Ben is Back

[laupsi]

Who got the email? Are you interested?

[Toeclips]

Can I order a modern Club Special

Club fork tabs - steel of course
Engraved seat stay caps
Colorado Concept tubing

Ultegra r8000

That would be sweet

[Toeclips]

...and this time I promise I'll say Ottrot correctly

[SoCalSteve]

I got it, bunch of odd shaped tubes....:confused:

[jtbadge]

And with even less information than a few months ago. I don’t know about y’all, but I’m ready to “schedule a live call to discuss my new Serotta bicycle!“

[Elefantino]

I didn't. I'm not.

[josephr]

again? i love my Serotta and have a lot of respect for the guy, but the coming and going and coming back isn't helping out much. Starting to smell like Brett Farve or Lance.

[FlashUNC]

This is like the third re-launch in the last 14 months?

I can't tell if it's coming or going anymore.

So many basic marketing mistakes....

[SoCalSteve]

This is like the third re-launch in the last 14 months?

I can't tell if it's coming or going anymore.

So many basic marketing mistakes....

Wasn’t that his downfall originally? Always wondered why he didn’t use the Serotta Forum as a marketing tool. He might still be in business today if he had.

Look at the way Dave Kirk and Richard Sachs ( among many others ) use the forums and social media.

[Toeclips]

It might be like Space X, the weather has to be just right,

He may have legal issues if he wants the frames to say Serotta on it, I thought he sold the name

Launching a catalog on this site would be nice

[laupsi]

Launching a catalog on this site would be nice

Right? I really respect and want to support the Serotta name, but at least give us a pic, anything that would make us more than skeptical about this “new” endeavor.

[AngryScientist]

living and making bikes in upstate ny is an ideal setting to re-launch a brand.

Covid threw a wrench in the works, but the ideal strategy would have been to take a page from the Sachs playbook.

if i were ben, i would have found the absolute best young up and coming cyclists i could convince to come and race for me. build some budget but sexy looking Pronto's and design some killer attention getting kit and go racing.

be literally all over social media with my posse winning local races, doing epic training rides in the Adirondack mountains.

BE the northeast cycling scene. mix it up with the firefly crew, the seven guys, all that stuff. have fun at races. get muddy. do epic, crazy stuff. post post post.

that's the move.

but no one is listening to me :)

[tuxbailey]

living and making bikes in upstate ny is an ideal setting to re-launch a brand.

Covid threw a wrench in the works, but the ideal strategy would have been to take a page from the Sachs playbook.

if i were ben, i would have found the absolute best young up and coming cyclists i could convince to come and race for me. build some budget but sexy looking Pronto's and design some killer attention getting kit and go racing.

be literally all over social media with my posse winning local races, doing epic training rides in the Adirondack mountains.

BE the northeast cycling scene. mix it up with the firefly crew, the seven guys, all that stuff. have fun at races. get muddy. do epic, crazy stuff. post post post.

that's the move.

but no one is listening to me :)


Sounds like a Rapha ad :p

[jtakeda]

living and making bikes in upstate ny is an ideal setting to re-launch a brand.

Covid threw a wrench in the works, but the ideal strategy would have been to take a page from the Sachs playbook.

if i were ben, i would have found the absolute best young up and coming cyclists i could convince to come and race for me. build some budget but sexy looking Pronto's and design some killer attention getting kit and go racing.

be literally all over social media with my posse winning local races, doing epic training rides in the Adirondack mountains.

BE the northeast cycling scene. mix it up with the firefly crew, the seven guys, all that stuff. have fun at races. get muddy. do epic, crazy stuff. post post post.

that's the move.

but no one is listening to me :)

No offense to Ben Serotta, but I dont think Richard Sachs is some insane marketing guru--hes just a little more hip.

He just baseline has way more style and aesthetic than Ben Serotta as a whole and it translates to his work, paint, social media presence, hats accessories etc.

