Dinotte - are they still in biz or temp. closed re: COVID?

[54ny77]

Anyone have insight as to what's going on with their operations? Meaning, maybe closed down temporarily re: COVID? And hopefully not out of biz?

I ordered something a month and a half ago, my credit card was charged, but haven't received yet. I've sent follow up emails, phone messages, etc. No return communication.

Am plenty patient for anything I order online, but this is getting a little silly.

Not worth disputing (yet) with credit card company, as I assume it'll work out eventually.

If you have specific insight, it'd be appreciated.

[oldfatslow]

I have no insight except to say I don't ride anywhere without their rear taillight. It is the brightest, most visibility-enhancing, light out there.

I actually have two cuz I love my wife and don't want her riding without one.

[jdh]

I bought a light from them pre-covid with similar results. Only took a few weeks to get the light though. They never answered any emails while I was waiting for it.
I had questions after I got it and tried emailing several times with no response.
There is a phone number on their FB page that was no help either.

Light is nice enough although pricey, but I wouldn't buy anything else from them.

John

[CNY rider]

I bought a light from them pre-covid with similar results. Only took a few weeks to get the light though. They never answered any emails while I was waiting for it.
I had questions after I got it and tried emailing several times with no response.
There is a phone number on their FB page that was no help either.

Light is nice enough although pricey, but I wouldn't buy anything else from them.

John

Too bad, because I have bought multiple lights from them over the years, and they have had great products with solid customer service.
I hope they can get their mojo back.

[metalheart]

I have been wondering too about their status since I have a light that needs repair, but no response from them after multiple phone calls and messages left and no email response either. In the past they were very responsive and helpful, but now it seems something is amiss...

[54ny77]

Agree. I was actually going to get another one (Quad) after getting this small item fixed. The Quad is unbelievably bright, lasts plenty long (I run it in flashing mode all the time, including daytime). Best investment I made in bike stuff, ever.

Am hoping they're just swamped and will get back to normalcy .

I have no insight except to say I don't ride anywhere without their rear taillight. It is the brightest, most visibility-enhancing, light out there.

I actually have two cuz I love my wife and don't want her riding without one.

[merckxman]

I was just going to order a Quad, will hold up until someone reports what their status is. Thanks.

[54ny77]

honestly, i wouldn't. i ordered on may 13, have 4 emails on record and 3 voice mails simply (and politely) asking for shipment status and then most recently, asking for just the courtesy of a reply would be appreciated. no response. at this point i'd be perfectly fine with a, "got your message, sorry for delay but we're not shipping anything for another 2 months due to [insert reason]." will take something, anything!

if i was able to get someone there on the phone, i'd order another quad if they could guarantee shipment in a reasonable timeframe. it's such a great light.

disputed the charge and got reimbursed, which while fine was def. not my desired outcome. i just wanted the small replcement/repair part and am happy to pay and wait for it if someone at dinotte would just give a simple heads up on what they can/cannot do.

in meantime...anyone own a quad and had the front-facing silicone buttons break? i went the white trash fix route in going with red electrical tape. at least it blends in and covers the micro usb port. the power button gasket is still holding together, thankfully.

:bike:


I was just going to order a Quad, will hold up until someone reports what their status is. Thanks.

[DHallerman]

Really sad. Best tailights we've ever used.

I just went to the Dinotte website, and when I clicked on the "Contact" link, here's what I got: "The requested URL /contact/ was not found on this server."

Where in NH is he? Can anyone close by check?

[54ny77]

You have to go to the "Shop" page and then the contact is on the far right via a drag-down menu:

603 929 0123
sales@dinottelighting.com

Am assuming it's a small company and I hope it's just temporary COVID-related disruption. If so, wouldn't hesitate to buy again if back up & running. Agree the quad has been literally a game changer for me. Run it all the time, including daylight. It has made a difference, many cars come around me which I'll attribute to drivers seeing that crazy blinking bright tail light.


Really sad. Best tailights we've ever used.

I just went to the Dinotte website, and when I clicked on the "Contact" link, here's what I got: "The requested URL /contact/ was not found on this server."

Where in NH is he? Can anyone close by check?

[11.4]

Just spoke with Dinotte. They are still in business and shipping units and spare parts (just ordered a couple spare parts). Their deliveries are a bit slow, they say, because of distribution problems and they are having trouble getting some parts, but for the most part they are doing repairs and are shipping orders. That's the word from a phone call this morning.

