Installing a threadless headset with Park headset press

[old_fat_and_slow]

So I've decided to freshen up one of my old steeds from a one inch threaded fork and headset to a one inch threadless fork and headset. I've been planning on doing this for a few years, but now with the Covid crisis, I have a little more time on my hands.

I've never installed a headset either threaded or threadless before. I managed to get the old threaded headset cups out and the old fork off. I will be installing a new Campy Record threadless (not a hidden set) headset.

I bought a Park headset press (the big one) several years ago in anticipation of this job. I finally opened the box yesterday, and the instructions are woefully minimalist. I tried the Park website. It wasn't much better.

I've watched a lot of installations on YouTube basically using a long bolt with several flat washers. Seems pretty easy. Unfortunately, I can't find any videos showing how to use the Park press except for an extremely short promotional video put out by Park that was not very helpful.

However, most videos show the cups being installed one at a time. The Park instructions seem to suggest you press both upper and lower cups in at the same time.

I would feel more comfortable installing one cup at a time, but it is not clear if I can do this with the Park headset press. I think if I turn the guide cups upside down on one end (the end I am not installing the cup) I might be able to do that.

Any Park Headset press pros out there? Do you install both cups in one shot? Is it possible to install one side first and then the second?

This is a Ti frame if that matters.

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

[DfCas]

I do one at a time with my Park headset press. Too much going on with 2 loose cups. Actually i get one well started then start the other as they will both reach their fully seated position.

[DeBike]

This may not help you, but, I have an Xtools headset press I purchased from Chain Reaction and used it for the first time about month ago. I think it is similar to the Park tool. It did not have instructions but I did watch a couple of videos on Youtube that were not specific to this tool. This press is designed to press both cups at the same time. It was no problem, pretty straight forward to figure out. It also can do different size cups.This was with a 1 1/8" threadless headset, Cane Creek 40. I just greased the insert area of the cups, took my time cranking down the press, and made sure the cups were installing on the level. It was very easy.

I have also done a couple of 1" threaded headsets with the homemade tool I saw on a Rick the Bike Guy video. That was one cup at a time and it took a few tries to get the cups to start on the level. Actually, the first attempt, I thought it was inserting fine, but when it got to the point of being fully inserted into the tube, it was not level. I had to bang it back out and start again. It worked out in the end, just took more time and care.

After that experience, I found the Xtools on sale and purchased it, $59. Definitely easier, more efficient than the homemade one. I am a long way from being an adept, efficient mechanic. You can do this.

[Pinned]

The Park HHP-2 headset press is the best one in my opinion, it offers a ton of leverage and makes this job easy.

I start with the top cup, here are the steps I'd use assuming you've got the HHP-2:

1. Apply a generous amount of grease inside the headtube where the cup will go and to the outside of the upper headset cup.
2. Screw the hex shaft into the handle and drop it through the top of the headset / headtube.
3. Slide the quick release press plate onto the hex shaft.
4. Adjust the headset cup so it is in the orientation you want (if it has logos and such) and so that it is as flat as you can get it.
5. Start turning, stop turning when they headset is fully seated (you'll know, the handles just won't turn).
6. Release QR press plate and repeat step 1. for bottom headset cup.
7. Repeat steps 3-5.

If you've got headset cups that the bearings are pressed into you want to avoid any pressure on the bearings during install. In this situation I avoid all the adapters and just leave the upper and lower press plates flat on the headset cups, you won't damage them unless you are going way overboard after seating the headset.

[old_fat_and_slow]

Still looking for more advice. Has to be more users out there.

Thanks again.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Still looking for more advice. Has to be more users out there.

Thanks again.

Lots of good info here and you said you watched several videos. What exactly are you not feeling confident about?

I understand being a hands-on visual learner. I have to think if you were in the room watching someone install a headset you'd have it down. Where are you located?

Have you installed the crown race? Do you have a setter or is it a split race that can be pushed on?

[hummus_aquinas]

I like putting a piece of painters tape on the headtube to ensure alignment of the logo. Kinda unnecessary if you don't really care anyway.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49872360802_28cf08493b_h.jpg

[slowpoke]

I like putting a piece of painters tape on the headtube to ensure alignment of the logo. Kinda unnecessary if you don't really care anyway.

If that's yours, congrats on the new LB!

[hummus_aquinas]

Thanks! It's the Evasion (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=253238)!
If that's yours, congrats on the new LB!

[davidb]

Hmm. no functional difference. You have the top cup in the bottom. Hence the "king" logo upside down. Maybe you were going for that look?

