Advice needed: vintage shamal rear wheel locked up on ride

[ravdg316]

I bought these wheels here on the forum. Even though the bearings never felt that smooth on the rear wheel since the day I bought them, they were still some of the fastest wheels I’ve ever had.

Last night riding around my hood, the rear wheel locked up. When I removed the rear wheel, I noticed the cassette seemed loose, so I tightened it. However, tightening the cassette only made the freewheel even tighter.

Then, I removed the cassette from the wheel. Without the cassette on it, the wheel spins but not very smoothly, but basically the way it spun when I first got it. As soon as I tighten the cassette on it the freewheel won’t budge without some significant force.

Would love some advice. These are early 2000s Shamals. What should I check and where can I find bearings for these if they need replacing? Thanks!

[parris]

I may very well be wrong but it sounds like your free hub may have gone South.

[Hindmost]

What cassette are you running?

[ravdg316]

I may very well be wrong but it sounds like your free hub may have gone South.

Bummer. Could you elaborate on this? I always assumed you can replace bearings.

[ravdg316]

What cassette are you running?

Campagnolo 11 speed Chorus, 11-29. It's a 9-12 freehub

[jtakeda]

Campagnolo 11 speed Chorus, 11-29. It's a 9-12 freehub

Did you do the freehub mod? Or did it come with the 9-12 freehub?

And pics?

[djdj]

check the freehub body. it may be cracked such that tightening the cassette causes the freehub body to rub against the wheel hub.

[ravdg316]

check the freehub body. it may be cracked such that tightening the cassette causes the freehub body to rub against the wheel hub.

No visible cracks!

[parris]

I have a couple different Fulcrum wheels that take 2 different freehub styles so what I'm saying may not translate to your wheels.

Often times a freehub will have internal bearings that are independent of bearings that the axle with it's races ride on. If some of those internal bearings break due to age etc that can cause binding in the whole system. Another thing that could possibly cause a binding problem is if any of the pawls in the freehub break and the pieces get wedged internally.

I've seen this happen with old freewheels and a few freehubs over the years.

You may want to pull the freehub off the hub body to see if this could be the issue. Hope this helps.

Quick add... does the freehub body have a fair amount of wobble without the cassette installed and does it rotate easily?

[Mike V]

Those wheels have old Record hubs and spin for days......DAYs

When I buy used vintage wheels I like to rebuild the hubs. I don't know the miles so I rebuild them and replace what is needed. Peace of mind.


I think you should rebuild both hubs or find a shop that can. Find a shop that know Campagnolo or send them to Old Tater. Let him get all zen with the hubs.

You will be amazed how thos hubs spin when rebuilt and adjusted.

[Mark McM]

Campagnolo 11 speed Chorus, 11-29. It's a 9-12 freehub

Unfortunately, it is likely that your wheels are not 11spd compatible. While the freehub body splines may be the same as for 9spd - 12spd, not all hub shells have clearance for 10/11/12spd cassettes.

It is a bit of a misunderstanding to think that 9spd -12spd cassettes are the same width. They are not - as each additional sprocket was added, the cassettes got wider. In order to fit these wider wider cassettes onto the same freehub splines, the bottom (biggest) sprocket has been shifted inward, toward the spokes. If you take a look at the back of your 11spd cassette, you'll see that there is a step in center of the the bottom sprocket, allowing this sprocket to sit further inboard than the base of the splines.

Early Shamal wheels used hour-glass shaped HPW hubs, in which the drive-side hub flange was almost even with the base of the freehub splines. There was enough clearance for 9spd cassettes, and even 10spd cassettes. But 11spd cassettes shift the bottom sprocket so far inboard that the sprocket hits the flange, so when you tighten the lockring, it tightens the cassette against the flange.

I've got a slightly older Shamal wheel, around '98, and I just tried fitting various cassettes onto it. The 9spd cassette fine. The 10spd cassette had just enough clearance that the freehub spun easily. But when I put the 11spd cassette on and tightened the lockring, it locked the cassette to the flange, and the freehub wouldn't spin at all. I don't have any 12spd sprockets, but I'm sure the situation is even worse.

[parris]

Mark good call on the differences. I completely missed that it was an 11 speed cassette. My earlier Racing-3's were 10 speed. I was able to pick up an 11 speed freehub for it a couple of years ago. I don't know if this is an option for the OP but it may be worth exploring.

[dddd]

Also, as the drive-side hubshell-to-axle bearings wear, and the non-driveside bearing is adjusted "tighter", the hubshell shifts ever so slightly toward the freehub body. So the aged bearings supporting the hubshell may be causing interference between the hub shell and the freehub body or cassette.
Especially as this wheel has a history of rough bearings, I would check for a worn driveside axle bearing first, before condemning the compatibility.

[Mark McM]

Also, as the drive-side hubshell-to-axle bearings wear, and the non-driveside bearing is adjusted "tighter", the hubshell shifts ever so slightly toward the freehub body. So the aged bearings supporting the hubshell may be causing interference between the hub shell and the freehub body or cassette.
Especially as this wheel has a history of rough bearings, I would check for a worn driveside axle bearing first, before condemning the compatibility.

It might be worth checking the drive-side axle bearing, but I suspect that this can only account for a small fraction of a millimeter of offset.

In case of cassette/hubshell overall, there might be another solution: Some aftermarket cassettes have a larger diameter step (depression) in the bottom sprocket than Campagnolo's cassettes have, so the offset portion of the sprocket goes around the flange instead of pressing into the flange. I have an IRD 12-32 11spd Campagnolo campatible cassette, which I just tried fitting onto my '98 Shamal wheel. After tightening down the lockring, the casette/freehub spun freely on the hub. So my Shamal isn't incompatible with all 11spd cassettes, just with Campagnolo's 11spd cassettes.

[oldpotatoe]

I think the cogset is hitting the spokes, hub body. Not uncommon with these older, HPW(?) hubs.
OP says the bearings fell 'ok' so tightening the cogset wouldn't 'lock up the wheel'.
Maybe a 1mm spacer on first would work.

Mark M got it..IMHO. Put the cogset on, tighten and peer behind the cogset, bet it's hitting the spokes.

Ain't great but using 10 of 11 cogs would work also..Take one out, probably a thin spacer on first...cogset on.

[ravdg316]

Thanks for the responses. One thing to clarify — I rode these wheels on 11 speed without the rear locking up for 100-200 miles. If the hubs were incompatible with 11 speed, wouldn’t the free hub jamming issue have been apparent immediately upon install?

This isn’t the exact wheel, but the generation of shamal I have is pictured below.