Look 585

[RiderR]

Looking for some more wisdom from you all...

What made the 585 so special, and is it still worth looking out for? What's a reasonable price for a frame in good shape?

How does it compare with, say, a C40/C50? Or a KG381/481?

What was the difference between the Origin and Ultra? (Optimum is off the list).

Thanks!

[wallymann]

i put these all in the same category -- basically the pinnacle of "classic" lugged CF construction from the mid naughts, including in no particular order:

look 585/595
time VXS/VXRS
cervelo R2.5
fondriest TF1
colnago C40/C50


http://majortaylorcycling.org/events/2010_tosrv/P5080681.JPG

[weisan]

Exceptional comfort yet lively and responsive.

http://alicehui.com/bike/LOOK/585.jpg

[saab2000]

The Look 585 series was the successor to the 381/481. The 481 replaced the 381 but they were nearly identical. This series came in about 14 different sizes, each one slightly optimized in its geometry.

The 585 had larger tubes, carbon lugs and used a standard sized seatpost, in contrast to the 481, which used a non-standard seatpost and aluminum lugs and dropouts. The 585 has much more carbon. It was also made in fewer sizes, either five or six instead of fourteen. Of great appeal to many people is the fact that Looks of this era use normal, threaded bottom brackets. Use your Shimano or Campagnolo or Sram with confidence. They are not proprietary.

I owned a 381 and really enjoyed it for several years but then graduated to a 585, which I felt never fit quite right. I own several today and feel the same way but they're within the margin of error and work just fine.

It's not clear to me why they have a nice ride quality but they are pretty good at muting and damping a coarse road surface. They're not overly stiff but are stiff enough for most riders most of the time

Things to watch out for, in my experience, are peeling clear coat and especially mismatched headset parts. I've seen this and getting the right washers and races is nearly impossible if the previous owner attempted to "Upgrade" their headset. Don't even try. They accept a standard bearing AFAIK but the races are critical.

The Origin and Ultra are identical AFAIK except the Ultra uses a different carbon layup and possibly an extra layer in places and is advertised as being 15% stiffer. This seems plausible as I've had both but I also think it may result in less damping of the ride quality. Again, it's splitting hairs and it can't be measured. I like the Ultra for the mental game that it's stiffer and also for the aesthetic of the black carbon.

They show up on eBay with regularity and the prices are reasonable. I would pay $800 for a real NOS version with fork and headset and up to $500 for one in excellent condition. But no more than this.

I also own a Giant TCR Advanced SL and the Looks get ridden more than the nominally "higher performance" Giant.

They're not super stiff but they're not noodles either if you're not a World Tour sprinter. They're fine road bikes if they fit your body shape and riding style. They are race bikes, not gravel bikes. I can fit 25mm tires on wide rims on mine but that doesn't leave much clearance. Mostly I use 23s on wide rims.

Hopefully this sheds some light on Look 585s. I think they were last produced about a decade ago, so honestly, they're no longer remotely current. But they are as good today as when they were produced and that was pretty good. Since I'm stuck in the past I'm OK with how they ride for my current mileage and riding style.

Here are the two in my fleet I ride the most. The white one lives in Minneapolis and gets ridden when i'm in town there. The black one lives with me in Chicago and gets the most mileage of all my bikes these days. Both are photographed at beer stops, which is how I enjoy my rides these days!

Look 585 Origin (repainted)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48829715713_3a60a49fec_c.jpg

Look 585 Ultra

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48679618433_9038b20ff3_c.jpg

[RiderR]

Great, thank you, really interesting and helpful.

Both your 585s look great. What size are they? The ones I've been looking at seem semi-compact geometry with a slight slope to the top tube, yours have a classic horizontal tt look to them. Any idea what's going on there?

[saab2000]

Great, thank you, really interesting and helpful.

Both your 585s look great. What size are they? The ones I've been looking at seem semi-compact geometry with a slight slope to the top tube, yours have a classic horizontal tt look to them. Any idea what's going on there?

Mine are the XL. These, along with the XXL, had a level top tube. All others have some slope.

Also , I have replaced the bearing top cover with a shorter one than the original as I prefer a shorter head tube.

[RiderR]

Ah, got it. Thanks again. Have just looked on geometrygeeks and I see what you mean about sizing - seems I'm right between L and XL.

[saab2000]

Ah, got it. Thanks again. Have just looked on geometrygeeks and I see what you mean about sizing - seems I'm right between L and XL.

For reference I am 6’00” tall and relatively flexible. I once had an L and while it worked it never quite felt right so I went with the XL.

[RiderR]

Also - is the KG461 in the same league as 585, C40, etc? The aim is a nice riding classic (lugged carbon or possibly steel) for recovery/cafe rides, capable of a bit of spirited fun if called for.

[saab2000]

Also - is the KG461 in the same league as 585, C40, etc? The aim is a nice riding classic (lugged carbon or possibly steel) for recovery/cafe rides, capable of a bit of spirited fun if called for.

I don’t know anything about other Looks. After the 585 they started to move away from their roots of lugged carbon and I lost interest.

I’d definitely be interested in a Colnago C50 or EP or EPS. They are significantly more expensive on the used market and I know little about them. But they were used extensively in the highest levels of pro racing and Colnago is a legendary brand where Look is definitely smaller and more niche.

[paredown]

Ah, got it. Thanks again. Have just looked on geometrygeeks and I see what you mean about sizing - seems I'm right between L and XL.

This is what I thought--I would typically ride a 57sq in a conventional frame, maybe a little smaller (Colnago with a 56.5), and decided on the Large.

I would not want it bigger. I'm using a slight setback Zipp post, and a 120 stem, and am currently thinking of going a little shorter on the stem. I find it hard to describe the ride--it is the first all carbon bike that I hve owned, so I have nothing that I can compare it to--but what it seems to me to offer is a very nice combination of dampening with enough road feel coming through that it does not feel dead, nice neutral turn in and responsiveness. I never thought stiffness was the one variable that trumped all others--so if other people like more stiffness, I'm not sure why. Two provisos--I am running a non-Look fork, and I am no longer the skinny guy I used to be--currently @ about 185lbs. For wheels I run Zonda G3s (narrow ones) with Vittoria Corsa 25s which are a pretty tight fit.

Regarding the headsets, you need two critical pieces--there is an inner metal 'thrust' washer that the whole mechanism rides on, and these are hard to acquire if missing (I did get some from Look USA, but it was a struggle--there is no part number)--and other headsets from different makers that used this same first-gen tech for angular bearing headsets have disappeared as well. The second thing needed (easier to come by) were microwashers for spacing the headset to prevent binding, since there are slight differences from frame to frame. The Look instructions are pretty clear on how to do this. If it gets to this level of detail, PM me and I can provide the Look install instructions.

The other minor PITA are the small plastic cable guides on the head tube--they tend to break off. I found them on Amazon UK when I looked--but last time I checked they seemed to have dried up. You do see them on eBay from time to time.

[RiderR]

This is what I thought--I would typically ride a 57sq in a conventional frame, maybe a little smaller (Colnago with a 56.5), and decided on the Large.

I would not want it bigger. I'm using a slight setback Zipp post, and a 120 stem, and am currently thinking of going a little shorter on the stem.

Interesting. Do you mean a Colnago "58" (which from memory has 56.5 tt)?

[robt57]

Rather than be redundant, besides I agree with everything above aready noted.

I am 6'1/2" [used to be taller], and ride a standard 585 XL, Origin seems to what the non Ultra is referred to.

Also have no interest when Look went monocoque instead of the round tubes/lugs.

The ride/glide is the magic of these IMO. I am 200lb and while stiff enough, it is most like CV tech Bianchi frame use in the absorption of road buzz. Best in class in this dept these two in my experience regarding buzz kill ability.

To me it feels a lot like some early Ti I rode, but does not suffer from not being stiff enough as was my experience with most 90s Ti that was not an Ultimate or Vortex etc. Yet not near as stiff as those either. But does not demand you be in race mode every inch either.

It is the one bike I have I don't find needs 28s, not sure they would fit anyway. I could ride it with Tubeless 23 honestly. It is wearing my last set of 25mm Vitt Paves and I did not even bother putting latex tube in it. It feels like they are already there.

Geometry for the XL I have is road race and perfectly stable, neutral, quick responding and very very comfortable. I am between, but closer to the XL than XXL but could ride either. I would not be able to get the bars low enough easily on an XXL as much as I'd like 1CM more TT. [12mm to be exact]

A member here just got an Origin off eBay without any headset parts. Managed to get all what he needed to remedy, but was not cheap. Two things as a take away there, available and not cheap.

IMO 585s are something special, I covet and revere mine due to it feel and response for a dated frameset. I'd have grabbed a C50 but this showed up first.

Got mine striped for a repaint and sat in a box for 5-6 years and made available.

I just spray it with 303 protectant after cleaning and slapped some vinyl LOOK letter on the DT. It is about rolling on this.

They are as light as about anything as well, sans ultra lite-weight weenie stuff.

http://coupekiss.host-ed.me//images/pics/Look585-InitialBuildRide.jpg

[FlashUNC]

Looking for some more wisdom from you all...

What made the 585 so special, and is it still worth looking out for? What's a reasonable price for a frame in good shape?

How does it compare with, say, a C40/C50? Or a KG381/481?

What was the difference between the Origin and Ultra? (Optimum is off the list).

Thanks!

I would also keep an eye out for a Time VXR.

[dave thompson]

I would also keep an eye out for a Time VXR.

I'll agree with that. I've had 2 Look 585 and a Time VXR and they are remarkably similar in feel and temperament.

It's really hard to pin down what makes these bikes so 'special', they just have qualities that tick a lot of boxes.

[robt57]

I had a Addict LTD for 6 seasons, Like a 585 with a touch more stiffness equally everywhere. Didn't absorb buzz quite as well.

But if we are talking Time frames, I put in a vote for an Addict HMX variant. A friend has it now, and it is on my miss it list still.

The Addict HMXs are also like the 585, very light, if that checks a box. My 61 with 7800 I tossed on when I first got it was 13.8lb with carbon tubulars. Good Di2 candidates as you start so light to start with, ;)

[flying]

I had the 381i Kelme in 2002-2004 & later the 585 from 2005 on till 2012

Both were exceptional riding & really wish I had kept them

Carbon tubes with carbon lugs is as good as carbon ever got IMHO
Lively & comfortable + plenty stiff enough
After that anything carbon monocoque felt really odd. Stiff but dead IMO

Every now & then I see one & consider it but they are quite old now at 15+ years so it would have to be a very good example
of one that was cared for or better yet a NOS But I think I will stick to metals these days...Alum,Titanium,Steel ;)

https://i.postimg.cc/NFWjGbLb/2004.jpg (https://postimg.cc/y3yHvmmS)

https://i.postimg.cc/YqYWGmkj/1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/QHNtvCFr)

[paredown]

Interesting. Do you mean a Colnago "58" (which from memory has 56.5 tt)?
Yes--a Colnago '59' CT-1) was what I had--and pre carbon geo put that at about 56.5, which I think matches the newer '58' in frames from the C-50 era and newer.

[m_moses]

I have a 565 that looks very similar to Flying’s 585. I would say that way others have described the ride qualities of their 585s tracks well with my 565 experience.

I’m not sure what differentiates the two models but I presume it was a lesser, heavier grade of carbon used.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[texbike]

https://i.postimg.cc/YqYWGmkj/1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/QHNtvCFr)

Beautiful 585! This is my favorite color combo on them. I'd love to find a mint example of one of these (or the Team white) in a large. I've had a couple of 585s, but they were either less-than-stellar color combos or the wrong size and they ended up being re-homed. I've also had a 595, 381, 481, 271, several C40s/C50s, and now a Time VXS. The 585 really strikes me as the best of the lot. My only complaints are the sloping TT (I'm not really a fan of those...), the strange paint schemes, and the small number of them in the marketplace to choose from. It would be cool if Look would do a reissue of the 585 like Time did with the VXRS a few years ago.

Texbike

[kramnnim]

I rode a 585 for quite a few thousand miles and then switched to a 586, which I thought was an improvement.

Since then, I've been riding more modern monocoque frames like the Supersix Evo HM, R5, S5, Z5, Helium, Foil...and honestly I wouldn't pick the 585 or 586 over any of them.

[saab2000]

I rode a 585 for quite a few thousand miles and then switched to a 586, which I thought was an improvement.

Since then, I've been riding more modern monocoque frames like the Supersix Evo HM, R5, S5, Z5, Helium, Foil...and honestly I wouldn't pick the 585 or 586 over any of them.

I will admit that my personal fascination with them is based on the fact that I liked these lugged composite bikes and lugged aluminum bikes way back into the early 1980s, when we would see Sean Kelly on a Vitus and Robert Millar and Phil Anderson and Duclos-Lassalle on the Peugeot carbon fiber frames. Then Lemond and Hinault in 1986 and from there they became more and more ubiquitous in pro racing. Lemond won the 1989 Tour on a TVT carbon frame and the Looks were derivatives of this technology.

I first rode one in 1989 when I tested a Look KG96 in Madison, WI. It was amazed at the smooth ride and the springy, light and lively feel of the frame. Over the years I always wanted one and when I got my 381 in the fall 2006 I wasn't disappointed even though it was already outdated. I enjoyed it on hard rides for several years and the main reason I moved on was that the seat post clamping mechanism left me nervous.

I still love the aesthetic of the lugged carbon and the level top tube. I'd love to get a Seven SLX622 or whatever they're called these days. They totally re-create that art/science fusion to my eyes.

This is my old 381, which I no longer have. I enjoyed this very much and I enjoy my 585s but I'm also under no illusions that there aren't better bikes. My fascination with them is entirely personal to me.

https://live.staticflickr.com/6014/5964091023_91a16379c8_c.jpg

[RiderR]

Some beautiful bikes in this thread, thanks all for sharing.