It would be like asking Eric Clapton to play more like Eddie Hazel. Its not like Ben Serotta is bad at building a brand, building etc. He successfully built a brand and has a cult following

I dont doubt Serotta's ability to build or design a frame--I just think asking him to differentiate himself from all the new and older talents might be difficult

[IJWS]

Sounds like a Rapha ad :p

Sounds too similar to what worked 5-10 years ago on another coast. Is it really repeatable? Does Serotta need any more bad marketing tips?

[AngryScientist]

hey, i never claimed to be a marketing genius, i just think that's what i would do, and have some fun doing it!

again though, no one is asking for my advice, i'm just a chump on a discussion forum discussing a subject i know little about :)

just like in all the other serotta threads, i think everyone here:

A) wishes nothing but the best for ben and his future endeavors. i'd love to see some new S bikes out there getting used, and i bet everyone else here would too, but

B) is not ready to plunk down a hefty deposit and hope it works out.

[jtakeda]

hey, i never claimed to be a marketing genius, i just think that's what i would do, and have some fun doing it!

again though, no one is asking for my advice, i'm just a chump on a discussion forum discussing a subject i know little about :)

just like in all the other serotta threads, i think everyone here:

A) wishes nothing but the best for ben and his future endeavors. i'd love to see some new S bikes out there getting used, and i bet everyone else here would too, but

B) is not ready to plunk down a hefty deposit and hope it works out.

I think this is the key. Weve seen Richard Sachs recent body of work. Weve seen firefly, no22, moots recent work. Were is Bens? what am I gonna get??

[fiamme red]

Interesting that Ben, who used to sell the carbon Meivici, is now sounding like Grant Petersen.

https://serotta.com/bicycles/scappero-t9

All of our bicycle frames are principally built from metals for three great reasons: delivering a highly personalized bicycle requires a wide range of control over size and geometry configurations; we require a wide and consistent palette of tube weight and stiffness options; and, of special importance for bicycles that are ridden where damage is more likely to occur, it's best revealed before it becomes catastrophic. Carbon manufacturing is generally less consistent and all but extreme damage can remain hidden until disaster strikes.I'm curious to hear more about "Project 559."

https://serotta.com/bicycles/cda20

For cyclists who require a shorter cockpit, we also offer “Project 559”, a smaller wheel option.

[Toeclips]

https://cyclingtips.com/2020/02/after-years-in-the-wilderness-serotta-is-back/

Found this in a Google search

[jtbadge]

just like in all the other serotta threads, i think everyone here:

A) wishes nothing but the best for ben and his future endeavors. i'd love to see some new S bikes out there getting used, and i bet everyone else here would too, but

B) is not ready to plunk down a hefty deposit and hope it works out.

Thank you for clarifying this early on before we get a dozen replies asking why everyone in the old Serotta forum is so intent on attacking the new company.

[Black Dog]

Interesting that Ben, who used to sell the carbon Meivici, is now sounding like Grant Petersen.

https://serotta.com/bicycles/scappero-t9

I'm curious to hear more about "Project 559."

https://serotta.com/bicycles/cda20

Project 559 is building with 26" rims for smaller riders. 559 is the diameter (mm) of a 26" rim.

[BobbyJones]

some of the copy on serotta.com already reads like satire.

I wonder whats next.

[William]

...if i were ben, i would have found the absolute best young up and coming cyclists i could convince to come and race for me. build some budget but sexy looking Pronto's and design some killer attention getting kit and go racing.

be literally all over social media with my posse winning local races, doing epic training rides in the Adirondack mountains.

BE the northeast cycling scene. mix it up with the firefly crew, the seven guys, all that stuff. have fun at races. get muddy. do epic, crazy stuff. post post post.

that's the move.

but no one is listening to me :)


That's kind of how he built the brand previously though instead of social media he had dealers in different areas that would offer team discounts to get people racing on them. In Oregon at the time Serotta was highly represented in the racing scene. Successful teams and racers were on them and it was a coveted ride to people up and coming. The Bike Gallery had two or three shops in the PDX area that were pumping them out the door along with shops in Corvallis and Eugene college towns getting racers on them.

