in upstate NY. This means that there are more blood meals available for ticks.

[sonicCows]

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