OT: Kitchen Knife Shapreners?

[redir]

I'm tired of trying to get a perfect sharpening on my kitchen knives. As a wood worker I can sharpen a plane blade or a chisel so that I can shave arm hairs but kitchen knives are a different animal and i just don't get it. Once they are sharp I can hone one really well with a steel honing rod but I have difficulty getting the initial sharpening right.

So I thought hey, cyclists like to eat and as such probably enjoy working in the kitchen as much as I do.

I don't want an electric one. I would prefer manual. I wonder if anyone has any suggestions. I have been looking closely at this one and if anyone has one of these that would be great.

https://brodandtaylor.com/products/professional-knife-sharpener

Regards.

[charlieclick]

I think, to properly sharpen as opposed to honing, you will need to use something electric or manually using a whetstone. I've seen that sharpener advertised and it looks good, but I'm not sure how it actually sharpens.
As you know, you need to create a burr. I'm not sure this is capable.
I'm not a professional. Just a mildly obsessive human.

I use an electric belt sander made for kitchen knives. It's lazier than I would like (which could also be my pseudonym).

Here are some fancy manual ones https://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/ct/guided-sharpening-systems.htm

[Columbus SLX]

I designed some knife sharpener prototypes for Diamond Machining Technology (https://www.dmtsharp.com/)about 10 years ago - they were never produced but I did learn a TON about how to sharpen a knife.

I've come to learn that using their diamond stones will achieve an excellent edge, but to technique is in the angle you hold it at. It should be about 17 degrees, and using a forward push motion on either side of the blade will achieve a knuckle-shaving edge quickly. I only do coarse and fine grades. I find little practical difference in sharpness beyond that.

What those "device-like" sharpeners do is hold that ideal angle for you, but they often make a nails-on-a-blackboard screech. Much more pleasant to use flat stones. My 2¢.

[Veloo]

What kind of knives do you have and what are you currently using?

I use a 1000 grit stone about every month or month and a half myself. Have two Shun Japanese knives and one inexpensive Henkel paring knife. The Japanese knives are a bit more work as they're a harder steel compared to the German knives.

Doesn't come out samurai master sharp but still sharp enough for easy tomato slicing.

[tourmalet]

If you're not using a $900 sharpener, are you even trying?

https://wickededgeusa.com/products/generation-3-pro-new-2017-model

[benb]

Most important thing is to know the angle your knives are sharpened to, and whether they're sharpened on both sides or 1.

Some Japanese knives only get sharpened on one side IIRC, and to a more acute angle. Western style knives get sharpened on both sides, and the angle is less acute.

We have Wusthof knives, we just have the Wusthof sharpener they sell that is foolproof with the angle already set.

I have a Whetstone as well.. that takes a lot more skill, I rarely use it, and only for tool knives, not the expensive kitchen knives. Most tool knives have a much less acute angle than kitchen knives.

Of course make sure you're not cutting on a surface not intended for cutting. Glass, Ceramic, Corian, Granite, etc.. are facepalm level choices for cutting on. You'd think that was common sense but both my parents and my wives parents destroyed nice knives falling for cutting board/surfaces that were completely ridiculous. IMO wood all the way because of it's natural antiseptic properties but plastic is OK on knives too.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Oh, we're gonna open this box in here?

[eippo1]

I have a belt sharpener from Ken Onion. Worked well with my Wusthof knives, but absolutely butchered my Shun. So I recently acquired a whetstone set and will learn how to properly fix the blade to restore the knife.

[redir]

$900 bucks is a bit over my budget :D

We have a mix of Wustolf, Henckles and some cheaper knives. Mostly I use the Wustolf.

I guess I could learn to do it right on the wet stones using some cheap knives to start.

I think what I need is a guide to have a good foundation. That's what I do with my planes and chisels. Maybe once every year or even longer I will resurface them using a honing guide with a coarse stone and progress to the finest grit to get the angle set. Then I can hand sharpen them for a year or so no problem.

[fijichf]

I keep it simple and I use a Chef’s Choice Model 436-3...works for both carbon and stainless blades. You can find them on many websites, including eBay and Amazon.

[jtakeda]

https://youtu.be/nhRjIFwExqI

^^ I don’t know who that annoying YouTube guy is but the teaching is done by Josh at Bernal cutlery—my local knife shop—

It works pretty well and Bernal just got some house brand whetstones made for them in japan so now is a great time to buy.