These days how many people racing know of Serotta? They will never have the advertising budget of the big box brands, and the high end niche market didn't pan out either. go back to your roots and get someone who knows how to work the social media angle, and make some racer budget friendly models to get the younger racers back on them.

Just my $.02 that no one paid for.:)








W.

[William]

Wasn’t that his downfall originally? Always wondered why he didn’t use the Serotta Forum as a marketing tool. He might still be in business today if he had...



Agree. I never understood why they didn't work the forum either. The one time they did try to do "something" with it..it basically precipitated the split.

Water under the bridge now. I wish Ben nothing but the best, but the recent comunications (or lack of) about his new endeavors hasn't instilled confidence for people to part with their hard earned money imo.






W.

[OtayBW]

living and making bikes in upstate ny is an ideal setting to re-launch a brand.

Covid threw a wrench in the works, but the ideal strategy would have been to take a page from the Sachs playbook.

if i were ben, i would have found the absolute best young up and coming cyclists i could convince to come and race for me. build some budget but sexy looking Pronto's and design some killer attention getting kit and go racing.

be literally all over social media with my posse winning local races, doing epic training rides in the Adirondack mountains.

BE the northeast cycling scene. mix it up with the firefly crew, the seven guys, all that stuff. have fun at races. get muddy. do epic, crazy stuff. post post post.

that's the move.

but no one is listening to me :)Yes, but Pronto is Finito, no?

[Dino Suegiù]

I do not follow the topic much, but has Serotta actually ever built/delivered actual bicycles out of these various recent proposals? Perhaps so, but I do not recall ever seeing any.

It seems that almost all the other similar ventures from other builders (or even a non-builder, such as the CK Cielo) had at least some product actually built and delivered while the venture was up and running, however short-lived.

This Serotta "constant promise with no actual product" thing confuses me. Why do it? What is the goal?

[Black Dog]

I do not follow the topic much, but has Serotta actually ever built/delivered actual bicycles out of these various recent proposals? Perhaps so, but I do not recall ever seeing any.

It seems that almost all the other similar ventures from other builders (or even a non-builder, such as the CK Cielo) had at least some product actually built and delivered while the venture was up and running, however short-lived.

This Serotta "constant promise with no actual product" thing confuses me. Why do it? What is the goal?

Ben did build and deliver his new bikes. There was one the forum. I think clean39 had it in his hands for a short while. Which for him was about normal for a bike. ;). As for CK he built the bikes himself. He is a builder and was before he started making headsets etc.

What Ben is doing with his latest generation of bikes is like a Kickstarter project with even less real info or even a prototype. It’s a head scratcher.

[GOTHBROOKS]

serrote

[PaMtbRider]

I got the email today. I am definitely a Serotta fan boy. I currently have an Ottrott and a CSI. A modern Legend Ti sounds like a wonderful idea and something I would be interested in.

Unfortunately Ben's current brand relaunch isn't very confidence inspiring. The first 100 "limited production" bikes will be available to order through August 31, 2020 or until they are sold out. Typical Ben Serotta. I'm thinking anyone interested in a new Serotta doesn't need to worry about getting their order in tomorrow.

As other have said, how does he differentiate himself from so many other top tier builders? If I was truly in the market for a new "legend Ti" my money would probably be spent with 22bicycles or Firefly.

[rounder]

I know I am biased. My first Serotta was bought when I was trying to decide between an Eddy Merckx and a Serotta. Went with Serotta because that was what Coors Light was riding at the time. Still have the nhx and ciii. They are my favorite bikes.

Met Ben a couple of times and he told me that he would always build steel bikes so long as he was building them. Hope he makes it. I know things are tough for everyone. I would consider buying a new one, but do not need another bike. Good luck Ben.

[Bruce K]

I have owned 4 Serotta over the years.

In order: Concours, Ottrott ST, Concours CX, Meivici.