[zmudshark]

Hmm. no functional difference. You have the top cup in the bottom. Hence the "king" logo upside down. Maybe you were going for that look?I was wonder the same thing.

[slowpoke]

Thanks! It's the Evasion (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=253238)!

Whoops, got my centaurs and mermaids mixed up!

Hmm. no functional difference. You have the top cup in the bottom. Hence the "king" logo upside down. Maybe you were going for that look?

It's definitely a look--CK even sells a t-shirt (https://chrisking.com/products/t-shirt-upsidedown-king-indigo-lg).

[davidb]

We have all done it or something like that.

[charliedid]

The Park HHP-2 headset press is the best one in my opinion, it offers a ton of leverage and makes this job easy.

I start with the top cup, here are the steps I'd use assuming you've got the HHP-2:

1. Apply a generous amount of grease inside the headtube where the cup will go and to the outside of the upper headset cup.
2. Screw the hex shaft into the handle and drop it through the top of the headset / headtube.
3. Slide the quick release press plate onto the hex shaft.
4. Adjust the headset cup so it is in the orientation you want (if it has logos and such) and so that it is as flat as you can get it.
5. Start turning, stop turning when they headset is fully seated (you'll know, the handles just won't turn).
6. Release QR press plate and repeat step 1. for bottom headset cup.
7. Repeat steps 3-5.

If you've got headset cups that the bearings are pressed into you want to avoid any pressure on the bearings during install. In this situation I avoid all the adapters and just leave the upper and lower press plates flat on the headset cups, you won't damage them unless you are going way overboard after seating the headset.

Sounds good to me....but I have to say I have never done one cup at a time and don't think I have ever watched anyone do it that way?

What gives?

[FriarQuade]

Any press can be used to install both at a time or one at a time.

The biggest thing is to make sure the cups go in square. This is A LOT easier doing cups one at a time. You don't want them to start going in crocked and then straighten out, this will damage the cup and potentially the frame.

Doesn't hurt to put a set of calipers to everything and make sure it's all within spec before you start.

Use anti seize instead of grease for ti frames.

[oldpotatoe]

Sounds good to me....but I have to say I have never done one cup at a time and don't think I have ever watched anyone do it that way?

What gives?

I have only if the head tube is so long, the Park Tool wasn't long enough. Biggest deal tho is make sure the tool pushes against the cups, not against the bearings if there are any in there(like CK)..use the inserts to push against the inside of the cups, like with Campag, since they are aluminum...

For the OP or anybody else.

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/threadless-headset-service

[charliedid]

I have only if the head tube is so long, the Park Tool wasn't long enough. Biggest deal tho is make sure the tool pushes against the cups, not against the bearings if there are any in there(like CK)..use the inserts to push against the inside of the cups, like with Campag, since they are aluminum...

For the OP or anybody else.

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/threadless-headset-service

Got it, I see.

[charliedid]

Any press can be used to install both at a time or one at a time.

The biggest thing is to make sure the cups go in square. This is A LOT easier doing cups one at a time. You don't want them to start going in crocked and then straighten out, this will damage the cup and potentially the frame.

Doesn't hurt to put a set of calipers to everything and make sure it's all within spec before you start.

Use anti seize instead of grease for ti frames.

Fair enough, thanks.

[bikinchris]

Do not install a threaded fork with a threadless headset.

[old_fat_and_slow]

Do not install a threaded fork with a threadless headset.

Don't mean to be too rude, but thanks Captain Obvious. I don't think this is even possible.

[ntb1001]

Don't mean to be too rude, but thanks Captain Obvious. I don't think this is even possible.




Actually...I think it very possible.
For what I know you can install 1” thread less headset and cut fork to length like any other. Chances are that you’ll be clamping the handlebar stem to a threaded portion though, I really don’t know if it’s a bad idea or not.


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[Dino Suegiù]

Actually...I think it very possible.
For what I know you can install 1” thread less headset and cut fork to length like any other. Chances are that you’ll be clamping the handlebar stem to a threaded portion though, I really don’t know if it’s a bad idea or not.
It is a documented bad idea.

A threaded steerer wall is not designed for or thick enough to withstand the compressive clamping forces of a threadless stem, especially under load. I have no idea why anyone would ever do that (not implying that you would).

[ntb1001]

It is a documented bad idea.

A threaded steerer wall is not designed for or thick enough to withstand the compressive clamping forces of a threadless stem, especially under load. I have no idea why anyone would ever do that (not implying that you would).



I have no desire myself to do it...I’ve just heard it’s possible.
I think I remember reading one time about a threaded fork from a large frame used threadless on a smaller frame so that when cut down there were no threads left.
Either way...not something I would do.