And a second on their product design and quality. Love their products. And they have always been superb about responding and caring for customers. I didn't see any difference in the call I just placed.

[Spinner]

Just spoke with Dinotte. They are still in business and shipping units and spare parts (just ordered a couple spare parts). Their deliveries are a bit slow, they say, because of distribution problems and they are having trouble getting some parts, but for the most part they are doing repairs and are shipping orders. That's the word from a phone call this morning.

And a second on their product design and quality. Love their products. And they have always been superb about responding and caring for customers. I didn't see any difference in the call I just placed.

That is good news. I never leave home without my Quad blazing. I’ve also purchased several as gifts.

I have recently been thinking of buying another so that I can run one in the blinking mode and the other as a steady light.

[Monthly Payment]

Is it that much better than a Cygolite Hotshot 150 or Bontrager Flare models? Genuinely curious as I hear many great things about Dinotte.

[SpeedyChix]

Is it that much better than a Cygolite Hotshot 150 or Bontrager Flare models? Genuinely curious as I hear many great things about Dinotte.


I have both a Cygolite Hotshot 150 and the Dinotte. There is NO comparison. Dinotte is worlds brighter. The 150 is an "emergency" light for use when I have to ride home from the mtb trail. It simply isn't as bright. I think the flashing light on the Garmin Varia is brighter than the Cygolite based on seeing a rider from a distance that had the Varia flashing.

[saab2000]

Is it that much better than a Cygolite Hotshot 150 or Bontrager Flare models? Genuinely curious as I hear many great things about Dinotte.

What SpeedyChix said. There's no comparison.

I have an older Dinotte and it is, literally, the only light I've ever used where I had a driver pull up next to me and tell me it was a great light and he appreciated being able to see me. This has happened twice. Never with another brand of light because they're nowhere near as bright.

All this said, they're far too bright for nighttime usage. Even on its dimmest setting it's too much at night, at least for any kind of group.

But in daylight it's clearly visible, and from a long distance.

[Monthly Payment]

What SpeedyChix said. There's no comparison.

I have an older Dinotte and it is, literally, the only light I've ever used where I had a driver pull up next to me and tell me it was a great light and he appreciated being able to see me. This has happened twice. Never with another brand of light because they're nowhere near as bright.

All this said, they're far too bright for nighttime usage. Even on its dimmest setting it's too much at night, at least for any kind of group.

But in daylight it's clearly visible, and from a long distance.

Thanks Saab and Speedy. Helpful to know and think about the Dinotte as a daytime light.

[54ny77]

Well damn it all. Lucky you!

Glad to hear someone's picking up and that they're in biz.

I literally just dialed again after reading your response, which is the second attempt today. No answer.

I've been pleasant in voice mails and emails, no hostility expressed in any communication, so I can't attribute lack of follow up due to the usual vitriol spewed by frustrated consumers.

Oh well. I'm still a very happy user of the product. I've yet to see (in person at least) a brighter tail light than the quad. People ask all the time what it is.

Just spoke with Dinotte. They are still in business and shipping units and spare parts (just ordered a couple spare parts). Their deliveries are a bit slow, they say, because of distribution problems and they are having trouble getting some parts, but for the most part they are doing repairs and are shipping orders. That's the word from a phone call this morning.

And a second on their product design and quality. Love their products. And they have always been superb about responding and caring for customers. I didn't see any difference in the call I just placed.

[fijichf]

The Cygolight Hypershot 350 is relatively new and right up there with the Rotlicht and Dinotte imho, as I’ve owned them all. I also had some issues with the Dinotte buttons, which caused it to be out of commission for a period of time. As I don't ride at night and count on a taillight for daylight use, I sold the light and went with the Cygolight products. Worth a try, especially after reading about this customer service concern.

https://cygolite.com/product/hypershot-350-usb/

[metalheart]

I have been a repeat Dinotte customer for multiple products, but the lack of response --- I tired again yesterday -- means I just have to move on, I need a daytime tail light that increases my chances of being seen. How is the mounting for the Hypershot 350?

[donevwil]

Curious if anyone has purchased from (and received) or been in contact with Dinotte in the last few months.

As with others I love my quad and want to buy another, but four threads during 2020 mention only MIA business practices.