The Concours went to a forum member. The Ottrott to a good friend.

The other 2 I still have.

If I wanted a new Ti bike I would get a Bedford or a Zanconato (if Mike is doing Ti).

BK

[rccardr]

I’ve owned several Serottas.
Would perhaps be interested in purchasing another.
Have the cash, have the interest.
But find all of this....confusing.
Is there some sort of established direction to what he’s doing that one only finds out through some sort of secret handshake club?
Cuz reading the previous posts and then looking online, I only find press release stuff from maybe January or February talking about upcoming models.
The Serotta.com web site doesn’t give much info, either.
Am I missing something?

[fiamme red]

As other have said, how does he differentiate himself from so many other top tier builders?https://serotta.com/bicycles/modomio-t9

Niente Scuse

No excuses remain. The T9 Modo' is the most talented titanium all-road bicycle ever made. It represents the pinnacle of our absolute obsession with getting the most benefit out of every gram of material as we tailor the fit, feel and function of each bicycle to the only cyclist that matters to us - you. We drop our Mic. Andiamo, the rest is up to you...

To say the Modo' T9 is a titanium frame, risks a great injustice considering what's going on within every frame. Setting a new high mark in titanium engineering, our titanium begins a series of performance enhancements in a condition that most bike builders consider finished. With each process, internal and external, no shortcuts to lower cost or accommodate limited technologies are ever taken. The great grandson of the Serotta Colorado Legend Ti (1993), the ModoT9 has more than 20 years of evolution, thousands of custom bicycles and hundreds of race victories behind it. But most importantly, you can feel it when you ride- responsive, smooth, confidence inspiring.

[fijichf]

Am I the only one clicking for information and being directed to a series dead links on the Serotta website? Not very reassuring.

[charliedid]

That's one hell of a teaser campaign.

[fiamme red]

Ben has had a gig designing city commuter bikes (without fender mounts, interestingly) for Detroit Bikes.

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2020/06/24/detroit-bike-introduces-its-first-e-bike-900-e-sparrow#.XvQQTyhKi70

Detroit Bikes is releasing a new e-bike called the E-Sparrow, a $900 commuter based on its popular Sparrow model. The company's first e-bike, the E-Sparrow features a 36V/250W Bafang rear hub motor...

Detroit launched the pedal-powered Sparrow last year following a sold-out Kickstarter campaign. "The Sparrow was designed by Ben Serotta and a team of industry veterans, and they nailed it — especially with this nationwide recent run on bikes the Sparrow has never been more popular. We've sold everything we have."https://detroitbikes.com/pages/faq

DO ALL BIKES COME WITH OR ACCOMMODATE FENDERS?

All A and B Type models come with fenders included. The USC Cortello and Axel can accommodate a disc brake compatible fender or clip-on style fenders. For the Sparrow we recommend the Planet Bike Speed EZ fenders due to lack of frame mounts for the typical fender style.

[dbnm]

Maybe Serotta and Lemond should build a bike together.

https://lemond.cc/

[ultraman6970]

Are they using the same hosting? :P

Maybe Serotta and Lemond should build a bike together.

https://lemond.cc/

[charliedid]

Ben has had a gig designing city commuter bikes (without fender mounts, interestingly) for Detroit Bikes.

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2020/06/24/detroit-bike-introduces-its-first-e-bike-900-e-sparrow#.XvQQTyhKi70

https://detroitbikes.com/pages/faq

Not surprised.

Detroit are doing good things. I've no personal interest in a $900 townie e-bike but many will.

[jtbadge]

Maybe Serotta and Lemond should build a bike together.

https://lemond.cc/

"Join the waitlist" is miles better than the previous Serotta site, which was taking massive deposits on bikes with next to no information.

[dbnm]

after you enter your email on the lemond.cc site, you get this

"We’ve got you on the list! We will send you an email as soon as we are live and selling the future of cycling."