[Dino Suegiù]

I had the 381i Kelme in 2002-2004 & later the 585 from 2005 on till 2012

Both were exceptional riding & really wish I had kept them

Carbon tubes with carbon lugs is as good as carbon ever got IMHO
Lively & comfortable + plenty stiff enough
After that anything carbon monocoque felt really odd. Stiff but dead IMO.https://i.postimg.cc/YqYWGmkj/1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/QHNtvCFr)
https://forums.thepaceline.net/images/icons/icon14.gif
That may be the most classic and elegant Look paint scheme ever. I always find it really beautiful.


(That USE Alien seatpost, otoh...lord what a massive pita!)

[Dino Suegiù]

Am I mis-remembering or was there also a well-regarded Cyfac equivalent to the Look 585 and Time VXR, a sort of French "Holy Trinity" of top-shelf lugged carbon?

[Elefantino]

I don't know what's in the carbon fibers, or what's in the geometry, or what's simply in the name. I just know that when I ride the Look -- particularly when compared with modern carbons from Fuji, Look at C'Dale -- the 585 is the one that makes me smile.

Thanks, again, Dave! ;)

[flying]

(That USE Alien seatpost, otoh...lord what a massive pita!)

Hahah yes I agree & changed it to a Token setback & later removed the Token graphics. This pic also shows the weight at 6460 grams with alum clinchers which dropped to 6300 grams even when I ran Campy Hyperons tubulars

https://i.postimg.cc/d0zKVZS6/5-6-06-6460gr.jpg (https://postimg.cc/5HqrPyJQ)

[flying]

Beautiful 585! This is my favorite color combo on them. ....
. The 585 really strikes me as the best of the lot. My only complaints are the sloping TT (I'm not really a fan of those...),

I agree ;)

It was really a beautiful bike & could only be really appreciated in person

It had beautiful subtle curves to fork & rear triangle... really nice ;)

Not super light by today's standards...this medium was 1023 grams. But...
it was beautifully made inside & out. Inside was amazingly smooth & finished

Then of course the ride itself was really nice IMHO.

[robt57]

Funny, before getting in this thread. I was going to give mine some love for my ride today. One of my fav arrows in the 'quiver'.
Wife calls that a garage for some reason...

Quick 30 mile glide, so smooth...

[nachetetm]

Beautiful 585! This is my favorite color combo on them. I'd love to find a mint example of one of these (or the Team white) in a large. I've had a couple of 585s, but they were either less-than-stellar color combos or the wrong size and they ended up being re-homed. I've also had a 595, 381, 481, 271, several C40s/C50s, and now a Time VXS. The 585 really strikes me as the best of the lot. My only complaints are the sloping TT (I'm not really a fan of those...), the strange paint schemes, and the small number of them in the marketplace to choose from. It would be cool if Look would do a reissue of the 585 like Time did with the VXRS a few years ago.

TexbikeI was so close to get one of those a month ago... I got cold feet when I saw the headtube lenght and I thought it was too racy for me, but gosh those are beautiful frames.

[robt57]

I was so close to get one of those a month ago... I got cold feet when I saw the headtube lenght and I thought it was to racy for me, but gosh those are beautiful frames.


IIRC, the Origins have the lower stack

[paredown]

IIRC, the Origins have the lower stack

Yes--IIRC they had the same stack height as the original frames, and then they added the higher stack height (shorter TT and taller HT) "Optimum".

Ultra geo was the same as the Origin/original frames but was 15 percent stiffer with a different carbon weave.

https://road.cc/content/review/19795-look-optimum-585

[nachetetm]

I need an Optimum. Unfortunately, all of them are painted, what a pity.

[Keith A]

I need an Optimum. Unfortunately, all of them are painted, what a pity.If you're a tall guy, there's a nice Optimum on the 'bay now...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Look-585-Optimum-Road-Bike/193444760815?hash=item2d0a34ccef:g:830AAOSwq4Veqya d

[robt57]

Yes--IIRC they had the same stack height as the original frames, and then they added the higher stack height (shorter TT and taller HT) "Optimum".

Rule it right out for me. I got a slammed stem on my XL, and would not mind a little more top tube. Nothing Stem and/or bar reach can't make perfect...

Well really only almost slammed, the headset top part is tall tapered cone. But that looks nice to for the transition to the stem visually.

[DfCas]

If you're a tall guy, there's a nice Optimum on the 'bay now...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Look-585-Optimum-Road-Bike/193444760815?hash=item2d0a34ccef:g:830AAOSwq4Veqya d

Somethings wrong with that listing size specs. My XXL ORIGIN has a 199 headtube and a 58.7 top tube. I suspect they pulled those numbers off the wrong geometry chart if that is an OPTIMUM, instead of measuring the bike.

[dave thompson]

Here’s the geo chart for the Optimum. The pic is of mine, an XXL.

[flying]

And here is a chart for regular 585 ;)

Having them both here might help some looking to buy a used frame

[Hawker]

Great thread, I just stumbled across it.

I have two bikes; a Serotta Fierte iT and '08 LOOK 585. Both 48-49cm and both very light. I generally ride one for three for four days and then switch to the other. However, for the last three weeks I was only on the Serotta as I was doing some upgrades on the LOOK. So, when after three weeks I switched over to the 585 I think I actually smiled for the first few pedal spokes. I could tell immediately that is was lighter, smoother and more responsive. I love them both but I REALLY LOVE the 585. And I always keep my eyes out for another XS Optimum in any color other than black. :)

[d_douglas]

That is a very cool example. My size, I need to come for a visit!!



http://coupekiss.host-ed.me//images/pics/Look585-InitialBuildRide.jpg

[Hawker]

Just in case; There is a grey one listed in San Jose and a red one listed in Orange County....both on CL. I'd be all over both of them if they were my size. Sigh, I hate being short.

[paredown]

If anyone stumbles across a Large in the custom orange color, shoot me PM!

They called it "Tangerine"

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697999378&stc=1&d=1589464078

[Shoeman]

If anyone stumbles across a Large in the custom orange color, shoot me PM!

They called it "Tangerine"

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697999378&stc=1&d=1589464078

I could use a minty XL if you know of one.

[robt57]

I do like that Tangerine...

[weisan]

Am I mis-remembering or was there also a well-regarded Cyfac equivalent to the Look 585 and Time VXR, a sort of French "Holy Trinity" of top-shelf lugged carbon?

Cadence

[tv_vt]

Speaking of the Cyfac Cadence, there's a nice looking medium frame FS on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cyfac-Cadence-Medium-Carbon-Fiber-Frame-Set/183867458411?hash=item2acf5ac36b:g:5X8AAOSwmvBdGkE n:sc:FedExHomeDelivery!05055!US!-1

[Hawker]

If anyone stumbles across a Large in the custom orange color, shoot me PM!

They called it "Tangerine"

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697999378&stc=1&d=1589464078

I've been watching for this in my size for a number of years now. Yep, Tangerine and you don't see many. Lots of people are not fond of it...but I call it "unique". Let me know if you find one in a S or XS. And I'll watch for a Large as well.

[picstloup]

Wonder if someone can tell me what kind of headsets and bottom brackets these Look 585s use, please. Is it a threaded bottom bracket?

Waiting on seller for some info, like the year, but the photos don't look like it has a headset. Small photos. Bottom bracket looks like threads.

I'm looking at an Optimum. Never built up.

Oh, and maybe the seat post diameter? Looks like it doesn't come with headset, seatpost, or bottom bracket.

I've looked at a few reviews, but haven't found any detailed info, yet.

thanks
M

[dave thompson]

My Look 585 Optimum has an English threaded bottom bracket and 27.2 seat post, Looks came from the factory with their own proprietary headset installed.

At a casual glance a Look doesn’t appear to have a ‘conventional headset, theirs is sort of hidden.

Hope this helps.

[saab2000]

Wonder if someone can tell me what kind of headsets and bottom brackets these Look 585s use, please. Is it a threaded bottom bracket?

Waiting on seller for some info, like the year, but the photos don't look like it has a headset. Small photos. Bottom bracket looks like threads.

I'm looking at an Optimum. Never built up.

Oh, and maybe the seat post diameter? Looks like it doesn't come with headset, seatpost, or bottom bracket.

I've looked at a few reviews, but haven't found any detailed info, yet.

thanks
M

No headset = no buy in my world. You need all the pieces to make it work. These frames have removable races and they’re hard to find. With no headset it will be far more trouble than it’s worth IMHO. Can you post pictures?

BB is standard English threaded.

Seatpost is 27.2 mm.

[picstloup]

No headset = no buy in my world. You need all the pieces to make it work. These frames have removable races and they’re hard to find. With no headset it will be far more trouble than it’s worth IMHO. Can you post pictures?

BB is standard English threaded.

Seatpost is 27.2 mm.

It's a bit of a blur, but I was able to blow it up a bit and it seems evident now there is no headset...does come with seat post clamp...

really, would a headset be hard to find for this?...I don't need a headache, that's for sure...

will wait on seller info for the year and who knows, maybe he has a headset?...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50057972318_dc895b5577_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jgscbf)

look.585optimum (1) (https://flic.kr/p/2jgscbf) by Morris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/morristaub/), on Flickr

[saab2000]

It's a bit of a blur, but I was able to blow it up a bit and it seems evident now there is no headset...does come with seat post clamp...

really, would a headset be hard to find for this?...I don't need a headache, that's for sure...

will wait on seller info for the year and who knows, maybe he has a headset?...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50057972318_dc895b5577_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jgscbf)look.585optimum (1) (https://flic.kr/p/2jgscbf) by Morris (https://www.flickr.com/photos/morristaub/), on Flickr

I think it will be hard to find the bearing races. Without all the pieces I wouldn’t buy it. Perhaps someone else has an idea.

[robt57]

No headset = no buy in my world. You need all the pieces to make it work. These frames have removable races and they’re hard to find. With no headset it will be far more trouble than it’s worth IMHO.


Still available as a total kit. Just adjust the price of the frameset down down telling seller 120.00 for solution in headset plug and play is why you are adjusting your offer.

Might could be sourced cheaper, but this is the baseline as far as I am concerned.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QCJVDU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I think anyone that has ridden one can attest extra effort to attain what extra these offer on the road rolling worthwhile. How much 'extra' coin that means is $ubjective to your lu$t for one I gue$$. They run cheaper than the VRX and LTD Addicts for the most part, give you a little room in the wallet perhaps.

[saab2000]

Still available as a total kit. Just adjust the price of the frameset down down telling seller 120.00 for solution in headset plug and play is why you are adjusting your offer.

Might could be sourced cheaper, but this is the baseline as far as I am concerned.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QCJVDU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Never seen that before. But yeah, if that’s available you’re probably good to go.

[picstloup]

Still available as a total kit. Just adjust the price of the frameset down down telling seller 120.00 for solution in headset plug and play is why you are adjusting your offer.

Might could be sourced cheaper, but this is the baseline as far as I am concerned.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QCJVDU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I think anyone that has ridden one can attest extra effort to attain what extra these offer on the road rolling worthwhile. How much 'extra' coin that means is $ubjective to your lu$t for one I gue$$. They run cheaper than the VRX and LTD Addicts for the most part, give you a little room in the wallet perhaps.

that looks like the original Look set up, but at that link, amazon . com it is not available...

[robt57]

Never seen that before. But yeah, if that’s available you’re probably good to go.

I egged a user here one to grab an XXL Origin on eBay when we both started getting direct highly discounted offers from seller. his shipping was high to PNW, And I have an XL already nor need a bigger one. I connected to that sale asking seller a few questions.

But the PL user that got it was 1500 mile closer to shipper. Add the coin for that kit on Amazon [he sent me the link that link clearly belongs in this thread], still reasonable all in cost IMO.

I don't see a point in time I will release my Origin that is stripped to nude sporting 11s Campy.

[robt57]

That looks nice...

Speaking of the Cyfac Cadence, there's a nice looking medium frame FS on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cyfac-Cadence-Medium-Carbon-Fiber-Frame-Set/183867458411?hash=item2acf5ac36b:g:5X8AAOSwmvBdGkE n:sc:FedExHomeDelivery!05055!US!-1

[picstloup]

My Look 585 Optimum has an English threaded bottom bracket and 27.2 seat post, Looks came from the factory with their own proprietary headset installed.

At a casual glance a Look doesn’t appear to have a ‘conventional headset, theirs is sort of hidden.

Hope this helps.

thanks for this info...it does help...and it appears you are right, the look headset might be a problem to source if the frame doesn't come with it...i'm checking with the seller...

[saab2000]

thanks for this info...it does help...and it appears you are right, the look headset might be a problem to source if the frame doesn't come with it...i'm checking with the seller...

I would contact a shop in France which sells Looks or has contact with them. Or being in France maybe you will have success contacting them directly.

[nobuseri]

Need to a bit more specific about the headset. Is it just the headset bearings? Or the metal insets and couple of other bits that sit in the headtube?

If it’s just the bearings, those are widely available.

[DfCas]

If the frame includes the split ring bearing seats you can use an FSA Orbit IS headset which does not include the split rings. My frame did not have the split rings so i bought the Look branded headset off Amazon which does invclude the split rings. It also included a metal crown race which i did not need because my fork has a molded crown race in the carbon. It also included a Look expander plug which did not fit my steerer tube because it has an oval interior shape. I used a Profile Gap Cap which fits from 1 inch up to 1 1/8.

The headset came from Mikes Bike in NB Canada. Took a while but no problem.
There is also a Cane Creek headset which does not include the split ring bearing seats.

[Hawker]

Cadence

Wasn't there a tie-in between Cyfac and Look at one time? These are great looking frames. Are they still making carbon frames at all?

[axel23]

Quite simply. Best. Bike. Ever.

[paredown]

If the frame includes the split ring bearing seats you can use an FSA Orbit IS headset which does not include the split rings. My frame did not have the split rings so i bought the Look branded headset off Amazon which does invclude the split rings. It also included a metal crown race which i did not need because my fork has a molded crown race in the carbon. It also included a Look expander plug which did not fit my steerer tube because it has an oval interior shape. I used a Profile Gap Cap which fits from 1 inch up to 1 1/8.