[gmike]

Yes, I just bought some small parts from them a few days ago. My order was shipped the same day that it was placed, and received promptly.

[steamer]

About a month ago I sent in an old light to be repaired. They fixed it and sent it back out the day they received it, which I thought was amazing.

Whatever it was that produced the slow response time this past summer seems to be resolved now.

[steamer]

I have both a Cygolite Hotshot 150 and the Dinotte. There is NO comparison. Dinotte is worlds brighter. The 150 is an "emergency" light for use when I have to ride home from the mtb trail. It simply isn't as bright. I think the flashing light on the Garmin Varia is brighter than the Cygolite based on seeing a rider from a distance that had the Varia flashing.

The Cygolite Hypershot 350 is very similar in light intensity to the Dinotte 400R - regular version (no longer sold) when looking at it straight on, but once you go off axis a little, the Cygolite loses a lot of intensity, but the Dinotte stays bright.

I have been happy with my 400R. I have used it for about 7 years now and the first time I had a problem, Dinotte fixed it quickly and for cheap.

I like the form factor of a light with an integrated battery (and that's what the Dinotte Quad is for), but the 400R has been very solid.

[donevwil]

Thank you gmike and steamer, appears things are at least somewhat back to normal. I'll place my order.

[54ny77]

Thanks for the update to my old thread!

I've been making due with electrical tape fix for the silicon port cover. It works.

I'm going to contact them again on small parts availability and hopefully place an order for that and maybe also another light. Would be glad to do the latter if they're up and running.

[Andy sti]

Perfect timing. I was just going to look up this thread as I need a new light and I really want the XML-3.

[donevwil]

It's worth checking out Ebay, Dinotte sells refurbished lights and accessories there. Just got a quad rear for $99.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

[54ny77]

Update (if not comically appreciative of their follow up): ordered items in May 2020.

Just got email today, November 2021, that my order was canceled.

At least they're on it!

:p

[SpeedyChix]

That's nearly comical.

New updates to lights with USB-C charging ports, ordered and shipped w/in a week. They are/were running a black Friday sale. IDK if someone else is running the biz now but they are very active on FB now. All good news for current and future.

[Clean39T]

I found the info on the Dinotte site a bit confusing as to how long the new Quad rear light actually works at different intensities and went with a Lupine Rotlicht Max instead, with a saddle mount. Will see if that turns out to be a good decision or not. I'll continue to roll the Bontrager Ions F/R on my racer, the bigger F/R lights (Outbound F, Rotlicht R) are for the winter trainer/gravel'r.

[AngryScientist]

I found the info on the Dinotte site a bit confusing as to how long the new Quad rear light actually works at different intensities and went with a Lupine Rotlicht Max instead, with a saddle mount. Will see if that turns out to be a good decision or not. I'll continue to roll the Bontrager Ions F/R on my racer, the bigger F/R lights (Outbound F, Rotlicht R) are for the winter trainer/gravel'r.

did you catch a deal on that lupine anywhere? i'm in the market for a new bright light.

[Clean39T]

did you catch a deal on that lupine anywhere? i'm in the market for a new bright light.


BikeInn - hoping it actually arrives.. :eek:

[merlincustom1]

did you catch a deal on that lupine anywhere? i'm in the market for a new bright light.
Check www.outboundlighting.com. Best light I’ve owned.

[Clean39T]

Check www.outboundlighting.com. Best light I’ve owned.


That’s what I got for my front..

[SpeedyChix]

I found the info on the Dinotte site a bit confusing as to how long the new Quad rear light actually works at different intensities and went with a Lupine Rotlicht Max instead, with a saddle mount. Will see if that turns out to be a good decision or not. I'll continue to roll the Bontrager Ions F/R on my racer, the bigger F/R lights (Outbound F, Rotlicht R) are for the winter trainer/gravel'r.

Good pairings.

I'm hoping that Outbound Lighting does a rear light for daytime in the next year. I've mentioned it and also on some surveys it's a high ask item.

[54ny77]

Has anyone recently used Dinotte to buy a light or anything else? How was the timing/shipping?

I've sorta looked around for a new rear light for another bike (since I switch my Dinotte across bikes regularly), but keep getting lazy about doing extensive research. The Dinotte is so good, and so darned bright, I wonder if anything like it (USB charge, portable, built-in battery) is meaningfully better.