I usually get them to sharpen for me because their oakland location was right by the house and the sf location was by my work but now that I’ve moved I gotta learn on my own!

[Ozz]

I keep it simple and I use a Chef’s Choice Model 436-3...works for both carbon and stainless blades. You can find them on many websites, including eBay and Amazon.
I have a Chef's Choice as well...has slots for both Euro and Japanese edges.. It seems to work OK. I use it maybe 1-2 times per year, but use a steel every time I use my knives.

[C40_guy]

Of course make sure you're not cutting on a surface not intended for cutting. Glass, Ceramic, Corian, Granite, etc.. are facepalm level choices for cutting on.

We have a decent set of knives, and every so often my wife will use one to slice garlic bread or pizza, on a metal cooking pan.

Always my favorite one, too...

I just usually run out of the room crying...

:(

[Spinner]

I keep it simple and I use a Chef’s Choice Model 436-3...works for both carbon and stainless blades. You can find them on many websites, including eBay and Amazon.

I use this same tool, but I only draw the knife through, as opposed to a pushing and pulling action.

I follow using a sharpening steel, holding the tip down on a cutting board or towel, while holding the tool perpendicular to the counter top. I then pull the knife past the steel while maintaining an equal angle of contact on both sides.

By following the above, I get excellent results, on carbon and stainless knives alike.

[Ozz]

We have a decent set of knives, and every so often my wife will use one to slice garlic bread or pizza, on a metal cooking pan.

Always my favorite one, too...

I just usually run out of the room crying...

:(
We have two sets of knives. A cheap set of serrated Henckels (think Ginsu) that go in the dishwasher (hers) and an nice set of various brands (Henckels, Shun, Kramer, etc) - mine.

She does not like handwashing knives, hence her own set.

[mtechnica]

The ken onion work sharp thing works fine. Manual sharpening sucks for kitchen knives imho

[Hardlyrob]

The cheap plastic AccuSharp works as well as anything - but is set for European bevels, not Asian. To get really sharp knives, use a stone - you learned how to do it for chisels - learn how to use it for knives - the process is the same, the cutting angle is a lot lower than chisels / planes. There are a ton of YouTube videos on how to sharpen knives on a stone. I agree with an earlier post - coarse and fine + a steel will get you where you ant to go.

You should be using a steel every day - it doesn't sharpen the knife, but takes any little waves out of the blade from use. If you use a steel, do not just grab it with your hand in a fist. Put your thumb across the top of your index finger. I learned this in a meat cutting class - if the very sharp knife comes off the bottom of the steel, and misses the tiny guard, it will cut the tendon in your thumb - sending you to emergency surgery.

Happy Cutting!

[redir]

Using the steel honing rod I hold the knife in my left hand and with the steel in my right, hand on the handle behind the guard, I hone from the handle end of the knife out to the tip. It might be a bit unorthodox but I will never cut myself that way and I can get a good edge doing it.

Tonight I'll take the knives out to the workshop for another go at the stones.

[benb]

The correct way to use a honing steel is to hold it facing downwards and rest the tip of the steel on the counter. Then hold the knife with the other hand in the normal grip.

You pass the knife downward towards the counter... the counter holds the steel at a fixed angle so you can maintain a consistent angle between the knife & steel. It's a lot harder with any technique where both pieces can move.

You'd have to have some serious clumsiness to ever cut yourself with that method.

There are a lot of good books on knife skills... it's a lot easier & safer to cut different foods if you read one of these types of books they use in culinary school.

A sharpening stone can also be fixed to a bench to prevent doing anything dangerous, then you don't need to hold it in your hand. NO different than using power tools.. either the work piece needs to be fixed in place or the tool should be fixed in place.

The book I read was by Norman Weinstein, "Mastering Knife Skills".

[hokoman]

I have a belt sharpener from Ken Onion. Worked well with my Wusthof knives, but absolutely butchered my Shun. So I recently acquired a whetstone set and will learn how to properly fix the blade to restore the knife.

You saved me... Because I have that sharpener and only tried my Wusthof knives - have not touched my Shin knives because I was chicken.

[jmoore]

Spyderco Sharpmaker is always a good choice.

I have a diamond stone that took me a while to figure out. It's a little small but does the job.

What I'd like is a set of Norton waterstones, but I can't really bring myself to plunk down the cash.

