General sort of fit question for a guy with a wonky back

[veggieburger]

So here’s the thing – as I get older, I want to be more upright, but naturally my leg length doesn’t change. Up until this point, I have been riding a 58.5 c2c square frame, because that’s what’s generally out there. On a horizontal top tube, this works and looks fine. On a sloping top tube, it looks like a clown bike – loooong seatpost and an uncut fork with oodles of spacers, then a flipped stem with a steep upwards angle.

I still want to go fast, but I need my back to not ache after a 2-hour ride.

I guess my question is – do you know of an off-the-rack manufacturer that has a “tall and narrow” bike? I have to think that this is a common issue with folks as they get old. Or do I bite the bullet and treat myself to something custom?

thanks!

[robt57]

Try narrower bars with less drop first I'd suggest. More upright means bumps compress your shocks [discs] more each hit too. There are also some cush tricks, bigger tire best of them. Tranz-x anti shock stems, P6 Flexpost or CG-R Spesh post may help too.

[Dave]

Modern bikes are all sized by stack and reach. The head tube length gives you some idea of stack.

Most important to post is your actual saddle height and saddle to bar drop, plus the stem length and bar reach you're using.

There are a lot of endurance frames out there with taller head tubes and stack height, to help reduce saddle to bar drop, without using a lot of spacers or a high rise stem.

Getting the bars up to your saddle height may be a problem.

[robt57]

Getting the bars up to your saddle height may be a problem.

And may not be the answer. Although nobody is unsympathetic to wanting to about anything to say active and riding here on PL for sure. For me lowering helped me more that the slow raise I was doing from about 57 years old to about 61 years old.

[bjf]

Serotta made lots of custom bikes with shorter top tubes and longer head tubes. I have found several of them on eBay.

[NYCfixie]

So here’s the thing – as I get older, I want to be more upright, but naturally my leg length doesn’t change. Up until this point, I have been riding a 58.5 c2c square frame, because that’s what’s generally out there. On a horizontal top tube, this works and looks fine. On a sloping top tube, it looks like a clown bike – loooong seatpost and an uncut fork with oodles of spacers, then a flipped stem with a steep upwards angle.

I still want to go fast, but I need my back to not ache after a 2-hour ride.

I guess my question is – do you know of an off-the-rack manufacturer that has a “tall and narrow” bike? I have to think that this is a common issue with folks as they get old. Or do I bite the bullet and treat myself to something custom?

thanks!

I believe the Trek Domane has the highest stack ratio (head tube height to top tube length) per size in a stock frame. It also allows for a 28mm tire with rim brakes.

I have heard great things about the Specialized Hover Expert Alloy Handlebars – 15mm Rise (https://www.specialized.com/us/en/hover-expert-alloy-handlebars--15mm-rise/p/156001?color=230548-156001&searchText=21017-2036). They have both rise and a shorter reach than most bars.

Obviously custom will get you exactly what you need/want. I gave up caring about what my bike looks like a long time ago. I have a custom Seven with a tall HT, short ST, and correct length TT for my size (long torso, short arms, and short legs = stock frames do not fit).



Try narrower bars with less drop first I'd suggest. More upright means bumps compress your shocks [discs] more each hit too. There are also some cush tricks, bigger tire best of them. Tranz-x anti shock stems, P6 Flexpost or CG-R Spesh post may help too.

Less drop (and reach) will help but I think you might be wrong about narrower bars. While technically it will bring the arms in closer to each-other thus raising the person up, it might also have a detrimental effect in that the bars are no longer a good fit. Bars should be chosen by shoulder size for best fit and comfort.

As too back disc pain, if a person is bent over too much, that can cause a different kind of back pain and long term issue. Again, while technically a person being more upright may cause disc pain, that is often only when there is a pre-existing condition otherwise you would see every one who rides a MTB or cruiser or hybrid in pain all the time.

And yes, bigger tires with less pressure is one of the best ideas to help with overall comfort yet not casue any efficiency issues.

[ultraman6970]

My take to the problem :)

If the back hurts but the bike feels ok just wonder if you have a problem with the saddle angle? or the back and forth position? IME sometimes you have to mode from what you are used to when going in those new sloped bikes carbon (imagine yours is carbon?). Some bikes like to have you seated in some specific way or the handling is going to be affected badly, same with power under force (not that i can put a lot of power, because so far i only have mosquito power), or even if you want to spin. In steel for some reason pretty much everything is the same, same as AL, but when carbon the things for me change a little bit.

Just a thought, did you try getting the stem like 5 mm lower? Sounds crazy I know, but that will shift some weight off the back to the front.

[Dave]

And may not be the answer. Although nobody is unsympathetic to wanting to about anything to say active and riding here on PL for sure. For me lowering helped me more that the slow raise I was doing from about 57 years old to about 61 years old.

I agree. At 67, I use the same 10cm saddle to bar drop that I did 12 years ago. I got back on my bike after an 8 year hiatus and had no problem with it.

My latest bike has a 10mm taller stack than the old one, so I use no spacers and a -17 stem.

[buddybikes]

Check dimensions of Lynskey Touring, I got this for my wet/off season use (2 back fusions here).

I personally like about 1-2cm drop. I used to ride a 57 tt, now 55.5 is comfy with same 110 stem

[veggieburger]

Thanks to all of you!! When I was younger, I would tweak saddle height and stem angle/length until it just intuitively felt right. Now...age is changing the way I ride. Again, thanks!