So...I'd like to order a new Quad, but given my past experience with Dinotte during Covid, am hesitant. Would like to be optimistic and support an onshore biz.

Positive stories welcome please. Give me some hope! :cool:

[moobikes]

Yes, Dinotte are very much still in business.

I just traded in my very old Quad Red for the latest one. They shipped the new light in just a day. The new Quads are even better than the old ones. VERY bright, great run times. And battery life is very stable over many many charge/ discharge cycles. Great lights.

[Tim Porter]

I got this email from them yesterday. No commercial relationship--I must just be on their mailing list.

Dear Tim

We kick off the 2022 / 2023 season with some exciting news.

Customers have been asking for an 8 cell battery for years and we finally made one.
https://store.dinottelighting.com/new-8-cell-battery-p31.aspx

To help contain costs, we have configured the Xe3 to delete the things you don’t want or need. For example, If you already have a Dinotte Lighting battery charger made in 2009 or later, delete it from your purchase.
https://store.dinottelighting.com/dinotte-xe3-headlight-2500-lumens-formerly-xml-3-p174.aspx

Trade-in pricing for Xe3 is also available.
https://store.dinottelighting.com/trade-in-xml-3-headlight-for-new--xe3-headlight-2500-lumens-p234.aspx

The Xe8 with 8 cell battery is great whether you want high preformance or long run times. You can have more than 4,000 lumens for 3 hours or 24 hours of 1000 lumens output.
https://store.dinottelighting.com/2022-xe8-with-8-cell-battery-p114.aspx

2022 and beyond Quad lights use a USB-C connector. Trade in your old light or simply upgrade the electronics.
https://store.dinottelighting.com/new-2022-quad-red-taillight-with-built-in-battery-p111.aspx

Old quad lights can be traded in for new ones: Owning the best taillight in the industry affords you the best price when you need to get a new one.
https://store.dinottelighting.com/trade-in-existing-dinotte-light-for-2022-quad-red-taillight-p201.aspx

GoPro mounts for headlights and tail lights are here. We also have new taillight mounts for D shaped tubes, a universal Aeropost mount, a round tube O-ring mount and a drop mount that keeps the taillight away from the seat for shorter seat posts. Check out the new mounts here:
https://store.dinottelighting.com/headlight-and-taillight-mounts-c17.aspx


DiNotte Lighting USA
1 Merrill Industrial Drive, Suite 10
Hampton, NH 03842
http://www.dinottelighting.com
603 929 0123
Sales@dinottelighting.com

[SpeedyChix]

Ordered some different mounts earlier this year and they came no issues. They have been more active on social and email as well. Possibly someone has come on to help? The newer Quads are USB C and are awesome.

[roguedog]

You guys are inspiring me to trade in my old Quads for the new ones.

Have also been noodling on the outbound light for the front and swapping out my L&M 1000. It doesn't seem as easily swappable between bikes. Am I right?

Reluctantly thinking about the upcoming dark, cold months ahead.

[fourflys]

A couple of observations and a question..

1. wow, they need some website help.. kind of clunky and hard to find info like lumens on the quad taillight.. although the specs tab was blocked on my work comp.. I wonder what light they were comparing to in the very quick video?

2. the brand certainly has a following

A Question-
Are these lights that much better than other, current, cheaper lights? I recently bought a NiteRider Omega 330 after using Bike Planet Superflashes for years.. wow, what a difference! Is the Dinotte really $135 better? I can tell you the NiteRider is SO much brighter than the first gen Varia radar light I have! For ref, here is the Omega 330 I'm talking about: https://www.niterider.com/collections/cycling/products/omega-330-bike-taillight-for-optimal-viz

[54ny77]

I got same and it reminded me of this old thread. ;)

Fourflys, I've had a few other rear lights including a battery powered L&M and an Exposure, the Quad is just leaps and bounds better. Mine is about a decade old, and it was stupid expensive at the time which I thought was nuts. Best thing I ever bought for my bike. Maybe it's the internal reflectors, bulbs, plastic design, or whatever. It's insanely bright. I use it all the time during daylight other than when on a trail out of courtesy, in the most obnoxious blinking setting (a rapid flashing sequence).

Have had plenty of riders ask what it is, and I can tell when I have it on vs. off where the former I hear and see more cars giving me some room when passing.