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[MikeD]

It is a documented bad idea.

A threaded steerer wall is not designed for or thick enough to withstand the compressive clamping forces of a threadless stem, especially under load. I have no idea why anyone would ever do that (not implying that you would).


Documented where? I've heard the reverse because an unthreaded steerer isn't thick enough to accommodate threads. You don't want to compress in a threaded area though.

[Mark McM]

It is a documented bad idea.

A threaded steerer wall is not designed for or thick enough to withstand the compressive clamping forces of a threadless stem, especially under load. I have no idea why anyone would ever do that (not implying that you would).

I would guess the opposite would be true. A threaded steerer has to be thick enough to be threaded. A threaded steerer also has to withstand the expanding forces of the quill expander - expanders frequently only press against the front and back of the steerer, rather than the having the uniform compression of a threadless stem. Threaded steers have walls about 1/6" thick. I've seen (and used) threadless steel steers that were much thinner than that.

[Dino Suegiù]

I think both are true (or false, depending on pov). Mixing is a bad idea either way, so why do it? There is zero advantage to the thing.

But, if someone wants to clamp a 120mm threadless stem onto the threaded portion of their steel steerer, and exert their full 150/250# lever load onto that jerry-rigged assembly in a sprint, have at it. I just pray not to be riding next to, nor next to hand-crimped seat stays, etc. Dumb ideas imo.

[ColonelJLloyd]

But, if someone wants to clamp a 120mm threadless stem onto the threaded portion of their steel steerer, and exert their full 150/250# lever load onto that jerry-rigged assembly in a sprint, have at it. I just pray not to be riding next to, nor next to hand-crimped seat stays, etc. Dumb ideas imo.

Did anyone in this thread advocate that? Seems to be you're making an assumption that is pretty antithetical to basic common sense.

[AngryScientist]

So I've decided to freshen up one of my old steeds from a one inch threaded fork and headset to a one inch threadless fork and headset.

you guys are off the rails. the OP is asking for advice on installing threadless headset cups and clearly stated he is swapping to a threadless fork as well. i dont know where all the commentary about using a threaded fork in a threadless set-up are coming from, but it has nothing to do with this thread.

on topic: every headset i have installed, i do one cup at a time. aside from taking a few more minutes, i see no downside in going individually. there are less variables to balance that way, especially for the home mechanic who may do this a few times in their lifetime.

lots of grease, yes. go slow.

[Dino Suegiù]

Did anyone in this thread advocate that? Seems to be you're making an assumption that is pretty antithetical to basic common sense.

No, nobody advocated for it, just against it.
IE common sense not to use a threaded steerer with a threadless stem regardless. What that's point?

But to be more precise about not offending anyone here:
I myself personally would not do it, but at the risk of offending others I also will insist: never mind me, of course do whatever you want with your bicycle and components.
Better?
:rolleyes:

[Dino Suegiù]

i dont know where all the commentary about using a threaded fork in a threadless set-up are coming from, but it has nothing to do with this thread.
Posts #19, #20, #21 specifically and then on from there.

That topic actually appears fairly often in discussions involving this swap-swap subject. NOT advocating, just saying....


PS: please feel free to delete my posts on the subject here. They are in fact not relevant to the op's question at all, and either way I really do not care any more.

[ColonelJLloyd]

No, nobody advocated for it, just against it.
IE common sense not to use a threaded steerer with a threadless stem regardless. What that's point?

I'll take the time to spell it out for you. The point is to have a 1" threadless fork on the bike. 1" threadless forks are far less plentiful than 1" threaded forks.

If you're able to find a threaded fork that with a steerer that is ~50mm longer than your current threaded fork's steerer you cut the threaded portion off, install a star nut, and install it on the bike with the threadless headset. It's not rocket surgery and there is nothing magical about a fork steer tube.

Why you feel like this is somehow dangerous I do not understand.

[Dino Suegiù]

I'll take the time to spell it out for you.

How cavalier of you. :rolleyes:

The point is to have a 1" threadless fork on the bike. 1" threadless forks are far less plentiful than 1" threaded forks.

If you're able to find a threaded fork that with a steerer that is ~50mm longer than your current threaded fork's steerer you cut the threaded portion off, install a star nut, and install it on the bike with the threadless headset. It's not rocket surgery and there is nothing magical about a fork steer tube.

Why you feel like this is somehow dangerous I do not understand.
As already stated I was responding specifically to posts #19, #20, #21 in this thread, wherein the topic of *clamping a threadless stem onto the threaded portion of a threaded steerer* was initially broached/discussed pro/con, and not by me, OK?