[bikinchris]

Watch this:
https://youtu.be/uEDyYJJ6f9M

[kramnnim]

I got one of these on eBay for under $200 https://wickededgeusa.com/products/wicked-edge-go/

[ibis]

I picked up one of these not long ago: https://warthogusa.com/

It's brought our knives back to life. Really easy to use as well. Good value for a novice.

[d_douglas]

Timely, as we are just teaching our kids to use knives in the kitchen. Ours are so damned dull that its more dangerous that allowing them to use sharp ones! I really need to sharpen ours (all cheap, but not garbage).

[kingpin75s]

I use a 1000 grit stone about every month or month and a half myself. Have two Shun Japanese knives and one inexpensive Henkel paring knife. The Japanese knives are a bit more work as they're a harder steel compared to the German knives.

Doesn't come out samurai master sharp but still sharp enough for easy tomato slicing.

Pretty much ^ this.

I use a 1000 grit stone for initial sharpening and then a 4000 for final honing.

As noted, make sure you adjust angle based on German or Japanese blade and know whether you have a 1 sided or 2 sided blade.

I run a combination of very hard Japanese Shun knives along with a set of Classic Wusthof.

Very sharp when finished and no destruction of the blade. I have seen too many good knife shops remove lots of blade when sharpening and will never let anyone touch my knives again.

[skiezo]

I have a wicked edge with a bunch of different grits and hones. Most of my knives are carbon steel japanese single bevels so these are simple to keep sharp. My SS one I will use the WE on a few times a year with a angle gauge. These things are awesome as I can keep the same angle or regrind to a different angle. Pretty much idiot proof and they do a great job.
A set of wet stones and a 3 grit steel hone keep everything fine.

[zmudshark]

Oh, we're gonna open this box in here?
Akin to a Covid thread.

FWIW I sharpened all my kitchen knives with an inexpensive electric from Costco. I cut my fingers every time I washed dishes for a month.

I am not a clever man.

[redir]

Pretty much ^ this.

I use a 1000 grit stone for initial sharpening and then a 4000 for final honing.

As noted, make sure you adjust angle based on German or Japanese blade and know whether you have a 1 sided or 2 sided blade.

I run a combination of very hard Japanese Shun knives along with a set of Classic Wusthof.

Very sharp when finished and no destruction of the blade. I have seen too many good knife shops remove lots of blade when sharpening and will never let anyone touch my knives again.

But how do you know what angle you are at when wetting on the stone? And more over how do you maintain that angle consistently? That's the problem I have I think. Like I said I can do planes and chisels which are one sided so it's easier and they are also straight across so it's easy to estimate the angle and hold it close. But a knife is so oddly shaped I just cannot seem to get it accurately done.

If the answer is time and practice then I get that. I didn't learn to sharpen a plane blade overnight either.

[ColonelJLloyd]

If the answer is time and practice then I get that. I didn't learn to sharpen a plane blade overnight either.

It is.

These can help until the muscle memory is there.

https://images.yswcdn.com/-6709878151531560371-ql-85/451/454/ay/chefknivestogo/angle-guides-for-sharpening-stones-8.png

[OtayBW]

But how do you know what angle you are at when wetting on the stone? And more over how do you maintain that angle consistently? That's the problem I have I think. Like I said I can do planes and chisels which are one sided so it's easier and they are also straight across so it's easy to estimate the angle and hold it close. But a knife is so oddly shaped I just cannot seem to get it accurately done.

If the answer is time and practice then I get that. I didn't learn to sharpen a plane blade overnight either.
I hone razors, but the principal should be similar in that you can always monitor the condition of the bevel through the sharpening process. By eye in reflected light, or with a hand lens. You can tell if you're honing the existing bevel, or introducing a secondary one, etc.

[Hardlyrob]

The little angle wedges work - or I was taught to use two US dimes to set the bevel for European knives when I took meat cutting in college - works for a 6 or 8" chef knife - but not for a boning knife or slicer.

After a while you get a feel for the right bevel. Just like sharpening planes with the microbevel - watch what's happening and adjust as needed.

[Tony Edwards]

I have had good success in the past with a Spyderco Sharpmaker, but honestly I just bring my Shun knives in for professional sharpening every 18 months or so, because the few bucks it costs are worth less to me than my time.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Be advised that most "professional knife sharpening places/services" use a grinder/wheel. If you have a nice knife, you don't want that.