[charliedid]

after you enter your email on the lemond.cc site, you get this

"We’ve got you on the list! We will send you an email as soon as we are live and selling the future of cycling."

I wonder if he has Graphene lube in the works?

[oldpotatoe]

Niente Scuse

No excuses remain. The T9 Modo' is the most talented titanium all-road bicycle ever made. It represents the pinnacle of our absolute obsession with getting the most benefit out of every gram of material as we tailor the fit, feel and function of each bicycle to the only cyclist that matters to us - you. We drop our Mic. Andiamo, the rest is up to you...


:)

[marciero]

https://serotta.com/bicycles/modomio-t9

Interesting copy. That's a lot of words about "titanium engineering", "performance enhancements", and "processes; internal and external" without saying anything specific. I guess it's all proprietary. I've also never heard an inanimate object described as "talented".

[mcteague]

Copy like this just makes me laugh and totally disregard any offerings. They haven't even made any yet it appears. :confused:

The T9 Modo' is the most talented titanium all-road bicycle ever made

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

Copy like this just makes me laugh and totally disregard any offerings. They haven't even made any yet it appears. :confused:

The T9 Modo' is the most talented titanium all-road bicycle ever made

Tim

Yup, wonder who writes his 'copy':eek:..a few pictures of actual bikes, frames, a road test or two by say the gents at GCN..that would go a long way.

Website literature is easy, frame making, hard. Selling......even harder.

[saab2000]

I've had several Serottas, all of which were made for someone else. This is my current one, though today it's built up differently.

https://live.staticflickr.com/4913/45500504874_ee09c2fa40_z.jpg

I think time has moved on and the Serotta brand won't appeal to a younger buyer. Some brands lose relevance over time and I think Serotta is one of them. It's been out of the spotlight for too long.

There's probably a small market for Ben-built bikes. One-off customs actually built by Ben Serotta. Maybe build up from there but I don't see this brand competing with the likes of Firefly or Mosaic or some of the other newer brands that create some really innovative bikes and probably appeal to a younger crowd.

I can't envision a rebirth of the Serotta of 15-20 years ago. That time has gone.

[R3awak3n]

I don't think there is saving Serotta without a major rebrand. It is just not a "cool" brand anymore and there is too much good stuff out there for it to be just another brand.

I actually think AngryScientist had a few very good points on how to make the brand current again and that will be its glimpse of hope. Otherwise it will end up just like Fat Chance which showed some hope, bikes looked pretty cool but no one is going to pay those prices for a bike that already exists and can get custom.


I will give em this, the website (or shall I call it, webpage) does look modern and nice at first look but its some stock footage in a website template. It is a start though. I really think they need to get a nice designer, for the website and for the bikes. Get some nice paint schemes on there.

Start with this -

https://roadbikeaction.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Coors-Light-Serotta-1.jpg

Modern TI version of this would look amazing and put some press on them.
Then I agree, get some bikes under some cool racers and let em do their thing.


They can't relaunch the brand over and over again. Everytime that happens they are damaging the brand.

[mcteague]

Yup, wonder who writes his 'copy':eek:..a few pictures of actual bikes, frames, a road test or two by say the gents at GCN..that would go a long way.

Website literature is easy, frame making, hard. Selling......even harder.

The whole website is a disaster, so many dead links. Why even put it up if not fully functional? Maybe he knows bikes but I really wonder if business is his thing. And, if website literature is easy what does this result say?

Tim

[saab2000]

Modern TI version of this would look amazing and put some press on them.
Then I agree, get some bikes under some cool racers and let em do their thing.


They can't relaunch the brand over and over again. Everytime that happens they are damaging the brand.

As to the racers, I sort of agree. Road racing in the US is practically dead. It's a tiny niche. If I were road racing in 2020 I wouldn't be looking for a Serotta.

I'd hit the gravel racing market. That's a far more inclusive group of people and a much broader spectrum of cyclists. Those events are still growing in popularity and the vibe is totally different from the racing market.