The headset came from Mikes Bike in NB Canada. Took a while but no problem.
There is also a Cane Creek headset which does not include the split ring bearing seats.
Yes--take a look at this Paceline thread where I was discussing what is needed. I was able to source the split ring/thrust washer directly from Hawley, who took over from Look USA. No retail part number on the washers--I had a local shop who had an account with Hawley order them directly from the Customer Service guy that I spoke with. I ended up paying them $20 at the shop for the hassle. Once I had those, the Orbit headset fit perfectly. At some point, there were headsets sold WITH the thrust washers, but none I could find now--except that Look that was posted--and I was unable to find that when I was looking.:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=225374

My RBR thread where I went through the whole project--Cane Creek number included there:
https://forums.roadbikereview.com/look/need-parts-stripped-look-585-a-355647.html

Park Tools give you a good picture of the install of these headsets--they are not proprietary--just old:
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/headset-standards#article-section-5

Microspacers are available from Jensons.
Next place the tapered spacer tube on top. On the straight 1-1/8" Look steering tubes, this is usually an FSA carbon piece. This is where spacing problems usually seem to occur. Sometimes thin shims are needed on top of the split ring retainer, to raise up the tapered spacer so it doesn't rub against the top of the head tube. It sort of depends upon what tapered spacer is used. Most Look with the original headset seem to have two, three or four of these very thin shims in there. Thin spacers can be bought from Jenson, Tree Fort, Performance, etc.

Headset install instructions are attached--it shows the whole assembly.
Specific feature of the steering assembly
and the frame:
The frame’s head tube internal bearing
assembly contains two removable inner
and outer bearing thrust rings, patented
by LOOK. These rings are installed at
the factory but may be replaced if they
are damaged… This system provides
added protection to the frame’s head tube
assembly.

This is not that proprietary--just first generation integrated. Giant for one used a very similar setup.

Edit to add a picture of mine--first setup with 3T Funda fork:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697945576&stc=1&d=1504554483

And a picture of it closer to dialed in:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697965224&stc=1&d=1534716495https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697965224&stc=1&d=1534716495

[Exonerv]

If anyone stumbles across a Large in the custom orange color, shoot me PM!



They called it "Tangerine"



https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697999378&stc=1&d=1589464078

I ended up with both a Tangerine 585 and a 586.... (".38 / .39 - whatever it takes"). Both are great riding bikes, but I think the 586 is a tad more supple and is closer to my Ti bikes in the way it soaks up road chatter. The 585 is the better climber / descender, but that is likely due to wheels and a slightly more aggressive set-up.

The color pops on the Tangerine [emoji846]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200629/00dd78a6d1555e54ef87ad5bc6d23da0.jpg1698003035

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[sjbraun]

I really miss my 585. Pox on the scumbag who broke into my house and stole it.

PS if anyone needs a copy of the 585 manual for the HSC 5 fork and headset, I have an copy that I could send you.

[robt57]

Will stick this here and in PSAs.

This looks a nice bike/alternative.

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-time-nxr-instinct-black-label/7149871659.html

[ddtn]

Been casually looking for a LOOK 585 Optimum XL for a while. People who have them must love them – I never see them come up for sale.

Can you put 28 tires on them? The sportive geometry + fat tires sound like a dream for long rides.

[robt57]

Been casually looking for a LOOK 585 Optimum XL for a while. People who have them must love them – I never see them come up for sale.

Can you put 28 tires on them? The sportive geometry + fat tires sound like a dream for long rides.

Some 28s yes. Not GranPrix 4K 28s. But I don't have an Optimum, but being they use the same fork, and rear end??


But on my Origin 25s feel like 28s do on my other bikes frankly.

[ddtn]

But on my Origin 25s feel like 28s do on my other bikes frankly.

Oh man now I have to find one just to feel the plush ride.

Other than geometry, did they change anything else on the Optimum? Same stiffness as Origin?

[dave thompson]

Been casually looking for a LOOK 585 Optimum XL for a while. People who have them must love them – I never see them come up for sale.

Can you put 28 tires on them? The sportive geometry + fat tires sound like a dream for long rides.

Just measured my Optimum with HED wheels & 25mm rims, 700c25 Conti GP4000 tire, which measure a true 27.2mm. Enough safe clearances on front fork, seat stay and chain stays but a plump 28 would not fit.

[picstloup]

I think it will be hard to find the bearing races. Without all the pieces I wouldn’t buy it. Perhaps someone else has an idea.

thanks for all the helpful info saab2000...seller contacted me and told me the frame comes with the headset.

I sent him the headset manual pdf to verify that all the pieces listed there come with the headset he has. Waiting to hear back.

Seller also made me aware of the 'shorter' top tube. I was surprised by that. Only 52 on a size M frame. I would have to get a longer stem to help with reach. Not a problem. The stack looks to be fine, over 16 for the head tube, but i'll probably need to use most of the 300mm steerer with spacers. That will have to be figured out over a few rides i guess.

[tanghy]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200630/6998a7adb2d709c623e13036f62fff7b.jpg
14 years and still going strong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Elefantino]

Wow ... perfectly balanced! And a great photo!

[Keith A]

Wow ... perfectly balanced! And a great photo!Agree 100%. BTW, what wheels do you have on there?

[oldpotatoe]

thanks for all the helpful info saab2000...seller contacted me and told me the frame comes with the headset.

I sent him the headset manual pdf to verify that all the pieces listed there come with the headset he has. Waiting to hear back.

Seller also made me aware of the 'shorter' top tube. I was surprised by that. Only 52 on a size M frame. I would have to get a longer stem to help with reach. Not a problem. The stack looks to be fine, over 16 for the head tube, but i'll probably need to use most of the 300mm steerer with spacers. That will have to be figured out over a few rides i guess.

Good find and with reference to some of the LOOK 585 pix:eek:..40mm maxiumum spacers under the stem...Just for info. Start with 40mm, lots of 10mm spacers, and adjust..You can always make the steerer shorter, not longer("Iv'e cut it 3 times and it's still too short!!')...With 5mm on top for clearance, Clarence. :)

[tanghy]

Agree 100%. BTW, what wheels do you have on there?

enve 34s

[tanghy]

Wow ... perfectly balanced! And a great photo!
thx, a friend did a let go and grab while another snapped the shot

[picstloup]

Quite simply. Best. Bike. Ever.

That looks sweet. Questions please. What size frame is it. And what is your axle to top of saddle measure. Thanks.

[picstloup]

Good find and with reference to some of the LOOK 585 pix:eek:..40mm maxiumum spacers under the stem...Just for info. Start with 40mm, lots of 10mm spacers, and adjust..You can always make the steerer shorter, not longer("Iv'e cut it 3 times and it's still too short!!')...With 5mm on top for clearance, Clarence. :)

Fingers crossed the headset is complete. Hope the news is good.

Lucky to find NOS. At least I think so. I like the lugged carbon. Had that on a 2001 colnago c40. And also threaded bottom bracket. Threaded is good, although on the colnago I did have to send the frame back to Italy because the aluminum sleeve started moving a bit.

(Moments come and go where I tell myself, buy a new Look 785 Huez or 765 Optimum. Get a lifetime warranty. More money up front, but some peace of mind. Also, these current Look frames use PF30/Token ninja tf-841 bottom brackets, so threaded if I understand correctly. Or at least less chance of bottom bracket creaking).

And yes, that's a lot of spacerssss...hoping i won't need too much...but comfort is king these days. Maybe an ever so slight rise to the stem I end up with? Gonna try 110, then 120...I'm on 100 now...

Fit will be new. I will try myself. Try and match current bike. Will order a group with crank that matches my current crank length. Match seat height and set back. The front end will be new, exciting.

But won't hesitate to seek help at a shop.

[nachetetm]

I wasn't aware of the tangerine color, and it's absolutely lovely!!

[Hawker]

enve 34s

How did you balance the bike for this photo...or is it a secret?

[Hawker]

I wasn't aware of the tangerine color, and it's absolutely lovely!!

As much as I like the Tangerine, I think they could have done a better job with those gray panels or maybe left them off entirely except for the lettering.

[Keith A]

How did you balance the bike for this photo...or is it a secret?This is what he posted...

thx, a friend did a let go and grab while another snapped the shot

[Hawker]

Originally Posted by Hawker View Post
How did you balance the bike for this photo...or is it a secret?
This is what he posted...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanghy View Post
thx, a friend did a let go and grab while another snapped the shot


Thanks, I missed that.

[Keith A]

Just got this back from my local painter who polished the frame and recreated some of the decals. I personally think this is a great colorway.

[Exonerv]

I kinda like the gray...it matches perfectly with a 6800 group. I've considered moving that group to one of my other bikes many times, but it just looks like it belongs on the 585.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200701/a1203de6ebde912249da95765057e0b0.jpg

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[texbike]

Just got this back from my local painter who polished the frame and recreated some of the decals. I personally think this is a great colorway.

That looks sharp!

Texbike

[Keith A]

That looks sharp!

TexbikeThanks. It's not my size, but for my daughter.

[Elefantino]

Just got this back from my local painter who polished the frame and recreated some of the decals. I personally think this is a great colorway.
Agreed. Looks really, really sharp. Lots of 585 aficionados want that one.

[nobuseri]

Very clean. They did a nice job. Hope your daughter enjoys it!

Just got this back from my local painter who polished the frame and recreated some of the decals. I personally think this is a great colorway.

[paredown]

Just got this back from my local painter who polished the frame and recreated some of the decals. I personally think this is a great colorway.
I like that look (Look?) at lot!:banana:

[RiderR]

I am torn on sizing between an L and XL.

A shade over 6', normally ride a 57.

L would need a longer stem and either spacers or flipping up stem

XL a bit longer in top tube than I'd normally go for so a slightly shorter stem

I'm guessing either could work, are there any 585 peculiarities that would make one or the other a better bet?

[m_moses]

I am torn on sizing between an L and XL.

A shade over 6', normally ride a 57.

L would need a longer stem and either spacers or flipping up stem

XL a bit longer in top tube than I'd normally go for so a slightly shorter stem

I'm guessing either could work, are there any 585 peculiarities that would make one or the other a better bet?


I have a 565 XL and it’s slightly large for me. I’m 5’11” with 32” inseam. I plan to try a 90mm stem to see if that works better.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hawker]

Just got this back from my local painter who polished the frame and recreated some of the decals. I personally think this is a great colorway.

Looks great! 48 or 49cm?

[Dino Suegiù]

I ended up with both a Tangerine 585 and a 586. Both are great riding bikes, but I think the 586 is a tad more supple and is closer to my Ti bikes in the way it soaks up road chatter. The 585 is the better climber / descender, but that is likely due to wheels and a slightly more aggressive set-up.

The color pops on the Tangerine.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/images/icons/icon14.gif

The "Tangerine" color is fantastic imo, really rich, and the grey/silver/white details complement the color very well. Beautiful combination.

[robt57]

Just a thread note:

For those that see the trend every time a Look 585 thread ensues.

I'd say if you are one of those nutty multi quiver bike collectors, these are the daily roller worthy ones. Don't ignore an opportunity to snag.

I'd say if you are one of those nutty multi quiver bike collectors you already know this or have one.

Truly worth ownership.

[Keith A]

Looks great! 48 or 49cm?This is the Elle version in extra small.

[Hawker]

This is the Elle version in extra small.

Sweet, I've been looking for the Team Tibco version in dark blue for about five years...to no avail. Mine is the XS Optimum version, same as the Elle but with a different paint. Which I'm sure you know...anyway your painter did a great job!

[Keith A]

Thanks! He does fantastic work! Good luck in your search, maybe one will turn up some day...or you could always have yours painted to match.

[mhespenheide]

Just a thread note:

For those that see the trend every time a Look 585 thread ensues.

I'd say if you are one of those nutty multi quiver bike collectors, these are the daily roller worthy ones. Don't ignore an opportunity to snag.

I'd say if you are one of those nutty multi quiver bike collectors you already know this or have one.

Truly worth ownership.

Someday I hope than an XXL pops up at a time when I have the room to add N+1.

[Dino Suegiù]

Just got this back from my local painter who polished the frame and recreated some of the decals.
He does fantastic work!

Who is the painter?

[old_fat_and_slow]

I am torn on sizing between an L and XL.

A shade over 6', normally ride a 57.

L would need a longer stem and either spacers or flipping up stem

XL a bit longer in top tube than I'd normally go for so a slightly shorter stem

I'm guessing either could work, are there any 585 peculiarities that would make one or the other a better bet?

I'm 6', and I think 58 is my optimum size. My inseam is 32 inches. I bought a 585 XL and am running a 120 stem. Seems to work fine for me.

Here's some pics of mine: (wheels have been upgraded, but no new pics yet)

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=215909&highlight=585

[Keith A]

Who is the painter?

Tony Wright at Color Wheel Designs...
https://www.facebook.com/colorwheeldesigns/

I think he's a member here, but not sure of his username.

He has done some work for the user "Bentley".

[robt57]

I'm 6', and I think 58 is my optimum size. My inseam is 32 inches. I bought a 585 XL and am running a 120 stem. Seems to work fine for me.


What bar reach you got going??

I am also 6' and a little more. I used to be 6'-1.25", more like 6'-0.25" now. I have a long inseam for my height more so now that I lost that inch via disc compressions over 20+ years.

My Origin is a XL, The XXL may have worked, but I had ridden an XXL and the stack was too high for me. Now I wonder if that was an Origin or Optimum. Anyway, using a 115 stem and ErgoNova with a touch extra setback than usual. I can ride it all day too. It is as short a TT on a bike as I like to ride pretty much. But bar reach and stems adjust cockpit length accordingly.

I got my 8.5+ saddle to bars drop without extra stem effort I might have on the XXL Origin. XXL Optimum I'd have needed a Flatforce/Syntace or -20 FSA type and question if I could have got there...

[old_fat_and_slow]

What bar reach you got going??

...