What someone else does/risks with their stuff is not my province, but that *specific practice* is in fact potentially dangerous and I think it OK to point out potentially dangerous practice. That's all. Did you lecture David Kirk when he correctly and judiciously warned against crimping one's seatstays in that manner recently, etc?

Whatever hypotheticals have been applied by yourself further on, regarding "If you're able to find...", etc., are not the issue that was broached and that I thought helpful to reply to. If the op finds a mint threaded fork that fits all those criteria and decides to use it after cutting the threaded portion off or, alternatively, buys a brand spanking new 1" WoundUp for threadless, or some custom fork, bully for him, either way. NOT what I was addressing, either way.

[Mark McM]

No, nobody advocated for it, just against it.
IE common sense not to use a threaded steerer with a threadless stem regardless. What that's point?:

No, it is not always common sense. At least not for these two cases:

There have been cases where someone needed a threadless fork but didn't have one, but instead had a threaded fork with an extra long steerer. In that case, they cut the steerer down to size (cutting off the threaded section), and used it as a threadless fork.

There have also been cases where someone had a threadless fork that was a little too short for their frame, but the steerer tube was thicker enough to be threaded. In those cases, threads were cut on the steerer and a threaded headset was used.

Both cases were done in common practice, and safely. I personally had the 2nd case, when I was buying a frame/fork from a shop, and the shop mechanic cut the threadless steerer a little too short. To rectify the situation, they threaded the steerer and a threaded headset and quill stem was used. I've still got that bike, some 25 years later, and the steerer hasn't broken yet.

[Mark McM]

Back the original question: I've always pressed in both cups simultaneously, and here's why:

Cups should be pressed in straight, so the press tool needs to be aligned with the head tube. My press tools came with bushings that closely fit the cups, so that the press is aligned with the cup. But the press don't didn't come with a bushing to align the other end of the tool with the open head tube. So, by pressing both cups at the sae time, I use bushings on both ends to keep the press tool aligned with both cups (and the head tube).

[parris]

I'm probably going to get the pitchforks and torches for this one...

The last 3 headsets I installed i did with my big bench vise. The reason was simple... I cant find my freaking headset press!

[ntb1001]

I'm probably going to get the pitchforks and torches for this one...

The last 3 headsets I installed i did with my big bench vise. The reason was simple... I cant find my freaking headset press!




I’ll top your vise...I’ve only used a big rubber mallet...works great!!


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[ColonelJLloyd]

I'm probably going to get the pitchforks and torches for this one...

The last 3 headsets I installed i did with my big bench vise. The reason was simple... I cant find my freaking headset press!

Ha. You either ride small frames or have one big vise.

[parris]

It's a pretty good size vise. I ride 56 and some of them have longish head tubes.

[m_sasso]

If you have proper size drifts, a good quality bench vise is a near perfect alternative to a specialized commercial headset press.

[old_fat_and_slow]

I’ll top your vise...I’ve only used a big rubber mallet...works great!!


Well gee... there I was frettin' about how to use the dang headset press properly.
Heck, all the pressure's off now, just use a big rubber mallet. ;)

[parris]

I thought about using a wooden mallet before realizing that my vise might be big enough. When I realized it was I was surprised just how well it worked. The size of the jaws made for easy alignment and soft jaw inserts kept things neat.

Sometimes you get lucky.

[ntb1001]

Well gee... there I was frettin' about how to use the dang headset press properly.
Heck, all the pressure's off now, just use a big rubber mallet. ;)


Sounds very rudimentary...but very effective.

I use a punch for the crown race to tap it in place, and the rubber mallet on the cups.
Works well for me.


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[Dino Suegiù]

Somewhat related to the original topic (1" threaded fork and headset to a 1" threadless fork and headset) this is a good video, albeit 1" to 1 1/8".
(If the person who made the video is a member here: bravo, very well done.)

I am not familiar with the "innicycle" product, but the solution looks sound for those with 1" threaded forks who need to add more height to the steerer.

innicycle 1" Threaded to 1 1/8" Threadless Conversion Headset Full Installation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOlHzF64kmg)

He installs 1 cup at a time, fwiw.

[Joejack951]

(If the person who made the video is a member here: bravo, very well done.)

Popping over from Bikeforums to say hello.

If you are looking for the guy who filmed and edited the video, that would be my friend Brett at https://onelightimaging.com/

The mechanic is Rob Garrison of https://garrisonscyclery.com/

The guy behind the design of the innicycle headset would be me.

Any other questions? :-)