Let's face it, the kids who might pin on a number in road racing have likely never even heard of Serotta in the context of racing. It hasn't really been a relevant racing brand in what, at least 20 years? Today's relevant road race bikes are all carbon fiber from brands that have been continuously active at the highest level for many years.

[Germany_chris]

I think the CDA is a pretty outstanding looking bike and $7600 isn't out of line, however I want to see if they have some staying power before I spend the money.

[R3awak3n]

As to the racers, I sort of agree. Road racing in the US is practically dead. It's a tiny niche. If I were road racing in 2020 I wouldn't be looking for a Serotta.

I'd hit the gravel racing market. That's a far more inclusive group of people and a much broader spectrum of cyclists. Those events are still growing in popularity and the vibe is totally different from the racing market.

Let's face it, the kids who might pin on a number in road racing have likely never even heard of Serotta in the context of racing. It hasn't really been a relevant racing brand in what, at least 20 years? Today's relevant road race bikes are all carbon fiber from brands that have been continuously active at the highest level for many years.


Absolutely, get the bikes under all sorts of racers. gravel, road, it doesn't matter as long as they are showing up to the "cool" events.

Look at Colin Strickland who won DK last year on the allied, he is everywhere now and so is the bike, the same goes for a ton of other guys/girls. Then there is also people like the vegan cyclist who is now on canyons and he is always promoting the bikes. It really is cheap advertising and the kind of ads people want to see.

[Hellgate]

While he has a storied past, and his bike were wonderful, time has moved on and there are so many other builders to choose from.

[A1A]

Don't want to turn this into another reminiscing but don't think I've commented much on Ben over the years. Started riding around 1983 in upstate NY. Got more serious and bought a used Nova Special from a local mechanic in 1986 which was my first nice bike. The one with the funky rear deraileur cable guide on top of the bottom bracket shell that was really cool looking but seemed retro even back then. Even went to see Ben give a frame building presentation at "The Bicycle Source" in Utica in I believe 1987, first time I met him. Visited the original factory (not counting the barn) in Middle Grove in either 87' or 88'. Then in 1990 the owner of the shop sold me his 1987 Colorado, the first gen with the fillet brazed bottom bracket for the seat tube and down tube. The first time I had seen the bike (he had it at a local race) it took my breath away. I was thrilled and thought it just couldn't get any better. Still have it. Rode and raced the Colorado and Nova through the 90's, stopped in at the Fort Edward factory a couple times in that huge bombed out old factory building they rented space in. Then about the time the new Saratoga plant opened up in 2001 I bought a used Hor's Categorie that is still my daily driver. I call it "Old Faithful". Must have at least 80k miles on it. Some of my fondest memories were of the new Saratoga factory open house weekends when you got to tour the factory, ride with all sorts of cool people including Ben and Ron Kiefel and Serotta Pete. I missed the final year when Davis Phinney was there. At least one year they even had kraft beer in Serotta labeled bottles and six pack cartons. I still have some empties and a carton. Ben was always very approachable and easy to talk with. But the vibe definitely changed over the years. The late 80's Middle Grove factory had a very performance / racing feel to it. All about competition. Fort Edward kind of the same but changing a little as prices went up and the clientele changed accordingly. The early 2,000's seemed lower keyed, older, able to afford the $6k to $10k price of entry for a new bike. I remember the first time I saw the new factory and with part of what I do for a living to pay my bikes involving cost analysis thinking, "what's the monthly nut on this puppy", i.e. how many frames a year ya' gotta sell to keep right side up. The short answer being too many I guess...

[oldpotatoe]

The whole website is a disaster, so many dead links. Why even put it up if not fully functional? Maybe he knows bikes but I really wonder if business is his thing. And, if website literature is easy what does this result say?

Tim

v2(3?)