It appears to be 80 mm.

[tuxbailey]

This thread has me wondering... Any modern equivalent of this bike?

[Hawker]

I'm 6', and I think 58 is my optimum size. My inseam is 32 inches. I bought a 585 XL and am running a 120 stem. Seems to work fine for me.

Here's some pics of mine: (wheels have been upgraded, but no new pics yet)

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=215909&highlight=585

Not wild about red bar tape generally...but yours on that bike looks great!!!!

[robt57]

Just got this back from my local painter who polished the frame and recreated some of the decals. I personally think this is a great colorway.

A great colorway, don't forget to post pic when it is rolling...

[robt57]

This thread has me wondering... Any modern equivalent of this bike?

Good question. I can only comment on feel. I had said my Addict LTD which is not lugged felt similar, only globally and almost in a linear fashion stopped built in flex 20% sooner if that make sense.

I was after a Nago carbon lugged, always wanted to try non monocoque frame that was non AL lugs. The early AL lugged round tube one way too flexy for me at the time/age/beef.

The open window chain stay Nago kept being the one I came close on, I really personally disliked that CS and never pulled a trigger.

The my 585 popped up locally and I ran, not walked to grab it.
And I consider it as good a choice for use stupid coin as my Addict LTD. Now I only drool when I see Saronni Extreme Power C50 or most color C64s. I am sure my old fart-dom would not like the ride quality next to the 585. I already got stiff rollers in the stable.

But between Dan [Clean39T] And Wallymann's constant corruption I credit mainly them for here... looking means trading up...

Probably as much as they are near same size as me, and their decadent tastes, corruption at it's finest..

[paredown]

....
But between Dan [Clean39T] And Wallymann's constant corruption I credit mainly them for here... looking means trading up...

Probably as much as they are near same size as me, and their decadent tastes, corruption at it's finest..
Well--it's not just them for sure.

I now own two bikes that make the all-time lists here--and I credit the forum for that.

My CSi was purchased after a sharp-eyed forum member posted in in the 'PSA, Barn finds, good deals' thread--they are a bike that gets a lot of good press here for a near-modern steel--and after riding mine a bit more, I am convinced that the kudos were warranted.

The Look 585 (above) was purchased here on the forum from the eponymous forum member Look585--again a bike that makes a lot of people's lists on this forum and it has certainly lived up to its reputation.

If I had more cash I would try some newer go-fast bikes for the heck of it--but so far I am having a ball with slightly older tech, thanks to this forum.

[old_fat_and_slow]

Not wild about red bar tape generally...but yours on that bike looks great!!!!

Thank you Sir! I agree, I'm not usually a fan either. :)

[texbike]

This thread has me wondering... Any modern equivalent of this bike?

A new Calfee Tetra Pro? New bike, old tech, similar stock geos. However, a new frameset is listed @ $4K on their website. Lugged as well, but not as light.

Texbike

[robt57]

Well--it's not just them for sure.

I now own two bikes that make the all-time lists here--and I credit the forum for that.



I should have said mostly. ;)

I also have a few ones I always wished back in the day I could have got.

585, Early Ti Super X-Lite Spectrum, an S-works Tarmac only slightly less so, and a Reynolds 753 all Henry James fitted that rolls like you're approaching Heaven's Gate...

As close as Pinnacle rides I am likely to get and keep my testicles and/or wife...

[tuxbailey]

That TIME VXRS in the classified is certainly making me curious after reading this thread. My size too.

Good thing (or bad) that I don't have the disposable income for it :)

[robt57]

That TIME VXRS in the classified is certainly making me curious after reading this thread. My size too.

Good thing (or bad) that I don't have the disposable income for it :)


You need a new interest free for a year CC attached to your PayPal anyway...

If you ever pay a penny of interest with this method, stop getting a new one the next year... Or if you ever transfer a balance to the new one, you shoulda already stopped.

Good part is the next one is usually 50% higher capacity, or is that a bad thing...

"A man's got to know his limitations" Dirty Harry

:no:

[tuxbailey]

You need a new interest free for a year CC attached to your PayPal anyway...

If you ever pay a penny of interest with this method, stop getting a new one the next year... Or if you ever transfer a balance to the new one, you shoulda already stopped.

Good part is the next one is usually 50% higher capacity, or is that a bad thing...

"A man's got to know his limitations" Dirty Harry

:no:

Interest free CC churning... been doing that for a while with the deck, finished basement, etc :p Not to mention wheels I just got...

[Dino Suegiù]

This thread has me wondering... Any modern equivalent of this bike?

If I were looking:
Any Colnago from "Extreme-Power" / "Extreme-C" to current "C64".
Holland Cycles "HC Carbon".
Parlee "Z1" / "Z2" / "Z3" / "Z-Zero".

For super fancy looks: IF "Corvid".

[tuxbailey]

For super fancy looks: IF "Corvid".


oooh, that looks nice. For a moment I thought this was related to the current pandemic.

[sjbraun]

This thread has me wondering... Any modern equivalent of this bike?
When my 585 was stolen, I looked around at several bikes, but ended up getting a carbon Maglia Rosa from Steve Hampsten. I asked Steve to replicate the Look's geometry with the contact points on a bike he'd made for me previously. And viola, for a price that was very competitive with comparable framesets from Trek, Felt, or Specialized, I got a custom carbon, tube-to-tube constructed, beautiful and great riding frame.

[FlashUNC]

Gaulzetti Pavaix. It's every bit the bike my Time VXR was.

[axel23]

The frame is a medium. Saddle to axle is just under 70cm. If I were racing, I'd ride a small and use a 120 or 130 stem.

I'll occasionally get on my wife's 585, which is a small, and it fits just fine. Otoh, I like the longer head tube and the less aggressive posture that the medium affords me.

That looks sweet. Questions please. What size frame is it. And what is your axle to top of saddle measure. Thanks.

[axel23]

How does the weight of the Magia Rose compare to the 585? I like the fact that my medium 585 - without exotic components - comes in under 15lbs, and that's including pedals and bottle cages.

When my 585 was stolen, I looked around at several bikes, but ended up getting a carbon Maglia Rosa from Steve Hampsten. I asked Steve to replicate the Look's geometry with the contact points on a bike he'd made for me previously. And viola, for a price that was very competitive with comparable framesets from Trek, Felt, or Specialized, I got a custom carbon, tube-to-tube constructed, beautiful and great riding frame.

[old_fat_and_slow]

When my 585 was stolen, I looked around at several bikes, but ended up getting a carbon Maglia Rosa from Steve Hampsten. ...


If my 585 was stolen, and I wanted to get another plastic bike, I would probably have to go used Colnago, or if new I would have to go custom because I would have to have horizontal top tube and rim brakes. Parlee looks like they could fill the bill with a custom. Most likely, I would just get another Ti bike. :)

[saab2000]

If my 585 was stolen, and I wanted to get another plastic bike, I would probably have to go used Colnago, or if new I would have to go custom because I would have to have horizontal top tube and rim brakes. Parlee looks like they could fill the bill with a custom. Most likely, I would just get another Ti bike. :)

I think all Hampstens are customs and he posts here and ATH.

When I feel like replacing the Look(s) it’s possible a Hampsten is the choice. That seems very, very reasonable given the pedigree of the brands and the riders who rode Looks, including Andy Hampsten himself.

[Dino Suegiù]

Not that some would care, but others might: I thought the initial question here related to lugged carbon frames specifically?

Is that Pavaix frame lugged? It seems the Hampsten is a (generic?) Columbus tube-to-tube kit?

The Colnago C64 is no longer available new with a horizontal top tube at all, but the Holland, Parlee, Calfee, and IF Corvid are. I guess there are a few other lugged carbon producers still around.

[FlashUNC]

Not that some would care, but others might: I thought the initial question here related to lugged carbon frames specifically?

Is that Pavaix frame lugged? It seems the Hampsten is a (generic?) Columbus tube-to-tube kit?

The Colnago C64 is no longer available new with a horizontal top tube at all, but the Holland, Parlee, Calfee, and IF Corvid are. I guess there are a few other lugged carbon producers still around.

Pavaixs are internally lugged, hence the ability to do custom geo.

[Dino Suegiù]

Pavaixs are internally lugged, hence the ability to do custom geo.

I see. So also tube-to-tube then, like the Hampsten, Crumpton, etc.

The external lugged frames listed previously can all also be ordered in custom geometry afaik.

[picstloup]

The frame is a medium. Saddle to axle is just under 70cm. If I were racing, I'd ride a small and use a 120 or 130 stem.

I'll occasionally get on my wife's 585, which is a small, and it fits just fine. Otoh, I like the longer head tube and the less aggressive posture that the medium affords me.

Thanks axel23. Gives me a good idea about my own position and what is possible. My saddle height 72.5, and i generally have a bit more drop, at least by looks of it, to the bars...

[sjbraun]

How does the weight of the Magia Rose compare to the 585? I like the fact that my medium 585 - without exotic components - comes in under 15lbs, and that's including pedals and bottle cages.

MY 585 was an XL. IIRC, with pedals, cages, Chorus 11 and some 1,450 gm wheels it weighed just under 17 pounds. The Maglia Rosa with a mix of Recors and Super Record parts and similar weight wheels is just a tad over 17 pounds.

Neither bike felt heavy when when pedaling.

[flying]

Not that some would care, but others might: I thought the initial question here related to lugged carbon frames specifically?

Is that Pavaix frame lugged? It seems the Hampsten is a (generic?) Columbus tube-to-tube kit?

The Colnago C64 is no longer available new with a horizontal top tube at all, but the Holland, Parlee, Calfee, and IF Corvid are. I guess there are a few other lugged carbon producers still around.


Just my 2cents ;)

I know what your asking & yes I think external lugged tubed like this 585 has a certain liveliness that is not reproduced with internal lugs being stiffer

That aside......I will also say I think the Look 585 was just plain special period.

The way their tubes were done, sized/shaped etc was just intentionally or not ....perfect

Look for what ever reason really hit a home run with the 585 why they don't just re-release it is beyond me. ( I think it was quite labor intense)

I once went & wrote the US Distributor a few years ago when we had this same discussion on another forum. The guy agreed & said he would even forward the message to Look Headquarters & point out the discussion on that forum :rolleyes:;)

Well as we know nothing came of it. ;)

[Dino Suegiù]

Just my 2cents ;)

I agree completely, all points.

Colnago C40, Colnago C50, Look 585 are probably the 3 most universally beloved, respected, and legendary lugged carbon frames ever.

I ride an Extreme-Power, which is perfect for me, but that model does not quite approach the iconic status of those other 3 I think. Either way, lugged (meaning: external lugs) carbon is special.

[sjbraun]

When I bought my Hampsten, Steve said he had collaborated with Crumpton on the carbon Maglia Rosas. I met the fabricator, Peter Graham, formerly of Mad Fiber Wheels and saw how he builds frames. Tubesets from Enve are mitered, placed in a jig, and tacked together with an adhesive. Once alignment is confirmed, the joints are painstakingly wrapped in (hundreds) of small pieces of carbon fiber. Once everything is wrapped, the whole thing goes into an oven for baking. This might not be a completely accurate description of the process and may have changed since my bike was built three years ago.
This is a very sublime riding bicycle.

[jet sanchez]

Anyone riding a 675?

Just sold my 586 and I am hankering for another Look and the 675 really looks great....on paper and in appearance.

[Hawker]

When I bought my Hampsten, Steve said he had collaborated with Crumpton on the carbon Maglia Rosas. I met the fabricator, Peter Graham, formerly of Mad Fiber Wheels and saw how he builds frames. Tubesets from Enve are mitered, placed in a jig, and tacked together with an adhesive. Once alignment is confirmed, the joints are painstakingly wrapped in (hundreds) of small pieces of carbon fiber. Once everything is wrapped, the whole thing goes into an oven for baking. This might not be a completely accurate description of the process and may have changed since my bike was built three years ago.
This is a very sublime riding bicycle.

Looks gorgeous and smooth. Good luck with it.

[picstloup]

1698003322

Seller says it comes with the full headset, like any 'new' bike...I'll take some better photos when it gets here...not my favorite colors, but new was a preference...

seems this is from about 2008, but never used...makes me a little nervous buying such an old frame...fingers and toes crossed...

I see i need to get a 31.8 front derailleur hanger, is that right? Any suggestions? Just don't want to screw up the seat tube. I usually put some clear protective tape on the inside of the hanger. Well. I do that on my steel frames.

Anything I need to know about how to build this up?

Oh, not familiar with the headset. Does it need grease around the cartridges, in the head tube, someplace? My old staple is phil wood grease for bottom bracket threads, all threads pretty much. A dab of that between stem and bars?

I'm thinking aluminum seat post. I have an old american classic i like. I have read about a 'paste' or something to use instead of grease. Helps with corrosion? Helps with slipping seat posts? I can buy new if necessary.

Thinking Ritchey stem and bars. Might wait till frame comes and I can measure compared to my current old ride. See how close i can get. Was planning on try his Butano style bars with a slight 2 degree flare on the drops. Just looking for as much comfort as possible. Ritchey WCS C220 84D Stem 31.8 - 1 1/8 Inch stem. Can be flipped around for a slight rise if i need it.

I'm not sure yet, but will probably build with potenza or chorus. I gotta look around for pricing. I prefer campagnolo, but know most bike shops around here will stock shimano and shimano compatible wheels. I haven't gone to bike shops looking for quite a while so have to see what is available.

Was thinking zonda wheelset if i go campagnolo. Relatively cheap. And i read here all the time how dependable they are. I'm heavy right now. 100kg. But hope to be down to a more normal weight for me, about 88kg, in a while.

What about Ritchey wcs zeta wheel set. Good? Dependable. I see they available with shimano or campy compatible hubs/cassettes.

Hmmm, I just remembered I have a set of wheels in storage. 32 hole campy record hubs. Probably old mavic pro rims. It is ten speed. Bought years ago to use with 10 speed chorus shifters. Can I use that with 11 or 12 speed cassettes? Is that compatible?