That's my $0.02 on the quad.

I got this email from them yesterday. No commercial relationship--I must just be on their mailing list.

[CNY rider]

A couple of observations and a question..

1. wow, they need some website help.. kind of clunky and hard to find info like lumens on the quad taillight.. although the specs tab was blocked on my work comp.. I wonder what light they were comparing to in the very quick video?

2. the brand certainly has a following

A Question-
Are these lights that much better than other, current, cheaper lights? I recently bought a NiteRider Omega 330 after using Bike Planet Superflashes for years.. wow, what a difference! Is the Dinotte really $135 better? I can tell you the NiteRider is SO much brighter than the first gen Varia radar light I have! For ref, here is the Omega 330 I'm talking about: https://www.niterider.com/collections/cycling/products/omega-330-bike-taillight-for-optimal-viz

The cheaper lights keep getting better and better but none of them have reached the level of DiNotte.

[11.4]

It's not just about lumens or watts or candlepower. It's what you do with it. I'm not sure they have the hottest optical engineers around, but they certainly have a product that looks like it.

And I may not be entirely fair to Dinotte, but it's the red tail light, the Quad, that is what has really made their name. I've tried it next to a Blaze, all kinds of specialty taillights, Lupines, and so on, and the Dinotte has them all beat. Wide range of visibility, high intensity, long battery life, reliable waterproofness, easily accessible replacement parts (ever need to replace a silicone charger cover ($5) or a rear stainless bracket for mounting to the fixture on the frame ($7.50) or need a weird clamp with a weird diameter or a 90 degree rotation of the clamp so you can fit it where others might not think to ($2 to $6)? Need a new battery? I even had one mounted on a seat stay and ground it on a curb in a slow motion fall; they replaced the case and didn't even charge me for that one.

The Quad is a powerhouse. Now I really love Exposure headlamps but you'll have to pry my Dinotte Quad out of my cold dead hand.

[fourflys]

It's not just about lumens or watts or candlepower. It's what you do with it. I'm not sure they have the hottest optical engineers around, but they certainly have a product that looks like it.

And I may not be entirely fair to Dinotte, but it's the red tail light, the Quad, that is what has really made their name. I've tried it next to a Blaze, all kinds of specialty taillights, Lupines, and so on, and the Dinotte has them all beat. Wide range of visibility, high intensity, long battery life, reliable waterproofness, easily accessible replacement parts (ever need to replace a silicone charger cover ($5) or a rear stainless bracket for mounting to the fixture on the frame ($7.50) or need a weird clamp with a weird diameter or a 90 degree rotation of the clamp so you can fit it where others might not think to ($2 to $6)? Need a new battery? I even had one mounted on a seat stay and ground it on a curb in a slow motion fall; they replaced the case and didn't even charge me for that one.

The Quad is a powerhouse. Now I really love Exposure headlamps but you'll have to pry my Dinotte Quad out of my cold dead hand.

that's some pretty solid praise, thanks! Might have to talk the wife into one for Christmas.. ;)

[11.4]

that's some pretty solid praise, thanks! Might have to talk the wife into one for Christmas.. ;)

To expound on my brief Dinotte Quad review a couple posts up:

1. There's a point where light intensity is counterproductive. It either irritates drivers who then want to drive up close to irritate you in turn, or it literally blinds them, and at night in particular a single extremely harsh light source doesn't give much of a sense of distance or even angle.

2. The light distribution you want on a tail light needs to be fairly broad but not fade rapidly into the periphery. When that happens, if you turn your bike or even if you're bucking up a hill out of the saddle, it can make the light partially disappear or dim and a driver then things you've made a turn or whatever.

3. You need fairly even and broad distribution of the light so it's seen from a range of angles. That car that may hit you can just as easily be pulling onto the road right behind you and looking at you from a pretty broad angle.

4. You need to get someone's attention. There's a point to having orange lights and other colors rather than red (green is the best single light color for a high intensity light in daylight, which is why search and rescue laser beacons are made in a strong fluorescent lime green and a lot of safety equipment has gone in that direction). But on the road, the tradition says red. It isn't the best color and at night can be even worse. Just sayin'. We aren't helping ourselves with the colors the government asks us to use.