[DRZRM]

I use a 250/1000 two sided whetstones on my counter for all my knives, finer angle Japanese knives, mostly Shun and one 10-inch Kramer/Zwilling chef knife, and also keep a couple chunky German blades for hacking through frozen stuff.

There are two accessories that I would really like to try out.

The first is this.

https://www.edgeproinc.com/Apex-Model-Edge-Pro-System-c3/

the second is this

https://www.zwilling.com/us/zwilling-sharpener--6-pc-glass-water-stone-sharpening-set-34999-403/34999-403-0.html

but at the end of the day, I just need to keep practicing rather than getting used to a crutch. I may just pick up this little guy (https://www.amazon.com/KRAMER-ZWILLING-34999-203-Sharpening-Bridge/dp/B00DVNUH6A/ref=sr_1_2?crid=10KUUVKC1WVTD&dchild=1&keywords=kramer+sharpening+kit&qid=1592416715&s=home-garden&sprefix=Krsmer+%2Cgarden%2C157&sr=1-2) to secure the stones I have already.

I also have a finer grit stone, maybe a 3000 or 5000, but I very rarely use it. I think that grit is more cosmetic than it is for sharpening.

[steveal]

I picked up one of these not long ago: https://warthogusa.com/

It's brought our knives back to life. Really easy to use as well. Good value for a novice.

Agreed!
I have a Lansky set, an Edgepro Apex, a Spyderco rod system, an electric sharpener and a workshop full of stones.

I use the Warthog. Knives are plenty sharp and because it sits on the kitchen counter (looking quite pleasant), I can touch up each knife with a few strokes whenever I use one.
Having an Edgepro down in the workshop doesn't keep kitchen knives sharp day to day.

[skiezo]

This 3 sided jewelstick is also my go to for some of my knives. I dont use the course side much but the med and fine side do a great job for touch ups.
https://www.knifecenter.com/item/HW123K/hewlett-jewelstik-professional-1-2-3-10-inch-diamond-sharpening-rod

[providence]

Surprised MZillox hasn’t made an appearance yet.

Not sure which is a bigger problem, buying high end kitchen knives or stones...

[scho74]

i grew up watching my parents use whetstones, so i started using them, and they're great. sure it takes a little longer, but honestly it's very calming, almost therapeutic!

[steveal]

i grew up watching my parents use whetstones, so i started using them, and they're great. sure it takes a little longer, but honestly it's very calming, almost therapeutic!

Knife sharpening is great as therapy.
But do you get out your whetstones every day to touch up your most used knives?
I'm sure you are skilled enough to maintain a steady angle when sharpening a bunch of knives - I'm not!

A Warthog sharpener keeps a consistent angle with no effort (unlike similar devices which vary the sharpening angle as you take the stroke).
It also sits on your kitchen counter ready for immediate action.


Does it achieve shaving sharp? No idea, my arms aren't such that this is a problem.
Paper test. Easy.


Something to consider...

[makoti]

https://youtu.be/nhRjIFwExqI

^^ I don’t know who that annoying YouTube guy is but the teaching is done by Josh at Bernal cutlery—my local knife shop—

It works pretty well and Bernal just got some house brand whetstones made for them in japan so now is a great time to buy.

I usually get them to sharpen for me because their oakland location was right by the house and the sf location was by my work but now that I’ve moved I gotta learn on my own!

Thanks for this. I bought synthetic stones a while ago, kind of figured out how to sharpen with them, and the results were ok. Watched this, followed along, and way better edges now. :beer:

[jtakeda]

Thanks for this. I bought synthetic stones a while ago, kind of figured out how to sharpen with them, and the results were ok. Watched this, followed along, and way better edges now. :beer:

Glad it helped! Right before the pandemic I knew I was going to be moving rurally and decided that I was going to sign up for one of their sharpening classes but then they all got cancelled!!

I feel like a bernal cutlery shill but they sell this chromium oxide de-burring secret goop that works super well. I actually need to pick some up next time im down there.

[choke]

I normally recommend a Spyderco Sharpmaker; it's very easy to use, offers a choice of two angles, comes with two different grit stones and it can sharpen serrated blades. They also offer additional stones for it. I think it's a really good piece of gear.

The Warthog looks interesting but IMO has some detractions:

Fixed angle, except for one model
Only comes with one grit stone, though others appear available for some models
The biggest thing that I don't like about it is that since it sharpens both sides of the blade at the same time it does not allow a burr to form. I think that forming a burr is essential to getting a really sharp knife.