Hope you don't mind all the questions. If you think any of my choices/ideas for parts are questionable, please let me know. Just want a simple, easy, dependable build and velo. More concerned with dependability than weight, comfort, good handling, especially on curvy twisty descents...
thanks
M

[saab2000]

Yes, you'll need to put grease on the headset components, both to prevent corrosion and to prevent creaking. And yes, I'd use some gritty carbon assembly compound to prevent seatpost slippage and galling.

If you're concerned about assembly have a professional mechanic do the work. And it's probably smart to have a professional and/or experienced mechanic do the fork cutting. Don't measure twice and cut once. Measure about 10 times because you can't add it back.

[picstloup]

Yes, you'll need to put grease on the headset components, both to prevent corrosion and to prevent creaking. And yes, I'd use some gritty carbon assembly compound to prevent seatpost slippage and galling.

If you're concerned about assembly have a professional mechanic do the work. And it's probably smart to have a professional and/or experienced mechanic do the fork cutting. Don't measure twice and cut once. Measure about 10 times because you can't add it back.

Ok. For sure, when I'm ready, I'll go to bike shop to cut down fork...will need a while to see what works best for my position.

Gonna build myself. I love putting a bike together. Just relaxing. Fun.

[flying]

seems this is from about 2008, but never used...makes me a little nervous buying such an old frame...fingers and toes crossed...



Nice & yes that is one of the later models 585..Nice Score NOS;)

Personally I would go carbon seatpost....The setback carbons on Ebay are excellent 191 grams & very inexpensive....I paid like $23 all over Ebay ToSeek etc

Wheels I love Zonda myself & yes Ritchey are also great but cost more

Ritchey cockpit would be great too.

Really just about anything will work fine. That is a great frameset & I wouldn't worry about age especially as it is NOS. When you look inside you will see how well they were built

Congrats;)

[lookout2015]

I'm not sure yet, but will probably build with potenza or chorus. I gotta look around for pricing. I prefer campagnolo, but know most bike shops around here will stock shimano and shimano compatible wheels. I haven't gone to bike shops looking for quite a while so have to see what is available.

Was thinking zonda wheelset if i go campagnolo. Relatively cheap. And i read here all the time how dependable they are. I'm heavy right now. 100kg. But hope to be down to a more normal weight for me, about 88kg, in a while.

What about Ritchey wcs zeta wheel set. Good? Dependable. I see they available with shimano or campy compatible hubs/cassettes.

Hmmm, I just remembered I have a set of wheels in storage. 32 hole campy record hubs. Probably old mavic pro rims. It is ten speed. Bought years ago to use with 10 speed chorus shifters. Can I use that with 11 or 12 speed cassettes? Is that compatible?



Campy 10 speed freehubs will work with Campy 11 or 12 speed cassettes also — so you can use your old wheels initially while you figure out a direction you want to go. Zondas are great wheels for the price and very durable though

Potenza is 11 speed only, a bit harder to find, a bit cheaper, still available in silver (though that frame is more suited to black I think) as well as black. Chorus is only black and you can get 11 or 12 speed — roughly the same cost for either as 12 speed Chorus is a bit more plastic and less metal than 11 speed Chorus. If you do have access to them in a shop you may find you prefer the feel / function of one over the other (Potenza is PowerShift, Chorus UltraShift — feels different and PowerShift you can’t dump as many gears at once)

Merlin Cycles in the UK usually has a good Campy selection at reasonable prices, and is still shipping quickly if your LBS doesn’t do Campy. The German usual suspects (bike24, starbike, etc) have been very slow to the US lately due to COVID in my experience but may not be as bad for you in France

[picstloup]

Nice & yes that is one of the later models 585..Nice Score NOS;)

Personally I would go carbon seatpost....The setback carbons on Ebay are excellent 191 grams & very inexpensive....I paid like $23 all over Ebay ToSeek etc

Wheels I love Zonda myself & yes Ritchey are also great but cost more

Ritchey cockpit would be great too.

Really just about anything will work fine. That is a great frameset & I wouldn't worry about age especially as it is NOS. When you look inside you will see how well they were built

Congrats;)

think I'm gonna use my old aluminum post, just to make sure the frame, my position is workable, and then maybe upgrade...thanks for the tips, appreciate it...yes, everyone (almost) seems to really like the zondas...

thanks Flying...

[picstloup]

Campy 10 speed freehubs will work with Campy 11 or 12 speed cassettes also — so you can use your old wheels initially while you figure out a direction you want to go. Zondas are great wheels for the price and very durable though

Potenza is 11 speed only, a bit harder to find, a bit cheaper, still available in silver (though that frame is more suited to black I think) as well as black. Chorus is only black and you can get 11 or 12 speed — roughly the same cost for either as 12 speed Chorus is a bit more plastic and less metal than 11 speed Chorus. If you do have access to them in a shop you may find you prefer the feel / function of one over the other (Potenza is PowerShift, Chorus UltraShift — feels different and PowerShift you can’t dump as many gears at once)

Merlin Cycles in the UK usually has a good Campy selection at reasonable prices, and is still shipping quickly if your LBS doesn’t do Campy. The German usual suspects (bike24, starbike, etc) have been very slow to the US lately due to COVID in my experience but may not be as bad for you in France

thanks for info on my 10 speed rear hub...i will get them out of storage this week...i'll also check out Merlin Cycles...i did look at evans, ribble, probike, and they all seem to carry sram and shimano only...

only thing that kinda bugs me about the campy chorus group is the crank set...I mean i don't like the look/design...the rest is fine...and i can live with it...

but there is a place, here in france, pretty much complete chorus 12 speed for 989 euros...includes english bb cups...

I've also been ordering from bike24 in germany...they are fast and reasonable in price for me...need to check starbike...never heard of them...

thanks lookout2015

[thirdgenbird]

Chorus is only black and you can get 11 or 12 speed — roughly the same cost for either as 12 speed Chorus is a bit more plastic and less metal than 11 speed Chorus.

Im not sure where this is coming from. Chorus 12 is more aluminum and less carbon when compared to 11.

[RiderR]

Nice - where in France did you find the NOS frame?

[nachetetm]

Nice - where in France did you find the NOS frame?I do also check Leboncoin and I missed that beauty. What size is it?

[picstloup]

I do also check Leboncoin and I missed that beauty. What size is it?

It's a medium.

Seller made me aware of the short top tube. It took me a few days to track down a geometry chart. Compare to current ride. And being that the steerer tube isn't cut down yet, leaves a lot of leeway for position. It should fit well with a slightly longer stem. Gonna try 110 first. I might need 120.

Also. I was skeptical about it because no head set was mentioned. Contacted seller and he assures me, like any new frame, it comes with the complete head set. I was afraid to ask, but when those were new they also came with a carbon seat post. No mention of it in his ad. I'm hoping to be surprised. But the seat post is an easy thing to find. The head set, more rare than hens teeth.

I have been looking around, slowly. I was 65 last month so wanted to treat myself to something new and exciting. I guess this is old and exciting.

Actually thought to buy a Ritchey Road Logic, but was waiting on the company to present a better color. Don't like the gray and yellow on offer now for a rim brake set up.

This 585 optimum showed up a few days ago on leboncoin. And honest, I've read on these forums for years about how much people love them. So. A little nervous. I'm taking a chance on this. It'll probably be here in the next week or two.

[picstloup]

Im not sure where this is coming from. Chorus 12 is more aluminum and less carbon when compared to 11.

I wonder if you know the difference good or bad between the older 11 speed and the newer 12 speed. I can find both for around 1000 euros. I mean 'more' always sounds better, but often it is just more and not really better.

and a short ps...i've found a front derailleur hanger that should work, but wonder what people who have these frames use...the one i found is a generic kinda thing...i wonder if campy makes 'em, shimano?...maybe someone who designs them so they are efficient and not too likely to damage the seat tube...

thanks
m

[paredown]

It's a medium.

Seller made me aware of the short top tube. It took me a few days to track down a geometry chart. Compare to current ride. And being that the steerer tube isn't cut down yet, leaves a lot of leeway for position. It should fit well with a slightly longer stem. Gonna try 110 first. I might need 120.

Also. I was skeptical about it because no head set was mentioned. Contacted seller and he assures me, like any new frame, it comes with the complete head set. I was afraid to ask, but when those were new they also came with a carbon seat post. No mention of it in his ad. I'm hoping to be surprised. But the seat post is an easy thing to find. The head set, more rare than hens teeth.

I have been looking around, slowly. I was 65 last month so wanted to treat myself to something new and exciting. I guess this is old and exciting.

Actually thought to buy a Ritchey Road Logic, but was waiting on the company to present a better color. Don't like the gray and yellow on offer now for a rim brake set up.

This 585 optimum showed up a few days ago on leboncoin. And honest, I've read on these forums for years about how much people love them. So. A little nervous. I'm taking a chance on this. It'll probably be here in the next week or two.

I think you are going to love it! If I had free choice, I would probably pick the Optimum for fit.

(I too went and looked at Leboncoin because of the watermark on the photo--I'll bookmark it.)

[thirdgenbird]

I wonder if you know the difference good or bad between the older 11 speed and the newer 12 speed. I can find both for around 1000 euros. I mean 'more' always sounds better, but often it is just more and not really better.


I skipped 11 but here is my initial thoughts.

11 speeds pros
Lighter
Same cog spacing as shimano 11
Better looking rear derailleur

12 speed pros
34t cassette available
Subcompact crank available
More chain wrap (supposedly longer part life)
Improved front shifting
Improved ergos

In short, the major change is the availability of lower gearing. If you don’t need that, you trade some carbon and weight savings for one cog and very small refinements.

I went 12 for the 34t cog and I wanted to be in the current group. The loss of carbon and weight gain doesn’t concern me at all. 2015+ chorus 11 is a pretty fantastic group that I think will be sought after for years. 2015+ chorus with pre-15 5-bolt cranks might be one of the the best looking combinations made. I would be tempted to go that way on a go fast carbon road bike.


Edit:
I would support zonda wheels. The pre-2015 brakes are also a bit higher quality. The are Campagnolo made vs Tektro made. That said, the 2015 calipers have more tire clearance and some report they have improved performance.

It would be work, but this would be awesome and timeless:
Zonda wheels
Pre 2015 cranks
Pre 2015 brakes
2015+ Shifters and derailleurs

Going straight chorus 11 or 12 would be simple. You really can’t go wrong with any of it.

[flying]

and a short ps...i've found a front derailleur hanger that should work, but wonder what people who have these frames use...the one i found is a generic kinda thing...i wonder if campy makes 'em, shimano?...maybe someone who designs them so they are efficient and not too likely to damage the seat tube...

thanks
m


When I had mine I used a Campy Chorus? clamp

No need to worry much about damage. Just torque to spec & that clamp really does not take much abuse/stress anyway when you think of the force/direction when using the FD IMHO ;)

[dave thompson]

I wonder if you know the difference good or bad between the older 11 speed and the newer 12 speed. I can find both for around 1000 euros. I mean 'more' always sounds better, but often it is just more and not really better.

and a short ps...i've found a front derailleur hanger that should work, but wonder what people who have these frames use...the one i found is a generic kinda thing...i wonder if campy makes 'em, shimano?...maybe someone who designs them so they are efficient and not too likely to damage the seat tube...

thanks
m

Use whatever is the correct size for the frame and for brand of front derailleur you plan to utilize.

[RiderR]

http://cyclaffaires.fr/produit/585-pro-team/
https://www.troc-velo.com/cadre-cadre-route-look-585-1-1-2704733.htm

[Johnnysmooth]

Just took out my Look 595 after about a yr of it sitting on trainer. Riding Reynolds DV46-UL tubulars the bike reminded me of all the reasons I got it in first place. Quick, stiff and just a tad twitchy, which was perfect for racing.

Yes, it is not a 585, but pretty darn close.

Not racing anymore and have a C60 as the ride you'll usually find me on. The reason I went back to Colnago was the desire to have a more relaxed, predictable, stable ride. It doesn't have that twitch and quick jump but it is a magic carpet ride of a bike.

Interesting to note, both are externally lugged, finely crafted.

I love them both but for completely different reasons.

[Tim Porter]

Great thread, makes me want a Look! If you can find the right one, a Serotta Mei Vici or HSG can be a great lugged carbon bike.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/a583/porterphoto1/6124DAFD_59D3_432E_8DF2_5DF6C0CE4D0E.jpeg

[Robot870]

Damn! That's extremely nice!!!!!!!

[weisan]

Great thread, makes me want a Look! If you can find the right one, a Serotta Mei Vici or HSG can be a great lugged carbon bike.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/a583/porterphoto1/6124DAFD_59D3_432E_8DF2_5DF6C0CE4D0E.jpeg

Tim pal, every bike of yours is like mona lisa, from an aesthetic standpoint, you got full points.

[Tim Porter]

Tim pal, every bike of yours is like mona lisa, from an aesthetic standpoint, you got full points.

Thanks, Weisan-pal!

[saab2000]

I’m not looking for anything at the moment, but if a Meivici or HSG in VGC or NOS in 57 became available I’d have a hard time saying no. Those were real head turners.

[Jeckel30]

I’m not looking for anything at the moment, but if a Meivici or HSG in VGC or NOS in 57 became available I’d have a hard time saying no. Those were real head turners.

I have a Meivici that I have been too lazy to post up for sale. Maybe slightly big but here is the geometry.

[RiderR]

Tim - wow. Beautiful.

[saab2000]

I have a Meivici that I have been too lazy to post up for sale. Maybe slightly big but here is the geometry.

Thanks! I think there were a few made with shorter head tubes and that’s what I’d be looking for. I’m mostly a level top tube guy. The HGS had some too.

[AllesWirdGut]

Great thread, makes me want a Look! If you can find the right one, a Serotta Mei Vici or HSG can be a great lugged carbon bike.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/a583/porterphoto1/6124DAFD_59D3_432E_8DF2_5DF6C0CE4D0E.jpeg

Damn! Any idea what that color is?