5. Notwithstanding #4, if you really want to be paranoid (or if you ride in NYC, which is the same thing), get two different tail lights from different manufacturers and mount both. Pick ones that can strobe at slightly different intervals from each other, so you have an unpredictable, syncopated kind of strobing pattern. And if the colors are warmer and cooler red tones, just fine too. Two smaller less powerful tail lights can be much more noticeable and helpful than one big one because you can make two of them much more distinguishing.

6. There are some new front headlamp designs that design the diode arrays so they have a very pronounced flat cutoff above which no light is released. That keeps your headlamps out of peoples' eyes and focuses your light on the road surface where you (at least theoretically) need it most. It's not a perfect model, however, because it can make the light invisible to a semi driver, you can't see what's not illuminated and that can include things like overhangs into the street, and that front light serves not only the purpose of letting you see in front of you but also alerts drivers in front of you. Plus, that cutoff design creates odd blank effects on roads with dips and curves -- I've ridden right up to a speed bump or a vehicle barrier without seeing it, and on undulating roads you can be pointed down and miss something as obvious as a gravel washout because the headlamp is pointed below where the hazard is. Having used a couple of them, they have advantages but must be used cautiously.

As always the best light is the one you have with you on your bike. Further, the best light is the one that you have charged or replaced the batteries on. At least eighty percent of the nearly invisible riders I see have let their batteries run out and they somehow think they have the same visibility. Go figure.

[saab2000]

The only time I have ever had drivers actually compliment my visibility was when I was using a Dinotte taillight. Happened twice.

But as noted, they’re best at daytime visibility. Nighttime visibility is a whole ‘nuther ballgame and the blindingly bright Dinotte or any strobing light is annoying as hell to drivers and likely won’t be helpful. The best I can think of is the Light & Motion pulsing light. Far less annoying.

[Hakkalugi]

It's not just about lumens or watts or candlepower. It's what you do with it.

This. Bike light manufacturers love to publish their raw lumens, but in the fine print you find that those lumens are only available for a few minutes before the battery dies. You’ll never find a center beam candlepower value or other important photometric data. Watts don’t matter, culturally we just sort of think we know how bright a 100w screw-in bulb is (we don’t).

Think of the lumen number like this: I have a gallon of water. How deep is it? Clearly we need more information, is it in a bud vase or trough?

The distribution of the light is what is critical to know, as well as the intent of the use. Tail lights and daytime front lights need to be bright on their surfaces so they can be seen from a distance, the same as a brake light or traffic signal. Blinking, especially in irregular patterns, helps these stand out in a driver’s field of vision.

Super bright lights for use at night are different, their job is to throw light in front of you, so here knowing the beam shape is important (how deep is that gallon?). Is it wide and smooth? Hot spot? Mixing a bar-mounted wide light with helmet-mounted spot will help you gain surface definition and avoid rocks and potholes. Keep in mind these lights are intended to help you see, not necessarily be seen.

In architectural lighting, we use the term “layers” to mean multiple light sources in a space. These give depth, interest, and guide the eye. Think in terms of this when selecting lights for your bike: a DRL layer vs vision layers, and how you put those together to suit your needs. Road.cc has a pretty good comparison page made of photos, use this and whenever possible try to get your hands on lights to see them before you buy.

This may be a bit of a thread derailment, but since we’re discussing lights and giving it thought as they days shorten, there are fundamental concepts that are important to consider. Brightest may not necessarily be the best, it’s all about optics and application.

[dolface]

This, and 11.4's posts above are really excellent, thank you both!

This. Bike light manufacturers love to publish their raw lumens, but in the fine print you find that those lumens are only available for a few minutes before the battery dies. You’ll never find a center beam candlepower value or other important photometric data. Watts don’t matter, culturally we just sort of think we know how bright a 100w screw-in bulb is (we don’t).

Think of the lumen number like this: I have a gallon of water. How deep is it? Clearly we need more information, is it in a bud vase or trough?

The distribution of the light is what is critical to know, as well as the intent of the use. Tail lights and daytime front lights need to be bright on their surfaces so they can be seen from a distance, the same as a brake light or traffic signal. Blinking, especially in irregular patterns, helps these stand out in a driver’s field of vision.

Super bright lights for use at night are different, their job is to throw light in front of you, so here knowing the beam shape is important (how deep is that gallon?). Is it wide and smooth? Hot spot? Mixing a bar-mounted wide light with helmet-mounted spot will help you gain surface definition and avoid rocks and potholes. Keep in mind these lights are intended to help you see, not necessarily be seen.