Speaks volumes, IMHO

[Toeclips]

Starting to sound like a eulogy

From what I saw on the web site it reflects what I read about he losing the rights to his SEROTTA brand name

For one, his name SEROTTA on the web site is shown as non italicized, not slanted like what we are used to seeing

Also he can't use the same decals, the slanting Serotta, it's now replaced with the model make on the down tube and Serotta in script near the bottom bracket

That shows copyright enforcement meaning he sold his brand name when he sold the company, which means he lost the Serotta look

From there it seems so uphill, for me to buy a new Serotta it would have to resemble what I have come to expect from Serotta

A good looking bike that is as smooth as glass

[Doug Fattic]

I'm a frame builder that has been making/painting frames as long as Ben. Any business plan to make a profit in today's market is super challenging. Starting out is going to require lot of capital and where is that going to come from? There are marketing expenses + all the equipment to make a frame in a time effective manner will cost a lot. The only way I can see how this can be successful is if Ben himself makes custom frames one at a time in a shed/garage/shop on his premises to supplement his social security check. My guess as to what is going on, is that he is putting out feelers to estimate the market and, based on that, will try to somehow get the capital he needs to get off the ground. If I was to place a bet (and I don't bet) I would not expect this exploration to start up again to succeed (except if he chooses to do so on a very small personal scale). I'm going to state the obvious here but the ratio of profit to hours of labor required, cost of machinery needed + necessary marketing expenses is not favorable. If Ben isn't willing to do it as a labor of love, this is a lost cause. He does have the advantage of name recognition from owners that loved his bikes from the past. And if he marketed towards the old guys his age that now require a more upright position with higher handlebars (a look that gets mocked on this site) he might have some possibilities with limited numbers. Some guys now many pounds heavier and a lot less flexible than they were will never ever be able to ride in the racing position that looks cool in marketing pictures .

[Keith A]

Doug -- thanks for your sharing your insights on this :)

[charliedid]

I'm a frame builder that has been making/painting frames as long as Ben. Any business plan to make a profit in today's market is super challenging. Starting out is going to require lot of capital and where is that going to come from? There are marketing expenses + all the equipment to make a frame in a time effective manner will cost a lot. The only way I can see how this can be successful is if Ben himself makes custom frames one at a time in a shed/garage/shop on his premises to supplement his social security check. My guess as to what is going on, is that he is putting out feelers to estimate the market and, based on that, will try to somehow get the capital he needs to get off the ground. If I was to place a bet (and I don't bet) I would not expect this exploration to start up again to succeed (except if he chooses to do so on a very small personal scale). I'm going to state the obvious here but the ratio of profit to hours of labor required, cost of machinery needed + necessary marketing expenses is not favorable. If Ben isn't willing to do it as a labor of love, this is a lost cause. He does have the advantage of name recognition from owners that loved his bikes from the past. And if he marketed towards the old guys his age that now require a more upright position with higher handlebars (a look that gets mocked on this site) he might have some possibilities with limited numbers. Some guys now many pounds heavier and a lot less flexible than they were will never ever be able to ride in the racing position that looks cool in marketing pictures .

On the other hand maybe the road bike for geezers should be fully reimagined for those who can no longer ride in a sporting position. Just jacking up a modern geo road bike makes for a less than stellar ride quality. Horrible really. Terrible even.

A Titanium Schwinn Continental would at least look better :)

[Doug Fattic]

On the other hand maybe the road bike for geezers should be fully reimagined for those who can no longer ride in a sporting position. Just jacking up a modern geo road bike makes for a less than stellar ride quality. Horrible really. Terrible even.

A Titanium Schwinn Continental would at least look better :)Here is a bicycle I made for myself to ride the new MUT just opened near my place. I made the frame to show my 2 frame building class students how it is done before they did it themselves. Its geometry has no relation to a sport frame and is based on Dutch style frames and very similar to a Chicago built Schwinn suburban. I can still ride my road bikes just fine but this bike is great when I want to get a bit of fresh air without having to put on my cycling kit. I can comfortably ride more slowly in my jeans. This design works great for those that have given up their dream of wining the Tour on their old racing bicycle. I put it together with stuff I mostly had laying around. If I wanted to advertise it, I could improve component and accessory choices.