[Hawker]

Mr. Porter,
Whew! Great looking ride and I love the color! I presume this is a deep burgundy and not brown? Man that is sweet, thanks for the post.

[Tim Porter]

The color is definitely a burgundy, not a brown, though in some light it can look brown. Serotta called it Tempranillo, like the Spanish grape/wine.

[picstloup]

1698003702

1698003703

1698003704


It's like the seller said. Came with full headset. Sent in a Giant box. There was a black canvas bag with headset, 30mm of look spacers, brake nut (i think for the fork), even had a guarantee card, look stickers, manual for headset, wheels installation, and a small color brochure with all of looks products way back when...

cable guide under bottom bracket has a very small black tube in it where the front derailleur cable goes...i guess this helps prevent friction on the frame?...it's really small/narrow, but i guess the cable goes through it...there isn't one for the rear derailleur, but it doesn't look like it needs one there...

gonna have to do a dry run of fork install with headset...it's weird there's no bottom plastic washer or something to keep dust from getting into bottom of head tube, but it may make more sense when I piece it together...

if things look 'weird' or not right in any sense I'll bring it to a shop to have them install it...but the manual shows just the bearing thrust ring and lower bearing into the head tube and the fork sliding right into that...

was happy to see the 'elusive' bearing thrust rings already installed in top and bottom of head tube...headset also has 4 extremely thin spacers, at first i thought it was one 1mm spacer, but the grease they applied all those years ago stuck it together, and it slid apart on closer inspection...

ok, i guess that's it for now...thanks to you all for the help on this i appreciate it...waiting on build parts to come...oh, decided on chorus 12 speed (despite really not liking the look/design of the crank set)...hoping i like it better in person...it'll be a few weeks before it's built and ready to go...

because of health problems, age, and a long time off the bike I went with the new and smaller 32-48 chain rings...see how that goes...figure i can always buy 34/50 down the road if it doesn't 'feel' right...

but did two spins on my old Tommaso this week and it felt great and man, I am happy to get back on the road...running campagnolo 8 speed ergo from about 1994...still works...i think i need new brake pads on her...gearing a bit difficult, i've got a 39/51 with 12/26 in back...could be 13/26,...it was hard for me getting up the small climbs in the area around my house...so I think the easier gearing is the right way to go on the new ride...

short ps...when first seeing the frame on the internet I really didn't like the dark frame, but damn, no paint, just the silver/black of the carbon fiber under the clear coat and the minimal look of the decals looks really nice in person...

[Elefantino]

Welcome to the club!

[picstloup]

Welcome to the club!

thanks...

[thirdgenbird]

You are going to like the chorus 12. The minimal branding is going to look great with that frame. I also think the crankset will look nice. I am a fan of the solid chainring. It visually pairs well with mid depth wheels.

[old_fat_and_slow]

1698003702

...

Wow great find getting one of those NOS! Post the build when done. You're going to like it!

[Hawker]

Looks great, I think you'll love it. And finding one NOS...man, that could be the last one on the planet!

[flying]

1698003702

short ps...when first seeing the frame on the internet I really didn't like the dark frame, but damn, no paint, just the silver/black of the carbon fiber under the clear coat and the minimal look of the decals looks really nice in person...

Agree 100% it is quite beautiful & simple in person

Congrats & good luck with your build. No worries about chainring sizes
smaller is the trend ;) Your knees will appreciate it :beer:

[picstloup]

Would starting around 5nm for tightening the seat post bolt be about right? Any guidance helpful. There's nothing marked on the collar. Or do I follow nm indicated with seat post?

One question about the headset expander plug. From what I've seen/read, it should sit where the stem is, in that space. So, no go if i don't want to cut the stem right now as I play with position, and the stem on the steerer is quite a bit lower than the area where the expander sits in the steerer, up top. Do I have that right? Kinda wish that area that expands was a bit longer anyway.

Still waiting on parts from two different mail order places. It's the hardest part :)

I've been toying with the idea of an upgrade to my old bikes, hmmm, maybe just something different, for a while. When this NOS frame came up and i checked size, etc. I just jumped on it.

I'll post pics of the build when I'm done.

I'm kinda thinking to use a silver seat post, though originally I thought it would be black. I have photos of my old Colnago c40 with a silver colnago seat post and it looked really good.

And I did slip the front wheel on my Tommaso into the Look HSC5 fork. It's an old Mavic Open Pro with a 28mm conti 4 season on it. It fit fine with plenty room to spare. Hope the chorus brakes leave enough space to use 28's on the bike. Though I am also thinking to buy the zonda's and put 25mm tires on. That should be comfy.

okokok, later...thanks for all the advice along the way here...really helpful...
M

[Elefantino]

Would starting around 5nm for tightening the seat post bolt be about right? Any guidance helpful. There's nothing marked on the collar. Or do I follow nm indicated with seat post?

One question about the headset expander plug. From what I've seen/read, it should sit where the stem is, in that space. So, no go if i don't want to cut the stem right now as I play with position, and the stem on the steerer is quite a bit lower than the area where the expander sits in the steerer, up top. Do I have that right? Kinda wish that area that expands was a bit longer anyway.

Still waiting on parts from two different mail order places. It's the hardest part :)

I've been toying with the idea of an upgrade to my old bikes, hmmm, maybe just something different, for a while. When this NOS frame came up and i checked size, etc. I just jumped on it.

I'll post pics of the build when I'm done.

I'm kinda thinking to use a silver seat post, though originally I thought it would be black. I have photos of my old Colnago c40 with a silver colnago seat post and it looked really good.

And I did slip the front wheel on my Tommaso into the Look HSC5 fork. It's an old Mavic Open Pro with a 28mm conti 4 season on it. It fit fine with plenty room to spare. Hope the chorus brakes leave enough space to use 28's on the bike. Though I am also thinking to buy the zonda's and put 25mm tires on. That should be comfy.

okokok, later...thanks for all the advice along the way here...really helpful...
M
I run 25mm Veloflex Masters on my Reynolds carbon or American Classic alloy wheels, and there is enough clearance for 28s. But I'm happy with the buttery ride of 25s.

Can't wait to see the build!

[tanghy]

Would starting around 5nm for tightening the seat post bolt be about right? Any guidance helpful. There's nothing marked on the collar. Or do I follow nm indicated with seat post?

One question about the headset expander plug. From what I've seen/read, it should sit where the stem is, in that space. So, no go if i don't want to cut the stem right now as I play with position, and the stem on the steerer is quite a bit lower than the area where the expander sits in the steerer, up top. Do I have that right? Kinda wish that area that expands was a bit longer anyway.

Still waiting on parts from two different mail order places. It's the hardest part :)

I've been toying with the idea of an upgrade to my old bikes, hmmm, maybe just something different, for a while. When this NOS frame came up and i checked size, etc. I just jumped on it.

I'll post pics of the build when I'm done.

I'm kinda thinking to use a silver seat post, though originally I thought it would be black. I have photos of my old Colnago c40 with a silver colnago seat post and it looked really good.

And I did slip the front wheel on my Tommaso into the Look HSC5 fork. It's an old Mavic Open Pro with a 28mm conti 4 season on it. It fit fine with plenty room to spare. Hope the chorus brakes leave enough space to use 28's on the bike. Though I am also thinking to buy the zonda's and put 25mm tires on. That should be comfy.

okokok, later...thanks for all the advice along the way here...really helpful...
M


Where did you find this frame?

[picstloup]

Where did you find this frame?

it was on le bon coin here in France...

sent to me from a bike shop with return address in Bar le Duc, it's now a Giant bike shop as far as I can tell...kinda upper north east, not far from Nancy where my wife was born...

[rePhil]

As for a seatpost I would suggest a Look Ergopost Mine all come in around 190 grams and I have never had any slippage issues

I found this: Scroll down for the 585


https://www.chrissports.ch/content/files/Files/Service&Technik/Look/Look%20Spareparts%202009.pdf

8nm is more than I use. I have no slipping problem at 5nm with an Ergopost

[thirdgenbird]

I think you can make a silver post work, but not on its own. On my chorus 12 build, I went with a silver seatpost, stem, bars, brakes, and skewers. I didn’t go with the chorus 12 brakes because it’s a cross bike.

On this build, I think it may look great if you went with a silver seatpost, stem, bars, hubs, spokes, skewers. I would stay with black rims to complement the chorus 12 chainrings.

[Latestart]

Any thoughts on a fair price for a well-used Look 595 XXL frame?

13k miles, structurally ok (i expect, will inspect), but cosmetically shows age with scuffs and paint chips.

Inspired by the 'naked' frame earlier in this thread and wondering the fair price for what is a project-frame cosmetically.

John

[picstloup]

As for a seatpost I would suggest a Look Ergopost Mine all come in around 190 grams and I have never had any slippage issues

I found this: Scroll down for the 585


https://www.chrissports.ch/content/files/Files/Service&Technik/Look/Look%20Spareparts%202009.pdf

8nm is more than I use. I have no slipping problem at 5nm with an Ergopost

this info helps a lot, thanks...

[picstloup]

I think you can make a silver post work, but not on its own. On my chorus 12 build, I went with a silver seatpost, stem, bars, brakes, and skewers. I didn’t go with the chorus 12 brakes because it’s a cross bike.

On this build, I think it may look great if you went with a silver seatpost, stem, bars, hubs, spokes, skewers. I would stay with black rims to complement the chorus 12 chainrings.

you're right...i took another look at my old colnago, hmmm, i should post a pic...the seat post was silver, but so was all of my chorus 10 speed...only the stem and bars were black and they looked good...

[picstloup]

reading around the internet it seems some have changed the expander/compression plug for something longer like a specialized, or bbb, just something longer to shore up the inside of the forks steerer tube under the stem bolt area...

can someone tell me if there is a right or wrong to this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bSnbjHiFXc&t=475s

he talks about the specialized expander as good and talks about the Look/fsa plug as not really being sufficient...

it does make me wonder...i mean the folks at Look who designed and specified the compression plug and top cap from fsa must have known what they were doing, no?

I started feeling, that especially as i piece the fork/frame together now and want to leave the steerer length as is until i find a good height for my stem it might be a good thing to have a longer compression plug...

yes? no? any risks involved? of course I'd use all of the Look parts for the rest...

might visit the specialized store we have here in a few days, see what they have in stock...

will probably be another week to two weeks before i can put it all together...some parts came yesterday, but more coming in the next week to ten days...

thanks for help
M

[Dave]

Unless this is your first bike, you should be able to compare the BB height and head tube length, with the headset top section to some other bike and not be off by more than 5-10mm.

With newer frames where stack height is published, it's even easier to get everything right the first time.

Obviously, the short FSA style plug won't work with a lot of spacer sitting on top of the stem. The plug is at least needed to allow the headset bearings to be preloaded. After that, some people remove the plug and never use it. If that's done, don't get carried away when tightening the stem clamp bolts.

I try to buy my frames, so I don't need more than 10mm of spacer. I would use stem angle to add some height, as needed. I've never used more angle than a -6 degree provides.

In the end, I install a thread insert and epoxy to fill the entire stem clamp area, so no expanding plug is needed and the steerer is absolutely crush proof.

[rePhil]

Technology can improve through time, but if it was good enough for the Look engineers then, it should be ok now. I have three 585's all with the Look compression cap, and have never had any issues.
I like Raoul and wonder why one of the big manufacturers hasn't put him on the payroll, or at least hire him long enough to straighten out their processes.
My only comment on your build would be to look for a Look Ergopost.
Enjoy the ride!


reading around the internet it seems some have changed the expander/compression plug for something longer like a specialized, or bbb, just something longer to shore up the inside of the forks steerer tube under the stem bolt area...

can someone tell me if there is a right or wrong to this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bSnbjHiFXc&t=475s

he talks about the specialized expander as good and talks about the Look/fsa plug as not really being sufficient...

it does make me wonder...i mean the folks at Look who designed and specified the compression plug and top cap from fsa must have known what they were doing, no?

I started feeling, that especially as i piece the fork/frame together now and want to leave the steerer length as is until i find a good height for my stem it might be a good thing to have a longer compression plug...

yes? no? any risks involved? of course I'd use all of the Look parts for the rest...

might visit the specialized store we have here in a few days, see what they have in stock...

will probably be another week to two weeks before i can put it all together...some parts came yesterday, but more coming in the next week to ten days...

thanks for help
M

[picstloup]

Technology can improve through time, but if it was good enough for the Look engineers then, it should be ok now. I have three 585's all with the Look compression cap, and have never had any issues.
I like Raoul and wonder why one of the big manufacturers hasn't put him on the payroll, or at least hire him long enough to straighten out their processes.
My only comment on your build would be to look for a Look Ergopost.
Enjoy the ride!

thanks Phil, yes, thinking about the that seat post...once I piece the fork/headset together I'll see how i feel about the Look cap and plug/expander...decide what to do...and like you, maybe just use what they supply...agree about what you write and the Look engineers...certainly they know more than i do...
m

[picstloup]

Unless this is your first bike, you should be able to compare the BB height and head tube length, with the headset top section to some other bike and not be off by more than 5-10mm.

With newer frames where stack height is published, it's even easier to get everything right the first time.

Obviously, the short FSA style plug won't work with a lot of spacer sitting on top of the stem. The plug is at least needed to allow the headset bearings to be preloaded. After that, some people remove the plug and never use it. If that's done, don't get carried away when tightening the stem clamp bolts.

I try to buy my frames, so I don't need more than 10mm of spacer. I would use stem angle to add some height, as needed. I've never used more angle than a -6 degree provides.

In the end, I install a thread insert and epoxy to fill the entire stem clamp area, so no expanding plug is needed and the steerer is absolutely crush proof.

thanks Dave, i do have the stack and reach figured on my old/current bike...i will be applying that to the new build, plus seeing what i need in terms of stem on the fork,...most spacers to be underneath at first until i figure out what's comfortable for me...then some cutting...