In architectural lighting, we use the term “layers” to mean multiple light sources in a space. These give depth, interest, and guide the eye. Think in terms of this when selecting lights for your bike: a DRL layer vs vision layers, and how you put those together to suit your needs. Road.cc has a pretty good comparison page made of photos, use this and whenever possible try to get your hands on lights to see them before you buy.

This may be a bit of a thread derailment, but since we’re discussing lights and giving it thought as they days shorten, there are fundamental concepts that are important to consider. Brightest may not necessarily be the best, it’s all about optics and application.

[Ozz]

This. Bike light manufacturers love to publish their raw lumens, but in the fine print you find that those lumens are only available for a few minutes before the battery dies. You’ll never find a center beam candlepower value or other important photometric data. Watts don’t matter, culturally we just sort of think we know how bright a 100w screw-in bulb is (we don’t).

Think of the lumen number like this: I have a gallon of water. How deep is it? Clearly we need more information, is it in a bud vase or trough?

The distribution of the light is what is critical to know, as well as the intent of the use. Tail lights and daytime front lights need to be bright on their surfaces so they can be seen from a distance, the same as a brake light or traffic signal. Blinking, especially in irregular patterns, helps these stand out in a driver’s field of vision.

Super bright lights for use at night are different, their job is to throw light in front of you, so here knowing the beam shape is important (how deep is that gallon?). Is it wide and smooth? Hot spot? Mixing a bar-mounted wide light with helmet-mounted spot will help you gain surface definition and avoid rocks and potholes. Keep in mind these lights are intended to help you see, not necessarily be seen.

In architectural lighting, we use the term “layers” to mean multiple light sources in a space. These give depth, interest, and guide the eye. Think in terms of this when selecting lights for your bike: a DRL layer vs vision layers, and how you put those together to suit your needs. Road.cc has a pretty good comparison page made of photos, use this and whenever possible try to get your hands on lights to see them before you buy.

This may be a bit of a thread derailment, but since we’re discussing lights and giving it thought as they days shorten, there are fundamental concepts that are important to consider. Brightest may not necessarily be the best, it’s all about optics and application.
Busch & Muller uses "lux" rather than "lumen" for rating their lights....seems to be a measure of illumination of a surface.....rather than saying a light is really bright, it says this is how well it lights an area.

At least that is how I read it......

[fourflys]

All good stuff, thanks!

[Hakkalugi]

Busch & Muller uses "lux" rather than "lumen" for rating their lights....seems to be a measure of illumination of a surface..


Lux is candela per square meter, foot candles are candela per square foot. Both fall off per the square of the distance (inverse square law) so a published Lux value doesn’t mean anything unless you know the distance from the light source and if the measurement was taken at 90 degrees to the surface. A cosine correction for the angle of incidence should be applied to any non-nadir measurement as well.

Of course, a bike light will never be used in that application, so the number is actually more suspect than lumens.

Plus, let’s keep in mind our eyes don’t see incident light, we see reflected light. You can experiment with this by sitting at your kitchen by putting a dark piece of material on the counter and then replace it with a piece of white paper. The incident light doesn’t change, but you will see the white paper as being much brighter. The upshot is that the numbers published by all the bike light manufacturers are bulli*****.

[steamer]

Lux is candela per square meter, foot candles are candela per square foot. Both fall off per the square of the distance (inverse square law) so a published Lux value doesn’t mean anything unless you know the distance from the light source and if the measurement was taken at 90 degrees to the surface. A cosine correction for the angle of incidence should be applied to any non-nadir measurement as well.

Of course, a bike light will never be used in that application, so the number is actually more suspect than lumens.

Plus, let’s keep in mind our eyes don’t see incident light, we see reflected light. You can experiment with this by sitting at your kitchen by putting a dark piece of material on the counter and then replace it with a piece of white paper. The incident light doesn’t change, but you will see the white paper as being much brighter. The upshot is that the numbers published by all the bike light manufacturers are bulli*****.

The lux ratings used by BM and other German light makers are all based in the test method prescribed by the German STVzO regulations. They are useful in relation to each other. I have owned 4 different lights rated as such and the numbers do jive quite well with how they work on the road, at least in terms of straight ahead vision.