[giordana93]

Thanks to all of you!! When I was younger, I would tweak saddle height and stem angle/length until it just intuitively felt right. Now...age is changing the way I ride. Again, thanks!

most road bikes today that aren't marketed as pure racing models tend to have a shorter top tube/taller head tube than in the past. They call this endurance geometry and it's ubiquitous and might work better. I have a theory that people started to fit people on women specific geometry (for longer legs/shorter torsos) and someone had a eureka moment and marketing genius of endurance geometry.

Not that that is any help to you. I too still have a long and low geometry in my mid 50s; climbing alot can bother my back but I'm in flat Louisiana now so that's not an issue, but I'm in the camp of believing that the knee jerk reaction of shorter/taller fit is often wrong. You can't stretch out your back and end up curling it, which is the problem. One huge caveat comes along with that, you can't go long and low if you have tight hamstrings or a saddle too high because you can't roll your hips forward. This is exacerbated by a shorter taller reach because you take tension out of your hamstrings with the taller/shorter reach (not bending at hip) but when the time comes to drop the hammer, what do you do? bend over, try to get low, fight those now even tighter hammies. It is a little hard to visualize until you see it and finally get it, but try either stretching or dropping the saddle just a hair (3mm or so) and see. Or at least evaluate that you're not at the max saddle height already when you're in your "easy" pedaling position (upright, hips not rolled forward). If you are, you'll always work over your back when you do "assume the position" and do harder rides

[Ken Robb]

most road bikes today that aren't marketed as pure racing models tend to have a shorter top tube/taller head tube than in the past. They call this endurance geometry and it's ubiquitous and might work better. I have a theory that people started to fit people on women specific geometry (for longer legs/shorter torsos) and someone had a eureka moment and marketing genius of endurance geometry.

Not that that is any help to you. I too still have a long and low geometry in my mid 50s; climbing alot can bother my back but I'm in flat Louisiana now so that's not an issue, but I'm in the camp of believing that the knee jerk reaction of shorter/taller fit is often wrong. You can't stretch out your back and end up curling it, which is the problem. One huge caveat comes along with that, you can't go long and low if you have tight hamstrings or a saddle too high because you can't roll your hips forward. This is exacerbated by a shorter taller reach because you take tension out of your hamstrings with the taller/shorter reach (not bending at hip) but when the time comes to drop the hammer, what do you do? bend over, try to get low, fight those now even tighter hammies. It is a little hard to visualize until you see it and finally get it, but try either stretching or dropping the saddle just a hair (3mm or so) and see. Or at least evaluate that you're not at the max saddle height already when you're in your "easy" pedaling position (upright, hips not rolled forward). If you are, you'll always work over your back when you do "assume the position" and do harder rides
"Drop the hammer" has been absent from my cycling vocabulary for at least 20 years. My problem with long/low stems from arthritis in my neck which makes it impossible for me to look up and down the road unless my bars are higher than my saddle.

[robt57]

I agree. At 67, I use the same 10cm saddle to bar drop that I did 12 years ago. I got back on my bike after an 8 year hiatus and had no problem with it.

My latest bike has a 10cm taller stack than the old one, so I use no spacers and a -17 stem.


The size of my spare tire seems to alter it more. Luckily it is small currently after a big weight loss end of 2018. Now low stack with
no gut in the way I can actually breath when in the drops. ;)

[NYCfixie]

"Drop the hammer" has been absent from my cycling vocabulary for at least 20 years. My problem with long/low stems from arthritis in my neck which makes it impossible for me to look up and down the road unless my bars are higher than my saddle.

The size of my spare tire seems to alter it more. Luckily it is small currently after a big weight loss end of 2018. Now low stack with
no gut in the way I can actually breath when in the drops. ;)

I think the biggest problem with fit issues, especially when asking an internet forum for advice, is that people share what works for their body type but that might have nothing to do with the OPs body type and/or fit issues. We are all unique and thus each need different "fits". No one solution (i.e. long and low, short and tall, in-between) is going to work for everyone. To the OP, I would suggest working with a fitter you trust who knows how to deal with your specific needs as that will get you to the best outcome.

[robt57]

I think the biggest problem with fit issues, especially when asking an internet forum for advice, is that people share what works for their body type but that might have nothing to do with the OPs body type and/or fit issues.

Folks post anecdotal experience more than advice. In my case hoping there might be a take away that adds value to the quest.

I personally have read/heard many many poor fit experiences from 'experts'. Although here might be a very good place to attain references for this.

A lot of the time, and again anecdotal, a newish rider has too few miles of body evolution rolling/riding. Just too soon in a way to be fit yet? [figuratively]

But as with skiing lessons for example as one progresses a good teacher [fitter] goes from each new starting point I suppose.

I have said many a time for me it was like 10k before my body really acclimated to a fast road position. Point being not every one espouses to this goal should be well taken. I tend to forget this.

[ariw]

I have been fused at L5/S1 for about 10 years, so my position has changed from the good old days. I have recovered flexibility fairly well, but there are limits. When I bought my C60 several years ago, I had a Guru fit done, and I ended up lower, but with a shorter reach. This has been excellent from a comfort/performance perspective, and I have since transferred that fit to my other road bikes. Not sure if this helps, but it is another idea to try.

-Ari