I am taking this slow cause the geometry of this Look seems so different to my old ride with it's 73 degree head and seat tube angles and more 'classic' design from the 1980's...

will need to get saddle position, set back right...a slow process for me, i don't do this often, but based on the listed 585 optimum geometry, head tube length, top tube, stack/reach on my current ride, i should fall comfortably into place...in fact reach is shorter so i do need a somewhat longer stem...

it's gonna be a pleasant experiment for me...plan to take it slow, make sure of my position, comfort...i even thought that if i feel 'not right' about something about the way i'm adjusting position, I'll bring it to a bike shop and have them fit me on it...but I think I should be able to get there myself...

later
m

[picstloup]

this has become an education...reading, watching videos on the different types of expanders...what some think are good, some think are not so good...

here are two I ordered...relatively inexpensive...the first one is a BBB at about 55mm in total length, the second a colnago around 85mm...both much longer than the original Look/FSA that came with the Look 585 optimum frame/fork...

What do you think? I was thinking to go this way especially at the start cause I'll have more steerer than needed and thought getting this expander to cover the length I need with stem might be good...I'd like to keep extra steerer up top with spacers...

Also, I have recently read that some people recommend a thin coat of carbon paste/fiber grip on the part that expands to hug the inside of the steerer...Ritchey has that as part of the install instructions for his expander/carbon fork...

Yes? No?

1698005061

1698005062

I bought these two to see differences in materials. Also, the colnago expander is smooth unlike most of the others i have seen on line...is that bad?

Oh, one last thing, and the last i'll order...found a Specialized expander for only 10 euros so ordered it this morning...i have read/seen videos that this expander is the best...

so i spent about 30 euros on additional expanders, some I'll never use, but thought I needed to see for myself about construction, length to make a somewhat informed decision...

figure as i dial in position on the bike and cut the steerer, maybe install a shorter expander?...just what is needed?...this is new to me so I'm kinda thinking to go with what feels right...just want to make sure i don't damage fork...and keep me safe too :)

parts taking longer than i thought to get here, but slowly I am almost ready to build this thing...

thanks for advice, help, a little push in the right direction :)

m

[Dave]

The model in the first picture would not provide crush resistance at the top, unless it has a very close fit to the inside diameter of the steerer.

I have the Colnago expander, it should work fine, but it's a boat anchor. The surface finish is actually quite rough, just not serrated.

[rePhil]

Is anyone looking for a Medium 585? Here's one currently under $300 with shipping.

[picstloup]

The model in the first picture would not provide crush resistance at the top, unless it has a very close fit to the inside diameter of the steerer.

I have the Colnago expander, it should work fine, but it's a boat anchor. The surface finish is actually quite rough, just not serrated.

Hi Dave. I'm not sure how this will work out fit wise yet, but the top area of the BBB is 10-15mm where I would like to put spacers. The entire knurled part of the expander is the exact length of the area of the stem that clamps to the fork. That's what I'd shoot for when building up the bike, fitting the fork, headset, etc.

And that's why i ordered the colnago expander. That gives me a lot more range of position than the BBB expander for the stem height as i play with my position.

I am hoping the fit just comes easy and I don't need to play too much with this, but I wanted to have some options.

short ps. Dave, I was curious, checked the weight of the colnago expander. It's 'only' 24 grams. The BBB is about 55 grams. In the scheme of things, for me, 24 grams weighs nothing if the expander works as advertised.

[Keith A]

Is anyone looking for a Medium 585? Here's one currently under $300 with shipping.Looks like you might be missing something.

[ddtn]

Could someone tell me what size the front derailleur clamp is for the 585? TIA

[nobuseri]

I used a standard 31.8mm Parlee carbon clamp on mine.

But 31.8 FD clamp of any type should be fine.

[rePhil]

Did anyone here end up with the medium 585?

[Toddtwenty2]

I was in the running, but tapped out around $500.

[saab2000]

Don’t overtighten those expanders. It’s easy to think that tighter is better but even a slight expansion of the exterior diameter will negatively affect steering.

Snug enough so it can’t be pulled out with the bearing pre-load bolt but not much more than that.

[DfCas]

My 585 has an oval shaped interior steerer tube, and a 1&1/8 expander plug does not fit the HSC5 fork. I used a profile gap cap expander and didn’t tighten the stem very tight.

[520arachnid]

Good looking bike:cool:

[picstloup]

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1698006557&stc=1&d=1597759972

Haven't ridden it yet, so steerer tube to be cut when I'm sure about position. Seems where the stem is now should do it. Maybe 5mm lower. Then I'll chop off the top. I used a colnago expander which is about 80mm long. Even with all the spacers up top it extends well below the stem. Found a fun cinelli top cap, bacon and eggs graphic.

Also leaving bar tape off for the first one or two rides. Make sure i like the position of brake hoods. WCS ritchey Butano bars. A very slight back sweep of 4 degrees and 2 degree flare on the drops. Drop is shallow. Reach not too long. I was looking for comfort. I think I have found it. A few rides will tell me.

My position has fallen really nicely into place. All measurements from my old road bike. Plus, the stem/handlebars are slightly higher right now for added comfort if i want it.

The head tube was supposed to be 164 but actually measures 167. Not sure where the additional length is.

Bought a silver aluminum Ritchey seatpost, just to see if i like the look. Seems ok to me. And it was relatively inexpensive and i could clamp the bike into my bike stand to work on it. I may go Look carbon for the post down the road. For now this works for me.

I have bottle cages for it. When it's totally done I will post another final pick.

Over the weeks I found extra cartridge bearings for the head tube/headset, so I bought two pair...and found spare rear derailleur hangers so bought two of those too, just in case.

Can't wait to take it out on shakedown rides.

This is the first bike I've built using torque wrenches for everything. Curious to see if bolts and such stay in place. Was used to doing it all by feel. Never broke anything except for a few campagnolo seat post bolts. I think some carbon paste in the 90s would have helped me there.

oh, lastly, i'm using my old mavic open pros, record hubs, built by colorado cyclist around 1994. Ordered these before I moved to france. Still true. Hubs smooth. Not sure about another set of wheels. Will ride it this way for a while. See how it goes. 25mm conti 5000 with latex tubes. Should be comfy.

[rePhil]

Looking good. An ergo post would be a nice touch.
Get back after a few rides and let us know what you think.

[robt57]

TO me, those hubs and the 7700 Dura ace spin like heaven. So maybe just get some A23 Velocity for the wider rim, especially if the brake tracks are getting near end of service life.

ERD is close enough that the rim swap is as simple as tapeing the new rim to the old one and getting busy moving one spoke at a time over after de-tensioning the old wheel. Then true them up up, no stress re-leaving to do either. The Conti will feel a bit different, and to the better, Maybe even 28s for the next set as they will fit the 585. The 4000 28s would not on either rim.

But the 585 is a smooth riding pimp daddy that IMO getting greedy on fat tires is superfluous.

Mine is running tubeless 28 Conti 5K TL on early Fulcrum Zero that are same internal width as an Open Pro. The 585 doesn't care. It's worst is still as good as or better than the best ride quality of most. Sans the Bianchi CV frames by a millimeter. ;)

I have H+Son on the previous wheels, running 28mm Hutchinson Fusion Pro 5 with Latex tube. A little tight but actually ride better than the TL 28s. I think the Alloy spokes on the Fulcrums don't make for as nice vibration dampening as elastic steel spokes do. And they are cx-rays on the H+ Sons wheels as well, Yada.

Enjoy rolling the 585, I know you will.

[jc031699]

PSA

Although I’m not certain this is the same system as the 585....


https://www.ebay.com/itm/153877790242


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tv_vt]

Personally not crazy about the silver seatpost. A black option to consider is the Fizik Cyrano seatpost.

[Keith A]

PSA

Although I’m not certain this is the same system as the 585....


https://www.ebay.com/itm/153877790242


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNope, this is for the 586 and 595 which have tapered headtubes.

[picstloup]

Personally not crazy about the silver seatpost. A black option to consider is the Fizik Cyrano seatpost.

I looked at that a few months back. Liked it cause it's similar to my old American Classic seat posts that have a separate screw to control tilt. This Ritchey works but any adjustment and i have to revisit tilt again. Seems like I can dial in tilt with the fizik and then play with minor fore/aft position as needed without having to worry about level again.

[parallelfish]

I looked at that a few months back. Liked it cause it's similar to my old American Classic seat posts that have a separate screw to control tilt. This Ritchey works but any adjustment and i have to revisit tilt again. Seems like I can dial in tilt with the fizik and then play with minor fore/aft position as needed without having to worry about level again.

Sort of...

On the American Classic post the tilt adjustment is a simple adjustment screw that projects upwards providing a solid stop. The rear screw of the Fizik post serves two functions - tilt adjustment and rear tension. So while it does dial in tilt, that tilt is variable depending upon how much tension is put on either the front or rear screw. More of a see-saw affair.

[tv_vt]

Sort of...

On the American Classic post the tilt adjustment is a simple adjustment screw that projects upwards providing a solid stop. The rear screw of the Fizik post serves two functions - tilt adjustment and rear tension. So while it does dial in tilt, that tilt is variable depending upon how much tension is put on either the front or rear screw. More of a see-saw affair.

RE the Fizik seatpost: I see it differently. The rear screw tightens down the seat to the post. The front 'wheel' adjusts angle. The rear screw needs to be loose to do the adjusting with the front wheel, but they work independently IMO.

[parallelfish]

RE the Fizik seatpost: I see it differently. The rear screw tightens down the seat to the post. The front 'wheel' adjusts angle. The rear screw needs to be loose to do the adjusting with the front wheel, but they work independently IMO.

You are correct, it is the front screw, not the rear that adjusts the tilt. While the wheel does adjust the angle, there is some minor, but noticeable, variation depending upon the amount of tension on the rear screw. Placing a level or angle finder across the saddle will illustrate that angle varies slightly as the screw is tightened or loosened.

Again, having struggled with this a bit recently, slight, but enough to be felt sitting on the saddle. Not a biggie, just not the absolute positive stop of the American Classic implementation.

[Keith A]

Just got back from spending some time at my mom's, where my Look Ultra 585 currently resides. I managed to get in two rides during my stay, and one of these was a solo 66 miler...and I must say this is indeed one great bike! It just does everything well.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697968677&stc=1&d=1540177999

[Hawker]

Glad it still makes your smile. Mine does as well. In fact, I think it's a better bike than I am a rider.

[mhespenheide]

I think it's a better bike than I am a rider.

Pretty sure that applies to almost all of my bikes.

[pelicanrando]

I got interested in carbon bikes in the past year, after having only ridden steel bikes my whole life. I loved reading about all the Looks in this thread. I picked up a Look 595 Ultra this summer and have been having a blast riding it. It's been so fun going back to skinny tires, and having a light bike. This weighs 16lbs and my rando bike weighs 25lbs, and I can say that you definitely feel that on the climbs. I haven't even wanted to swap out the 12-23 cassette yet.

Fun.

[old_fat_and_slow]

Great looking bike and build! Sweet area to ride.

Where is that NoCal, Oregon ? Looks awesome.

[pelicanrando]

Great looking bike and build! Sweet area to ride.

Where is that NoCal, Oregon ? Looks awesome.

Thanks! Top 2 are SF, and the bridges are in Cazadero near King Ridge in West Sonoma County, where Levi's Gran Fondo goes. It's a beautiful area to ride.

[Zee]

This thread has inspired me to looking for the elusive medium if it comes with a complete headset!

Thank you to all of the contributing voices as well as those who shared images!

[Latestart]

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/bik/d/cedar-brook-look-585-dura-ace-triple/7186561664.html

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-Look-595-Frame-Fork-E-Post/133536968963?hash=item1f176c7103:g:JRgAAOSwTspfeeB K

[velofinds]

Someone please save this:

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bik/d/jersey-city-look-595-ultra-fixed-gesr/7207611171.html

[oldpotatoe]

Someone please save this:

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bik/d/jersey-city-look-595-ultra-fixed-gesr/7207611171.html

No kidding...$600?? Be worth it to buy, strip it, sell the stuff like the rear hub..sell the frame..for way more than $600...

[RiderR]

Someone please save this:

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bik/d/jersey-city-look-595-ultra-fixed-gesr/7207611171.html

That poor frame. Deserves better. Hope someone saves it!

[RiderR]

Back to the 585... I got one and have ridden it a fair bit now. Love it.
Speclialized marketing for the Aethos sounds like they made a 585 with disc brakes and dropping 500g.

[saab2000]

Back to the 585... I got one and have ridden it a fair bit now. Love it.
Speclialized marketing for the Aethos sounds like they made a 585 with disc brakes and dropping 500g.

I love how they say the standard 56 cm frame weight is 585 grams.

[thegunner]

Back to the 585... I got one and have ridden it a fair bit now. Love it.
Speclialized marketing for the Aethos sounds like they made a 585 with disc brakes and dropping 500g.

listen, i love the 585, but you make it sound like dropping 500 grams is not that significant.

[RiderR]

I’m not knocking what S have done. The Aethos looks amazing and that frame weight is unreal.

My point is that its marketing more or less describes what I enjoy about my 585. I’d love to ride an Aethos to compare.

[johnnylarue]

Hey y’all,

I’m giving this thread a jolt as I’m about to buy a 585 (Ultra) and this looks like it will be a safe space to brag about it. :p

I do have an early question about the stock carbon Look stem from that era: anyone know if it can be inverted? This is a feature I’ve come to take for granted in the carbon fork era, but this little number looks like it’s intentionally engineered with only one orientation in mind:
1698017856

[tv_vt]

That stem is going to look very stupid flipped. Just get another one, a Fizik, Deda, Ritchey, etc, and sell that one if it doesn't fit.

[johnnylarue]

That stem is going to look very stupid flipped. Just get another one, a Fizik, Deda, Ritchey, etc, and sell that one if it doesn't fit.
Thanks for confirming my doubts. Gonna see how the fit is with this stem jacked to the top of the (uncut) steerer tube and buy a new one if my back protests too much. Comes with the matching handlebars and it would be fun to keep the set together, but obviously not at the expense of making this bike unrideable for me.