Another niche market that has been hinted at in earlier posts and that is for the women's market. Production frames are almost always less than optimum for normal to short women because they insist on using 700c wheels. Because lawyers have more influence than fitters, frames are designed with toe clearance. For a variety of reasons using smaller 559 wheels (26" mountain) allows for a better fit for a wider variety of women.

Another big andvantage Ben has is his fitting system and knowledge to help him design one-off custom frames.

[jimcav]

Start with this -

https://roadbikeaction.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Coors-Light-Serotta-1.jpg

Modern TI version of this would look amazing and put some press on them.
Then I agree, get some bikes under some cool racers and let em do their thing.
.


My 2nd real bike was a '93 Coors Light team replica (1st was '86 Nishiki tri-A). I still have it even though I can no longer ride in road position.

I can see the criticism of a website with no actual product pics, but the general level of animus in many posts seems unwarranted unless all those negative posts were people burned by having bikes in que when serotta went under, or likewise negative actual purchase with the prior relaunch.

There have to be thousands of us out there with fond memories of serotta who might be interested, once actual product pics are up. I'd at least give him time to get to that point before piling on the negativity.

[Burnette]

My 2nd real bike was a '93 Coors Light team replica (1st was '86 Nishiki tri-A). I still have it even though I can no longer ride in road position.

I can see the criticism of a website with no actual product pics, but the general level of animus in many posts seems unwarranted unless all those negative posts were people burned by having bikes in que when serotta went under, or likewise negative actual purchase with the prior relaunch.

There have to be thousands of us out there with fond memories of serotta who might be interested, once actual product pics are up. I'd at least give him time to get to that point before piling on the negativity.

Once you enter (or attempt to in this case) the market, scrutiny by consumers comes with the package.

And let's be honest here, the fits and starts and underwhelming execution of the effort is real. Ben will be judged like any other. I get the nostalgia for some but as many have said, that doesn't have the impact and draw it once did. And for those who don't share those memories it's an even tougher sell when your effort is seriously lacking. There's no shortage of new bicycle options, in fact the market is saturated.

In my opinion it seems like a last attempt to cash in on the name and whoever is organizing and promoting it looks to be phoning it in.

Even when selling nostalgia, you have to deliver.

[charliedid]

Here is a bicycle I made for myself to ride the new MUT just opened near my place. I made the frame to show my 2 frame building class students how it is done before they did it themselves. Its geometry has no relation to a sport frame and is based on Dutch style frames and very similar to a Chicago built Schwinn suburban. I can still ride my road bikes just fine but this bike is great when I want to get a bit of fresh air without having to put on my cycling kit. I can comfortably ride more slowly in my jeans. This design works great for those that have given up their dream of wining the Tour on their old racing bicycle. I put it together with stuff I mostly had laying around. If I wanted to advertise it, I could improve component and accessory choices.

Another niche market that has been hinted at in earlier posts and that is for the women's market. Production frames are almost always less than optimum for normal to short women because they insist on using 700c wheels. Because lawyers have more influence than fitters, frames are designed with toe clearance. For a variety of reasons using smaller 559 wheels (26" mountain) allows for a better fit for a wider variety of women.

Another big andvantage Ben has is his fitting system and knowledge to help him design one-off custom frames.

Hey Doug

That's all good and totally valid but I do think the market is fairly saturated for Townie style bikes but who knows...

I was thinking more of a legacy road bike customer who still thinks riding a bike is putting on kit and riding a drop bar bike. In this case, one with slack angles (a la Continental et al) level TT made every CM (custom if you will) to keep within the framework and style of road bikes. It's not so much re-envisioning as much as it is reimagining the past bikes that of course made sense for a ton of people. Not the quickest or best handling bikes but for this demographic I don't think that's a negative.

If Ben really wants to make a buck the truth is he should design and sell pedal assist bikes.

At least he is still turning the cranks...