[robt57]

Use it correctly negative and get some S-Works Hover or other similar bars with rise to them??

Rise of the Riser_drops


https://www.slowtwitch.com/Gravel/The_Rise_of_Riser_Drop_Bars_7280.html

[johnnylarue]

Use it correctly negative and get some S-Works Hover or other similar bars with rise to them??

Rise of the Riser_drops


https://www.slowtwitch.com/Gravel/The_Rise_of_Riser_Drop_Bars_7280.html
:eek: (This forum really needs the exploding brain emoji)

These look amazing—I had no idea “riser drops” were a thing.

Will definitely investigate if the fit calls for it. I’ve never been a huge fan of the look of angled stems on racing bikes but, much like the author of that article, long legs/short torso means I usually wind up having to reach more than I’d like to. So this is very promising.

Thanks for the tip!

[johnnylarue]

Johnny’s a happy camper today:banana::
1698018013

Picked it up yesterday after taking it for a 5-minute spin in the seller’s extremely roughly-paved neighbourhood, mainly to verify the fit. I was in sneakers and he suggested I take it down and back up an absurdly steep nearby hill to test its climbing ability. Suffice to say, it was work! And combined with the maximally inflated 23mm tires and rough road, I thought to myself, “Okay I can tell this is a nice bike, but is it really that much better than my $300 Scattante CFR?”

Still, the frame was in nice shape apart from a small chip in the fork paint (shipping damage, it turns out), it was clean and nicely built up with a pretty 7800 Dura Ace group, a period-correct Look carbon cockpit and some rather fetching Ksyrium K10s. I figured I could get my $850 back pretty easily if it didn’t work out.

Today, after hiking up the stem and plopping on my dusty old (conveniently matching) Avatar saddle, I took it for a ride along my usual 10-mile circuit.

Holy. Heck.

This bike is like warm butter gliding across a freshly toasted slice of bread. What a beautiful ride. Its 23mm tires feel significantly smoother than the 25mm I was riding on my beater. At speed, it glides over the bumps and cracks I’ve come to know (and brace for) with nary a jolt to the hands or seat. And equally noticeable, when my legs are nearing that point at which they turn to jelly near the top of a hill, one hard push on the pedal immediately takes me back to cruising speed. I’m... quite smitten.

I still remember the thrill I felt the first time I stepped onto a “real” Italian road bike (my ‘81 Colnago Mexico) after riding various commuter/cruiser/mountain bikes all my life. The thing just jumped out of the gate like a horse on a sugar high. The first couple of weeks, I would go on pleasure rides with friends and my gf and obnoxiously race up hilly side streets “for fun” while they slogged it out on the main route. The 585, being the lightest and most “pro” bike I’ve ever ridden, is giving me that thrill all over again. Granted, the improvements are less drastic than switching from a 50lb Dutch commuter to a 20lb vintage racer, but they’re just as noticeable and euphoria-inducing.

Long story short, way more bike than I’ll ever need, and I can’t wait to get back on the thing! A big hearty thanks to this forum for putting it on my radar.

Now, to the build:

- I acknowledge that the oversized Look stem is pretty hilarious (charitably speaking) and I may end up swapping it out for a more normal stem with a slight rise to better suit the traditional look of the frame. That said,

- the cockpit is impressively forgiving and surprisingly stable, and I really dig the flat tops on these bars. Super comfy on the hands/wrists.

- I don’t love red bar tape, but I keep thinking, “Red bar tape.” Bad idea?

- I think I’m gonna touch up the white portion of the chipped Look logo on the fork.

- Carbon crank would have been my first choice (to match the cockpit), but I kinda dig the all-DA vibe, and there’s just enough metal on those K10s to make it work. Just.

- Seat will eventually become something nicer...

And that concludes this instalment of “Johnny’s 585 Honeymoon Diary”.:p

[robt57]

Due respect, which is it? Or did you think to yourself the first one before you actually rolled the 585. Best known for the second thing you said.

This:

I thought to myself, “Okay I can tell this is a nice bike, but is it really that much better than my $300 Scattante CFR?”


Or this:

This bike is like warm butter gliding across a freshly toasted slice of bread. What a beautiful ride. Its 23mm tires feel significantly smoother than the 25mm I was riding on my beater. At speed, it glides over the bumps and cracks I’ve come to know (and brace for) with nary a jolt to the hands or seat.

BTW, you want more 585 glide, try some known nice riding tires, which those ain't.

[mhespenheide]

Ditch the Look stem and, if you're willing to risk flats, put on some Veloflex 25's. Then {air kiss}.

[joevers]

BTW, you want more 585 glide, try some known nice riding tires, which those ain't.

Truly mind blowing how one can ride 23 gatorskins and comment on how smooth they are. Quite literally one of the most jarring tires you can buy at the moment.

[Latestart]

Amazing the bikes you can get for short money these days. I picked up almost the exact same bike a few months back. Haven't really gotten out on it much, but looking forward to adding it to the rotation in the Spring.

[robt57]

Truly mind blowing how one can ride 23 gatorskins and comment on how smooth they are. Quite literally one of the most jarring tires you can buy at the moment.

And if you need that kinda meat for crappy crud ridden pave that is flat happy, even better...

Amazing the bikes you can get for short money these days.

I've had one for a few seasons. Last year late I upgraded it with some tubular Rolfs that presented themselves and tubeless tubular LGG Clement/Donnely and only ride twice before breaking out the off season meat/bikes. I can not wait to roll it when spring time comes, expect it will be chosen a lot.

[johnnylarue]

Due respect, which is it? Or did you think to yourself the first one before you actually rolled the 585. Best known for the second thing you said.

This:

I thought to myself, “Okay I can tell this is a nice bike, but is it really that much better than my $300 Scattante CFR?”


Or this:

This bike is like warm butter gliding across a freshly toasted slice of bread. What a beautiful ride. Its 23mm tires feel significantly smoother than the 25mm I was riding on my beater. At speed, it glides over the bumps and cracks I’ve come to know (and brace for) with nary a jolt to the hands or seat.

BTW, you want more 585 glide, try some known nice riding tires, which those ain't.

It’s the second. My initial (5 minute) impression was coloured by the rough road, steep hill and overinflated 23mm Gators. It was a rather jarring experience, but I knew the bike’s reputation, recognized that it fit me and that the odds were good I could make it work. The ride today was the polar opposite—better roads, slightly deflated Gators, and most importantly a frame of reference: I know what this route felt like on my “crappy” bike and could easily discern the differences.

Ditch the Look stem and, if you're willing to risk flats, put on some Veloflex 25's. Then {air kiss}.
Very tempting. Not a big flat fan, but my daily ride right now is very predictable and not a huge flat threat. It’s honestly hard to imagine how sweet this bike might feel with nicer tires... As for the Look stem, it’s a bit of a dog but I find it oddly charming...? Gonna keep it around for a few weeks and see, though there’s no denying that beluga-shaped bulge ain’t doing much for this bike’s otherwise fetching silhouette.

Truly mind blowing how one can ride 23 gatorskins and comment on how smooth they are. Quite literally one of the most jarring tires you can buy at the moment.
I’m used to riding 25mm Gators on all my commuter bikes and I’m struggling to remember the last time I had a flat on one of them. They’re heavy, but they’ve served me well (esp in heavy Vancouver rain). I didn’t realize the 23s had a reputation for a harsh ride, but my five minutes on them at max inflation yesterday would support that assertion. And I suppose it’s also a testament to this frame’s ability to absorb buzz that they actually felt pretty good on my ride today—again, probably 5-10psi lower than they were yesterday fwiw.

Amazing the bikes you can get for short money these days. I picked up almost the exact same bike a few months back. Haven't really gotten out on it much, but looking forward to adding it to the rotation in the Spring.
I agree. It hurts my brain that a bike this good has lost so much value in 10+ years. It doesn’t make any logical kind of sense to me. (Meanwhile, its direct rival C50 commands three times the price? ***!?)

[johnnylarue]

Anyone think red tape will work on this thing or should I keep it minimal black up front?

[thegunner]

Ditch the Look stem and, if you're willing to risk flats, put on some Veloflex 25's. Then {air kiss}.

i think you mean {air hiss}, but yeah, they're nice when they aren't cut.

[johnnylarue]

i think you mean {air hiss}, but yeah, they're nice when they aren't cut.
:p Nicely played.

What’s the consensus fast/comfort/flat-resistant tire these days?

[johnnylarue]

Forgot to mention the seller threw in the original ‘limited edition’ tires and tubes that came with those K10s which he never used. Speaking of flats...
1698018023

[weisan]

Johnny pal, if the LOOK 585 is good enough for the pro teams at the 2005 Tour de France, it's good enough for you. No more excuses, enjoy your new bike and ride the heck out of it!

[dave thompson]

I like red bartape on my 585.

[johnnylarue]

I like red bartape on my 585.

Oh that’s quite nice with the red forks.

[johnnylarue]

Johnny pal, if the LOOK 585 is good enough for the pro teams at the 2005 Tour de France, it's good enough for you. No more excuses, enjoy your new bike and ride the heck out of it!

Thanks, weisan! I tend to agree with your assessment. Think I’m gonna throw the lights on and take it for a late night spin (if I can actually manage to keep my eyes open past 10pm...)

[mhespenheide]

I would try to find some of the black bar tape with red perforations, like this:
https://www.modernbike.com/deda-elementi-presa-handlebar-tape---black-red

https://static.modernbike.com/Product_Images/large_158346_20190920120040.jpg

[johnnylarue]

I would try to find some of the black bar tape with red perforations, like this:
https://www.modernbike.com/deda-elementi-presa-handlebar-tape---black-red

That looks pretty smart. After a three minute photoshop mockup, full red tape does seem to overwhelm the rest of the paint, so I think plain black—or with red accents—will be the way to go. (I’d also consider white to play off the Look logos, but it’s just too much upkeep.)

[owly]

After reading through this thread some time ago, thinking about road frames that would fit me ok, the 585 Optimum would do nicely. Would be nice if they came in a grey like the bike one page back.

[kiwisimon]

Get loud with the tape. A little more visual impact from the front and white bits of tape just needs a rag with a bit of dishwash detergent and a rinse the same time you wash your bike. Less fuss than cleaning your bib shorts.

Congrats on the bike and get some wider rubber on there.

https://www.prologo.it/en/products/onetouch-2

[rePhil]

I like the 585 a lot. I got mine through this forum and it appears I am the 4th owner Which confirms the phrase “One persons favorite bike is another’s catch and release”
No doubt it was used and there are places that the clear coat was not the best.
One single ride of 50 miles or so convinced me to go on the hunt for one in better condition. After finding another 585 that was better cosmetically. I sold my Strong steel which is to this day my favorite steel frame.
On June 17, 2015 Things took a turn for the worse when after riding it for a total of 946.7 miles I was crashed by a car that ended up running over the fork destroying it and the front wheel.Even the drivers insurance company didn't want it. I was eventually able to source another HCS5 fork. I have ridden it over 28k since the crash.
One day I came across another almost new 585. After building it up and riding it I sold my Moots. Because of the severity of the crash I will never sell it.
Besides it’s like an old friend, solid, dependable and always ready for a ride.

[Elefantino]

A customer just brought in a 585 Pro Team Origin (I think it's a 2009) for a tune-up and new FD. Although the frame is in good condition, it is completely filthy, with fraying cables and cracked housing.

I wept when I saw it. Sort of.

[texbike]

Johnny’s a happy camper today:banana::
1698018013



This bike is like warm butter gliding across a freshly toasted slice of bread. What a beautiful ride. Its 23mm tires feel significantly smoother than the 25mm I was riding on my beater. At speed, it glides over the bumps and cracks I’ve come to know (and brace for) with nary a jolt to the hands or seat. And equally noticeable, when my legs are nearing that point at which they turn to jelly near the top of a hill, one hard push on the pedal immediately takes me back to cruising speed. I’m... quite smitten.



Congrats on the bike! That was a great deal on a fantastic machine.

Amazing the bikes you can get for short money these days.

Agreed! There have been some incredible deals on high-end, rim brake/thin tire bikes here locally in the past year. There was a Serotta HSG carbon with HED aluminum wheels and SRAM Red on CL this past weekend for $750.
Crazy stuff! I've picked up a few bikes to play with over the last year that I probably shouldn't have (but they were such great deals!), which leads to that hoarding thread...

(Meanwhile, its direct rival C50 commands three times the price? ***!?)

Even the C50s are inexpensive! On a sidenote, I believe the 585 build quality is better than the C50s.


I've had one for a few seasons. Last year late I upgraded it with some tubular Rolfs that presented themselves and tubeless tubular LGG Clement/Donnely and only ride twice before breaking out the off season meat/bikes. I can not wait to roll it when spring time comes, expect it will be chosen a lot.

Your 585 looks fantastic! Did you have it refinished or was it already done when you purchased it? I'd love to know who did the refinish. One of my struggles with the 585 was the limited number of attractive (to me) paint options available. It would be great to have one refinished back to the bare carbon with a bit more gloss finish and minimal decals like your bike has.

Texbike

[robt57]

Your 585 looks fantastic! Did you have it refinished or was it already done when you purchased it? I'd love to know who did the refinish. One of my struggles with the 585 was the limited number of attractive (to me) paint options available. It would be great to have one refinished back to the bare carbon with a bit more gloss finish and minimal decals like your bike has.

Texbike


I got it already stripped after it was Rukus x-rayed. The owner got a new bike one he heard the price on the repaint. And the time to get it to that point lagged a bit, his fear was to loose the season and lost interest in the repaint. It sat in his office for 3 years in the box until he posted it on CL.

All I do is clean and 303 UV protection spray it, the vinyl I got off the internet and alcohol wiped and laid on.

If the vinyl get disturbed by future 303 juicings I may redo and clear over, but not planning to that if I don't have to.

But I also do dig it in all it's weavey naked goodness...